Raising retirement age to 69 is cruel and stupid

[Bragi]

Seriously, I'm 60 years old and I have the good fortune to be semi-retired now. I could retire completely, but choose not to because I enjoy working half-throttle in my professional area. (I write and do public policy consulting work.)

However, there is no way whatsoever that I can imagine working in my profession until I'm 69. I'm in good health, but I just don't have the energy levels needed to perform at anything close to a full-time level' let along"compete" with people 20 and 30 years younger.

I'm also (and here's a dark secret) not as good at what I do as I used to be. Sure, I can offer some wisdom and a lot of experience, but when it comes to doing gritty research and analytical thinking, and writing it all up, I'm nowhere near as proficient as I used to be.

How do I know that? I know because we recently downsized and I had to sift through and discard boxes and boxes of work material. What shocked me when I read my earlier work was how much sharper and more thorough I was 10-15 years ago than I am now.

I'm Canadian, but lots of people here think, like many Americans, that because older people are now in better health, (I'm glad for that) that people can therefore work clear through at full speed until they are 69, after which they will qualify for social security.

Well that won't happen. What will happen is that older people will just fade away before they get any SS benefits, which is really the idea behind these cuts.

Seriously, young people should not allow this cutback in SS to occur. This is something worth taking to the streets on. If you don't stop this cruel move, you will seriously regret it when you get older and have to drag your sorry ass into a workplace where you cannot function well, let alone compete with people 30 years younger, who should have the jobs anyway.

best regards to all

[somone]

1. Yes, it is utterly cruel

and unworthy of a first-world nation

[Ginto]

2. We really need to look at lowering it by at least a decade and a half.

It truly is ridiculous.

[Bragi]

7. My personal view is that you're correct

What would make sense would be a gradual wind-down of active work starting about 55, where you could get partial SS benefits, and ending at 65, when the full benefit kicks in.

That way older workers could gradually move towards retirement. As an older person, I think this gradual wind-down is what our minds and bodies want us to do.

[Ginto]

11. Going by your plan.

I'd say start it at 50. Let the young do the work.

[Bragi]

18. No objection from me

Maybe I was just trying to be fiscally prudent so as to attract bipartisan support.

:sarcasm:

[Ginto]

20. Haha.

A true bridge builder.

[awoke_in_2003]

95. and it might help many...

transition into full retirement. How many people die soon after retiring, simply because their whole life has been work and they have nothing to take up their time?

[dotymed]

142. 65 is not feasible for most Americans.

Perhaps if we had the evil "Socialized Medicine."
Honestly, we are ranked 38 in the world for health care.
SS has become a carrot that is constantly dangled, but usually only the people who are healthy enough (insured) usually live long enough to collect the meager benefits.
Many 1st world countries (with better health care) make benefits available to their citizens starting in their 50's. It opens up jobs for younger people and allows older people to enjoy some level of enjoyment in their twilight years.
Hopefully, one day, these will be viewed as the "dark ages" and people will come before profits.
In an "unfettered capitalistic society" like ours has become, cruelty is the norm, not the exception.
It will take a revolution in our thought processes for this to happen. I hope it happens soon, but we all know it won't.

[Sherman A1]

122. I would go with 55

with 65 for full retirement to kick in. I would also include a provision for community service (for those able) to be included with the early retirement package. Think of all the good that could do if an early retiree (and I am in that age group) would be required to do maybe 20 hours a month (the numbers could be worked out). The schools that would have after school volunteers, the museums with extra volunteer staff, the homes for the elderly with more volunteer help, the meals on wheels programs with more staff, the parks with the same. It would not only enrich our society by filling or providing these work hours but put these early retirees in a position to do something good for their local area and perhaps meet new folks, learn new things.

It would open up jobs for the younger folks who desperately need them, increase recreation spending (by the retirees) thereby creating more jobs in related sectors.

[Enthusiast]

127. Damn Sherman

can we vote for you somehow? 'Enrich our society'. No kidding. If there is anything everyone could agree with it is that this society is in need of some enrichment.

[Sherman A1]

163. Appreciate the kind words

but, my very brief stint in government (3 months on my local Parks & Rec Advisory Board) taught me that it's not for me, I no longer have the patience for the level of infighting over trivial matters or to be told that my city of 50K populations was "too big" for an after school game program. So I won't be running for anything.

Yes, we need enrichment and I had hoped that we just might see something of leadership in that direction from DC after the 2008 election, but I have not.

I just think we are so greatly misdirected and missing such great opportunities to work to a common good benefiting "We The People" that it is depressing. Reducing the retirement age and utilizing the services of able early retirees to benefit local communities simply makes sense to me. I think of it as a "Surge" Plan to fix both the economy (at least a bit) and to help our communities. There are so many things that could be done, but sadly never will be.....

[tclambert]

128. But Harvard researchers found a way to reverse aging in mice.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/12/1/aging-depinho-mice-according/

Researchers at Harvard Medical School have reversed the aging process in mice and hope to apply this research to combat the symptoms of human aging.

The scientists, working at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, had expected to simply stabilize the aging process.

“Instead, we witnessed a dramatic reversal in the signs and symptoms of aging,” said the study’s senior author, Medical School Professor Ronald A. DePinho.


Of course, only the wealthiest mice can afford the treatment. Working class mice will still die at the normal age, which Republicans hope will be before the mice qualify for Social Security or Medicare. Republicans just hate working class mice.

[GreenPartyVoter]

153. Agreed

[social_critic]

174. We can't afford it

besides, the old geezers would get bored.

[shraby]

3. Those who work at physical labor are in even worse shape

as their bodies after age 60 start to fail in one way or another, physically and mentally. That's the age bracket that many cases of demetia or alzheimers begins also. Some of the "senior moments" are more serious. Physical strength begins to wane so the work they are doing is even more challenging with every year that goes by. It's cruel and inhumane to require people to work much past the age of 60 unless they want to and feel capable..and sometimes they feel capable but if you ask the co-workers, you would get a much different answer. Even in sedentary jobs like John McCain as Senator has, he's been slipping a lot lately and should be retired out, but he'd never admit to it.

[csziggy]

88. Yes. I ran a farm and the physical wear and tear is brutal

I am 58 and can barely walk around the house. I've had cartilage taken out of both knees and it's just a matter of time before I get knee replacement. Both shoulders have had surgery. My back is a mess. The arthritis in my hands has made it so I cannot get a good grip and have no strength left in my hands. In the last ten years I've had numerous surgeries and I no longer recover from the surgery to the same extent I did with the first one.

I thought about starting a second career, but jobs for someone my age are pretty much non-existent. Given my physical limitations, I am pretty much unemployable. I can do internet research, but have not found any way to make it pay.

Good thing I sent hubby out to get an outside job ten years ago - his health insurance is the only reason we could pay for my surgeries. Before that, we could not get health insurance at any cost. Even so, the out of pocket costs have gone up & up & up. I am not sure how I will be able to afford my end of the knee replacement surgery.

[truedelphi]

121. Try and give up commercial grain. No wheat.

Only short grain organic rice. Or try organic millet and oats, and amaranth.

When we make cookies or cakes, we use two thirds rice flour to one third tapioca flour and boy are those treats delectable.

Our household gave up wheat last year. Yesterday, we went out and indulged in hamburger with bun, and this morning I woke up with arthritis in places where I didn't even think one could have arthritis.

I lost five pounds over night when I gave up wheat. Almost none of the wheat in the stores is organic - and the wheat is mostly molds like fusarium and/or aflatoxin containing these days.

Things I miss most - cinnamon, butter and sugar on toast, especially on a cold winter morning.

So now we have cinnamon, butter and sugar on a baked apple. Even better than toast.

It is a most amazing remedy to stall off "old age."

it takes about six or seven days before you feel the results. But if you have a pantry with the alternatives, you will really start living your life again.

[fasttense]

143. I think I would rather give up meat, then bread.

I can't imagine life filled with the constant denying of the urge to bite into a warm crusty slice of sourdough bread. It's sounds like pure hell to give up the staff of life.

[csziggy]

159. That will not prevent the arthritis pain of bone on bone contact

Where there is no cartilage or bone sheath left in my joints. It will not prevent pain and inflammation from my long history of various injuries to bone, muscle and soft tissue. It would take pages to list all the injuries I have had - I am not the most coordination human and until I was unable I tried to lead a very active life.

Regimens to change diet might reduce some of the inflammation, but they will not stop it. I am worse when the weather and barometric pressure changes or when I get chilled. Or when I try to walk much - the inflammation in my knees seems to aggravate or activate inflammation in my other joints.

I actually have been cutting back on wheat, though my hubby insists on sandwiches for his lunch and I make bread for him once or twice a week. I use organic flour from the local food coop and have been making bread with a mix of whole wheat, spelt, barley, rye, oat and other flours. Since hubby wants a lighter bread, I do use wheat and/or gluten to assist the rise. For the type of bread he likes, I doubt I can go to a completely non-wheat or gluten-free recipe.

But I no longer eat bread regularly - maybe a slice for toast when I try a new recipe, but not daily. Usually we have brown rice - organic, from the food coop - or quinoa, barley, or potatoes. Both of us have gotten so we are not that fond of pasta, so we don't eat it regularly. We're eating more vegetables than we used to, less meat. While not all the vegies are organic (because of cost and availability since the food coop is not convenient for regular shopping), an increasing amount are.

[truedelphi]

161. No, giving up wheat cannot undo the damage

that has already been done. But it can stop more from occurring.

And in my case, I was eating wheat pretty much along the same lines of behavior you are. A slice of bread here, a muffin there, a brownie for dessert. Maybe 15% as much of the wheat my spouse eats.

It was only when I gave it all up that I reduced most senior moments to a once a week experience. Arthritis gone, and no pain except the medium pain residual from auto accident incurred in ate seventies. (Still pop an occassional vicodeine for that.)

Again see if you can try it for a week. If you ever do it, you'll never go back.

(Perhaps my favorite side effect - no more continual food cravings. Appetite control is back in place - I am no longer constantly hungry.)

[csziggy]

166. I've gone without wheat for weeks on end with no difference

Last fall when I had oral surgery and could eat nothing solid for two weeks. But then, that may not be a fair test since the pain from the surgery kept me aching.

January, hubby has to get oral surgery so I won't have to make bread for a couple of weeks. And while I eat cold cereal in the summer that could contain wheat, during the winter I eat oatmeal so it is easier to avoid it.

I'll give it another try and see if it helps!

[truedelphi]

168. I apologize for being such an overbearing zealot.

But it helped me so much, and I'd love it if you could get your pain and arthritis cut back significantly.

And let me know should you try it but find you need tips on how to be able to bake and what not - we have a bunch of great recipes for many common items, all of which are gluten free.

[csziggy]

169. That is OK - I understand where you are coming from

And I need to do something. The pain level is really high these days and it has seriously limited my ability to do what I want.

Thanks! :hi:

[Enthusiast]

129. I can relate.

At 58 it is a challenge for me to even sit at this computer. After a period of time the pain will force me return to bed. I am dead serious.

And that knee replacement? Several people I know have contracted mersa after a knee replacement. I wonder if surgery is worth the risk. I know of one person that got infection after open heart surgery and another got infection after neck surgery. I have putting off surgery because I fear another infection - I've already had to overcome one.

I hope you can find some relief. I wish you good luck with your health issues.

[csziggy]

160. I know what you mean, though when I am in pain I need the distraction

Sometimes the only way I can sleep is to have the TV on - often I will fall asleep quickly with it on, while if I try to sleep without it, I just lie there in pain.

For years I had a recurrent infection that we thought was an antibiotic resistant bacteria. Recently, a new doctor recognized it as a herpes infection, so the fear of a MERSA type infection was alleviated, but I still keep up with the information about MERSA.

I just cannot stand not being able to move around. This week with the first major cold front of the winter, I can barely walk around the house. I used to hike all over our 60 acres and I miss that. Before I get surgery, I will check out the hospital and doctor, though we have an excellent orthopedic center here. Doctors from the same group have rebuilt my left shoulder, operated on both knees, and repaired my right shoulder, all in their outpatient surgery center with no complications. Because of the FSU football team, we have a much better orthopedic facility than a town of this size would normally support.

I don't think they do the knee replacements at the outpatient facility, but if they will do it at the local hospital I prefer (where I had a different major surgery and spent three days in recovery), I have confidence in that facility and their staff.

[FarCenter]

4. I don't think that they expect people to work in the same job to 69

After about 55 you switch to WalMart greeter or MacDonalds janitor.

[JDPriestly]

99. The Walmart greeter jobs are in short supply, and older people are

usually are not physically fit enough to work as janitors.

[Enthusiast]

130. They had better build more

Walmarts and McDonalds then.

[TBF]

5. It should be lowered to 60 - maybe even 55.

There are not enough jobs for kids starting out.

[SoCalNative]

8. I vote for lowering it to 48

I'm tired of working (been at it since 15) and would like to retire next year.

:rofl:

[Ginto]

13. And what's so funny about that?

48 would be a fine place to start. It would ensure that there are jobs for those just getting out of school.

[Maru Kitteh]

110. You probably think 48 is old, don't you.

Just because you went to school doesn't mean anyone owes you a job - and if you want people to retire at 48 to make way for you, I do hope you are willing to generously fund those retirements in your weekly paycheck.

[Ginto]

164. 48 is not far away for me.

I would be very willing to fund retirements generously. Bolivia is going in the right direction.

[AngryAmish]

15. 43 for me

I started work at 12. True story.

[laughingliberal]

92. Nope. Mr. LL's been working since 10 and is 63 now. Course he's made of stronger stuff & has always.

cared about those older and sicker.

[rhett o rick]

75. Arent you mature? nm

[liberation]

82. Wow, can I get your autograph...

... you must be the only person who has ever worked hard in like the history of the world and stuff.

We're not worthy...

[laughingliberal]

91. Yeah. My husband went to work at 10 to help feed his family and apprenticed in his current trade...

from the age of 15. He's 63 now.

Wimp!

[geckosfeet]

135. Agreed 100%. With full health care benefits through a public service.

[dkf]

151. Move it to 40 please. And triple social security while you are at it.

Oh and can i have a free house? Or st least a 70% housing subsidy. And of course i need full medical benefits

Thanks all!

[femrap]

6. I believe their intent is

to be cruel and stupid. The US is bordering on becoming a 3rd World Nation...and that is their intent. TPTB are a sadistic bunch. They like watching people suffer. Take for example, the past administration. They enjoyed destroying entire nations, killing innocent people...it's sadism. And they get off on it.

[area51]

46. +1

They hope to kill off people so they'll never get to collect SS.

[femrap]

71. Yep!

And take our last dollar before the insurance company shoves us out in the streets to die.

I don't recognize my country.

[glitch]

63. Agreed. And gleefully insulting us while doing the injury.

"greediest generation" broke the ironimeter.

[rhett o rick]

78. I disagree. Although some like Cheeney may get off on hurting people, most are sociopaths.

The just think it is their destiny to survive and flurry, will the rest of us can just die. It's not personal, they dint want us to die, just dint care if we do.

[laughingliberal]

90. Sociopaths get off on hurting people. Remember, they're the ones who pull legs off bugs as children.

Or put firecrackers up frogs' butts and blow them up (Bush)

[awoke_in_2003]

96. China and India...

are the "up and coming" economies- they will bleed us dry then move over there. The rich always seem to come out okay (because you can't just string them up, can you? :evilgrin:)

[Kalyke]

113. No... can't string 'em up, but it might be lucrative soon to learn

how to rope up a guillotine.

:hi:

[Enthusiast]

131. Their cruelty is almost....

Nazi-like. Suspiciously so.

[femrap]

154. That's

a good analogy. The elderly, the poor, the working poor, the migrant workers....they're made to be seen as 'not human.'

Yes...damn, I'm going to go :hide:

I fear what Kasich has in mind for us besides no railroad.

[bullwinkle428]

9. Durbin, who is allegedly on "our" side, was trying to make the

whole "it's not so bad" argument on this, by saying the increases in retirement age are really just gradual!

Way to miss the point completely, Dick.

[TBF]

16. Dick Durbin's personal profile:

While he's not as rich as some, he's doing ok for himself. Probably not as worried about retirement as some of us:

#
Net Worth: From $258,038 to $1,700,998
Rank: 72nd in Senate
#
Assets: 40 totaling $608,038 to $1,851,000
#
Liabilities: 2 totaling $150,002 to $350,000
#
Transactions: 15 totaling $29,015 to $260,000
#
Agreements: 0
#
Compensation: 0
#
Income: 2 totaling $261,114

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/CIDsummary.php?CID=n00004981&year=2009

[sarcasmo]

59. I could help out so many of my friends if I made 261, 114 dollars a year.

[awoke_in_2003]

97. but you are not an asshole...

Durbin and his elite buddies are.

[sad sally]

83. Yeah, what a great plan to make young people really hate old people.

[MadHound]

10. For those doing physcial labor, it's even worse

I've done fairly physical work for the majority of my adult life. I started noticing that my body wasn't bouncing back as well in my early forties, and recognizing the inevitable I decided to go back to college and get a teaching degree so that I can finish out my work life doing more with my brain than my body.

Many working folks don't have that option, so they keep pushing themselves and pushing themselves, and they truly pay the price, backs destroyed, joints shot, etc. etc. Most can barely make it to retirement age as it is now. Raise that retirement age and these folks who do the physical labor, they'll be like old plowhorses, dying in the traces, worked to death.

[Bragi]

17. I agree

I feel most compassion for aging people who do physical work. I can't imagine not just how awful it would be to be them. And how awful it would be to have to watch Congress add 5 years to their life sentence, with no appeal.

[LibDemAlways]

22. I'm 58 and a substitute teacher. Normally I am assigned to

middle or high school classrooms where the teacher usually has some sort of break during the day. Yesterday I was an aide in a kindergarten. By the end of 4 hours continuously on my feet, I was ready to collapse. Definitely not as spry as I used to be.

Just curious. Are you now employed as a teacher? In my local district, only the very young get what few fulltime jobs become available. The subs are all oldsters like me.

[MadHound]

30. No, not employed, not even as a sub,

When I went back to school four years ago, they were begging for teachers around here. But the combination of the economy turning south, and the war on public education meant that teaching jobs dried up. I was practically hired for a middle school Social Studies job at the end of my student teaching last fall. A spot was opening up in the spring(the teacher was moving elsewhere), the principal, my cooperating teacher and department head all loved me and the work I did. But the budget crunch hit, no money came through from the feds (until far too late, in Sept.), and rather than filling that position, the school board decided to pack those extra 120 kids onto the backs of the two other teachers left.

I've applied for teaching jobs within a thirty mile radius. My resume is good, great GPA, member of AX, KDP, and PAT honor societies, great references, certified to teach from K-12 (though really want to teach secondary history), but nothing. Dropped off app after app, and the school official says "sorry, we're not hiring." And since the market is so glutted with laid off teachers, getting a sub job for a new teacher out of college is virtually impossible around here. I know how to get a job, how to present my self, get myself noticed, but I'm getting absolutely no nibbles.

Same thing is happening with other professional, non-teaching jobs I'm applying for. Tons of applicants, so the employer can pick and choose. I graduated last May and have been hitting the pavement ever since, but have yet to go to a single interview. At best I get polite rejection letters. It's depressing. Hell, I've even applied back into the old fields that I used to work in, and now apparently I'm overqualified. I'm lucky, my wife has a great job and can support us, but our lives are on hold. Remodeling projects are put off, as are vacations and anything that isn't strictly a necessity. Our vehicles are twelve years old, and starting to reach the age where they would be worth less than a major repair, yet I can't foresee purchasing a new one anytime in the near future.

So I work around our place here, a twenty acre orchard (one that I started five years ago so that we would have a supplemental retirement fund in our old age, I figured out long ago that I would see little or nothing of the SS funds I paid in). I look for work, walk the dogs, work the land, and write. At this point I'm thinking that it is my writing that is going to make me money. Who knows, here in a year or two I might actually have a book for sale, we'll have to see how the vagaries of the publishing world treat me.

I'll see what happens when teacher hiring/firing season begins in earnest again next spring, but given our economy I'm not optimistic. I know of a couple of teachers in the area who are retiring, so there's some hope there, but in reality school districts are still just as pinched now as they were last year, and that's not going to ease up anytime soon. I'm thinking of doing what other recent college grads are doing, fleeing into graduate programs, be a TA, get a small stipend and my classes paid for. We'll see, I won't cross that bridge until early next summer.

Sorry for the lengthy reply, thanks for listening.

[Bragi]

31. Thanks for telling us your story

My best wishes to you, your writing, and your orchard.

- B

[Dorian Gray]

33. My husband is a teacher

at a Catholic School in NYC, and they hired ONE person in the last two years. That person filled in for a woman on maternity leave. This is a job that just five years ago had a high turnover rate. At least four teachers would leave each year. Now, everyone is afraid of losing their jobs and benefits, so they're sticking to it. It sucks for recent grads in the education field, and I hope that things turn around quickly.

[MadHound]

38. I went to the MOJOE job fair last spring,

It is the education job fair for the state of Missouri. All the districts are usually there, and apparently a lot of grads got interviews, even job offers on the spot there.

I went, along with over five hundred other graduating seniors last March. It was depressing as hell. Out of the hundreds of school districts in the state, hardly any were hiring, and those that were hiring were only doing so in specialized fields like Special Ed, etc. Many districts didn't even show up, since they had no job vacancies, and the vast majority were simply there to build up their districts resume selection, but not to hire, since they didn't have any positions open either. The only district that was hiring across the board was Wichita KA. No offense to those who live in Wichita, but I'm at the age and stage of my life that I can't simply up and move to another state.

Nobody, absolutely nobody is hiring teachers in this country. The stimulus money that kept education afloat and viable in 2009 disappeared in 2010. The only money available during the hiring/firing season for teaching came from the RTTT program, which I see as basically extortion on the part of the Obama administration, ie we'll give you the money you need and in exchange you agree to blow up your state's education system. No thanks. It was only after it was too late that the administration finally came off a modicum of education funding this past September, too little, too late.

[LibDemAlways]

67. Years ago I taught in a Catholic school. The turnover rate was

incredible - some years more than half the faculty would leave for greener pastures. When people want to hang on to those low pay jobs, it's a sure sign the economy is in the toilet.

[Enthusiast]

134. Good luck with the book....nt

[riderinthestorm]

27. That's me. I'm a farmer and at 50, I live on Aleve.

When I contemplate doing this kind of manual labor for another 19 years, I shudder. It starts as soon as my feet hit the floor in the morning with my ankles protesting at 6 am. And by 6 pm, I'm exhausted in every part of my body. And I have a pretty significant (and amazing) staff that helps me if I can't get everything done - I just get someone else to finish a task. What if you don't have any kind of "back up" help if you're having a bad day? If you're the janitor, there's nobody else whose going to get those tasks done - it's you, or you're out of a job.

[MadHound]

39. I hear you,

I have twenty acres of fruit orchard. Nothing terribly serious, but it will be a nice supplement to my income when I'm "retired". I'm used to physical work, but my past sins are catching up with me. My knees kill me when the weather changes, my back aches, etc. I live on aspirin, and I would hate to have to be working a full size corn or cattle operation at my age. Good luck to you, and don't beat yourself into the ground.

[riderinthestorm]

74. 40 horses at my place, breeding, selling, boarding, training and competing.

It would qualify as a fairly large livestock operation on it's own but we also maintain a small organic vegetable operation on 5 acres that produces food for my sisters catering business, the local green market, my own clients and ourselves. Backbreaking work all of it.

I tried to get a desk type job 2 years ago to try to diversify our income (I have an MBA from the University of Chicago plus of course my two decades of experience running our own small business). I worked hard at sending out apps and resumes for a solid year. Of course the economy is crap and my older age at that time (high forties) worked against me so nothing came of it. I'm resigned to doing this for as long as I can since I don't see what else I'm going to get at this point. I consider myself lucky to have a stable (heh), income producing business that has weathered the current economic crisis so well. Many, many others aren't so fortunate. So I grit my teeth, swallow more aleve and get out there.

Anyway, great thread and now I'm off for evening chores.

[Enthusiast]

133. That's what I told my wife

just yesterday. They want us to die in the traces. People simply do not understand that not so long ago, before the New Deal, that is the way things were.

[phantom power]

12. Not the kind of difficult truth we're into dealing with anymore.

I've also been pondering (darkly) that I'm not quite as sharp at 41 as I was at 25. For damn sure not as energetic. Guess I'd better buckle up, I've got another 30 years to beat off the youngsters.

:rofl:

[LibDemAlways]

14. How is someone who is laid off at 59 or 60

with little or no retirement benefits supposed to find another job and keep working at all? What is that person expected to do for the next nine or ten years?

It sounds as though the rich guys who make the rules want to drag this country back to the days when seniors were dependent on the goodwill of younger family members. I am old enough to remember how my grandmother lived a few weeks at a time in the houses of each of her adult children so as not to become too much of a burden on any one. If she had no family, she'd have been out in the street. Is that really what Americans want?

The catfood commission members are so far removed from the reality of people's lives, it's unbelievable.

[somone]

19. They know all that, but they truly don't care

Obama should bear full responsibility for creating this monster.

[shanti]

29. what about

the seniors with NO family, no children, etc. what are THEY supposed to do? (rhetorical question, i know the answer). :(

[avaistheone1]

44. In my neck of the woods Silicon Valley they start laying off people at age 40 to 45.

Then it's two or three decades before Social Security kicks in. What are people to do?

[liberation]

85. Pull themselves by their own bootstraps, obviously!

It builds character...

The funny thing about working in Sily Valley, is that I always thought technology was supposed to make our lives easier and allow us to reduce our workloads. Instead I am working harder and longer hours than my parents ever did (and they had to work damn hard most of their lives), working on systems which are ever more complex and sadly more pointless... We're now developing technology for technology's sake, with absolutely no game plan other than arbitrary deadlines and random market directions.

The sad realization is that most of the stuff I work for is geared towards making "games" more realistic, so that some zit-riddled asshole kid can yell obscenities to some other kid in real time as they battle each other on line. So I went through all the trouble to get a PhD in engineering, and are we as a species working on colonizing space, solving world hunger and housing issues, beating disease? Hell no, we're simply making games and letting everybody else know what a bad attitude the barista at Starbucks had this morning. Because that is apparently where the awesome wisdom of the market told us to go.

[awoke_in_2003]

101. have you looked into...

flight simulation? I have been in it for 12 years, and we are ALWAYS hungry for good engineering talent. Not much difference between a flight simulator and a video game, when you get right down to it.

[liberation]

119. I am in microelectronics...

I have some friends who work at Ames and they do some real cool stuff, I did work at JPL. Alas, the perennial budget cuts make career stability almost an impossibility over there :-( Reading some of the comments of some people who perennially defecate on NASA and have no clue how much people have to get done with so little, breaks my heart really... ... obviously I am oversimplifying, but the reality of what is driving the state of the art in this industry is basically videogames and very aggressive data mining and communications for "agilizing" business transactions.

In the end it becomes just too hard to ignore the obvious: there is no long term plan or any resemblance of a game plan.

[awoke_in_2003]

100. "expected to do for the next nine or ten years?"

they want you (and many like you) to just die.

[Countdown_3_2_1]

21. Congress will need a companion Anti-age Discrimination Bill

Seriously. Deteriorating health affects the workplace, and who will want to hire a 66 year old looking for work?

No mater how you look at it, this just doesn't work.

[Bragi]

24. I suspect that wouldn't work

Employers could easily disqualify older workers not because of their age, but because they can't do the work.

As in: "All applicants will be required to demonstrate physical ability to carry 35 50-pound boxes up 7 flights of stairs."

[LibDemAlways]

25. There is age discrimination legislation already on

the books. It is totally ignored by employers and not seriously enforced by anybody.

[Enthusiast]

136. Plus one. It is totally ignored. nt

[Retrograde]

65. But they'll just look around at themselves and say

"There are a lot of people in Congress - especially in the Senate - in their sixties and older who are still working. Look at Thurmond, and Byrd, who worked til they dropped. And McCain and Boxer and Inoyue and all those septagenarians, and up, who still put in a full session's worth of work. If we can do it, so can the average Joe or Jane." Of course, they don't stop to think that they are in a nearly unique situation, and that they have aides and staffers to do a lot of the grunt work.

This is another example of Congress cocooned in their own little world with no clue as to how people who aren't lobbyists have to get by these days.

[awoke_in_2003]

102. the thing is...

you can always come up with an excuse for not hiring someone. It is against the law to discriminate for age or racial reasons, but it happens anyway.

[rocktivity]

23. It's also absolutely unecessary since SS can be made permanently solvent

by eliminating the salary cap.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[enough]

26. Bragi, this in a remarkably honest post. You bring up an issue I have thought about

with regard to politicians who stay in office well into their 70's and 80's. Our nation suffers from the ego and entrenched power of people who insist on thinking they can do a massively high-powered job extremely well even in old age.

Of course there are a few mighty exceptions -- people who maintain their powers undiminished deep into old age, but these are few and far between. Mostly, people are deluded about this, and people in high places who are surrounded by sycophants and entrenched power structures are even more deluded.

This doesn't mean that old people don't have great skills, intelligence, and wisdom. But we don't have the same type of ability and energy that we had when we were younger.

Speaking from the perspective of 66 years old.

[Bragi]

28. I totally agree

I can attend meetings, offer advice based on years of experience, wear a nice suit with cuff links, and bring elderly gravitas to the discussion, but I sure as hell can't do the research and analysis needed to make decisions. Nor do I have the energetic creativity I had years ago.

I think one of the problems leading to delusions about aging may be that there are now advocacy groups for us oldsters who keep preaching that, with better health, and longer lifespans for some, we can all work longer and compete with younger people.

This is mostly wrong. Not only that, but these upbeat assessments may be inadvertently just helping those who want to raise the SS retirement age.

[lumberjack_jeff]

36. Knowledge and judgment are acquired with age.

Energy, memory and quick analytic skill... perhaps not.

I've worked with enough dot-com collapses to realize that good judgment is underrated, and "energy" overrated by the business world.

[Bragi]

69. Yeah, but they're the ones writing the cheques

Especially if government vacates the space for the 65-69 year time span. If that happens, how much of the SS recipient load will die during the 4-5 years when they otherwise would be getting SS?

And given that SS simply isn't in any danger of collapse, what exactly is driving this campaign to kill off a bunch of potential SS recipients through extended labour.

I know, I know, some readers are saying to themselves: just say it -- class warfare.

My response to that is that if this is class warfare, then it is demonstrably stupid class warfare. When you concurrently have young people without work, and old people being worked to death, you have a system that achieves no-one's goals. This meets the definition of stupid.

[guitar man]

32. If they raise it to 69

I want my money back, all of it. That's not what I signed up for when I started paying FICA over 30 years ago. Give me all my damn money back and I'll decide how to invest it for my retirement! :grr:

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. Imagine if your professional area was hanging sheetrock. n/t

[Bragi]

35. Hurts to even imagine it /nt

[inna]

37. oh, nothing "stupid" about it. class warfare in action, baby.

[Contrary1]

40. They are hoping you don't live to be 69, let alone still be working...

Otherwise, it is just postponing the inevitable another 5 years.

[galileoreloaded]

41. Sometimes im glad im 35, never even though of retirement as an option, and

have learned to basically stretch the ethical boundaries both professionally and personally in order to stay alive and healthy (physically and mentally).

Some shit to be proud of eh?

What do you think I am going to teach my 4 year old?

[Ginto]

42. What ethical boundaries are you stretching?

Like lifting wallets off marks?

[galileoreloaded]

48. If you can't relate, it would be hard to understand.

But lets just say that the face of business has probably changed quite dramatically in the last 20 years. I wouldn't know, but can tell you that the last 10 have been a brutal adjustment. You are groomed to see human resources as an expendable commodity in the world of quarterly bonuses.

The object of business today is to put your competitor out of it, or collude to carefully manage market share, and people tend to get really creative.

At the corporate level, is a sickness of excess.

It's a boomers world, I'm just living in it.

[Ginto]

49. You could always choose to be honest and good to people.

Seems antiquated, but some of us still actually do that.

[laughingliberal]

43. K & R nt

[AlinPA]

45. Not defending it, but it is not until 2075. nt

[Hannah Bell]

117. it gradually increases through the whole timeframe. it's already 67.

which is cruel enough.

[treestar]

47. I thought age brought wisdom?

Other than in purely physical jobs, what is this bullshit that we aren't as good as we get older. In fact we are the ones that teach the younger generation! This is sixties youth culture taken to extreme. Maybe aging baby boomers now feel guilty over trashing their elders so consistently in the 60s and 70s.

Any work involving the mind - the older person will be better at it. I know I have less energy than at 25, but it's to the good, since I don't energetically do a lot of useless crap. Why do people who do exceedingly well in life never retire and still write/act/sit on the Supreme court well into their 70s or even 80s?

I watched some of my retired elders and would not dream of quitting work - whether it be for money or volunteering. I'd hate to sit there amusing myself all day.

[WinkyDink]

50. Well, bully for you. But try grading a million papers weekly instead of doing anything else.

[treestar]

53. Any age one can not like their job

I don't even think you've responded to my point. My point is we should not go along with this concept we are worth less and can do less as we are older!

[WinkyDink]

81. YOU are missing the point. It's not about "age-ism," it's about FORCING people, men, women, to work

BEYOND WHAT THEY MUST NOW, for full benefits.

If you want to advocate for ALLOWING workers to stay on the job beyond 65, THAST is quite a different argument.

[laughingliberal]

157. Of course it is. And the oligarchs love it! nt

[Daphne08]

125. Bingo!

[MadHound]

56. Well glad that works well for you, but that's only for you

However the medical evidence shows that not only do people's bodies deteriorate as they age, but their brains as well. Some folks deteriorate at a quicker rate than others. While your brain may be just fine at sixty, sixty five, five of your neighbors brains are in the process of turning into grey much.

Not to mention, as you said, you don't have the same sort of energy when you're older as when you're younger. Thinking, the very process of thought, burns energy. As you get older it takes more energy to think and you can't sustain things like attention and concentration because you run out of energy quicker.

Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of workers aren't trained, and can't successfully engage in work involving the mind. You can't expect people who have been miners, factory workers, sales clerks, etc. to suddenly turn it on when they're sixty and be the wise elders, it just isn't possible.

Sad, but not unexpected, that you're slyly advocating for people to work until they die.

[awoke_in_2003]

106. not unexpected at all. nt

[ProudDad]

61. You're obviously under 60

Energy levels undergo a steep decline after about 55 years of age...

I plan on being active, working the mind, playing music, organizing etc. until I drop...

But a fucking "JOB" -- no way, Jose -- I don't have the stamina for it...

(plus I'm opposed to making profits for some fat fuck corporation any more)


This whole thing is about REMOVING OPTIONS from older folk...

It's NOT about whether one can work a full time job until 69 (as if anyone could get HIRED for most jobs at 68 or 69) it's about having the option to have a roof over one's head and food on the table if one CAN'T WORK PAST 62 or so...

[liberation]

86. Age also brings diminished physical strength, reduced mobility, reduced concentration...

... reduced endurance and increased health risks due to stress.

Alas I sort of understand how spewing talking points could be a fairly easy task regardless of age and mental ability...

[WorseBeforeBetter]

87. Obligatory '60s bashing. How original.

And comparing a small group of Supreme Court justices to millions of "average" working Americans is idiotic.

Do you un-energetically do a lot of useless crap? I hope wisdom catches up to you. It's a big world and only an incurious mind would view retirement as sitting around finding ways to amuse oneself, particularly if one is in sound health.

[awoke_in_2003]

107. "I hope wisdom catches up to you"

if it does, she will be too busy waving pom poms to notice.

[QC]

132. +1000000000000000000

[awoke_in_2003]

105. god forbid...

we allow seniors to make the choice to continue working, or maybe do something like explore the world, seek out new experiences, or just enjoy their hobby more often. Fucking old slackers need to get back to work.

[liberation]

123. Obviously the only goal of some humans and their lives is to simply be working bees.

Luckily we are now living longer, as we were told so positively down thread, so we should rejoyce because we now have the privilege of being working bees for even longer! I can't cherish my lucky stars enough! As I was stressing out about the possibility that I would not work as much as I really wanted during my time on this earth. You know, the atoms which make my own self aware ass had to travel untold distances through billions of years and go through god knows how many iterations so that they could make me, a being whose only purpose is to work real hard to make another person real hard. "Just for that, that long ass trip through time and space was was worth it!" My atoms keep telling me....

Could you imagine spending those extra years of life expectancy actually enjoying life? That would surely suck. And you know how they say that idle hands are the devil's playground. I am glad that I will have the privilege to keep Satan at bay... because luckily for me, as an American working bee my productivity will be expected to increase significantly while my earning power will remain either frozen or severely diminished depending where inflation takes us. So I will have to figure out how to live having to work more for less money, which will surelly take care of any free time which may have provided Satan with some opportunity to tarnish my moral character.

This is all positives people!

[awoke_in_2003]

162. We are so selfish...

to want to enjoy our final years on earth. A bunch of frigging slackers :)

[Hannah Bell]

118. ,

[AngryOldDem]

144. News flash: Some people JUST. GET. TIRED.

That in no way lessens their concept of self-worth and productivity.

[donco6]

145. Why not 100?

Why retire at all? :sarcasm:

I thought I'd seen everything. Yes, let's give up our opportunity to retire so the rich can have a tax cut and live like a retiree ALL THEIR LIVES. They'll always have us proles out there to do the "work."

You amaze me.

[laughingliberal]

156. Here's a thought. I'm an RN-55. Average age of retirement for nurses is 57.

Very high level of retirements due to disability. Years of high stress-physical, emotional, mental wears us down. Ability to concentrate deteriorates, short term memory loss accelerates. Most have back problems and other stress induced illnesses.

How 'bout this-next time you're in the hospital, critically ill, how 'bout you let 'em know to give me a call and I'll rush right in to oversee your care. Should work great for you. After all, no reason I shouldn't be doing this until I'm 69, or 79 or even 90, huh?

[inna]

171. WOW. just WOW. (and I mean it, lol)

:wow:

[Vinca]

51. Considering the number of unemployed we have now, I don't

know where they expect older people to get jobs. It's idiotic.

[awoke_in_2003]

109. they don't...

they expect them to die. Grayson had it right (even though he was speaking of health care at the time).

[KamaAina]

52. Retirees are living about as long as they did in the '30s

when SS was created. The substantial gains in life expectancy since that time are largely the result of many fewer children dying, especially from communicable disease.

Thetrefore, raising the retirement age is a crock of crap.

[Uncle Joe]

54. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Bragi.

[mentalsolstice]

55. K&R nt

[katty]

57. stupid, and it might as well be 90

[sarcasmo]

58. Working until 69 is cruel, stupid and in many cases not even possible.

[felix_numinous]

60. Too many people are struggling with health issues

in their 50s (I'm one of them), and cannot find work. But we 're supposed to be happy with our crumbs--for another 19 years?

[awoke_in_2003]

111. my wife is a case in point...

she has neuropathy, rheumatoid arthritis, sjordrens syndrome, and a few other things. Most mornings I have to pull her out of bed. She is constantly in pain. Yet SSD thinks she is capable of working full time. She is 51, has busted her ass her entire life, and worked two jobs for most of it. Yet, she does not qualify as being disabled. She has paid into the system, and the system is giving her a big red white and blue dick up the ass.

[dembotoz]

62. my father worked in a factory and retired on his 65th birthday

I can not imagine him working til 69

no way
no how

would have killed him

[eilen]

73. My Dad was a Financial Planner and did taxes after

he "retired" at 62 to keep up with expenses. He had a history of coronary heart disease and had stents place a few times. He could not take long walks anymore due to intermittent claudification in his legs (pain d/t poor circulation) He died at 69 with lung cancer. The last year of his life he became increasingly confused to the point of not knowing who or where he was in the last month.

I think the state made out good on his social security.

My Mom has COPD and has been unable to work since she was in her late 50's. She had no health insurance so could not get the medical documentation in order to quailify for SSDI. So she quietly suffered and went to the clinic when things got too bad until she turned 65 and was able to have Medicare. I don't know if she would be as bad as she is now if she had proper medical intervention earlier. She was a mortgage loan officer back before the bubble. Her specialty was getting good fixed rate FHA loans for new home buyers.

My husband is an electrician, my brother a carpenter, I am a nurse. I don't think we will be able to work until 69 years old; we will be lucky to make it to 60.

[awoke_in_2003]

112. "I am a nurse"...

my father was too, until he got "lucky" and got a job selling monitoring equipment at the age of 58. The years of nursing beat the holy hell out of his back (but of course, you know that). He was laid off at 62 and spent 3 years looking for another job before he had to break down and file for (reduced) social security. He took care of people his whole life- he comforted people and eased their pain, and the system took a piss down his back. I feel for you and all who are in the field- when you can do it no longer, you will be tossed on the trash heap.

[ProudDad]

64. Age discrimination and work related injuries

made it IMPOSSIBLE for me to practice my profession after I hit 60...

And I can't make a living at anything else...

So, thank goodness, SS checks started at age 62...

Keeps me housed, fed and alive at a decent subsistence level since my lifestyle is relatively simple...

If I had had to wait until age 69, I probably wouldn't have made it...

But, just like the republicrat/democan health care plan for us poor folk (Die Quickly), the retirement plan is essentially the same...

[Blue_In_AK]

66. If there aren't enough jobs now to go around,

where do they think all these older folks are going to be employed? I kind of feel like I did the younger people a favor by taking early social security.

Not to mention the fact that older people just aren't capable of doing some jobs such as construction or other physical labor. I doubt if I could even be as effective as a legal secretary as I used to be because I find myself making more typos now, and my eyes aren't what they used to be, so proofreading suffers.

[Raschel]

68. It's cruel all right. We don't have jobs like congressmen do, where we only show up part of the year

sit on our butts, have great pensions, health care, and perks like cars, expenses etc.

Seriously, the disparity between the govt and citizens needs to be addressed. It's reminding me of the Soviet Union.

[pitohui]

70. the world will have changed, human lifespans will have changed in 2070

i am not terribly concerned about raising the retirement age to -- how shocking! -- age 69 in the year of our lord 2070

with medical advances being what they are, most people (barring accident) will be living to age 100 by then


at the turn of the century, around 1900, a woman of 30 was old, and i mean OLD, as in having difficulty living thru childbirth, her body thick and full of aches, her teeth falling out

we have really changed that much and we will continue to change

if they were saying "let's raise the age of retirement to age 69 in a few year's time," fine, we would ALL be out in the streets, but that's not what they're talking about

they're talking about raising the age for someone who is FOUR YEARS OLD TODAY, who is likely to be healthier at age 70 than you and i are now at 50

it is not cruel, it is just practical acknowledgement that we have a lot of money and talent working on fighting the health problems that make people get old too soon

when i was a child, a woman my age was OLD, ugly, and utterly undesirable, even as late as the 1990s erica jong wrote a book called "fear of fifty" that acknowledged that a woman of fifty was expected to be OLD, ugly, and utterly undesirable

now it is expected, barring serious health/accident issues, that a woman of 50 is in the prime of life and ready to roar...

the world does change, the world does improve, and as a practical matter i find it VERY difficult to believe a woman of 69 in 2070 will be a poor, broke-down, worn-out, incapable of working ball of aches and pains

we are going to fix this, maybe not in time for you and me, but surely in time for our grand children & great grand children

everything we've seen abt medical science tells me that our age 69 won't be THEIR age 69, a 69 year old then will i think be like a healthy 40 yr old today

[Caretha]

138. With your powers of prophecy

you will be winning the lottery next week, right?

[Cleita]

72. It's also unnecessary because Social Security is

neither broke nor has anything to do with the deficit.

[bdamomma]

149. exactly.

[rhett o rick]

76. Some idiots even here think that the age under discussion it the age one will have to work until.

Many will not have jobs until age 69. They will be "retired" (verb) because of age discrimination or health. The age change will only be when they can get benefits, which arent enough to retire on any-fucking-way.

[RegieRocker]

77. Most republicans want to see

social security go away so you can work forever.

[Swamp Rat]

79. It should be lowered to 60.

[McCamy Taylor]

80. Especially since people with medical problems will have no insurance and will die

before they ever get a chance to collect on their SS.

[laughingliberal]

93. I believe that's the plan. nt

[bdamomma]

150. yup, that could be the plan, I don't put anything past those elected officials.

[Javaman]

84. After all, we are a cruel and stupid society. nt

[bdamomma]

152. that is their perception of some of us, but not all of us are stupid/

ignorant.

[Javaman]

155. True, but for the moment, sutpid appears to rule. nt

[donco6]

89. You're absolutely right.

But everyone seems utterly resigned to it. Some here even telling Nancy Pelosi to shut the hell up about it.

[awoke_in_2003]

94. I will die on the job...

I have little doubt about that. Their will be no retirement available to me. SS will be gone, and 401k's are tied to Wall Street- you have better odds in Vegas.

[JDPriestly]

98. Bragi, at 67, I know what you mean. I just get tired faster.

I don't move as fast. Twenty years ago, the pace was slower. Employers did not demand such intensity in the workplace, such speed. And I was faster. I would love to be working, but employers don't even think about hiring people my age. If I did not have Social Security, i would just have nothing. Most people my age are in the same situation. And remember banks and investments are not providing income like they used to. The money you saved doesn't provide an income.

[djp2]

103. Good luck finding a job that will keep you

until you are 69. If you lose a job after 60 you're done, no one will touch you. Then what do you do?

[JDPriestly]

104. Here is what they should do:

1) require employers to pay overtime to hourly employees after 35 hours per week
2) eliminate the category of "salaried" employees. Everyone should be paid at an hourly rate.

That would decrease unemployment and make it easier for older people to work longer. Employers would have less incentive to wear their employees out.

Oh, yes. And both employees and employers should be required to give two weeks notice if not more before ending the employment relationship. Further, unless insolvent, employers should be required to pay their employees a month's salary when they lay them off. That would discourage the trend toward short-term employment.

[Kalyke]

108. What's even more cruel is to still have the mental abilities you

always had, but not have the strength to produce because of HFCS-caused diabetes, or work-family-doing-it-all physical stress or no money to take a vacation... and on and on and on.

As the only child or an aging Mom, who watches my children and can't always and I feel bad to take so much time working from home but always get things done because we can't really afford institutional day care that I... sigh... wish we were either very rich or very poor and thank you for your comments and wish more people your age thought like you.

But, my Middle Class bones are damn tired.

[farmboxer]

114. Billionaire suffer more than the poor/middleclass.........

they need a few extra mansions, etc., if they do not get more and more money they will suffer greatly. The poor have everything, they can eat out of trash cans and live in a cardboard box. The middle class can start working 18 hours per day 7 days per week like the good old days. Don't forget, the rich need child labor again too.

[leftcoastie]

115. Serfing

We are nothing but serfs in the cogs of industry. And we are in plentiful supply, so when you or I die, there's many more to replace us. Life is meaningless to industry, only money matters.

[Hannah Bell]

116. kr

[hfojvt]

120. that does not fit my experience

You think old people cannot compete with younger people? That may be true when my generation gets old, but it hasn't been true of the older people I worked with. First, the fastest drill press operator I ever saw was a 52 year old woman. I was 31 and I could not keep up with her.

Of course that does not mean she would still be a dynamo 16 years later.

I worked as a temp at a food factory in Iowa from 1998 - 2001, off and on. There were three old guys there who regularly worked harder than their co-workers in their 20s and 30s. Pottsie was already collecting social security, but the $1,000 a month was not enough for him and his wife, although it was about the same money that I made at $7.25 an hour after taxes. Ralph was not an awesome worker, but he worked at least as hard as the younger people. Zaphod, on the other hand, was an impressive worker, and something like six years older than Pottsie. He was what I would consider rich. He owned a couple of 10 unit apartment buildings. I think that is more of a motivator though. When you know that you don't really HAVE to work, then work feels like less of a trap, a burden, a hardship. So he had a much better attitude about it.

Audie was also an impressive worker, although I was not on his shift for very long. I don't know much about him except that he was a WWII vet.

Those old guys were working 12 hour night shifts at that plant, and they seemed to have something that the younger people working there lacked - a work ethic. Perhaps the younger people could have out-worked the geezers - I think I did, but for the most part my younger co-workers simply didn't outwork them.

[WinkyDink]

139. Wouldn't it be nice if geezers had a choice?

[Hubert Flottz]

124. Not if...You'got yours!

[Enthusiast]

126. K&R Cruel, stupid and

short sighted. Keeping the elderly in the work place on denies a younger worker a position.

The worst part of all is the legislators that favor these cuts in the U.S. are the very ones that spent the SS surplus in unnecessary wars of choice and tax cuts for the wealthy.

Every single day we hear the Catfood Commission tells an interviewer on TV that social security is the main cause of the deficit. This is a lie perpetrated by the corporate media. Eventually our population will come to believe that the elderly and baby boomers are nothing more than greedy leaches, while nothing could be further from the truth.

[Locrian]

137. work? at what? seriously.....

work? at what? seriously.....

what jobs are there going to be? manual labor? "service" jobs? wtf?
does anyone think a company won't find a way to drum out the old (expensive) and replace with cheaper employees?

[jumptheshadow]

140. I just decided on my retirement date yesterday

August 1, 2015 is my goal. I hope I make it.

Being older in the work force is a mixed experience for me.

On the one hand, my analytical skills remain good and my years of experience help my company avoid mistakes.

And while management hires a lot of attractive 25- to 35-year-olds for client interaction positions, I personally believe that quite a few customers feel good about your company when they see a bright, kind and competent older person. It makes our customers feel there is depth to our company.

I learned computer, software and Internet skills in my 40s and continue to keep up with the breakneck pace of technology.

However, my energy levels have definitely gone down in the past two years. I did a trade show recently, with its long hours of schmoozing, and slept for nearly 24 hours when I got home. I am lucky enough to work out of home frequently. The two to three hours of commutes a day just drain me.

I used to be an "iron woman," coming into work when I was sick. That doesn't happen anymore.

I can't imagine having to work for another 10 years until I get Social Security benefits. I wouldn't make it.

I plan to do volunteer work after my retirement, but it has to be on my own terms.

To all of you who are under 40: I never thought I would retire. My career models were the people who were still working in their 80s. But there comes a time when both your body and your mind tell you to slow down. Please advocate for senior issues and sock some money away if you can. You will be doing yourselves a big favor. As hard as it is to imagine, you will be in my position one day.

[spicegal]

141. To raise the retirement age in this country, we'd have to be

far healthier, and do away with jobs involving manual labor. We'd truly have to invent a "fountain of youth". It's an absurd cruel idea, that will once again punish the working class who do physical labor and don't make enough money to put away in more lucrative retirement accounts. Even people who do more sedentary work aren't as well equipped to handle the mental challenges of a full job, particularly one that's stressful. What we'll end up with is more people on disability. Not to mention the fact that people need to retire to open up more jobs, or the fact that people in their middle ages are less marketable and more likely to lose their jobs.

[Pacifist Patriot]

146. K & R

[fascisthunter]

147. upperclass sociopaths

[Overseas]

148. K&R ! //nt

[Mimosa]

158. K&R great OP. n/t

[B Calm]

165. SS has nothing to do with the debt. In fact it's running over 2 trillion dollar surplus!

[DainBramaged]

167. Don't any of you understand the truth behind this?

The more people they work to death, the less they have to pay out in benefits of ALL kinds......

It's so plain I don't know why it isn't brought up. I'm nearly 60, and I CANNOT do hard physical labor any longer, but luckily I have a third career in IT. How many people with broken bodies can even work to 63?

[FooshIt]

170. I'd like to see it lowered significantly

Why work your whole life?

[Stardust]

172. As I near that magical Social-Security-eiligbile age, I dread the thought of having

to work one minute longer. I'm tired. The idea that Social Security may not be there for me is something I never even considered a possibility until recently. Now I feel very naive.

Why, oh why is eliminating the cap on SS such a fucking sacred cow?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

173. You guys must not be rich, because raising the retirement age will only...

...affect the middle and lower classes.

[social_critic]

175. I'm not rich

But I wouldn't mind getting my check when it's due. They've already ripped me off for it.