Private schools in my town aren't really that great

[Crazy Dave]

From what I've seen over the years and from some personal experience with friends and relatives who currently have children in them:

1. Most of the teachers are paid up to 30% less than their public school peers and have no retirement benefits.

2. Most did not qualify to be or were fired as public school teachers. Some laid off but you can't blame them for that.

3. My neighbor recently told me that her daughter told her that the teacher in one of her classes (a Christian academy) writes some stuff on the board for the students to study, tells them to leave her alone or get written up, then she either texts all day or shops online with her laptop.

True story.

With the exception of living overseas for six years as a child, my entire education was in the public school system, most of the teachers were very well qualified, they didn't take any crap off the students and even though the internet wasn't around back then, they didn't sit there in class reading the paper, they taught or stayed on your ass the entire class.

[GoCubsGo]

1. You must live in my town.

That's how it is here, too. Especially at all of those "Christian academies."

I went to both public and Catholic schools. They claim Catholic schools are the best. That's pure bullshit. The only thing we learned there was how to memorize stuff and regurgitate it. Thank goodness I was given the option to complete my last few years of high school in a public school, where you actually had to think for yourself.

[Crazy Dave]

8. We're both in the S.E.

Fl here :hi:

[Dappleganger]

11. The christian schools here in Jax

are awful. Jesus Christ, two students in one school just murdered another student not long ago for no good reason other than they wanted to see what it was like to blow somebody's head off. I mean, WTF are they teaching in those "christian" schools??

There are a couple of very pricey college-prep schools the rich kids go to and they are a different category.

[Crazy Dave]

22. JAX here too

:hi: :toast:

[JCMach1]

34. I remember the Private schools in North Florida and virtually ALL are crap

so yeah!

[eilen]

2. My nephew goes to public schools in TN

and they aren't much better.

His Art teacher had literally NO ART up on walls or anywhere visible. I don't even think she was trained as an art teacher.

All one needs is a 4 year degree in anything to be a teacher there. My sister considered it but she would take a paycut (as well as benefit cut) from her legal secretary job to work as a teacher there.


The schools seem very hung up on rules. My other nephews school penalizes children for staying home sick -- even when they are sick and have an excuse. I think they require a doctor note.

Any minute infraction incurs in-school suspension--ISS (in which you are required to sit in a classroom all day quietly and get no instruction whatsoever). This includes the infraction of not having your shirt tucked in. Many overweight boys don't like to tuck their shirts in. This rule is only enforced in elementary and middle schools. The school officials say an untucked shirt can hide a weapon. They do not enforce this rule in the high schools. Seriously, they say this with a straight face. They are not allowed to schedule after school detention because of the bussing schedules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. There's a federal regulation that says you can't teach with just a 4 year degree in anything

So your claim is false.

[eilen]

10. You sure can Sub! and subs can cover long absences.

Substitute Teachers


* Substitute Management Training



All items MUST be turned in to complete the application packet:

* On-line application ;
* 2 professional references; if listing references with email addresses on application it is not necessary to include additional letters; however, verfication that online references have been returned must be received before application packets can be accepted;
* Official College Transcripts showing 60+ credit hours from an accredited college or university for substitute teaching or high school diploma for substitute support positions
* TB Skin Test Results or Low Risk Assessment Results; either can be obtained at local health clinics or MNPS clinics for $10;
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* Copy of Drivers License and Social Security Card.

INCOMPLETE PACKETS WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED

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60 credit hours
(Less than a Bachelor's Degree) $73.24 per 7.5 hour day or $9.77 per hour

Bachelor's Degree and Higher
(Non-certificated) $78.45 per 7.5 hour day or $10. 46 per hour

Valid TN Teaching License $83.70 per 7.5 hour day or $11.16 per hour

Support Substitutes
(Less than 60 credit hours) $74.78 per 7.5 hour day or $9.97 per hour


Beginning January 1, 2011 ALL substitute applicants must complete an online training course and receive a composite score of 85% before being approved for hire. Click here for more information on the online cou

http://www.hr.mnps.org/Page45790.aspx

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. So is the post about subs or about fully certified teachers

The rules for subs vary widely from state to state. But under NCLB all teachers must be highly qualified and fully certified.

[eilen]

32. I'm sure NCLB has lots of rules

regardless, I always felt that NCLB was poor policy.

I guess what I am trying to say is that no matter what school (pubic or private), if it is not properly funded and if teachers are not given proper professional salary, given the respect deserved to professionals and held to appropriate standard (professional) qualifications (ie certification) quality suffers.

[eilen]

12. There are some really good teachers in every school system

but there are also some that are not and the more wages and benefits are cut, the quality people leave.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Yet you zero in on the bad ones

And BTW, the attendance mandate you mentioned in your earlier post is also due to NCLB. Schools are rated on performance on standardized tests as well as attendance. If a school does well on the tests but has attendance below 94% they are labeled as failing.

[TBF]

17. that has got to be specific to public schools - unless it's a very new reg.

I used to recruit for independent schools (about 10 years ago) and they hired myriad of majors for those schools (often looking for ivy league kids who were taking a year or two off before grad school).

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Yes only public schools

[Scruffy1]

20. This is misleading

All NCLB says is that you must have a four year degree, a state license, and demonstrate competency in the subjects taught. I order to get a state license in most states you need many required education courses and other states are more lax. It's really up to each state to set the requirments for a teaching certificate. By the way I hold certificates in two states.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. And those requirements are based on federal mandates

The claim I responded to: "All one needs is a 4 year degree in anything to be a teacher there" is not true. Not since NCLB became law.

[MedicalAdmin]

23. Actually mate you are only sorta right.

Although that rule does exist Administrators are allowed to apply for "emergency credentials" if the teacher doesnt meet criteria and the admin claims emergency need. Many states grant it pro-forma. It's BS.

And given that it is granted as long as the teacher in question agrees to start becoming qualified within a years time and then the teacher is released from that contract during the summer and rehired again in the fall under a new contract and emergency credentialing starts all over again with the same crooks and a different year.

I've seen it happen commonly.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. They've done away with those emergency credentials in many states

They don't give them out in my district at all anymore. I believe the state stopped issuing them also. But I'm not positive.

[MedicalAdmin]

35. No shit? I need to be better informed.

Of course I'm not teaching anymore since the time I was fired without cause. Like many I just moved on. My 10 years experience tells me that education is a dead end career wise. The investment isn't worth the payoff. If I had to do it again, I'd become an electrician. I wouldn't have waste 16 years of my life for nothing.

[knitter4democracy]

38. Our state still allows them but has massive hoops to jump through.

You have to prove beyond the shadow of any doubt that you advertised the job well enough, that there were no other qualified candidates at all, and all sorts of stuff. Those credentials are rarely given out anymore.

[NotThisTime]

4. Well, we must be exceptional because our Independent school is awesome, teachers, staff, admin - all

fantastic teachers, my kids can't wait to go to school everyday... they never want to go back to the public school where my son actually had to bring in reference books HE had to give them the information they needed to teach their class.

Point? Every place is different and every school is different... I won't put any of them down until we've walked in the student's shoes...

[SheilaT]

5. I'm under the impression that

qualifications to teach in public schools are set by the states. Private schools, including parochial schools, aren't subject to those regulations. My younger brother and sister attended Catholic schools through 8th grade where the only requirement to teach was to have joined the teaching order of nuns. These days, there aren't enough nuns so most of the teachers in Catholic schools are lay people.

My kids went to an excellent private school where the teachers were dedicated to teaching the students. Many of them told me that even though they were paid less, they would not consider returning to the public school system. Some of the teachers had gone through all of the teacher training required by some state or another, and now were grateful just to concentrate on teaching. Some had no teaching certificate, but a major in whatever subject matter they were teaching. The classrooms sizes were smaller, kids didn't get away with a lot of crap.

And no teacher sat at the front of the room texting or shopping on line. The neighbor whose child is in that classroom needs to complain bitterly to the principal of that school and not tolerate it just for a "Christian" education.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Standards for teachers are now set by the federal govt

NCLB mandates that now.

[SheilaT]

18. But that still only applies

to the public schools, right?

[knitter4democracy]

19. Not quite. They have to worry about North Central, too.

Or whomever certifies them as a real high school that can give real diplomas. Those accrediting agencies tend to follow the exact same rules for private as for public schools, which means NCLB applies everywhere these days.

[SheilaT]

30. Well, my two sons went to an extremely good

independent school in Kansas City, MO. A real high school that gives real diplomas. One that requires the kids graduate with an excess of credits, and that requires students take five solids each and every semester. Seniors don't just take one or two classes because that's all they need to graduate. It's accredited by whatever the appropriate accrediting agency for independent schools. I just looked at the school's website, and looked at part of the faculty list. Not a single teacher has a master's in education. Most of them to have master's degrees, but they tend to be in the subject area they are teaching.

[knitter4democracy]

31. I've taught in private schools and public schools.

There are great ones of each, and there are really awful ones of each.

Also, more and more states are removing the education master's degree unless it's one in administration. You pretty much have to get your master's in your content field, especially in secondary ed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Elementary teachers still get masters degrees in education

You can also still get a masters in sped or ELL or counseling.

[knitter4democracy]

36. That's true. It depends on the state, though.

I remember Ohio working toward eliminating the education master's degree when I lived there--for everyone, elementary people included. It made no sense, in all honesty, considering how so many of us couldn't afford starting our master's within five years of graduating college and how few master's programs existed in the state for certain areas. How would a physics teacher get a master's in physics? How would a classical languages teacher get a master's in that when the only program in the state is at Ohio State, and not everyone lives near there? A friend of mine was in that boat. She died, may God rest her soul, before dealing with it, but it was really annoying.

I just don't understand how the people at the state level think we can start our master's degrees while still paying off college loans and looking for jobs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Yes

[pitohui]

6. most private schools in most towns are really bad

they're not about giving kids an education, they're about making sure your children doesn't meet any black kids other than the "token"

in new orleans to my surprise there are actually some catholic schools where kids get an education equal to or better than a good public school -- in most of the south, though, a private school is just a place for racists to hang out, not a place to teach anything

even here a "christian" school is not about education, it's about ignorance and racism

yes you don't have to qualify to teach public school to teach in a "christian" school, i've known people who took those jobs who didn't even have a degree! no wonder the pay/benefits are shite -- a public school teacher these days either must have a master's degree or be working toward a master's degree, many private school teachers don't have the ability to get that much education for themselves

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. The ones I attended were excellent

[otohara]

7. My Town, Private Schools Are Very Good

most grads go on to very good colleges.

My son went to one of the top private schools - preschool-8th grade - because of his excellent education, public high school was a breeze. He credits the private school for making college easier too.

[seabeyond]

9. ye, yep, yep and i found most teachers interest was for the kids, BUT

i agree. i had my children in private to middle of fourth grade because i was conditioned to believe the "horrors" of public. as my oldest progressed, well, in private i say academically public schools were kicking the private schools arse.

my son was advancing so well because of HIS ability, lol, not the schools.

i put boys in public adn have been happy with the academics of the four public schools they have used.

[TBF]

16. I've seen studies in which they find there really isn't much difference on average -

but I believe that is because they are averaging in the small religious schools with other college preparatory schools. It's the same with public schools - they vary by neighborhood (often dependent on tax base).

[Scruffy1]

21. All of the studies I've seen

show the same results from public and private schools if they are given the same students. While there are some poor performing schools in both sectors and above average ones too, whether a school is public or private is not a deterrmining factor in the outcomes.

[senseandsensibility]

29. The private schools where I live send any student

who doesn't learn easily and quickly back to the public school. They actually kick them out, and are within their rights to do so. We, meanwhile, are asked to fix the problem they've helped to create and are held accountable for it. We must test the children sent to us by the private schools and be judged for their performance. The private schools are not required to test.

[knitter4democracy]

37. The schools I taught in couldn't afford to do that.

It's about enrollment numbers, and if someone's parents are at the top of the sliding scale, there's no way on God's green earth that principal would kick that student out unless s/he burned the school down or worse. I fought hard to get a student out at my first school, a college prep Catholic girls school, and it just plain didn't happen.

The high schools do test--they're held accountable by SAT and ACT scores and their state scores are published along with everyone else's. We sweated those dang ACTs every year I was in the Catholic schools, hoping we'd be higher than the area school districts. When scores dipped, so did enrollment.