Kweli4Real
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:28 AM
Original message |
To all those on this "He Caved" trip ... |
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Let me ask a couple of questions:
Do you have a job? If not, are you really saying that you and your family would rather starve, than give millionaire more money?
If you do have a job, are you really saying that you would rather let others starve so that you (or the President or the Party or whomever) can make a bold, principled statement?
And finally, one of the biggest criticisms I/we have had about the teapartiers is that they are so willing to deny other, what they would claim for themselves. For those placing principle (but really pride and ego) over people ... living, breathing people, are we/you really any different than the hypocrisy filled teapartiers?
No one likes the deal that was cut; but I would ask that before you write your scathing "He Caved" posts, consider it is easy to stand on principle when you cannot see yourself suffering the negative effects of your stance.
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DainBramaged
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:29 AM
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Scurrilous
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:30 AM
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Cosmocat
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
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and I like him a lot ...
Folded bullets to an off suit 2 and 7 ...
The level of cave on this cannot be overstated ...
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PBS Poll-435
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Tue Dec-07-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
53. He caved! He caved! He caved! |
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Just wanted in on the action.
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Hello_Kitty
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:31 AM
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3. I'm unemployed and don't qualify for UI |
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But the one part of this deal I like is the UI extensions that will help other people in my position so you can shove the guilt trip. Why don't you pay attention to all the valid reasons people have for being pissed about this and address them instead of engaging in cheap emotional blackmail?
Unrec.
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area51
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
MurrayDelph
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
38. I'm unemployed and DO qualify for the extension to UI |
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and I still wish he hadn't caved.
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GoCubsGo
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
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I'd rather see that money being put toward putting people, like myself, back to work. And, I'm sure all those whose families might allegedly "starve" would rather have decent permanent incomes than collect the pittance unemployment pays.
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MadHound
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:31 AM
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4. Sorry, but Obama didn't have to give away the farm |
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He could have taken care of the unemployed by using the unspent stimulus funds. < http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9710114> Instead, he gave away the farm, for no good reason. The real kicker on this is that McConnell is making noise about forcing Obama to pay for the UI extensions out of the unspent stimulus funds anyway.
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Jackpine Radical
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:32 AM
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5. You do realize, don't you, that the extensions do not apply |
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to those who have been out of work for 99 weeks or more?
You know that, right?
You think we're supposed to be happy that he managed to buy a little time for the newly unemployed, but nothing for those whose jobs crashed 99 weeks abo?
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alfredo
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Tue Dec-07-10 12:39 PM
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45. I think he knows the deal will falter. All it will take is one |
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Republican Senator to gum up the works. There are some who will not accept a temporary extension of the tax cuts. We will have to wait and see. Bachmann is going to try to torpedo the deal in the house.
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DearAbby
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
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I love how Bachman is becoming the Joe Lieberman of the GOP
*Makes me smile
:evilgrin:
*Makes me smile
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alfredo
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Wed Dec-08-10 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #74 |
75. She's had a taste of power, and it is like blood in the |
Egnever
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Tue Dec-07-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
51. Yes you should be happy those people were helped |
Jackpine Radical
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Tue Dec-07-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
54. Right. It's all about me. |
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Actually, I have been quite fortunate in my life and have never collected unemployment.
But I sure as hell have a lot of compassion for the long-term unemployed. My point is that Obama got far too little for what he traded away. And it now looks like Mitch is gonna make him pay for it out of the unspent stimulus funds, which he could have done in the first place with no crap like this giveaway happening.
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Dappleganger
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
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I keep saying this and nobody seems to pay attention. This bill completely ignores the current 99'ers.
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aquart
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:33 AM
Original message |
Starving is off the table. THIS YEAR. |
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But, because of that huge giveaway, it is on the table for next year because food stamp programs are already being cut back in state after state.
So, yes, HE CAVED. My mom has started calling him Spaghetti.
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LibraLiz1973
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message |
10. Exactly. This is a double whammy. |
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People are so stupid they aren't noticing all the state budget cuts that are making this an even worse "deal".
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Jackpine Radical
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Tue Dec-07-10 01:59 PM
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50. Starving is ON the table for those unemployed more than 99 weeks. |
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Edited on Tue Dec-07-10 01:59 PM by Jackpine Radical
That is the greatest shame. Even 13 months of UE for 2 years of payoffs to the rich pales by comparison.
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LibraLiz1973
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message |
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He campaigned on this. Promise broken. Again.
We don't even TRY to fight back against the Rethugs.
In fact, I think that had Obama said Fuck no to their shit agenda, we would be in a position of power. We could have made this what it NEEDS to be: a war on criminally uncaring republican assholes. Do you REALLY think they would have let 6 MILLION people lose their benefits? That was a guarantee to lose in 2012. They would have caved. Sad thing is, we caved first. As usual.
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Goblinmonger
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:33 AM
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7. The party in power let those two unrelated things be tied together. |
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They aren't. They shouldn't be. The unemployment benefits should have been extended and the tax cuts not. That isn't impossible.
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GrpCaptMandrake
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #7 |
28. That's worth reiterating! |
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These two things were UTTERLY unrelated, and the President, via profound weakness, allowed them to be fraudulently conjoined.
It is the epitome of hypocrisy to think that every time the struggling working class in this country gets a crumb, the rich must get a twelve course meal. It simply isn't true.
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GrpCaptMandrake
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Tue Dec-07-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
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Edited on Tue Dec-07-10 12:02 PM by GrpCaptMandrake
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Supersedeas
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Tue Dec-07-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
40. a great question for the leadership in Congress to field |
Bok_Tukalo
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message |
8. For all those who wanted a second stimulus, you now may have one |
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It is just the opposite of the last in the tax cuts vs spending increases category. But it will probably fall just as 800 billion hard on the American Full Faith & Credit Card.
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ladjf
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:34 AM
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11. If the rich were taxed at a fair progressive rate, the debt would |
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disappear, jobs would be created and the middle class would begin to expand again. This compromise is totally counter productive for the American people even though it does have some help to the currently unemployed.
As long as the rich keep getting larger and larger percentages of the wealth, the people are going down the tubes to abject poverty.
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midnight
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:34 AM
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12. The questions you ask don't begin to show the disparity impact |
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of making people choose food and more profits for the elite or more profits for the elite and no food.... Can't we expect something more from our elected Democrat leaders?
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BlueJac
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:35 AM
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13. I don't have a job............. |
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haven't for years now. I want all tax cuts ended. This Republican bullshit is destroying this country.
Yes he caved, and that is his MO. Obama has no balls or he is a Republican wannabe! Don't tell me we can't have an extension of unemployment and end the tax cuts at the same time. We still control congress and the Presidency. There is no need to put things together so someone can leverage you into their position, period.
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PassingFair
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:36 AM
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14. "Trip"....you're tripping if you can't see this for what it is. |
Dawgs
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:37 AM
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15. I have a job and I'd like to keep it. I'd also like to see those on unemployment have one. |
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Widening the gap between the rich and poor does nothing to create one new job. In fact, it makes it worse.
And, why do you assume this is the only way to get what we want?
There are other, much better, options.
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EstimatedProphet
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:38 AM
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17. You caught us. That's exactly what we're saying. |
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We're all secretly hoping that everyone who is unemployed starves to death in the streets.
Had you looked into this, you would have realized that the original plan that went through the House would have given EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY A TAX CUT. All of them. Every one of them. The repubs canceled that, because they want money only for themselves.
But instead, you decided to use a cheap ad hominem attack against us because you disagree. Nice job.
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jp11
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:46 AM
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18. Way to make assumptions. |
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Got a job, if I didn't I wouldn't say I and my family want to starve over giving millionaires more money. I can further add I refuse the idea that the only option if I am unemployed is give millionaires a tax break to not starve.
Again got a job, no I wouldn't want others to starve so that a statement can be made, reject that the only way not to let them starve is to cave.
Thanks for trying to say I am like hypocrisy filled members of the teaparty and that I place pride and ego over real people.
I'd ask you to keep your wild assumptions based on nothing but your own ideas to yourself since you seem to only accept your own views on what is/was possible negating anything else you don't like.
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Name removed
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:52 AM
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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Loge23
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:53 AM
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Lest anyone forget, the country is in an enormous hole - partly dug by funding a ultra-modern military force that spends significant sums on chasing people in caves (mostly unsuccessfully, I may add). There used to be many threads on these pages pointing out how the Idiot Bush waged these wars without the sense of a shared sacrifice from the American people (except, of course, for those who actually fight this thing). We just bailed (OK, caved) on installing that sense of shared responsibility. The ill-advised and unfunded tax cuts were meant to be temporary and so they should of been - all of them. BY all accounts, the upper tier cuts (>250K) will add an unnecessary and thoroughly avoidable estimated $60B a year to the deficit. That portion could of been the horse-trading for the unemployment benefits. Instead, in his ever-present attempt to be all things to all people and avoid conflict at all costs, Obama has stamped his own seal on what will eventually be remembered in history as where it all went wrong for the U.S.
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hay rick
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:54 AM
Response to Original message |
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And pay it again in 13 months when this deal expires. There are no good choices here, but I think this is one of the worst. My wife collected for 99 weeks and now gets nothing. I understand what having the benefits means to a family and what not having them means.
Accepting the payoff to help the unemployed for the next 13 months is also an agreement to allow the continued looting of our society by the uber-rich and adds increased-deficit fuel to the cut-Social-Security fire that the reich wing is busy building. Taking a stand in the future will only be harder and more expensive.
Yeah, he caved.
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SidDithers
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:56 AM
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22. Always easier to be principled with someone else's life, eh?...nt |
Kweli4Real
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
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And then get all offended when someone calls you on it.
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Davis_X_Machina
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:57 AM
Response to Original message |
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...demands, and claims innocent victims, but in the long sweep of history, their sacrifice is necessary, if that's what it takes to finish off the GOP.
I am sure if we asked them, those so inconvenienced would admit as much.
One question -- what's the best memorial to them? Commemorative stamp, or something tasteful and not too showy, on the Mall in Washington?
I'm torn.
Lenin is alive, well, and posting on DU.
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rurallib
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:57 AM
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24. Jesus Christ. The Admin had 2 years to prepare for this |
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and they let themselves get held hostage????
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EmeraldCityGrl
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:32 AM
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29. Riiight. Notice when these developments occur, Obama always |
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Edited on Tue Dec-07-10 11:33 AM by EmeraldCityGrl
sounds as if he didn't see it coming. I guess with everything we know about the American and Global financial meltdown, it never occurred to Obama the unemployment rate would still be high.Surprise, surprise, surprise.
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closeupready
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:06 AM
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EmeraldCityGrl
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:29 AM
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26. Using pathetic emotional blackmail to cover OB's ass. |
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Let's reward the very people responsible for the starving masses. Repukes sold American's security during the bush years when they escalated the Obama wars ( yes they are now his wars) and hoarded the wealth partially with the soon to be Obama Tax Cuts. A strong leader with a long term plan for recovery doesn't resort to this type of bribery. Obama is not a leader, he's a spokesman for the corporate elite.
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TBF
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #26 |
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:35 AM
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33. Agree. I've been posting that everywhere |
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We became emotionally blackmailed by our own rhetoric about 2 million unemployed left to starve to death at Christmas if they don't get their benefits extended. I've been through this process. Each time I got kicked off because the Republicans wanted to grandstand, benefits were extended within a week or two *retroactively*. (Full disclosure: I face losing my benefits if they are not extended.)
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WhaTHellsgoingonhere
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
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Yesterday was December 6th. Congress hasn't yet to go on recess.
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treestar
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Tue Dec-07-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
48. This is a reward to Republicans? |
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Hey, they'd have more starving masses. No unemployment at all. No taxes for the rich. To Republicans, the rich deserve it all because they work hard.
What bribery? The US Senate is subject to bribery if the opposing party does anything? Does this apply when the Democrats do the same thing? When Bush was President, did you expect the Senate Democrats to do what he wanted or be guilty of "bribery?"
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emilyg
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Tue Dec-07-10 02:07 PM
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Individualist
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:30 AM
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neverforget
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:33 AM
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30. The unemployment benefits expire in 13 months so he has to renegotiate |
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this bullshit again! What are the Republicans going to get out of him then? And the topping on the this shit sandwich is that the tax cuts expire in 2 years! What a deal! :eyes:
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Iggo
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:34 AM
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WilliamPitt
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:36 AM
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DainBramaged
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Tue Dec-07-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
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I agree (hows the non-smoking going?)
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WilliamPitt
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Tue Dec-07-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
DainBramaged
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Tue Dec-07-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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spanone
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:37 AM
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donheld
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:42 AM
Response to Original message |
37. So that's what it's come to? |
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Give the billionaires more money or we're gonna let the peasants starve.
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tpsbmam
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Tue Dec-07-10 12:38 PM
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43. How about Obama fucking fight it out instead of CAVING like he's always done? |
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How about he shout from the rooftops about what the Rethuglicans were advocating and why? Why was every Democrat not at microphones in their states calling the state's Rethuglicans out by name and informing voters about the Rethuglican ploy to keep taxes low for the megawealthy......and themselves?
Yea, he fucking caved.
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Kweli4Real
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
65. Isn't that a little backwards ... |
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Wouldn't the approach best be for PRESIDENT Obama shouting from the rooftops about what the Rethuglicans were advocating and why? (which he has done ... as much as a president can do and maintain the dignity of the office)
And then for every Democrat not at microphones in their states calling the state's Rethuglicans out by name and informing voters about the Rethuglican ploy to keep taxes low for the megawealthy......and themselves? (Which they haven't come close to doing until today)
And then, based on the first two occuring, PRESIDENT Obama can fucking fight it out instead of having to compromise.
A sitting president can raise holy hell when he has 100% support of his party's delegation's support. But a sitting president cannot afford to lose a fight, especially when he loses because his own party doesn't support him.
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KansasVoter
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Tue Dec-07-10 12:40 PM
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46. Wow, short sighted as usual! |
Kweli4Real
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #46 |
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reality-based, as usual.
Millions of starving people don't give a damn about the hundreds eating steak. They can only afford that luxury once they are no longer facing starvation.
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treestar
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Tue Dec-07-10 12:41 PM
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47. They are convinced of their simplistic middle school playground metaphor |
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That had Obama just clocked them all and beaten them to a pulp, they'd "respect" him and presumably, now be willing to vote in single payer, 100% corporate taxation, an immediate end to all war - Republicans would do that, because they would respect the President's toughness if he just walked away from any deal.
If things are that simple, they don't have to read too much and worry about too many details or stressful balancing of factors and use of human judgment. Kind of like the way the far right looks at things.
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Kweli4Real
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
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that the left seems to want, not a president or a democratic leader, but a dictator or a messiah.
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Kweli4Real
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:57 PM
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that the left seems to want, not a president or a democratic leader, but a dictator or a messiah.
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Kweli4Real
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:57 PM
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that the left seems to want, not a president or a democratic leader, but a dictator or a messiah.
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Tierra_y_Libertad
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Tue Dec-07-10 12:45 PM
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49. Would you prefer, "Surrendered"?, "Sold out"? "Folded"? "Collaborated"? |
BzaDem
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Tue Dec-07-10 08:37 PM
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55. I think the problem is the incorrect description, not the word used. n/t |
Rex
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Tue Dec-07-10 10:58 PM
Response to Original message |
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As a zillion other people here have pointed out.
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RetroLounge
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:00 PM
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61. unrec for more BS spin |
DearAbby
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:02 PM
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63. You assume the GOP wouldn't have been pressured |
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to cave themselves? Only Democrats bend over and grab their ankles correct? You don't believe the GOP would have been pressured by Public Opinion?
How do you stand up to Bullies? Do you bend over and grab your ankles or do you phucking stand up to them once and for all?
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Kweli4Real
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:29 PM
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69. Would you be willing to bet [b]your[/b] ability to eat and the roof ... |
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over your head on them "caving"?
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FrenchieCat
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:05 PM
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64. Actually, he's been braver than most........ |
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He knew the "base" would be totally outraged, and yet, he thought more of the millions (98% of Americans)that will be affected by the tax cuts expiring as well as those who would be denied unemployment extensions.
The cowards are the ones that whine on forum boards, and in essence don't really care, but only pretend to.
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Greyhound
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:27 PM
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68. Could you please cram a couple more false analogies and logical fallacies into your post? |
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Edited on Tue Dec-07-10 11:27 PM by Greyhound
And no I don't have income, but starvation is not the only alternative.
And it is the lack of principle that has yielded this disaster. And yes, I have personally suffered an absurd number of negative consequences for standing on mine.
:kick: & U
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Kweli4Real
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #68 |
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and yet you have internet access. Yeah, right. I guess the public libraries are open late in your part of the world.
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Greyhound
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Wed Dec-08-10 12:34 AM
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76. Yes. No income and internet access. right here in the house. |
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I'll give you every detail you want just as soon as you put your name and address on the board.
Oh, and yes the computer is mine, and I've got clothes too. I guess I'm not really poor, right?
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Greyhound
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Wed Dec-08-10 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #72 |
77. Now, about this BS post you made, got any answer? |
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Maybe you want to start with how there's nothing between employment and starvation? No?
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Greyhound
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Fri Dec-10-10 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #72 |
79. What? Post your reich-wing crap and then run away? How typical. n/t |
Jakes Progress
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:29 PM
Response to Original message |
70. If you think that your silly analogies are real |
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then you probably couldn't have done any better than Obama did.
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Kweli4Real
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #70 |
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Ask the next person whose U/C benefits are set to continue how well PRESIDENT Obama has done. And then ask him/her whether they would trade this small measure of security in order that the wealthy don't get a tax extension.
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Jakes Progress
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Tue Dec-07-10 11:30 PM
Response to Original message |
71. If you think that your silly analogies are real |
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then you probably couldn't have done any better than Obama did.
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Milo_Bloom
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Wed Dec-08-10 12:41 AM
Response to Original message |
78. Oh stop with this silly spin already. |
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This UI issue has come up several times in the past couple of years and each time the GOP caved without the dems having to give up ANYTHING.
Do you understand that the GOP had MORE to lose in letting UI expire than the dems?
Do you realize that extending benefits for 13 months only maintains the status quo?
He gave them EVERYTHING and got NOTHING THEY WEREN'T GOING TO GIVE ANYWAY in return.
in short.. HE CAVED!
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Fri Apr 19th 2024, 03:41 PM
Response to Original message |