So... Julian Assange... Traitor Or Hero ???

[WillyT]

I say hero.

And for you lovers of Authority...

I'll give a shit about state secrets as soon they stop classifying as "Secret", EVERY embarrassing, corrupt, or illegal thing they do in our names.

Until then... Go Julian!!!

:shrug:

:kick:

[NuclearDem]

1. HA! 100% say hero!

I win :crazy:

EDIT: Damn you DUers and your fast reaction voting. I would've gotten away with it too

[Ian David]

2. Flawed hero who has done more good than harm. n/t

[Better Believe It]

66. He hasn't hurt me or any of my friends or the country. How has he hurt you?

[stray cat]

3. A flowing faucet currently getting fame

There may still be ponies somewhere inside the pile

[mike_c]

4. for those responding "traitor"-- to whom?

He's not American so he owes us no allegiance. Do you think him a traitor to Australia? The UK? And why?

[eleny]

5. Hero of course - and so are you

[WillyT]

18. LOL !!!

:evilgrin:

:bounce::hi::bounce:

[MadBadger]

6. Unrec for lack of middleground in the poll

[Better Believe It]

67. Which could be: "He's doing more harm than good to the rulers"

[sabrina 1]

7. Hero, but probably unintentionally.

They are making him a hero by their hysterical reaction and threats of death and imprisonment etc. They, those who are scrambling to 'get' him, are merely confirming what is in the documents. They are bullies and people do not like bullies.

[Pharaoh]

8. Secrecy is repugnant

Said Kennedy,

Wiki is shining the light on cockroaches!

[DFab420]

9. Neither.

As Jon Stewart deftly pointed out. Since Wikileaks is housed in Sweden, and Assange is an Aussie... he can't really be a traitor to America right?

Also I am holding off cheering or jeering Julian Assange till two things happen:

1) all the dust settles

2) Rape allegations go away (i don't care who or what you do, it's a bit of a black mark, and i can't believe we (general american public) are letting this one off the hook but get in arms about football players being accused of being lewd and crude to reporters in the lockeroom etc or hitting on women in nightclubs etc etc... Not saying he's guilty, just saying I reserve my judgement on him till I know more

[AndrewP]

68. I voted hero, but I agree with your points

I voted hero for the path taken with the Wiki leaks. I don't really know what to think of the man himself.

[Barack_America]

10. Considering he isn't a citizen of this country, how can he be a traitor to it?

[WillyT]

23. Fixed It...

Kind of...

:shrug:

[SidDithers]

11. Other..

(him, not you)

Sid

[sabrina 1]

57. He's been doing this for four years. Mostly hoping not to be

noticed, expecially since he has leaked material that adversely affected some pretty bad guys in other countries.

U.S. had nothing to say about him until he published material about THEM.

Most courageous people could be called 'attention whores' by the cynically minded. And what would it matter if all heroes actually were attention whores? Most people we view as heroes are not shy or they would not have stepped into the limelight to take risks on behalf of the greater good.

Assange has addressed this charge himself. He admits he gets a lot of attention in the form of assassination threats, torture threats, threats of being arrested and charged with all sorts of crimes by the world's only Super Power and its allies. But, he points out, he also gets favorable attention so it 'balances out'.

What's interesting is that his support v opposition seems to be breaking down into two categories. The people, all over the world, love what he is doing. But Governments are furious and want him dead. What does that say? Governments are not fond of heroes, unless they get to create them. The People have chosen this hero without any paid-for PR of the kind Government heroes tend to be provided with.

People around the world, as can be seen by the thousands of comments attached to articles about him, are sick to death of their corrupt, lying governments and are starved for real ethical journalism.

If any harm comes to him, I believe there will be a huge world-wide reaction which might turn into a global people's movement creating tens of thousands of Wikileaks-like whistle-blowing organizations.

It's very foolish of the U.S. to be making a martyr of him. From the comments I've seen around the web, the U.S. is viewed as the bad guys. He has become Hans Solo and the Empire is striking back at him.

The U.S. has created this world-wide support for him by their reaction to all of this, especially since they don't come off looking very good in those documents.

[11 Bravo]

12. Not a traitor because he's not an American citizen.

Not a hero either. Just a guy, trying to make a buck.

[Swamp Rat]

17. Beat me to it.

I wonder who voted 'potayter trayter'. :silly:

[tavalon]

60. Assange is a highly intelligent man

This isn't about making money. He could easily have been another Bill Gates.

[Kablooie]

62. He's more of a traitorous hero than a heroic traitor then.

[11 Bravo]

64. Wow! That is damned near Palinesque in it's incoherence!

[MineralMan]

13. Other: Neither.

It's more complicated than your binary poll indicates.

[WillyT]

22. True... But Then Almost Every Issue Is...

And I get so tired of the parsing/caveat bullshit... I sometimes want people to just plant a flag and take a stand.

President Obama and his Administration for example...

:shrug:

[MineralMan]

30. Reality is not binary. If you think it is, then

I think you're incorrect. Many people are planting a flag and taking a stand. Far more are not, but are trying to see where each thing fits into a continuum. Binary choices are for computers. People look at things in a more complex way.

You're tired of parsing? Oh, well. It will continue, because black and white are only the absence of color or the inclusion of all colors. There's a much richer spectrum between the two. That's reality.

[A Simple Game]

36. Yes neither.

Though I don't think it is complicated, quite the opposite, has he really revealed anything we didn't already know was true or had heard on the news already? Has he told us anything that shocks us? I do admit that I haven't followed the story that close, I just don't care that much because i have yet to be surprised by any of it.

[laughingliberal]

75. Here's what I found of value:

After the Honduran coup, our government equivocated and acted as if there was some confusion as to whether it was really an illegal coup and tried to act as if there might be some valid reason for removing Zelaya. If they had admitted they knew it was a coup, there were actions they would have been legally bound to take against it. The dithering allowed them to avoid those action and then to lend credibility to the sham election.

Cables in the Wikileak release showed they had been informed of the facts and knew from the beginning it was an illegal coup.

Of course, anyone familiar with our long history of supporting the overthrow of left leaning democratically elected leaders in South America and supporting the right wing dictators knew this was an illegal coup. What Wikileaks did was take away the government's ability to keep playing dumb about it. The evidence that they were told was right there.

[RandySF]

14. I don't know what to think, BUT

I have not looked at the contents, but I did see Brian Toobin and David Gergin clutching their pearls saying that lives could be lost? Really? Can they prove this?

[sabrina 1]

15. From what I've seen, only reputations will be lost.

And the Pentagon says no lives have been lost from the previous releases and 'this is not a big deal'.

[PBS Poll-435]

16. Well Traitor doesn't work because of the obvious facts

Hero doesn't really work either.



Attention Whore? Might be leaning to that one...

[dionysus]

34. this thread could be good. i have real cupcakes and whiskey this time!!

[PBS Poll-435]

50. It's the weekend. Vodka.

:P

[Ken Burch]

42. Why? You've taken the dim view of Assange the whole week.

Why can't you accept the possibility that he could actually be working for honorable and altruistic purposes?

[PBS Poll-435]

49. Nah. He is trying to make a name for himself

W & B he is not.

[polly7]

19. HERO. n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

20. I am in the "Go, Julian!" camp --

Sunshine, gotta love it.

[WillyT]

35. And That's Why I Love You...

:loveya:

:bounce::hi::bounce:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

69. Back attcha, WillyT!

:hi: :loveya:

[steelmania75]

21. How is he a traitor? He doesn't even live in the United States.

[roamer65]

44. Delete.

[roamer65]

45. Thank you.

He is not a citizen of the US. To be tried for treason, you have to be a citizen first.

[DutchLiberal]

24. He looks like a young Bill Maher, don't ya think?

Oh, on-topic: yeah, hero, absolutely!

A Dutch left-wing blog, belonging to a Dutch public tv station and thus partially subsidized by the government, started a petition today to get prime-minister Rutte to grant political asylum to Mr. Assange.

[sabrina 1]

28. Yes, he does like Bill Maher.

[mainer]

61. A LOT better looking than Bill Maher

just saying.

[pintobean]

25. Both?

[bluesmail]

26. As of this moment, to me, an individual, he and the others at wikileaks

have chosen the hero's path. :hi:

[RoccoR5955]

27. 1,000,001% hero

And the planet needs more of him!

[NoPasaran]

29. He can't be a traitor, he isn't an American

I'll go with "Sniveling little shitheel"

[kestrel91316]

31. If somebody thinks he's a traitor to the US, I say this: HE AIN'T AMERICAN, so he

owes us not one speck of loyalty, morans.

[Amonester]

32. Those who (supposedly) work for the people, must fear the people.

He's doing it (since too very few others cannot, or 'willnot').

Same heroism.

[dionysus]

33. he's not american so he can't be a traitor....

[social_critic]

37. I can't vote

It's more of a grey issue. I like wikileaks, but I think he should exercise editorial restraint with the information, rather than dumping everything. A lot of what he's put out is fairly dumb, and this means the real juicy material gets lost in the garbage. Also, there's another issue, he does need to make sure he's not going to get somebody killed, or ruin somebody's life. And this dumping technique sure fails to do so. So, while I support the wikileaks principle, I do believe the guy has become a bit of an idiot.

[upi402]

38. Neocons set up enemies with child sex traps

I am skeptical that he wasn't set up

[Octafish]

39. What WillyT said.

Hero.

For those who wonder why: This is a democracy. What's in those cables is We the People's business.

[dbmk]

76. Really?

Every piece of information had and discussion undertaken by the goverment should be public information?

Does that go for nuclear codes, position of military units and personel, names and location of CIA/FBI undercover agents as well?

[Dinger]

40. I Voted Hero

Interesting poll.

[Ken Burch]

41. If you think he's a traitor, you're a Republican

That's all there is to it.

Secrecy leads only to Henry Kissinger-style outcomes.

[NeoConsSuck]

96. +100,000,000

DU is not the same DU in 2001. I think now it is infested with blue dogs and corporate Dems.

[Initech]

43. He's the hero America needs, but not the one it deserves.

A silent guardian. A watchful protector. A dark knight.

[unkachuck]

46. K&R....Hero!....n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

47. neither- how could he be a 'traitor' if really doesn't claim connection

with any country? Who would he believe he was betraying?

I cannot call him a hero either, at least not from what I know of him so far imo the label "hero" is thrown around pretty freely and is often misused.

:shrug:

[populistdriven]

48. S A I N T

[La Lioness Priyanka]

51. neither. he is a brave person but i tend not to have heroes, heroes always disappoint

[howard112211]

58. Also, in most cultures, the concept of heroism seems deeply intertwined

with the concept of human sacrifice. Think about it: Who gets the most praise in America? Soldiers, right before they are sent to the front lines to get slaughtered.

There seems to be a pattern there. I think, even in ancient cultures the practice was the same: A person gets singled out, gets praised, gets offered all the good stuff society has to offer, and then is cast into the volcano to please the gods.

I am caucious about it, whenever someone gets placed onto a pedestal. It might be that this person is just being prepared as a sacrificial lamb.

edit: I think I will make that into an OP.

[Fumesucker]

81. "Who gets the most praise in America?"

Politicians, you might recall the week plus long Reagasm in 2004..

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. He is NOT a US citizen so the treason standard to the US

does not apply.

Sorry for sticking to what words mean.

As is under US Code, IF he were a US Citizen, proving treason is not easy. You can thank the Mad Man himself, George III.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. He's a troublemaker in the eyes of the powerful who are trying to silence him. IOW - A hero.

[Violet_Crumble]

54. A hero because of the way he's made some heads explode....

Traitor sounds better, but not being an American, it doesn't fit too well. But all the drama and hysteria with those set up rape accusations and calls for his assassination have been very entertaining reading :)

[MrMickeysMom]

55. Do another poll...

Here it is...

AMERICA - HOW FASCIST ARE WE GETTING?

1) We love capitalism.. Yeah corporations!
2) We love Walmartization of America... Fuck you, little guy!
3) Vote? Corporations as people don't need no stinkin vote.... we write policy! Yay closed door policy!!
4) SCOTUS drools and corporations RULE!!!! Go candidates!!
5) You vill show us ze paypers and we vill cut your hours and benefits. Now, go work five jobs before we have you detained!
6) EVERYTHING YOU OWN IS OURS!!! Yeaaaahhhh!!!! Go beg for some credit and suck our big ones!!!!

[TheKentuckian]

56. We need more where he came from.

[WinkyDink]

59. "Traitor" to what nation?

[cherokeeprogressive]

63. Can't be a traitor, sure as fuck isn't a hero.

Moot poll.

[strawberryfield]

65. Somebody who understands himself doesn’t need heroes

That is what my grandpa liked to say. I find this need to put somebody on a pedestal to be odd. Beyond that, it is a complete waste of our time and energy. Eventually all false messiahs will be shown to have feet of clay.

[okieinpain]

70. there should be a option for stupid. n/t.

[TheWatcher]

71. Why? This Poll isn't about you.

Stay On Topic Please.

Geeez, Talk about Self-Absorbed.

[okieinpain]

74. nor is it about you. n/t.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWatcher]

72. 27 People Worship The Oligarchy and Lick Their Boots, I See.

Hope the Crumbs From The Table Are Worth It For Them.

GO FASCISM!

[Individualist]

80. That's what DLC does.

[Politics_Guy25]

89. You sir are no democrat-n/t

[TheWatcher]

94. And as usual, you make stupid assumptions that make you look very, well....stupid.

Registered Democrat for 24 years.

Voting record is the same.

And sir?

Wrong again. Thanks for playing.

Have you got any other fabrications you'd like to toss out, or are you done making a fool of yourself for today?

Why not make a grandstanding post about how 9.8% Unemployment is "Good News" and give us a laugh, or better yet, make some more educational posts about Economics from About.Com, for an even bigger laugh?

Come on, Dazzle us with your big brain full of facts and knowledge.

Oh wait, you can't. That would be "Intellectual Elitism."

:rofl:

[bemildred]

73. Oh my God! DU is "divided" about whether Assange is a hero! nt

[Quantess]

78. A little bit of a traitor, but mostly heroic, IMHO

Kind of like the 10 / 90 split results on this poll.

[Vidar]

79. A hero for the entire world.

[PBS Poll-435]

83. Sniff, sniff, *tear*

:eyes:

[TheWatcher]

84. And another Snark For Fascism.

Lick Those Boots.

MMMMMM GOOOD.

:crazy:

[PBS Poll-435]

86. Finger-Lickin' Good

:P

[TheWatcher]

92. Well, at least you admit it.

See, that's another great side effect of what this whole thing with Assange has brought out.

It is not only exposing the depth of Government Corruption, it is also taking the mask off of people who really don't care about anything other than staunchly supporting The Party Line, Political Theater, Perception Management and message Control, and the Maintenance of The Corrupt Status Quo at all costs.

Case In Point.

Keep Licking those Boots, and supporting that "Football Team."

[Boudica the Lyoness]

82. Hero

The truth will set us free.

[Sapphireprick]

85. Hero

He exposed the illegal spying of Diplomats.

[Taverner]

87. Hero. True Hero.

[Cid_B]

88. Traitor doesn't apply...

Enemy of the US and it's allies perhaps...

Scumbucket is what normally floats through my mind...

[Arctic Dave]

90. He's a major ass kicking rockstar hero that shoots lasers from his eyes. FUCK YEAH!

[keepfreespeechalive]

91. HERO!!!

[Canuckistanian]

93. A traitor to Australia?

How so?

[NeoConsSuck]

95. Hero! Now please donate!

http://www.wikileaks.ch/support.html