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So how much will MY income taxes go up if they do nothing??

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SmileyRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:11 AM
Original message
So how much will MY income taxes go up if they do nothing??
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 10:17 AM by SmileyRose
My income has been fairly stagnant for 15 years.
I pulled tax returns for 1999 and 2009. After all the deductions and worksheets etc here's what I can expect.


Pre Bush tax cut - 15% ..................... Total Tax $1957
After Bush tax cut - 10% ................... Total Tax $1566


Now I'll admit, that $400 a year more I'll have to pay makes all the difference. We live so frugal now about the only place I can cut is groceries by $8 a week or so. Which won't be easy to tell you the truth.

But I'll gladly go back to the financial difficulties I had prior to GW. Why? Because my friends and family had JOBS !!!


I'll bet my last nickel this fight isn't over my $400. It's over the fact the top bracket's 5% tax hike will be gazillions of dollars and the elite at the very top, who pay almost everything on capital gains at 15% will get a REAL hike. And those people have gotten used to being able to hoard the cash.



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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. i would prefer not to have the tax break, too. nt
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. The label trap in the words Jobs is brutal.
Really have to think to not get sucked into a bad delusion on that one.


Side note to breaking that delusion, who should be supported Job, or the things that attack him? That delusion fails when people side with the concept of being the things that want to hurt. Or think it is about showing off. To break that delusion, all you have to do is show it is about helping all the Jobs that are treated wrongly also. Not creating Jobs to be hurt. So you can be the thing that attacks Job, or that gives him strength in hardship, might that say something also?
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Label trap?
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. The label trap, I have posted on that many times.
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 02:15 PM by RandomThoughts
It is using a word that has a few meanings, then being able to change the contextual meaning of something by crossing that definition. It is also how marketing can program people.

I been posting on the concept of how the label trap can be used to create problems for awhile. It is not seeing something for what is inside it, but only some external label that can be programmed, like when some radio loaded 'liberal' label with bad thoughts in many peoples macros for that word.

That label trap in Jobs is to use Jobs the concept of work, and the book of the bible Job, in two different ways. The first way is better, but still label trap. It says people that actually do work are in some way honorable, but it leads to many problems like thinking doing work or what work is makes the difference. Although working does not define a person, but also what kind of work they do and why. Work does not set you free. But doing some kinds of work can help people, some work can hurt people. But that label trap is really bad, it was tried on me, easy to avoid that delusion, and know that not all work is the same.

The second label trap in that is the concept that goes with a few delusions used on some people that are in the delusion of the spiritual as a money system, where someone elses suffering pays for someone elses luxury. So to 'get a job' is to find someone willing to suffer so you can have it easy. It is one of the backward doctrines that if empathy can be broken can give someone a reason to create hardship, then creating jobs to them means creating suffering and blind obedience, as they see it, to some faith that they, as opposites, think is a method so some can have luxury and many will do the work so they can have that luxury. Those that say 'givers' are fools, and life is about what you can take, fit into that delusion many times.

Terrible delusion, many have it, but they wont ever talk about it, not even sure if they can, although 2nd and 3rd defense breaks that delusion easily.


The way Job got the name Job, was because Job did God's work. Although many people think of working for some economic system as the same thing. Why I think people in hardship should be comforted by those with extra things to make things a little easier, if you think on what Job was doing.

And actually that is the way Bankers could be doing God's work, and do in some degree. If they are working on things with greed problems, and I understand that. However they shouldn't do what they say, although you can show them love. If they are being greedy, and don't recognize that as something bad, they are just being defeated daily, and not teaching or helping, effectively they are losing, although with faith they should be able to learn that.

That is also why when people fight back by thinking and feeling on those issues they get kicked around for awhile, things can get a little weird, since they are fighting a 'greed' that could have different degrees of access to other support. Also why you track back and flip or remove the thing oppressing them. If you just take out the little thing in them, then more return because they are still in the same hierarchy, and worse you may have hurt something that is under oppression itself.

Or I was going to write a story like that one day, if it is hard to understand think of it as a story, the last part is more of a feeling or a representation or metaphor.

It is also possible that they 'need' some level of wealth to handle some other issue they are working on, so I really don't judge them for having money, just hope they can help with the suffering in many places and information and honesty so people can learn things. Depends if they follow greed or not and if that hurts people. Heh, it is important to say that I don't blame bankers, but a world government based on money for money or control with secrecy can only be argued if you think people are evil, and if you think that, the world can never get better. But there also are delusions to get people to only see bad in people, or as monsters. So that is much of how that happens.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Okay, I see what you mean
Thanks for explaining.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. If the entire tax cut sunsets....
There will be an infusion of money into the government at next year's tax filing.

That will affect EVERYTHING you have to pay for. Government fees for passports and licenses won't have to go up or won't go up so sharply. Food will not be as costly because inflation will be less.

WE WIN if the entire bill sunsets.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. What significant fees are assessed at the federal level?
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 10:38 AM by Cant trust em
Most of the fees I pay are local or state (recycling fees, parking tickets, car registration, etc.)

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. The federal gov't is starving the states.
That's why all the local fees go up. But there are a million other assessments tacked on to every bill you pay, aren't there? You really think you pay no federal fees? LOL!
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. So what you really want is to save corporations from paying those fees?
The federal government tacks those fees on to corporations for little things here and there. The corporations pass them on to us, so you want to raise taxes so that corporations don't pay the fees. Is that the logic here?
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daleanime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. Exactly...
O8)
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. My increased bite will be closer to a grand
but since I live so far below my income, I won't feel it except my house fund will grow a little more slowly, big woop. It's something I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice for the good of this country.

I'm especially pleased to see that capital gains rate rise again since that is one of the two things that will rein in the hedge funds and their computerized trading that is skewing the market so badly. The other would be an 0.5% tax on transactions, but I suppose we'll grow old and die waiting for that one.

The tax cuts were reckless when they were done and the cuts at the bottom cost as much as the cuts at the top, although they did far less damage to the economy and the country. They all need to die.

Cuts targeted to the bottom two earnings quintiles should be revisited, but this next Congress won't do them.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. Most would face no more than a 2-3000 increase and then more likely those with kids
Do to a decrease of 500 per child if the tax cuts for kids is included
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Who is "most?"
I think you mean "due" not "do." (Sorry, I just graded too many assignments that read "there going to same speed" instead of "they're going the same speed.")
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Is a 2000 increase supposed to be a small amount or a large one?
What's your interpretation on this number?
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MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
10. Totally agree! I'd prefer to pay between $400 and $1,000 more a year in tax rather than
continue the $2.6 millions tax break for Rush Limbaugh!

And, please, do not tell me that Limbaugh will "RUSH" to hire people if he keeps that tax break!!!
What a joke!
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. Actually, it's about the top 1% who earn 23.5% of all income. Republicans work for them, not us.
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. My taxes will go up about $5000
But I don't mind, I can afford it. What really bothers me is the way they spend tax dollars. I don't support foreign wars, and would like to see all of our troops brought home. And I prefer to see the budget balanced as well.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
13. A fave bumper sticker I sported during the Bush years:
Hey George, tax cuts don't matter when you don't have a job!

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SmileyRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Heh
I like that.

Even more appropriate now

Tax cuts don't matter when you don't have a job.
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. I have no problem
letting the tax cuts go. of course I can use the extra money. We all can, but I would rather see the rich pay their share. As someone noted upthread, in the long run we and the country benefit.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. My property taxes increased over $1200 this year so no I can't afford another tax increase
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 12:20 PM by NNN0LHI
Wish I could, but I can't.

Don
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. The biggest problem is that if they all expire, the R's come back in January and extend them
all permanently and don't do anything about unemployment. Looks like we're either screwed or super screwed at this point due to a massive messaging and communication failure on part of the Dems.

FWIW, I'd gladly pay my increase to have all the cuts expire. The reality is that it would only last a couple months at best.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. "massive messaging and communication failure on part of the Dems"
which keeps happening over and over and over and over and over and over and...
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
20. At first I opposed my taxes going up, but I'm over it now.
Let the whole damn thing expire, balance the budget and let the Republicans spin it as Obama having raised everyone's taxes. Its worth the spin.
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