It's so obvious, we don't matter. The Administration doesn't even pay attention to our concerns

[DainBramaged]

they don't listen, they don't respond to letters or phone calls or emails. Our elected representatives (with rare exception) don't give a shit either. ALL of them make deals benefiting themselves and don't care if one of us or millions of us are in the ditch over their concessions and ignorance of our condition.


I asked a question a couple of days ago, and was basically smacked down. If we can't get the attention of our political leaders by any means and honest answers from those we trust, why even be involved?


I am sick over the exposure of this Administration as gutless and deaf. At least during the Booshe years, I could fight back and express my anger. Here, you aren't allowed to be angry anymore, just submissive. And after almost 60 years, submissive is not part of my vocabulary. If Obama gives the Pukes what they want, I think 2012 will be a watershed year for the Democratic party. So many of them will be booted because they don't get it it won't be pretty. And I think many of the sites like DU will become ghosts of themselves, because we will be back in 1980 again with a generation of Repuke leadership, and no one to turn to. But maybe before my time comes, a few that really are Progressives will be elected, and I'll give a shit again.


I miss Ted Kennedy more than I realized. He was a Democrat for all to follow.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. ...

:hug:

[xchrom]

2. Well, let's be honest - there's a serious attempt to redefine 'progressive'

Within a neo-liberal frame work.

[jefferson_dem]

9. It seems some hope to redefine liberal as "sufficiently critical of this Democratic president."

Ideology flipped on its head.

[xchrom]

19. Nixon was a liberal - Obama is a reaganite.

Those are the divides you're talking about.

[jefferson_dem]

41. Now i've heard it all.

May I put your Orwellian comment as my siggy line. Please?

[xchrom]

49. No. Because you misunderstand it .

It's actually true.

Reagan/Thatcher remade the world.
Many current Democratic Elites --like Clinton
Or Obama use Reagan style approaches
To legislating.

[DainBramaged]

50. Here's one for you that makes it perfectly clear

Jeffersonian democracy, so named after Thomas Jefferson, is a political philosophy supporting a federal government with greatly constrained powers and advocating a strict interpretation of the U.S. Constitution. Jeffersonian philosophy also called for state and local governments to safeguard the rights and property of citizens. Jeffersonians recognized both private and common property. This philosophy dominated American politics in the years 1800-1820s. It is contrasted with Jacksonian democracy, which dominated the next political era, and Federalism, a contemporary political theory advocating a strong federal government.


THAT is what a jefferson Democrat is.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffersonian_democracy

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

55. Harassing me and carrying an argument from one thread to another is kind of creepy

don't ya think? I thought you , nah, you're like all the rest, can't take rejection. And you are trying desperately to divert the attention from the questions I asked, and your goose is cooked.


You really need to let it go. It's not healthy.

[xchrom]

56. I agree with Dainbramged - but only to a point.

I can't reconcile welfare to work and HCR with progressive
Thinking -- at all.

I can't reconcile nafta and Arne Duncan.

And so it goes -- gheitner, sommers, etc --
The party elites are adopting - have adopted neo-liberal
Legislative approaches to governing.

These pieces of legislation aren't good for the country -
And they are not 'progressiv' as we understood it up until
Reagan/Thatcher.

[amborin]

74. exactly; and started off with Summers, a reagan disciple, as his chief economic advisor

[DainBramaged]

43. Do you support the Administration's efforts to extend the Bush tax cuts?

A simple question. You don't like criticism of the Administration, so I'd like to know if you support the tax cuts?

[jefferson_dem]

52. I support the policy that Obama has laid out as a priority.

Extending tax cuts for the middle class. Yuppers.

[laughingliberal]

39. +1000 nt

[Individualist]

69. ++

[Poboy]

3. I wonder how disappointed Ted would feel after being betrayed by the person he endorsed.

[MissDeeds]

32. I've wondered that too

The 'liberal lion' of the Senate probably would have been appalled by the timid leadership of the candidate he supported. Teddy fought for causes he believed in.

:cry:

[Poboy]

57. timid is a word, personally I'd say he is SHITTING on Ted's memory and support.

[asdjrocky]

4. All you have to be is rich.

It really is that simple. If you are rich they will listen to your concerns like they are your therapist, your life coach and, most importantly, your financial manager, because that is what they are for you.

If you're rich.

[leeroysphitz]

5. You asked why we should even be involved but I honestly feel like they do not want us involved.

It's like President Obama and all of his trendy DLC and republican friends are planning a big keg party but everyone is under strict orders not to tell the progressives about it because they are not invited and would totally ruin the party if they showed up.

[montanacowboy]

6. You are so right

Even the smallest critique of the great Obama on this board will get you slapped down immediately. He was not my first choice but I gladly voted for him, beliving all that change and hope shit. From the beginning it was apparent he would follow pretty much Bushco's footsteps, bigger and better wars, no prosecutions of the crime family and the torturers,gitmo not closed, and a million other things which are just too numerous to mention such as giving away the public option and back room deals with big pharma.

Oh yes, it was Obama's 3 dimensional chess, I forgot that. And now, the billionaires will get their tax cuts, yes they will, and the wars will continue and jobs will disappear and unemployment will rise. DADT and START will probably be defeated also, what have we to celebrate?

I hope the rich and the corporations realize that over the arc of history the oppression of the people eventually leads to revolution. What do people who have no homes, no jobs and are hungry do? Hopeless and angry people will revolt to save their families and the rich will hide behind their walls. Is this the kind of America they want? It seems so.

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. That's absolute nonsense

The Administration is currently taking endless hits from the Left in order to get the unemployment compensation, child care tax credits, and making work pay credits that will precisely assist the working class. It is also seeking to get a vote on the DREAM Act, another working class bill. Finally, it us working to push through DADT repeal, another major constituent and general civil rights issue. For those effort, which require horsetrading, it is spit on and stomped on. Meanwhile, you get exactly none of those things passed without the very deals that people are stomping their little feet about. Zero. The Republicans would filibuster all of it. No unemployment extension, no child care tax credit, no making work pay credit, no DREAM act, no DADT repeal, fucking nothing.

I've had enough of this "they're nit listening to us" bullshit. You're not listening to what's going on.

[Hello_Kitty]

67. Okay fine.

But when the catfood austerity measures come along and you guys defend them because "we have to do something about our debt!" I will remind you of your support for extending all these tax cuts and adding trillions to the deficit.

[treestar]

8. They listen to everyone's and not just yours

That's the problem you have, apparently.

Why do people think the WH is the focus of their lives?

[Lorien]

13. "EVERYONE'S"??? Fuck no. They listen to the GOP and their corporate cronies

their actions make that all to obviously clear. They care about the bottom line of the RICH; they don't give a rat's ass for those of us who voted them into office.

[SidDithers]

10. How many General Motors jobs were saved by this administration?...

and you say they don't give a shit? :eyes:

I call bullshit on your whole premise.

Sid

[Lorien]

14. They give a shit about Wall Street portfolios. They don't give a shit about workers

offshoring has INCREASED since Obama came into office.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Angry Dragon]

26. You are correct that GM was saved

If I remember correctly that came with a lot of demands.
The unions were forced to give up things.
The money that GM got was a drop in the bucket to what the banks got
How many people had to give up things because the banks got bailed out??
Bonuses given up??

[SidDithers]

31. Was the outcome better than the alternative?...

Would the collapse of GM have been a better option for the US? (and Canada, since our auto industries are so integrated)

Sid

[Angry Dragon]

33. You missed the point

I was comparing the bank bailout to the bailout of the auto industry
Why were the rules different for the two??

[DainBramaged]

34. Like I had said previously, the word premise is misunderstood by some here

and without being in the auto industry, claiming intimate knowledge of said subject is about as useful as myself claiming to understand titanium welding pine trees together.

[Angry Dragon]

40. I had no problem with your post

My comments were directed to another

[DainBramaged]

42. I know.

This thread isn't about the GM bailout, but someone WANTS it to be.

[Angry Dragon]

46. Maybe he wants a free car

:hi:

[DainBramaged]

48. Ain't happening

Some days some people are critical of the GM bailout, other days they support it. It just depends on which way the front is blowing......and if they can hijack a thread using it as a diversion....

:hi:

[SidDithers]

36. I don't know why the rules were different for the two...

but I do know that without government intervention, the North American auto industry, and many thousands of jobs, were in jeopardy.

With intervention, many thousands of jobs were saved.

Sid
edit: changed to more realistic numbers

[Angry Dragon]

38. I agree with that

I just found it at the time that the government was so worried about leading money to the auto industry with all kinds of rules and at the same time they had no rules for the banks and they gave them so much more. The banks caused the mess and had no accountability.

[immoderate]

65. The plantation was saved. Who benefited most? Not the slaves.

--imm

[Mimosa]

75. It's called 'Disaster Capitalism' Sid...

Disaster capitalism is when the working class must submit like good serfs in order to eat and keep roofs over our heads.

[eilen]

59. GM workers are now working for 50% their previous wages.nt

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Steely_Dan]

11. Funny You Should Bring Up...

the possibility of the demise of the Dem Party in 2012 if things don't change.

It wasn't that long ago (right after the 2008 election) that people were saying that the Republican Party was on life support. How could have things turned around so suddenly. A huge opportunity (historic opportunity) was squandered. Almost unbelievable.

-P

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lob1]

16. And I have to wonder what's going on when dems are afraid

to fight for what the big majority of people want. Like no tax cuts for the rich and no cuts in social security. They shouldn't even be on the table.

[NNN0LHI]

17. What are your specific complaints?

Did you expect hundred dollar bills to begin raining down on us after President Obama was sworn in?

Seriously, what were your expectations.

Don

[Still a Democrat]

20. You expect more than hyperbole from these types of posts?

Boy will you be disappointed.

[undeterred]

21. Is "hyperbole" your vocabulary word of the week?

I can hardly wait until next week.

[DainBramaged]

23. Me too, I love soap operas

:yourock:

[Still a Democrat]

28. Pretty accurate way

to describe some of this stuff.

[DainBramaged]

29. Maybe you need to post on a non-hyperbolic board?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

54. Hello my friend

Sometimes the 'tone' of the reply makes you question the intent..........


I still think he should find a hyperbolic forum......:rofl:

[TheKentuckian]

45. Hundred dollar bills are raining down on Wall Street, the insurance cartel, pharma, the MIC, and

the rich, I don't see why we can't get on the act since we will be saddled with the bill.

[Still a Democrat]

18. Sounds like you make over 250k

Because that's who this administration is fighting against.

Congratulations.

[DainBramaged]

22. You don't know much about us do you?

:eyes:

[Desertrose]

25. WHA...?

THIS administration is fighting those who make OVER $250k??


REALLY? That is how you see it?

O. M. G.

[Still a Democrat]

30. Read up

It's the GOP negotiating for those folks.

[RegieRocker]

24. Yep try calling a Representative

you will talk to one of the minions and guaranteed they don't care if the majority wants something. They will do it their way.

[Autumn Colors]

35. You know....

I feel the same way you do, but did you have to drag Maru into it?

:P

http://www.youtube.com/user/mugumogu?feature=chclk#p/u/4/b16TSu1S3Lk

[DainBramaged]

44. I LOVE mugumogu's Channel!

[Hissyspit]

71. Here:

Maru hijacks your thread.

[DainBramaged]

72. Maru shoud be the mascot of DU

:hug:

[Odin2005]

37. And the Apologists here want us to bend over and take it as long as it's "our side"...

...doing the fucking.

[TheKentuckian]

47. Apparently if "ours" are caught eating babies they should be excused because

Sarah Palin and Mitch Daniels will surely eat live babies and the suffering will be worse.

No accountability or children will suffer as their live flesh is gnawed to their little bones.

[LiberalEsto]

58. True. Instead, they call us names.

We're "fucking retards," etc.

Wouldn't it be nice if the current administration actually got tough on the Repukes instead of getting tough on the progressives who helped elect him?

[Missy Vixen]

60. It's not "name-calling"

It's "truth-telling". There will be another "truth" when it's time for fundraising for 2012.

>Wouldn't it be nice if the current administration actually got tough on the Repukes instead of getting tough on the progressives who helped elect him?<

We both know the answer to that question, don't we?

[Poboy]

61. Anyone fill out their post-election survey?

I filled mine out this weekend. I gave them a SCATHING essay!

[Sheepshank]

62. I simply don't see things to that extreme.

I guess some would simply tell me that my expectations are low. I'd say perhaps my campaign rhetoric filter is flipped to 'on' for every candidate every time. But I simply don't see that the WH is doing NOTHING, EVER for the population as a whole.

Maybe it's simply that extreme statements are getting old and I just turn off and phase out of the possibility of rational discussion?

[DainBramaged]

64. Wait, I didn't say they weren't doing nothing, they aren't listening to US

that's a HUGE difference.

[Sheepshank]

66. I must have mis-read and misunderstood the intent in your first paragraph then

they don't listen, they don't respond to letters or phone calls or emails. Our elected representatives (with rare exception) don't give a shit either. ALL of them make deals benefiting themselves and don't care if one of us or millions of us are in the ditch over their concessions and ignorance of our condition.

[DainBramaged]

68. Why can't you take anything at face value?

:eyes:


Where the F F F did I say they weren't doing anything??????


Intent my wrinkled old ass. They don't listen, and like so many you didn't read just what I wrote JUST what you wanted to see.

[Initech]

63. It's pretty clear that Obama's not really the one in charge here. Wall Street is.

[beforeyoureyes]

70. When Pelosi purposely put all calls regarding the vote on the public option

...through to an answering machine...(I called both the California and Washington office, and personally experienced this and directly ASKED if this was intentional...they confirmed it was...)

I knew the make us do it was just a big lie to pass blame off onto the people when they failed to represent our stated and known wishes.

[Mimosa]

73. Oh, Dain, you never really loved him! *teasing* n/t