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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 02:56 PM
Original message
WSJ: 10 Things Charter Schools Won't Tell You
Edited on Mon Dec-06-10 03:03 PM by madfloridian
Hat tip to the Schools Matter blog for noticing this article at the WSJ.

Ten Things Charter Schools Won't Tell You, and All Ten You Never Expected to Read in the Wall Street Journal

How this piece by Sarah Morgan ever got past the corporate ed cheerleaders on the WSJ editorial board, we probably will never know. But somehow it did, and here it is presented, with only brief interruptions:

1. We're no better than public schools.

For all the hype about a few standout schools, charter schools in general aren’t producing better results than traditional public schools. A national study by the Center for Research on Education Outcomes at Stanford found that while 17% of charter schools produced better results than neighborhood public schools, 37% were significantly worse, and the rest were no different. (Not that public schools are perfect, as many parents know. See our earlier story, “10 Things Your School District Won’t Tell You,” for more.)


Here are some more of the 10 things they won't tell you from the WSJ.

10 Things Charter Schools Won't Tell You

2. Our teachers aren’t certified.

According to data from the National Center for Education Statistics, charter-school teachers are, on average, younger and less likely to hold state certification than teachers in traditional public schools. In a 2000 survey, 92% of public school teachers held state certification, compared to 79% of charter school teachers. A 2008 survey found that 32% of charter school teachers were under 30, compared to 17% of traditional public school teachers. Charter schools often recruit from organizations like Teach for America that provide non-traditional paths into the profession, and more-experienced teachers who already have jobs in traditional public schools may have little incentive to give up the protection of tenure.


Two points to make. Soon there will be no "protection of tenure" for experienced teachers. Also KIPP school leaders actually are tied to TFA in many ways. In fact the head of KIPP schools is married to one of the leaders of TFA...its founder Wendy Kopp.

In fact as Barth points out, two of the KIPP leaders started out as TFA teachers.

Philanthropy News Digest: What is KIPP and why was it created?

Richard Barth: KIPP is a national network of open-enrollment public schools that prepares children for success in college and in life. It was created in 1994 by two teachers, Mike Feinberg and Dave Levin, who launched a fifth-grade public school program in inner-city Houston after completing their Teach For America commitment. The following year, Feinberg remained in Houston to lead KIPP Academy Middle School, and Levin returned home to New York City to establish KIPP Academy in the South Bronx.

KIPP News


Now to thing #3 that charter schools don't tell.

3. Plus, they keep quitting.

As many as one in four charter school teachers leave every year, according to a 2007 study by Gary Miron, a professor of education at Western Michigan University, and other researchers at the Great Lakes Center for Education Research and Practice. That’s about double the typical teacher turnover rate in traditional public schools. Charter schools typically pay teachers less than traditional public schools do, and require longer hours, Miron says. Meanwhile, charter school administrators earn more than their school-district counterparts, which can also make teachers feel underpaid, he says. The odds of a teacher leaving the profession altogether are 130% higher at charter schools than traditional public schools, according to a 2010 study by the National Center on School Choice at Vanderbilt University. That study also found that much of this teacher attrition was related to dissatisfaction with working conditions.


The article mentions that children with disabilities are often short-changed in charter schools, paraphrasing.

Also mentioned is the blurring of the lines separating church and state in charter schools, while the line is clarified in public schools.

This #6 very much should concern all of us, but too many Democrats won't admit it is happening because the charter school movement is a Democratic movement as well as a Republican one.

6. We don’t need to tell you where your tax dollars are going.

An investigation by Philadelphia’s City Controller earlier this year uncovered widespread financial mismanagement among the city’s charter schools, including undisclosed “related party” transactions where friends and family of school management were paid for various services, people listed as working full time at more than one school, individuals writing checks to themselves, and even a $30,000 bill from a beach resort charged to a school.

Financial scandals have come to light in schools around the country, but what’s more troubling, says advocate Leonie Haimson of Class Size Matters in New York City, is that charter schools have opposed state audits of their finances.


Number 10 is about blaming teachers for everything, and they give a quote by Diane Ravitch: "The narrative that blames teachers for problems that are rooted in poverty “is demoralizing teachers by the thousands,” Ravitch says. “And you don’t improve education by demoralizing the people who have to do the work every day.”
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. kr. the fact that charters are standing on the principle that they're immune to state audits
is very troubling.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. It's not just troubling. It's a sign of fraud.
anybody who won't be accountable to the exact same rules as everybody else wants that to hide for a reason.

I'm not saying that "you've got nothing to fear if you've got nothing to hide." That's the BS used by the right to justify invasions of privacy and double standards that subject one group to More rules. That isn't the case here. We're talking about applying the exact same rules that public schools have to deal with. No more and no less.

On top of that, when money is involved, anyone who wants more money and the ability to hide what they do with it is up to no good. Always.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. You are right.
Edited on Mon Dec-06-10 04:07 PM by madfloridian
And it's troubling how many either defend these new "reforms" or just ignore the problems.
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pmorlan1 Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Smartmoney.com not WSJ
The article is on Smartmoney.com not the WSJ website.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
29. Look at the top left. Says WSJ.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. kr. the fact that charters are standing on the principle that they're immune to state audits
is very troubling.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Maybe an accidental dupe, but this is the kind of thing that NEEDS repeating! K&R
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Glad you mentioned that. I thought I had bolded that part..
but I didn't so I went back and did it.

It's an arrogant stance.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. If they are immune to state audits, then why is mine audited by ..
the state every year?

And, my daughter's charter school IS a public school, that was chartered by school district personnel. The teacher with whom we meet monthly is a public employee and is part of a teacher's union.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Your daughter's charter is not so bad. The problem is that
many of the charter schools are not properly controlled by the state and local authorities.

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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. That may be true ...
what I object to is the blanket statements made re charter schools here - without anyone questioning the veracity of these global statements.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Well...
Not all states have the same laws regarding such audits.

Not all charters are required to be audited by the state.

Not all charters are audited according to the rules that public schools are required.

Certain private charters operate in a manner such that some of their business expenses and budget can be considered proprietary.

These are not public institutions and are not as subject to the scrutiny or rules that public schools are. One of the biggest problem with Public schools has been the proliferation and creep towards greater levels of money spent on administrators and administration over teachers and education. Charters actually charge more in administration costs and also scrape some of the education budget for profit.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Once again, my daughter's school has....
LESS in administration costs (we homestudy).

So, let's not make blanket statements which are untrue. Also, my daughter's school is a non-profit operation run by a school district.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Please quote the "blanket statement" to which you refer.
I don't see one.

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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. It is below.
Edited on Wed Dec-08-10 12:15 AM by Maat
"Charters actually charge more in administration costs and also scrape some of the education budget for profit."

This is not true for the charter with which I am familiar.

Here's another ....

"... the fact that charters are standing on the principle that they're immune to state audits ..."

My daughter's charter is not immune to state audits, but is audited regularly. I personally was advised of the results.

Now, I'm done with this thread. Have a nice evening, folks.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Err..
Actually you started out by arguing-by exception in thrusting out a anecdote to the forefront of this argument, an argument that you really ought to be aware is more about for-profit charter schools than purely public ones.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. So...
You are claiming some exception because you have a special 'home study' charter school your daughter. Well obviously if you don't have to foot the full use cost of a building you may be able to claim some savings?

You are claiming that that this charter is a not a profit charter? Is it not-for-profit, non-profit, or public?

There are differences in definition based on state and federal law.

Do you recognize the existence of for-profit charter schools and their lobbying efforts? Are you aware that you providing flack protection for them?
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Yes, there are for-profit charters.
There are also public and not-for-profit charters.

I am not providing protection for anyone.

Yes, the school's administrative costs are very low.

Have a nice day. Bye.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Great job!
You answered all the rhetorical questions perfectly while ignoring any of the substantive ones.

Are you deliberately dodging after such a selective and artful accusation about my generalizing?

I do not think you are discussing this topic honestly.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Funny - I don't think that YOU are 'discussing the topic honestly.'
Edited on Wed Dec-08-10 09:22 PM by Maat
The fact is that people GENERALIZED in their comments about charters on this thread. They over-generalized, as they were WRONG about ALL charters being this or that. That is what is significant to me.

Have a nice day.

You've helped me understand why I no longer want to be a donor to the site.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. To The Greatest Page!
Bookmarked, kicked, and sent on to others. Mad, you should be the education secretary. duncan't needs to be replaced, yesterday!
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. K & R nt
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R'd!
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callous taoboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. K & R
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wait, the Wall Street Journal?
This was in the Wall Street Journal?

If so, how sad is it that the Wall Street Journal has a more sensible, liberal stance on this than the Department of Education in a Democratic Administration?
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. Jaw drops. They still do reporting at the WSJ!
I thought that would end with Murdoch ownership.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Surprised me also.
You don't see that often at all.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. D'oh!
I didn't see that you had posted this already. Mea Culpa! and k&r
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R ! So shocking. //nt
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bluethruandthru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. I hope the president and many of our so-called Dem leaders read this. n/t
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. it might give them ideas...
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. k n r
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teacher gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
19. I was pleasantly surprised
(astonished actually) that the Wall Street Journal published this! Quite uncharacteristic of them.

Anyway, here's a kick.
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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. A hearty K&R
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. NIce catch
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. K&R
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