Teens in U.S. Rank 25th on Math Test, Trail in Science, Reading

[FarCenter]

Dec. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Fifteen-year-old students in the U.S. ranked 25th of 34 countries on an international math test and scored in the middle of the pack in science and reading, raising concerns the U.S. isn’t prepared to succeed in the global economy.

Teenagers from South Korea and Finland led in almost all academic categories on the 2009 Program for International Student Assessment, according to the Paris-based Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development, which represents 34 countries. U.S. students ranked 17th in science and 14th in reading. The U.S. government considers the OECD test one of the most comprehensive measures of international achievement.

http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601010&sid=am1vitzKTF6M

[knitter4democracy]

1. Two countries that track students, I see.

Put our top students against their top students, and we always do well. We actually try to educate everyone, though, when others don't or have different education tracks for different levels of students.

[w8liftinglady]

3. That is a really good point.I have a question about standardized tests.

My partner feels that using them as a means for funding is a bad thing,as it changes the methods that teachers use to get to children from different backgrounds.Do most teachers favor these,and is he the exception?I'm just curious as to whether this may be part of our problem.

[knitter4democracy]

5. I don't know a single teacher who likes them.

Standardized tests test rote memory, for the most part, and are amazingly biased. It's impossible to write, say, a really good reading test without having some cultural bias in there of some kind. We end up spending too much time teaching test taking skills, making sure to hammer the test objectives over and over again, and that means less time for real education and divergent thinking to take place.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. We are testing this week.

All other learning stops. The schedule is changed. So kids don't get their regularly scheduled music and art classes. Lunch schedule is changed also. It's a mess. And the tests are horrible. 30 multiple choice questions and 2 short answer. Tests in Reading, Math and Science. And when the results come in a few weeks from now, we will put them up on a 'Data Wall' that goes right by our classroom door so everyone knows how many kids passed and how many failed. On a 32 question mostly fill in the bubble multiple choice test.

[Ichingcarpenter]

2. 2+2 = 5

Orwell's protagonist, Winston Smith, uses the phrase to wonder if the State might declare "two plus two equals five" as a fact; he ponders whether, if everybody believes in it, does that make it true? Smith writes, "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." Later in the novel, Smith attempts to use doublethink to teach himself that the statement "2 + 2 = 5" is true, or at least as true as any other answer one could come up with.


Eventually, while undergoing electroshock torture, Winston declared that he saw five fingers when in fact he only saw four ("Four, five, six - in all honesty I don't know"). The Inner Party interrogator of thought-criminals, O'Brien, says of the mathematically false statement that control over physical reality is unimportant; so long as one controls their own perceptions to what the Party wills, then any corporeal act is possible, in accordance with the principles of doublethink ("Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once")

[Newest Reality]

4. What does this multi-decade trend imply?

That the dumbing down is a failure or a success?

Does one focus merely on teachers and schools, or does it make more sense to go up a few levels and consider the system itself and infer what goals might be evident in the results?

What kind of future would this system be predicting? What, (especially in the light of the economic debacle) are we educating our youth for, now?

[knitter4democracy]

6. Just that we test everyone and they don't.

Now, if what you really want to have happen is the seriously tracked educational system like the ones mentioned in the link, that's a different conversation.

[FarCenter]

7. The assessment is done using a random sample of 15 year olds

There is a rigorous set of rules for selecting a sample of schools and then a sample of 15 year olds within each school.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Once again. We educate ALL. Most of the other countries do not.

It's not that hard to understand. This test compares a random sampling of ALL of our kids to a random sampling of their best and brightest.

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. Oh.... Really?

Care to back that up.... or is that just a Kansas though?

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. I'm wondering how many times this needs to be explained in one thread

No back up is necessary. In the US, we educate all of our kids. And all are tested. (This test was a random sampling of all of our kids.)

In the other countries we are being compared to, kids are tracked. That means only those deemed worthy of college are given an academic curriculum. The others are in vocational programs and not tested for academics.

In other words, this test is comparing a random sampling of all of our kids to a random sampling of their college bound kids. That's apples and oranges. Statistically invalid. And cited repeatedly in the last day or so by salivating education reformers.

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. I disagree

Its not like the Scandinavians don't educate everyone
and they beat us in all polls and we spend more money.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Ahem

While there is little grading and in essence no tracking in Finland, ninth grade does become a divider for Finnish students. Students are separated for the last three years of high school based on grades. Under the current structure, 53% will go to academic high school and the rest enter vocational school.
http://www.openeducation.net/2008/03/10/several-lessons-to-be-learned-from-the-finnish-school-system/

And in Korea:

For students who do not wish a college education, vocational schools specializing in fields such as technology, agriculture or finance are available, in which the students are employed right after graduation. Around 30% of high school students are in vocational high schools. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_South_Korea

I am assuming that I don't need to remind you that here in the US, we don't separate our kids into academic and vocational tracks.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. I really enjoy your World View on education

I'm sure your opinions and views on this subject is relevant.

I guess we will beat the Soviets into space.

Geez..... I remember this parent as teacher that keeped their child Home Schooled and then went to my class and asked

WHY IS MY KID SO BEHIND ACCORDING TO YOUR STANDARDS?

I only had 10mins.......Until the next appointment, which I wasn't paid for working that late at night for free, but loved being there.

You have no Idea.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. And this test is taken before the end of the Finnish 9th grade

It's taken at 15 years, 3 months to 16 years 2 months.

Peruskoulu / Grundskola (primary and lower secondary school)
Forms 1-6 Age 7-12
Forms 7-9 Age 13-16

http://www.oph.fi/download/124284_Education_system_of_Finland.pdf

[Egnever]

12. You just make this stuff up as you go along?

And what do you get from spreading dsisinformation?

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/11/40/44455820.pdf


"Since the aim of PISA is to assess the cumulative yield of education systems at an age where compulsory
schooling is still largely universal, testing focuses on 15-year-olds enrolled in both school-based and workbased
educational programmes. Between 4 500 and 10 000 students from at least 150 schools are typically
tested in each country, providing a good sampling base from which to break down the results according to a
range of student characteristics."

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Egnever]

14. I really find it disconcerting

So many on this site just unwilling to look at the facts or just make them up out of whole cloth. I suppose that in and of itself is a testament to the state of our education system.

And of course once confronted with the facts the poster disappears.

[knitter4democracy]

20. I'd still want to see their data.

For example, in Russia, kids who want to be doctors have to be in the right schools from Form 1 on (about first grade here). They're tested in preschool and tracked from there. How do they decide which schools to test? I'd like to read more on that.

[readmoreoften]

22. That is the most absurd argument I've ever heard. Are you really insinuating that

kids in Europe don't get to go to college unless they're "the best and brightest"? Right. And what does this has to do with 15 year olds. Are you insinuating that only a small # of 15 year olds in Finland are learning to read and do math, while everyone else is doing Janitorial Studies? Give me a break.

[spin]

15. It sounds to me that pouring more money into our failed educational system ...

is not going to solve the problem.

Perhaps we need to study the counties that do better than us and find out why they are successful.

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. I said this years ago.... spending money on sports

in your High Schools is Spartan........and Stupid.
and so many other Michael Vick educational learnings stupidity.

You reward him....... and his college did too

Scholar....ship

I think not on sports..... even look at the word how
now you can get a 'sports scholarship'



GO TO A FUCKING COLLEGE THAT ONLY DOES SPORTS
OR GO TO ONE THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THAT SPORTS SHIT

I guess they have those somewhere...

You know how this college sports have got out of control
it didn't use to be that way with education don't you?

I guess not when we still say...... he can get a sports .... Scholar....ship.

[Swamp Rat]

18. Doesn't matter, as long as they can pick strawberries, flip hamburgers, and mop floors.

These are important skills as we head into the next Dark Ages, Part Deux.

[spin]

21. Soon Americans will be sneaking across the border ...

to do jobs Mexicans won't do.

[woo me with science]

25. K&R. nt