At this point let the damn tax cut ENTIRE program expire

[LynneSin]

I mean sure I'll get a hit but it won't be as horrible as the wealthy.

Clearly the republicans are going to have a hissy fit unless we take care of their wealthy benefactors. So at this point let's just let these tax cuts go away forever and ever amen.

I'm tired of this argument coming up every 6 months. Let them expire.

[VMI Dem]

1. It will be bad for middle class families with children.

But who cares.

[rfranklin]

2. I am willing to sacrifice to reverse the Republican juggernaut...

because the economy will not improve as long as they keep funneling more and more money to the top 1 percent.

[FSogol]

3. Would it really affect anyone until tax time?

[Wounded Bear]

39. Yes....withholding from paychecks would increase.

:shrug:

I say let it happen.

[LynneSin]

5. It's going to be worse if we have to keep funding these tax cuts for the wealthy

we can't afford them.

[slackmaster]

7. How are the tax cuts for the wealthy hurting you, personally?

Feel free not to answer if it's too personal of a question. I'm genuinely curious.

[lumpy]

10. Some of us are more concerned with the national debt. It hurts

to see this country in an economic mess. It is called patriotism when people are more concerned about US welfare than personal well being. Most patriotic people are willing to do with less in the name of Democracy.

[LynneSin]

13. What he said

I never said middle class shouldn't have tax cuts. Start a new round of tax cuts instead of extending the broken old ones.

[LiberalLoner]

23. This - also, the rich having so much money fuels speculative bubbles which mean

we all end up paying WAY more for housing, WAY more for commodities like food and gasoline...

I say bring the top tier tax level back to 90%. Tax the damn rich before they kill us all with their greed.

[slackmaster]

37. That's a large leap of logic for you to conclude that I'm not concerned with the national debt

Maybe we should stop spending so much money prosecuting futile wars.

[Recursion]

32. By sending trillions to Chindia as investment in their industrial base...

...which then competes against me.

[slackmaster]

41. And raising taxes on some people would automatically fix that?

I don't follow your logic.

[Recursion]

47. The increase in foreign investments since EGTRAA...

...pretty much exactly matches the amount of projected revenue foregone by EGTRAA.

That is, when we stopped taxing them, they took their money too greener pa$ture$.

So, yes, taxing them again would hamper that capital flight. Probably.

[Hugabear]

50. Really? You're going to pull out such a blatant right-wing argument?

I would think this would be so blatantly obvious that anyone who's not a knuckle-dragging teabagger could see it. If we're going to have any chance of reducing the deficit, we need to raise revenue and cut spending. We need to do both. By caving in to the rethugs and cutting taxes on the wealthy, we'll all eventually wind up having to pay more. Not only that, but cutting taxes doesn't create jobs. I guess a good question would be why do you seem to favor tax cuts for the rich?

[slackmaster]

52. Apparently Hugabear doesn't know the difference between making an argument and asking a question

My question was directed at one specific person. If you want to chime in with a rational, reasonable answer I'm OK with that, but I must insist that it be done without impugning my motivation for asking.

The whole point of this discussion is that the OP favors a scorched-Earth approach, in which all of the tax cuts, including those on the middle class and the working poor, are allowed to expire; as opposed to keeping them all in place including those for the wealthy.

I'd be personally harmed by about $200 per month in the former scenario. The latter wouldn't have any effect on me, at least in the short term. Eventually all tax cuts have to be paid for somehow. It seems the OP is OK with dropping the burden all on the middle class.

[slackmaster]

6. It would be bad for productive, working middle-class divorced empty-nesters like me, too

But indeed, nobody cares.

[taught_me_patience]

9. When push comes to shove

people will abandon priciples if it affects their pocketbook.

[ProudDad]

29. $12 per month is too much to pay

to pay down the middle class' investment in the wars of Empire?

[Yupster]

51. Let them expire

When Bush cut them no one noticed any difference, except millionaires and they didn't even notice probably.

So ler them expire. No one will notice the difference and the budget can use the extra money.

Remember when they were passed? What was it, $ 5 a month to the average worker, and $ 25,000 to the average rich guy.

Let them expire.

[slackmaster]

4. I find it odd how many DUers are willing to take pain if wealthy people get hit harder

It doesn't bother me much that wealthy people don't pay higher taxes than they do. I don't feel that I'd benefit in any way if taxes on the rich were raised sky-high.

The only result I can see coming from that is the behemoth of government having more money to screw me over with.

[leftstreet]

15. Maybe people are already in pain

The Predator Class luvz getting us to turn on each other when we're in pain. If people are starting to turn against those at the top of the ladder - good

[jberryhill]

16. Pain? My god a return to the Dickensian 1990's. The horror!

[patrice]

21. Huh? It's not a desire to hit wealthy people harder. It's a desire to do what's functional, i.e. pay

for what it costs a lot of systems to make "wealth"/business possible.

So, doing good business screws you over? Or do you just plan to build all of those highways and sewers and schools and police forces and . . . ~ all by yourself?

[slackmaster]

38. Spending hundreds of billions of dollars prosecuting futile wars screws me over

Handing a pile of money to government doesn't automatically ensure that it gets spent wisely.

[patrice]

45. Well then, you're like me. I don't understand why "Pro-Lifers" get to object so effectively to tax

dollars spent on something to which they have a "conscientious objection" and I don't.

[Recursion]

33. The story would be different if the rich had been a little less active at fucking us over

Or even just a little more discreet about it.

The more money they have is the more money they can use to screw things up again, and probably worse next time. Not to mention it's more money they will send to China to invest in factories that undercut me.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. "It doesn't bother me much that wealthy people don't pay higher taxes than they do."

Gee, really?

In other news, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia doesn't like pork.

[slackmaster]

40. It troubles me a little, but not as much as a lot of other things do

In other news, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia doesn't like pork.

It figures a commie pinko dirtbag would respond to a sincere, honest question with a back-handed personal attack.

[lumpy]

8. I am with you, Lynne. Doubtful middle class benefits are that

impressive at any rate. We should be willing to do almost anything to prevent the wealthy from sucking more out of this economy.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

11. taking money out of the pockets of everyone who pays

federal taxes in the middle of a deep recession will be disastrous for the economy and even more disastrous for Dems in the next election. if you think that won't make a HUGE difference in this country you are delusional...

sP

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Owl]

14. I agree, let them all expire if that's the alternative.

[vssmith]

17. Americans love strong presidents

Let them expire before you cave--be STRONG.

[Joanne98]

18. I agree! I'm tired of being blackmailed!

[patrice]

19. It wouldn't matter to the un-employed.

[pansypoo53219]

20. that is better than the rich getting

ANOTHER FUCKING DOLLAR.

[patrice]

22. It's also better for the Deficit. nt

[patrice]

24. I thought Obama was wrong-headed about this from the first time I heard it. It's as though he

mistakes who we are as being like the rich, but we're not. I and many like me do not mind paying my own way, as long as I get what I want out of it and what I want is an END to these wars, Universal comprehensive health care, sane national "defense" policies/budgets, appropriate life-long education for everyone, and the right to organize to protect social and economic justice.

[librechik]

25. yes, but that too won't allow for work on DADT, Dream, or UI.

It's the same insulting and useless Republ;icans and their endless tricks to shut down progress.

[onpatrol98]

26. hmm....

Shouldn't these be important enough for democrats to stand alone? Why tag it onto something else anyway? If they really believed in these, they would be willing to bring them to the floor without them being add-ons to something else.

[Recursion]

34. Because they can count

http://www.senate.gov/reference/reference_index_subjects/Rules_and_Procedure_vrd.htm

[librechik]

44. the pukkkes have declared they will do nothing till tax problem is resolved.

If we just wait for the expiration, this will not mean they will come to the table while we are all waiting and work on the other items. They will shut everything down.

However, I believe this was the plan all along. What's the difference? They want to spoil our record for the next election.Easy for them to do by just obstructing. And saying no to the Dems only embellishes the record for the GOP.

This is bad for the country. We used to be E Pluribus Unum. Now it's if we don't get what we want, we will make sure nobody gets anything they want. How is that good for America?

[FiveGoodMen]

27. +1

[ProudDad]

28. You're right! $12 per month more for median income...

Folks (about $54,000 per year)...

$300,000 more taxes for the rich fucks to pay...

Damn good deal!

[sabrina 1]

30. I agree, let this bill expire and then introduce a new, Democratic

bill at the same time cutting taxes for the working class. Make that bill a huge issue separate from the issue of the cuts for the wealthy.

Democrats should state clearly that Republicans want tax cuts for the wealthy, but not for the working class. A simple message.

Challenge them to vote for the Middle Class tax cuts every, single day. Make the voters regret their votes. It may be that everyone's taxes will go up for a year, but coming up to the next election, with the billionaire tax cuts gone, the only issue will be 'Republicans hate the middle class'.

Not to mention how much money will be saved to go towards the deficit from the higher taxes on the wealthy.

I just wish that for once Democrats would call their bluff, but it's always the same story, Republicans throw a temper tantrum, and Democrats run around trying to figure out how to pacify them. Just tell them to STFU for once and start working for the people.

[LynneSin]

31. I like that

:D

[AnArmyVeteran]

35. Obama + Bush Tax Cut Extension = Toast

Turn out the lights, the party is over. If democrats and Obama cave AGAIN the democratic party will collapse. The base will flee by the millions.

[last_texas_dem]

42. If Repugs were actually serious about deficit spending, they'd let this happen,

but I think we all know just how serious the Repugs are about deficits...

[mstinamotorcity]

43. Let them all

expire!!!Yes a lot of people will feel it, but not as much as them.

[Dr.Phool]

46. Let it expire, and tell the people EVERY DAY, the repukes did it.

They were holding your tax cuts hostage for Rush Limbaugh, Donald Trump, Bill Gates and Paris Hilton.

[Left coast liberal]

48. I am with you!

[mmonk]

49. That is what I prefer.

Stifle the Republican tax cut Santa Claus and fix this country.