My elderly mother who works at a food pantry has herself worried sick some guy got an extra turkey

[NNN0LHI]

A single guy needs a turkey? Like that was a sin. And he dressed nicely too. Another sin. He really screwed up when he told her he had another turkey at home in his freezer. She is losing sleep over this. Making herself physically sick over it. Going to the doctor every other day. She is also driving the doctor nuts. He is sending her to specialists all over town to get her out of his hair. This while the wealthy are laughing all the way to the bank stealing us blind of billions. She doesn't care or even want to hear about that. All she wants to talk about is the guy and his turkey.

See what we are up against?

Republicans know this too.

Don

[Brickbat]

1. Is she mad that he took one and didn't need one? Or that she might get in trouble because someone

who wasn't obviously destitute took a turkey on her watch?

In any case, yes, your point stands. They have us worried about crumbs while they roll around in the cake.

[NNN0LHI]

3. I think she felt he didn't deserve one because he dressed too well and was young and able bodied

Had nothing to do with her getting in trouble whatsoever.

What a mess.

A freaking turkey.

Don

[Versailles]

6. That analogy brings to mind...

visions of the French Revolution. Is that the route we're on?

Perhaps it is my literary background, but some of the similarities between Victor Hugo's descriptions of life in France during the events leading up to and including the June Rebellion in Les Miserables are quite striking. Scary actually.

[grasswire]

2. Calvinism gone wild.

It was the Calvinists who began the separating of the "worthy" poor from the "unworthy" in the dispensation of charity. It's really non-Christian in spirit, as the essence of the Gospel is *grace* -- the definition of which is "unmerited favor." Christians are to give without expectation of return, without regard to faith or situation, and are to give sacrificially.

Jesus taught that if a man asks for your coat, you give him your shirt as well. Maybe you could remind her that's what Jesus taught.

[NNN0LHI]

7. She is a devout Catholic

I have never heard the Calvinist credo before now but that is exactly the way she thinks.

Don

[jwirr]

18. Even as a Catholic she is subject to Calvin's ideas because they

are deeply rooted in out national psyche. Have you tried to tell her that the young man may be one of the many who has just lost his job. Thus his clothes are not those of the beggar? Today and in the Great Depression people stood in bread lines wearing their suits from the jobs they used to have.

[prolesunited]

28. Yep, I'm newly poor

But I still have some nice things, nothing of value, though, that I could sell on eBay or something. It's not like you can get a lot for nice, but not designer clothes or older electronics. Shit, once I started shopping resale stores, I started buying nicer brands for $2 to $5 for a shirt or sweater.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Bingo

Them poor laws are part of the American DNA...

And I might add, they're a hoot, NOT.

Alas they started before Calvin really took off...

The first official one goes to 1531, and the language could be the plank of the modern day republican party, at least the morality behind it.

[Ozymanithrax]

4. A food bank's first piority is to get food to the people who really need it...

Perhaps she is also concerned that someone who needed that turkey, a finite resource, will now do without.

[Cal Carpenter]

10. Of course it is

But many pantries have to take people's word for it that they are in need. Low-income people have enough hassles and indignities in life that most pantries don't ask for much proof of income for a food distribution.

Sure there are probably a small percentage of people that take advantage, but that is inevitable, and as the OP is pointing out, it is nothing compared to the resources being hoarded by the uber-rich and corporations (and, btw, protected by the government, unlike the needier people among us).

And what's wrong with a poor person dressing nicely? Or even driving a decent car? How destitute does someone need to be? Maybe this food assistance this man is getting is the only thing making him able to afford insurance and gas for his car, which he needs to find a job (along with clean clothes). How low must someone be before it makes sense to help them?

Who are we to judge?

This isn't all directed to you, just things that came to mind after reading your post.

I tend to think that OP's mother has more issues than this one turkey...

[Ozymanithrax]

14. If she is wroking at a food bank, her heart is in the right place...

even if it comes with issues.

I have a number of odd relatives, and it is my policy to err on the side of consideration. We don't have to automatically assume everybody else is an asshole.

And as a younger man living in poverty in the miitary, I and my wife used to find it necessary to go to food banks. People who work there in my experience are good people.

[Cal Carpenter]

17. I'm not meaning to imply she's an asshole

I hope it didn't come across that way. Just that if her reaction to this situation requires doctors and specialists that there is more going on here.

I worked at a food bank for 7 years and had contact with and visits to about 100 different pantry and meal programs. Most of them are run by volunteers with little if any paid staff and very little funding. You are right, they are generally good people.

There is a difference between the old-school and new-school mentality of food assistance programs though - this is a total generalization btw so take it with a big grain of salt - old-school is more condescending, about 'helping those who can't help themselves'. New-school is a little more likely to recognize that people need help because of systemic problems that don't reflect on them as individuals. Again, total generalization - there are many exceptions. But it's a pattern I've seen and many others in the field recognize and struggle with.

[haele]

5. Tell her he might be feeding home-bound people in his neighborhood with the turkey -

When I lived in a townhouse complex that was half section 8 (single moms, disabled, elderly), several of us used to get together and provide both christmas and thanksgiving complex potlucks for the other families that couldn't budget in a reasonably healthy holiday meal. It was pretty much unspoken that everyone understood the section 8 residents would only bring something like a can of cranberry sauce or bottle of Martinellis to "participate" in the potluck, even if they brought a whole bunch of kids and relatives.
There would be five or more turkeys and ham, lots of veggies, pies and rolls (my specialty) and most of us would provide the doggie bags so they would take home the left-overs.

Chances are, the single guy was probably helping out people he knew who might not be able to make it to the food pantry due to pride or time. Or if he was being selfish that was going to be all the meat he would be using for the next two months. It's not as if he was going to food pantries to pick up food to intentionally ensure a hungry person wouldn't benefit from it.

Haele

[RKP5637]

8. The R's figured out long ago how to reach folks like your mother with whatever form

of propaganda to push on well meaning people. Meanwhile, the D's are still standing around scratching their butts wondering WTF, at least many in leadership rolls. Our current tactic appears to be more RW trying to get the R's to like us. It's a losing strategy as we will see sadly in 2012.

[brentspeak]

9. Sign of the times: everybody not rich is at each other's throats

Just the way the ruling elite likes it.

[Cal Carpenter]

12. Yep, divide and conquer

That's how it works.

Would be nice to trade it in for some solidarity.

[livetohike]

11. I have an elderly Mom too

:hug: I know exactly what you mean.

[NNN0LHI]

15. That was nice

Thank you.

:hug:

Don

[BoneDaddy]

13. Sounds like what alot of

so many Duers wring their hands over on a daily basis.

Making themselves so upset about a turkey. It is a non issue.

[TalkingDog]

16. Um... I hate to say this, but your mom need some help.

I get it. I really do. I used to work for an arts non profit. We had scholarships for the folks who couldn't afford classes. No real requirements other than turning in the application.

Most adults played by the rules, but the kids classes had tons of applications and many times we turned people down. One day the Youth Coordinator happened to be outside when one of the scholarship moms met her on the sidewalk picking up her child.

After a brief conversation, mom and kid crawl into a full sized Hummer half parked on the sidewalk.

The Youth Coordinator was furious. I was disgusted; as were most of the staff. But what can you do? (soon after we instituted an income check) There are assholes everywhere who think they deserve more.

All that aside:

The fact that your mom is dwelling on this for so long might be a sign of some other health issues, which can affect mental states. Talk to her Doctor and explain your concerns. He might have some suggestions that don't include discussing her information directly.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. Yes, obsessiveness can be a sign of other problems

I agree with taking her in for a checkup.

[Withywindle]

25. I agree with this.

There's a bigger issue with her, and it's the degree of obsessiveness of the thoughts. Circular thoughts that you can't get past really are signs of a mental issue. They happen in younger people too. They've happened to me, which is why I'm in treatment for anxiety and depression. They happen to my father, which is why my mom and I were terrified he had Alzheimers until his doctor said no--and put him in treatment for anxiety and depression.

Really, if some guy got a turkey he didn't "need," is that really such a huge deal in the bigger picture? No. No, it really isn't, and most people would shrug and move on. If she can't, then this is a sign of a problem that needs a professional to look at. (I know. I've been there.)

This is a separate issue from the question of judging who really "deserves" help and who doesn't. She doesn't really know what's going on in this man's life, and it really CAN'T be her place to judge, because frankly, being poor is one whole long experience of humiliation and contempt and judgment and insults, and having to dredge up ALL your dirty laundry to "prove" your "worthiness."

So she gave a turkey to a guy who already had one. So what? She doesn't know how many people he fed with those turkeys or how long he had to make them last.

This is not something totally-healthy people obsess over. It just isn't.

[kickysnana]

24. Or she could be right and someone is taking advantage...

My Aunt's mother-in-law did and she had the nerve to wear her mink coat to go the free Thanksgiving turkey dinner.

You don't have to agree with her but please do acknowledge that this is emotionally distressing to her, someone who plays by the rules, then she might be able to let it go. My kids and their spouses are a lot more blaze about this kind of thing than my generation. It bugs them too but sometimes you are just outraged.

I also heard that there were not enough dinners to go around this year in some areas.

[prolesunited]

30. Is this a new mink coat? Is she making payments on it?

How old is it? What do you think she could sell it for? Does she have other winter coats?

Personally, I wouldn't wear a dead animal, but perhaps she's had it for a long time and it is one of last vestiges of her former life. She is perhaps mortified by having to go to a free Thanksgiving dinner and wore it to feel better about it.

[kickysnana]

31. She did not need the free dinner.

She had a paid for home, investments, pensions, paid health insurance Medicare and SS and a son who would make sure she had anything she needed. I don't know why she took the free dinners, I never asked her. Being seen taking the free dinners when she did not need them did not embarrass her and nobody ever suggested she was senile. She was not taking them for someone else less fortunate either. My point is that sometimes people do take advantage, sometimes they don't.

She passed on about 10 years ago.

[TalkingDog]

32. You talkin' to me?

I do agree with her. But if this is making her physically ill, then something needs to be done. Saying she has other problems in no way invalidates anything else that has been said.


Basic Logic that.

[kickysnana]

33. If it is that bad than it is more than one man, one turkey that is bothering her...

She may be in a mild depression, or have some other simmering physical illness. Or be feeling the strong ennui in our society right now.

"Something has to be done." Perhaps a couple more hugs, coffee and non-frustrated conversation. It is perfectly and safe to vent here.

You could tell her thank you from me because I have had a bad year with my Dad falling severely ill and passing and dealing with the declining health of my Aunt and declining help for my Aunt to stay in her apartment due to budget cuts so I cannot serve the many and I know so many need help right now.

(My Aunts PCAs can no longer take care of the blisters that come up on her legs due to very poor circulation and diabetes. That would cost more than $3000 a month to have a doctor and nurse tend to them when they are not infected and cause her to have to put up with multiple strangers in her home and silly trips and long waits in the doctors office.) She would rather spend her time in other ways. Her PCAs are barred from doing half the chores they were able to do for her making her dependent on family or volunteer strangers to keep her home. Nursing homes are abominable and 4 times as expensive without the new doctor/nurse required treatment included. It is nust nuts. All these things were standard until last years legislative reform. It is terrifying for disabled seniors to suddenly have no say in their own lives. The appeal system is a rubber stamp of transferring thousands back into nursing homes at great cost.)

Sorry, didn't meant to go off on a tangent. Just trying to explain the fears Seniors are experiencing this year. Taxes up, investments down and they want to cut SS and Medicare and probably will.

[TalkingDog]

35. uMMM.. again... I'm NOT the original poster... You need to direct your comments elsewhere.

[kickysnana]

36. Never mind, bad day here.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. When I volunteered in Mississippi after Katrina

it was at a Lutheran/Episcopal relief center, and on our first morning, the Episcopal priest who ran the place told us, "You can either judge people or serve them." He gave the example of a past volunteer who got upset about a woman who took "too much" from the food shelf. It turned out that she was housing 15 relatives whose homes had been destroyed.

Other reasons he mentioned for "taking more than one's share": 1. The person has no cash income (maybe worked in one of the resorts or restaurants that was destroyed) and gets a few bucks a week selling food from the food shelf. 2. The person has PTSD from the storm and doesn't feel safe unless the cupboard is full of canned food. 3. The food shelves don't have pet food, so the person might be feeding a pet.

In any case, he told us, most of the people who came to the food shelf were honest, and the occasional dishonest people were not enough to worry about.

[Phentex]

22. That's good thinking...

I can't imagine making myself sick over this.

[1776Forever]

23. Exactly and single people are not served fairly if they don't have minor children. I have a son who

developed a chronic disease and had no minor children and got no help from anyone for a long time. I wrote to the Obama Faith Based organization and told them about that and they said they would do more to help people know where to get help. I don't know if they did or not but they give out Billions to "help" disabled and needy. Maybe that is all the single guy had - 2 turkeys! The guys Mom should be happy to have been able to make sure this guy didn't go hungry in my mind. Isn't it pitiful that some people can worry about 2 turkeys when others turn their backs on the needy!

[grasswire]

21. we spend more on keeping help from the "unworthy" than giving help...

...where it is needed. Think of the massive bureaucracies that have been established to keep unworthy people from getting help, or more than their share of help. Government bureaucracies, non-profits, churches -- all of them with MASSIVE overhead costs aimed to make the needy jump hurdles to prove their need.

Also considerable impediment is the fact that most private charities and churches now refer the needy to government programs. The face of the poor is seen less and less; charity becomes impersonal.

[Canuckistanian]

27. Envy - one of the "seven deadly sins"

Can you not convince her of the warnings in the Bible?

[some guy]

29. I'm sorry she's worried for nothing.

I didn't get an extra turkey. I don't even eat turkey.

[cbdo2007]

34. She doesn't know his full story. She is making too many assumptions here to really

come to any conclusions.

Maybe him and his wife are foster parents and they have 5 foster kids to take care of. Then, they found out a family at their church can't afford Thanksgiving this year, so he invited them over to his house and wasn't expecting to be serving that many people.