Man rapes toddler in store aisle, bystanders nab him

[Liberal_in_LA]

Sex offender accused of raping girl, 2, in store
Henry K. Lee, Chronicle Staff Writer

San Francisco Chronicle December 2, 2010

(12-02) 13:56 PST UNION CITY -- A convicted sex offender has been arrested for allegedly raping a 2-year-old girl in a Union City store, police said today.

Eugene Melendres Ramos, 36, of Union City was chased outside the Dollar Tree store at 1720 Decoto Road and tackled by witnesses who held him down until officers arrived at about 1 p.m. Wednesday, said police Lt. Kelly Musgrove.

"This guy was out looking to satisfy his sick desires," Musgrove said.

Ramos attacked a 7-year-old child in Hayward in 2003 and was convicted of assault with intent to commit rape, sodomy or oral copulation, authorities said. Jail records show he is unemployed.

The 2-year-old victim in Wednesday's incident had been shopping with her aunt and grandmother, police said. The adults briefly became separated from the girl, and Ramos grabbed her, Musgrove said.

The girl's grandmother turned into an aisle and found the girl "pinned down by the suspect," Musgrove said. Ramos had removed the girl's pants and diaper and was sexually assaulting her, the lieutenant said.

Ramos ran, with the grandmother and aunt in pursuit, police said. Demario Hawkins, who was soliciting donations outside the store for a nonprofit that helps homeless people, and another man, Sammy Johnson, also gave chase, police said. The men tackled him.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/12/02/BAAR1GL0VH.DTL#ixzz170XtraNU

[flvegan]

1. I hope that by "nab" and "tackled" they also meant "pounded face into pavement"

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. one of the guys who caught him might be homeless, another homeless hero.

[Subdivisions]

5. +1. n/t

[XemaSab]

10. Word

What the fuck is wrong with people? x(

[Liberal_in_LA]

14. on closer read of article. 2 year became separated from family. Watch your kids closely

folks.

[Alcibiades]

170. There's no reason to assume this would ever happen

I'm hypervigilant regarding my kids, including my own two year old girl. There are a lot of dangers that are more likely than this.

This could happen to anyone.

[Dorian Gray]

37. Seriously

what he did was sick and depraved. Poor baby girl.

[ZombieHorde]

55. Raping toddlers is over the top, I would not expect the people who caught him to

show much restraint.

[flvegan]

62. I have to admit, I'm not a violent person

but were I a "tackler" I'd have lost my shit completely on this guy. I'd just have to hope the jury got to hear the WHY I did it at my trial.

[ZombieHorde]

65. "I'd just have to hope the jury got to hear the WHY I did it at my trial."

Very few people would want to convict you if you got a fair trial.

[MissDeeds]

106. Same here

He would be without his 'mister happy' if I got to him. He had "removed her pants and DIAPER". Yes, I would have gone medieval on him.

Poor baby. This worthless creep has no soul.

[Dorian Gray]

141. Reading that he removed

her diaper really drove the horror of this home for me, as well.

[Gormy Cuss]

162. They didn't know what had happened when they chased him --- one thought it was a purse-snatching

It was only later that they found out what had happened.

[ZombieHorde]

182. I admit, that does change things. nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. I'll be honest, if I'd happened upon that scenario I'm not sure I could

have kept myself from pulverizing the guy.

That poor, poor baby! :cry:

[RainDog]

13. I would have killed him without remorse

I would have no qualms about kicking him in the head until his brains fell out.

That's what he deserved.

[Frank Booth]

19. And if I were on the jury, I'd gladly find you innocent.

Some people either need to be locked up for life or put to death. This creep never should have been allowed to roam the streets.

[RainDog]

26. I'm not considered a violent person

I'm just a mom - I like to read and listen to music - I live a pretty quiet life...

However, I found out, when I was mugged, that I fight back. When adrenaline kicks in, people defend themselves (or those they care about.)

Anyone who has ever been abused, however, also knows what it's like to reach that point when you simply cannot take any more and, when you cannot take anymore done to those who are powerless.

If I saw a man raping a toddler, I would kill him if I had the opportunity. That's just all there is to it.

[OneGrassRoot]

35. You're right...

something kicks in. You may be the same in that it's like a blind rage comes over me when it comes to innocents are being harmed. I almost got arrested for freaking out on a guy with a dog leashed in the back of his truck, when the baby fell over the side and was dangling there, and as a child, after a bully threw a rock and hit another kid, I chased her INTO her home and pinned her against the wall.

I really do fly into a blind rage.

The Dollar Tree animal would have been in a serious world of hurt.

And I'm essentially a nonviolent person as well, but when innocents are concerned and they're being harmed, no doubt I'll become violent.

[RainDog]

40. maybe we could become vigilantes in our spare time..

:hug:

I know exactly what you're talking about.

The flip side, of course, is if you're being abused you can become passive - it's healthy when you reach a point at which it seems as tho your very life is at stake if you don't stand up to abusers. And you do.

[OneGrassRoot]

43. We could...

:hug:

[OneGrassRoot]

29. Me, too. I'd have zero qualms about ripping his face off...

and his dick.

[RainDog]

31. word

actually, I would most likely take a concrete block and bash his head in. I wouldn't want to touch him if I could avoid it.

[Sonoman]

41. That just another reason I always..

carry knife and sidearm.

I would have used my knife.

Sonoman

[awoke_in_2003]

77. Same here...

.45 ACP to the head. What will happen to this man? Go to jail for a bit, be released, and do it again.

[krispos42]

87. Empty the magazine, then begin beating the corpse with the pistol

Beside making really, really, really sure that he's dead, it will really prove your emotional state to a jury.




Of course, you could argue legally that you were using appropriate force (with the first shot) to prevent a felon from escaping, and everything after that was simply abusing a corpse.

[Maine-ah]

82. agreed. Jesus fucking christ.

[H2O Man]

149. My first six years

in "human services" were spent dealing with child neglect and abuse. There were many, many instances where I could understand a parent either not having parenting skills, or the self-discipline needed to be a decent parent. But there were a few cases -- a couple with a parent, but more with a member of the extended family or from the neighborhood -- where it would eat away at me. There was one violent sexual predator in particular that I think of when I read the OP. He was not having the legal consequences he deserved, because he was a stool pigeon. And there were nights when I'd wake up from a dream about what he actually did to innocent little children, and I hated. I do not like to hate. I recall thinking that this guy was a vicious rabid dog, and thinking about the best treatment for such a risk to an unsuspecting public.

[BoneDaddy]

169. Can I hold him down for ya?

Agreed. If that was my daughter, that would have been the course of action

[Odin2005]

86. I would have his brains oozing out of his skull!

[Dark]

97. People like this deserve the cruelest punishment imaginable.

Make him Chimpy or Cheney's butler

/innocent until proven guilty,
//Still, this is some FUCKED UP SHIT.

[deutsey]

127. I have a blackbelt in karate

We're taught to refrain from using the martial arts to harm someone unless there is no other option.

In this situation, I would have had no other option.

[KittyLover]

4. How disgusting!!

Some people are so sick, I don't even wanna think about it. I watch that TCAP sometimes on MSNBC, and am absolutelky revolted by what I see.

[Liberal_in_LA]

8. what is 'TCAP'? on edit... "To catch a predator"

[KittyLover]

30. Yep.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluetrain]

7. WHAT?! What the fuck is wrong with people?!

[peacebird]

9. how twisted does one have to be to find a TODDLER in diapers sexually attractive?

and ACT on it?

just totally incomprehensible to me....

[Liberal_in_LA]

11. and a 7 year old in 2003

[KamaAina]

180. Sen. David Vitter could not be reached for comment

:evilgrin:

[TwilightGardener]

12. Just sick.

[Cali_Democrat]

15. WTF!!!

[MadMaddie]

16. What the F&*&&%$k

Why was he out of jail on the first attack?

There is no cure for this sickness other than isolation from the public for the rest of his life.

Unbelievable!

[awoke_in_2003]

79. No, there is another cure...

it involves an entry wound into the head.

[Desertrose]

184. I was thinking removal of parts farther down .nt

[derby378]

17. There's nothing quite like the laughter of a two-year-old girl...

...who looks at you and recognizes you, but also finds you quite funny for reasons unknown to you.

This happy memory is helping blot out what would otherwise be a sickening mental image of the crime decribed in the OP. I hope you don't mind.

[virgogal]

18. Words fail me. eom

[Motown_Johnny]

20. this is the kind of story that keeps me "pro death penalty"

I'm sorry, it seems that I am not "evolved" (as another thread suggests).

I know I will be flamed for this

I will even admit that I deserve it, but in full honesty my gut reaction to this story is that he needs to be removed from society in a permanent way with no hope of ever returning. If I could be convinced that he could be institutionalized for the rest of his life with no hope of release or escape I could be persuaded to settle for that, but not easily. I honestly don't care if it is a prison or a hospital. My main concern is the future victims and removing the possibility of there ever being another one.


I know it is wrong, but my way may save one or more children from future assaults from this _______ (fill in the blank yourself, I don't have the words)



Feel free to follow this story and watch him be out on the streets again in a matter of a few years. Maybe by then this child will be 7 years old, more in line with his previous preferences.

[RainDog]

34. I'm not pro death penalty

but I'm not against killing someone for raping a child. I consider that justifiable homicide.

[Motown_Johnny]

52. .

to me that sounds hypocritical


You would consider vigilante justice justifiable homicide but allowing someone to a trial by jury where his/her rights are all protected is not a viable path to ending a life?


This baffles me.

[ZombieHorde]

57. "You would consider vigilante justice justifiable homicide..."

"You would consider vigilante justice justifiable homicide but allowing someone to a trial by jury where his/her rights are all protected is not a viable path to ending a life?"

The vigilantes would be justified because they have witnessed something so horrible, the court is not justified because they have not witnessed the crime and the rapist is already in custody.

[Motown_Johnny]

71. so it is O.K. to kill someone if you see them doing something awful?

Because from the OP it seems that only the Grandmother saw him.

So Grandma can kill him but nobody else?

Also, where do you draw the line? At a 2 year old in a store? A 7 year old in a bathroom? A 15 year old in a car? A 19 year old on a couch?

So if a father comes home and finds his daughter with her boyfriend he is justified in killing the boyfriend because of his emotional state?

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with that. Either the crime deserves the ending of a life or it doesn't. I don't believe that lives should depend on the emotional reactions of those who happen to be present at the time.


I hope we can simply agree to disagree on this. You won't ever see it my way and I won't ever see it your way.

[ZombieHorde]

75. "I don't believe that lives should depend on the emotional reactions..."

"I don't believe that lives should depend on the emotional reactions of those who happen to be present at the time."

An understandable and logical position, but I believe human restraint has limits.

[Motown_Johnny]

94. I agree

Maybe it is because of the outrage I feel at this story that I am still for keeping the death penalty as an option


If I were on a jury I would still feel that outrage and believe that this person needs to be removed from society permanently.


I believe restraint has it's limits also and IMO our legal system should not be so restrained as to not be able to end the life of someone capable of these types of hideous crimes.



I would like to remind you that children go missing all the time. Many are taken by people like this. The sad truth here is that this girl could have been taken out a back door never to be seen again. This "person" would have been able to rape her repeatedly until his sick needs were satiated. Odds are he would have then murdered her and disposed of her body as best he could.


As grotesque as this crime was, this girl was lucky. Many others are not so lucky.

[ZombieHorde]

110. I am actually against capital punishment, but I understand why some people are for it.

I can relate to the feeling that some people should not be alive, and I can understand why someone would kill a toddler rapist, but I fear the potential for abuse or human error with capital punishment. I am also not sure the job, executioner, is a healthy one for the individual in that position.

But again, I understand why you are pro-capital punishment, and you don't have to justify your position to me.

[Mimosa]

146. He was already in jail for molesting a child but was let out

I'm for permanent solutions against such monsters.

[Hugabear]

98. Which is exactly why we have a legal system

It's not perfect by a long shot, but it's much preferable to the alternative, people taking justice into their own hands.

[ZombieHorde]

109. I am not saying killing the rapist is right, I am saying killing him is understandable. nt

[RainDog]

67. I don't claim it makes sense

however, the reason I am not pro death penalty is because the death penalty is enacted in such racist ways.

however, in a case like this, as I said, if I witnessed a man raping a child, I would have no qualms in killing him. I didn't say if it was right or wrong - I just said that this is what my reaction would be.

I do, however, think that many people would understand the difference - that's why we have degrees of killing. Was it self-defense? Was it justifiable? Was in cold blooded...

As one grass root noted above - sometimes you're in situations and you see something so horrible you don't act with your rational mind - you act with your animal brain.

when I had children - that was the first time I ever understood that feeling that you would kill to protect someone - because that's exactly how I felt. I would have killed anyone who tried to harm my child. When I read about this man, I get that same feeling that I did when I gave birth - children are defenseless against predators. My adrenaline or whatever it is just kicks in.

[Motown_Johnny]

74. Maybe we agree more than I thought

I have problems with the death penalty also. I hope my first post in this thread made that clear.


I am just trying to say that it is because of crimes like this one that I am for keeping it as an option.


I guess I just want the same level of justice for people who would harm a child in private that this "person" clearly deserves. My focus is on the victim and potential future victims, not the people who happen to witness the crime.

[ampad]

80. Thank you

This man was caught raping a baby. They say there is no cure for this type of sickness so why not put them out of their misery. Shoot that needle in the bastards arm. I have no sympathy for these freaks.

[Crystal Clarity]

134. I'm opposed to the death penalty too

But I'd like to see this guy locked up in a place so horrible that he'd wish he was dead... Every minute of every day for the rest of his life.

[PatGund]

171. Not justifable.....

I would call it praiseworthy homicide.

Anyone who does this to a child is a rabid dog, and should be put down like one.

[sendero]

36. I agree..

.... people like that have no more in common with a human being than a rabid dog has in common with Fido.

Putting them out of their misery is just about all we can do.

[awoke_in_2003]

81. this is one crime...

that I think warrants the death penalty. You cannot fix these types of people.

[HughBeaumont]

186. To me, sticking human viruses like this on a gurney and putting them to sleep is too good for them.

Put them in the GP. Child rapists are lower than refrigerator scum there. They'll never survive it.

[guitar man]

21. Do they sell utility knives there

I would have been tempted to drag him down that aisle and try one out on his nutsack :grr:

[A Brand New World]

25. Don't forget the other appendage too!!!

n/t

[guitar man]

32. I haven't forgotten

I assume they have sandpaper? :grr:

[bluestateguy]

22. He should be boiled to death in scalding hot water like they do in Uzbekistan

After being found guilty, of course.

[Danger Mouse]

23. Human filth. They put dogs down for less.

[bluestateguy]

27. I'll tell you what

We had a dog in my family many years ago, and if she saw a man doing that to a child, she'd rip him apart.

[a la izquierda]

118. Yup.

Fucking dreg of a person. Ick.

[PearliePoo2]

24. These sickos don't usually rehabilitate.

He pushes his dick into a two year old??
His dick needs to be removed and then his brains bashed in.

[bluedigger]

28. I hope he spends the night in a group holding cell.

And that the CO's told everyone why he was there.

And they don't come back until morning.

[malaise]

33. Clearly this man is mentally ill

Which sane person even contemplate attempting to rape a toddler in public, let alone rape a toddler in public.

[ZombieHorde]

58. I agree, the guy is probably mentally ill. nt

[Barack_America]

60. "Mentally ill" does not mean "beyond responsibility".

Pedophiles, though often mentally ill, are rarely psychotic. This man deserves the worst possible punishment that could come onto him.

[NashVegas]

72. Criminally Insane Would Apply

Probably has an IQ below 80, too.

[malaise]

114. I agree

:hi:

[qazplm]

89. I agree but the guy

should be locked away permanently.

[AngryOldDem]

131. Then lock him up forever.

He is CRIMINALLY mentally ill.

[uppityperson]

38. Poor kid and family, am glad they caught him.

[distantearlywarning]

39. In the middle of a store? In broad daylight?

WTF?

:crazy:

[proud patriot]

102. The whole community is Completely in shock over this

Saw the story on the local news .

[Haole Girl]

42. Why does it take so much to keep a rapist behind bars?

:-(

[KittyLover]

47. Dunno. The justice system is f'ed up.

K&R. Excellent moral fiber, and human decency shown in this thread. :)

[guitar man]

48. Because

We are so hell bent on sending all the pot smokers to jail, they'd rather keep non violent drug users behind bars and there is only so much space.

[hedgehog]

66. Repeat that as often as you can ! It's the truth!

[guitar man]

78. I do

Every single time someone asks that question that's the answer they get from me :fistbump:

[justiceischeap]

156. Because they rape women usually (even if they're 2 yr old girls)

And as we well know, women don't count...

You'd better believe that if most rapists raped men, their penalties would be much harsher.

[BlueJazz]

44. I have to keep thinking...for every person like him there's a million wonderful people.

[lukasahero]

153. In this scene alone, there were four

1 sick m'f'er.

4 who stood up to him including a grandmother and two unaffiliated men. I think that's something to hold on to.

[HarveyDarkey]

45. I agree his face should have been pounded into the pavement

EOM

[delightfulstar]

46. What the HELL is this guy's deal?

I'm not typically one who is pro-corporal punishment, but anyone who does something like that, multiple times, really should be castrated. He is one sick bastard. Thankfully, the relatives and those Good Samaritans stepped in before it got even worse. That poor, innocent little girl....

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[MrSlayer]

53. +1000000000000000000000

Agreed.

[guitar man]

70. Word!!

:fistbump:

[MrSlayer]

51. This is why I'm for capital punishment for pedos.

Get them the first time, you'll never have to worry about them doing it again.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

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[Barack_America]

56. I'm imagining myself beating the life out of this man with a tire iron.

And I'm enjoying the imagery.

[blondeatlast]

59. May he live long and unhappily in prison--and he will be unhappy. Prison karma is not at all kind

to those who hurt children.

[flvegan]

63. Yup.

That's punishment. As many days as he's got on this earth living in general population.

[Barack_America]

69. Let's hope he doesn't get the solitary confinement special treatment.

This man deserves general population.

[blondeatlast]

96. I hate to agree with you--but I agree with you.

His is going to be an unhappy life. Mercy would be making it shorter thru the DP.

[Upton]

137. They have special sections for sex offenders..

he won't be put in GP. Where he'll live fat and happy. When, by all rights, this guy should be executed.

[Barack_America]

142. Administrative errors happen.

Let's hope he is the unfortunate recipient of one.

[Obamanaut]

187. I don't think this is true everywhere. I worked in a state prison, and

sex offenders were in general population along with every other type of offender.

[Le Taz Hot]

124. He won't last the first year. n/t

[Frisbee]

61. And this folks is why I will never NOT support a death penalty.

Flame away, I don't give a damn.

[seabeyond]

116. i dont support death penalty, but i dont get your post. why rape of 2 is reason

to NOT support?

makes no sense.

[Barack_America]

128. There's a double negative there. The poster said "never not".

Meaning that he/she will always support the death penalty.

That's how I read it at least.

[seabeyond]

129. hm, lol. thanks. that would at least allow poster to make sense. nt

[Frisbee]

147. You read it correctly, and thanks for clarifying...

I really shouldn't be allowed to post after more than 2 beers. :beer:

[Upton]

139. I agree..

there are some crimes in which the ultimate penalty is called for. In fact, IMO, it should actually be applied more liberally. Those who oppose the DP are the best friends a criminal has..

[pansypoo53219]

64. WHY was he out of prison?

death penalty for sickos. and i am opposed to the death penalty.

[guitar man]

68. Because

They need the room to keep pot smokers and other non violent drug users locked up. :grr:

[flvegan]

73. You beat me to it.

Well said.

[ampad]

76. He should of never made it out of the store alive

Sick, sick bastard.

[guitar man]

83. If I had walked down that aisle

And come across that scene, he wouldn't have. I guarantee that. They would have hauled his dead carcass out of there :grr:

[ampad]

93. You speak for me

This is why my two year old is always in the shopping cart with me pushing it. I know very well that there are sick fucks like this guy out there. These people cannot be rehabilitated. He took that poor child's innocence and she will never be the same. I hope that her parents get her into therapy asap. Poor child, it just makes me sick to think about that poor baby.

[pipi_k]

85. Well, I could deal with him making it out alive if....

a certain part of him became "accidentally" damaged.

Oh, and if they had hold of him and "accidentally" dropped him on his face a couple of times.

[ampad]

91. Approrpiate punishment (nt)

[Initech]

175. I'm not violent but I completely agree.

[Odin2005]

84. That sick monster is lucky he is alive and not beaten to death by the other customers.

:grr:

[krispos42]

88. Sometimes, occasionally, you really really wish he would resist arrest.

Yanno?

[Odin2005]

90. Yup!

Put a bullet in the fucker's head.

[Very_Boring_Name]

92. I wonder if her parents will ever tell her what happened

Is it likely the toddler will retain memory of this later in life?

[Odin2005]

95. She will probably not have any conscious memories, but it will affect her behavior.

Generally memories before the age of 3 are quite rare for reasons that are not well understood. But the event will leave traces in the fear center of the Limbic System, the Amygdala, so certain things may trigger fearfulness or anxiety but she would not know why she was feeling anxious and fearful.

[blondeatlast]

103. I nearly drowned at 19 months and I still fear water even though I'm a capable swimmer.

I will not go into natural bodies of water without a great deal of coaxing and the fact that I even manage that has been a long time in coming.

[HEyHEY]

99. It's easy to say you would have beat the snot out of this guy, but I'll tell ya...

I think I could give chase and tackle him, but if I saw that I would be more shocked and even traumatized than anything. Oye.

[saras]

100. There are reasons

No, there are no reasons for what he did.

There are reasons he's not in jail, and it isn't because jail is full of pot smokers.

It's because keeping guys like this on the streets, like other forms of domestic terrorism, builds more support for a police state. Do you have any idea how much money this guy will be worth to that city's police department? They're going to need more troops, more equipment, more right to violate everyone's rights - in order to keep you all safe from people like him.

[blondeatlast]

105. Gosh.

Words fail me.

[darkstar3]

145. You know what?

People here are describing in great detail what violent things they'd like to do to this sicko, but THAT may be the most disturbing thought in the thread.

G**D***** I wish there wasn't a little part of me that suspected you might be right...

[Renew Deal]

150. That's insane

And I mean literally crazy.

[Harry Monroe]

101. In cases like this, I think castration is in order

[proud patriot]

104. My husband agrees with you

I'm still in shock can't think ...... I work with 3-5 yr olds
I just keep seeing their faces ...

[TorchTheWitch]

115. I have a cute 3 year old living next door

She just had her 3rd birthday party last weekend. I marvel at how much she's grown and matured in just a single year. To imagine anyone doing what this guy did to her how she is now is so gross I can't let the thought into my head. And to imagine it happening to her this time last year is that much worse.

Oh, I feel sick now.

[Warren DeMontague]

112. These sorts of cases I think are where the DP is justified.

My problem with the DP is that innocent people are sometimes convicted; this dude is clearly not innocent.

and it removes any chance of rehabilitation; this dude is clearly not rehabilitatable.

Sometimes it's like a sick, sick dog. Just put 'em down.

[lpbk2713]

107. He's lucky to be alive.

Doing something like that in a public setting and living to talk about it?
He defied the odds for sure.

[NuttyFluffers]

108. sweet mother of god, that's on the same side of the bay as me! how abhorrent!

:puke: :scared:

[Warren DeMontague]

111. He also attacked a 7 year old in 2003. He was probably released to make room for

someone who was growing pot in a back yard.

Un-be-fuckinglievable. No words.

[Hannah Bell]

113. why do i not believe this?

in the "brief" moment that a two year old is separated from her family in a store she comes across a pedophile in another aisle who whips off her diaper & prepares to rape her in the aisle of a store full of people? (Christmas shopping)

i don't believe it. something wrong with this story.

Looking for more facts, I find that the incident supposedly happened in the next aisle over from the grandmother, & within "20 or 30 seconds".

"This is not a case of inattentive parents or guardians. "... This happened in the space of 20 to 30 seconds," Foley said.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_16759989?source=rss&nclick_check=1


The guy looks like he has Cushings syndrome.

[seabeyond]

117. really, matters not to me if the child was in the toy isle for five or ten minutes, or a fuckin half

hour.

[Barack_America]

125. There is no doubt this man assaulted that girl.

He was witnessed by several people to be pulling his pants up as he ran from the store. The child was taken to the hospital and examined. He has already been charged with rape.

As the other poster said, the crime here is not in whether the guardians lost sight of the child for 30s, 1min., or 5min., the crime is what this man did to that child.

[Hannah Bell]

161. link?

[Obamanaut]

119. There are a lot of posts suggesting a permanent dirt nap would be

ideal for this guy, often with violence perpetrated upon him prior to his vigilante style execution.

That certainly seems at odds with the 'anti death penalty' meme found here.

[Barack_America]

126. I'm one of the posters you speak of.

And I am not anti-death penalty, just for the record.

I agree with Obama's opinion that there are certain crimes so heinous that the outrage of the community can be expressed no other way than the death penalty. This, I imagine, would be one of those crimes.

Oddly enough, I'd rather hear that this man did not receive the death penalty. I'd rather he go to prison and be placed in general population. I've no doubt that there are many inmates there who are victims of scum like this (probably more so than any jury). These inmates should be allowed to express their rage as well, for I do still consider them to be members of our community.

[Obamanaut]

160. Allrighty then. Cruel and unusual punishment, torture, brutality - all ok

if it's done by someone else and inflicted upon someone YOU deem deserving.

I am not against the death penalty. I am, however, against the death penalty being called a 'deterrent.' The prospect of a death sentence does not deter heinous crimes at all.

If one decides to do one of the crimes for which a death sentence can be imposed, "You buys your ticket, you takes your ride."

[Marengo]

138. Incidents like this certainly do expose just how thin and fragile the progressive veneer can be

Here at DU. Notice also how many posters in this thread relish the imagery of this man being tortured in one manner or another. Cases such as this test our commitment to social progress. Unfortunately many otherwise enlightened fail. Using force to stop such an crime is absolutely justified, but continuing to use force after the act has been halted and the perpetrator subdued is nothing more than brutality.

[Mimosa]

152. We tend to value childrens lives more than those of subhuman vicious scum.

How do like that?

Now tell us kiddie rapers are precious human beings, too. *rolling eyes*

[Marengo]

157. Summary execution is a progressive value?

Intentionally killing someone AFTER a crime has been committed without allowing the right of due process is murder. Hard to digest, but it's that simple.

Personally, I think the act alone signifies the individual in question suffers from a profound personality disorder. He should not have the right to freely move in society, but advocating torture as punishment is repulsive.

Oh, and if you do in fact value children's lives, don't justify extra judicial punishment and emotion driven, revenge motivated killing.

[darkstar3]

154. It's not a veneer, just a different set of brain functions

What you're reading is a visceral response to a violation so heinous that the more logical parts of us fail to comprehend it.

It is the logical part of us that makes us progressive. It is the logical part of us that makes us understand equality, careful jurisprudence, and most of all empathy. When we can logically identify with someone, we can feel empathy for them, which is one of the first steps in truly understanding someone else.

We can't logically identify with this monster. We can't feel any empathy for him. What he did drives right past that part of our brain to the primal survival instinct that tells us to protect ourselves and the children of our race. A predator attacking the young of another predator immediately becomes nothing more than prey.

[WildEyedLiberal]

164. Empathy has nothing to do with logic by definition.

Logic operates entirely free of any emotional inclination one way or another. Empathy REQUIRES an emotional connection. I could easily make a logical argument for executing this criminal, regardless of the moral implications therein. I could also make a logical argument against executing him. But logic has nothing to do with whether or not we can feel empathy for him.

[darkstar3]

165. I was trying to be brief.

I am aware that pure logic and emotion are separate. Would you have preferred that I referenced things like higher brain function, cognition, and so on? That's why I didn't simply call it logic, but rather the "logical part of the brain", which most people would understand as something above the primal.

But by all means, don't let my attempt at brevity get in the way of a good contrarian point.

[WildEyedLiberal]

167. I'm just not sure that "reason vs. emotion" accounts for the responses in this thread

There are rational reasons to support capital punishment for this criminal, and emotional reasons not to. Arguably, the reasons against capital punishment in this situation are based just as much on empathy or emotional response as the reasons in favor; comments about how we are "better than that" or about the criminal's human dignity are not logical arguments. An argument that capital punishment is not a deterrence is, in contrast, a reason-based argument. Conversely, the argument that society owes no duty to a child rapist is fundamentally rational; it is an argument that has decided that certain crimes outweigh whatever benefits that this person would bring to society.

I take your point and I know you were simplifying your argument for brevity's sake, but fundamentally, I just wanted to make the point that I reject the idea that those who favor capital punishment are automatically irrational or emotional whereas those who oppose it are automatically rational. I don't think that's necessarily true at all.

[darkstar3]

172. I see your point.

But I think that the overwhelming desire shown here to kill the violator has a purely visceral and emotional component that cannot be denied. It's the knee-jerk that you just can't stop. We can use our higher brain function to rationalize and justify pretty much any action we want to take (look at sociopaths), but I think the initial "kill that motherfucker" reaction is deeper than the part of us willing to argue civilly over the death penalty.

[Odin2005]

174. Nice RW stereotype of progresives as coddlers of sick monsters.

:eyes:

[Marengo]

185. A Reactionary Response

Are the only options in dealing with a case like this extra judicial murder or "coddling" as you frame it? One can despise a man such as this and ALSO recognize his right to due process and humane treatment while incarcerated.

[Odin2005]

188. That is what Dukakis said, most people were digusted by it.

[ecstatic]

120. There's no telling how many other little girls he raped

I'm so disgusted and saddened by this. They better not EVER let him out.

[LeftinOH]

121. Imagine your own daughter/grandchild/niece.. I would have had an adrenalin rush and killed him.

[Flipper999]

122. My soul just threw up a little.

[Le Taz Hot]

123. We have a case here involving a 2-month old girl.

They took her off life support because her injuries were so extensive. "Daddy" is in jail.

[blondeatlast]

132. Way back in the day, I worked at the state residential center for the developmentally disabled.

I worked as a nurse's aide in the infirmary.

We had one client who looked like a darling 9 month old--but she was actually 4 years old at the time. The poor thing was as cute as a button but had virtually no emotions or abilities and her physical, mental, and emotional development stopped from the horrendous damage her brain suffered.

She was, quite literally, drop-kicked into a wall by her father because she was crying. Her "loving" dad had to be kept in protective incarceration in the state prison. I often wished he'd have been in the general population--just once.

That darling's misery ended when she was 4. we were heartbroken, but also relieved for her. I can still see her sweet face in my dreams.

[Le Taz Hot]

133. He's been charged with murder and

sexual assault on a minor. It just doesn't get any sicker than that.

[GreenPartyVoter]

135. Oh dear god!

:cry:

[AngryOldDem]

130. I am so SICK of this shit!

I can't put into words what should happen to this sick fuck.

Every single day there's more news about children getting hurt, kidnapped, or killed.

What are we becoming as a society?

[SalmonChantedEvening]

136. I cannot say what I wish upon this person.

:mad:

[joeybee12]

140. Jesus Christ NEVER let a two-year-old out of your sight...NEVER!!!

That said, these places are usually crowded so I hope he was stopped verrrrrrrrrrrrry early on in the assualt...poor girl.

[Bettie]

159. You'd be surprised how quick those little ones are

My 2 year old is never allowed out of a cart when we're in a store because he can disappear in a second...turn to look at something on a shelf and poof!

Sadly, it is a blessing that he didn't leave the store with her, at least she's back with her family now.

[darkstar3]

143. BRING BACK EXILE!

In the spirit of George Carlin's great ideas regarding square states, I say we build a 50 foot electrified fence around the unoccupied areas of the Arizona desert, and we just start chucking incurable little fucks like this in there. Let them fend for themselves away from our civilized society, and if they die, no loss.

Or we could use that part of the North Pole that the US wants to claim as its own. I'm not picky.

[COLGATE4]

144. God help us if he turns out to be in the US illegally. Fux 'news'

will be beating that drum 24/7 from now until 2012 in order to persecute every Latino in the U.S. This dirtbag deserves to be tried and convicted and punished to the fullest extent of the law possible, but the repercussions of his sick act may have far greater consequences that we can imagine.

[Mimosa]

148. Why 'God help us'?

What may be, may be.

Not long after Katrina, an acquaintance of mine (a lovely person) was brutally, viciously raped and murdered after being abducted from LaFreniere Park by an illegal working construction. (They fired Americans to get cheaper labor in NOLA). The scum was never caught and went back to Mexico.

[AnArmyVeteran]

151. I heard of a case just like that on Houston then.

[WildEyedLiberal]

155. He attacked another child 7 years ago and was already out of prison?

This fuck should've never seen the light of day. Does Louisiana still have the DP for child rapists? If this had to happen at ALL, pity it didn't happen there, where they could put this sick piece of shit in the chair and flip the switch.

[yellowcanine]

163. Yes that is the crux of the problem right there.

[Bettie]

158. What a piece of garbage

First, how can anyone find a toddler sexually alluring? WTF?

Second, thanks to those men for catching him, but frankly, he'll probably be back out assaulting children again very soon.

I don't believe in the death penalty, but there needs to be a way to take these animals out of society, since their actions prove they cannot function there. There is no excuse for raping a child.

As a mom and childhood sexual abuse survivor, there is no way that man would have been able to walk out of there under his own power.

[tuckessee]

166. Why wasn't this guy in jail for the 2003 child assault?

Oh, I know - our jails are clogged with drug offenders, especially hapless souls serving out mandatory sentences.

If they put Willie Nelson in jail for his ribald cannabis use they'll be letting out another rapist like Mr. Ramos.

[BoneDaddy]

168. Execute him

He has abdicated his humanity.

[B Calm]

173. I agree with the death penality on a case like this!

[Zanzobar]

183. +1

Sane or insane.

[joe_sixpack]

176. There is obviously no humanity

left in this wretched sack of evil that would do such a heinous thing. Killing it would not be the same as killing a real human being. It's more of a public service, similar to putting a rabid dog to sleep.

[LeftishBrit]

177. Yikes

Poor little girl.

He must be SERIOUSLY criminally insane to commit such a crime in the middle of a shop!

And why was he already out of prison, and apparently not being supervised in any way, if he was convicted of trying to rape a 7-year-old in 2003?

What a horribly depressing story,

[NuclearDem]

178. I fucking hate assholes like these

Not only is it completely disgusting to rape a baby, but for rehabilitated sex offenders like myself, it only makes the stigma we have to deal with that much worse.

Fuck this guy. He should rot in prison.

[Fleshdancer]

179. I think my heart stopped briefly reading this

I admire the restraint the bystanders used and their ability to think logically. I don't think I could witness something like that without going a little crazy and overly violent.

That poor innocent little girl. :cry:

[somone]

181. Put him in jail - general population

nothing further need be done