Democratic Underground RETURNS to being truly "Underground," I guess.

[NoodleyAppendage]

We've been pegged as the "professional left," and the "loud left," as well as other derisive monikers to put us in our place. And, for what? Because we actually thought we were getting a progressive Democratic candidate in 2008? Because we hold FAST to our progressive and liberal ideals?

How dare we! Who do we think we are?

...well according to our President (for now), we should just shut up and take it. Because we progressives and liberals with our high-minded ideals are just too stupid to understand Obama's "long game" strategy, we just need to trust our leader. We just need to fall into lockstep with the Democratic caucus. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

I'm a member of this group because I choose NOT to fall into lockstep.

I'm a member of the underground because I choose to fight for my ideals and common sense.

I will not apologize to this President, who has betrayed his party. I will not be anyone's lap dog.

J

[villager]

1. The "U" in "DU" had been forgotten for a couple years..

now, with so many blinders being ripped off in all directions, all at once, it seems that "second letter" is reasserting itself...

[notadmblnd]

6. you can say that again!

+1

[Le Taz Hot]

72. Thank the goddess for that! n/t

[eleny]

2. Yup, selling out is a value to some and when we don't they're aghast at us

[NoodleyAppendage]

5. If part of his "long game" is to create a liberal tea party of sorts, then he's a genius.

That's the only saving grace move I can see from a Democratic President deriding his base. If he's hoping for a liberal tea party movement to bolster 2012 election victories, then it is truly a "long game" strategy that he made more real today by his actions.

J

[eleny]

8. I don't see how you get people to follow you by kicking them in the teeth

[NoodleyAppendage]

16. I agree. I'm just grasping at straws to lighten the blow.

I do, however, think that a liberal/progressive grassroots political movement is needed.

[Dappleganger]

46. There are people here who are claiming

it's for our own good. And to stand still as he does it.

:shrug:

[corkhead]

78. 3D chess and all that.

[jp11]

95. Common logic says if you put up a steaming pile of crap and a candidate that shares

some of your views there is 'no choice' so screw your base, are they going to vote for the pile of crap, of course not!

I've heard basically that from various members of the party or other talking heads.

[old guy]

42. There can never be a liberal tea party IMO.

The tea party was a creation of the right wing and was given legitimacy by the corporate media which is controlled by the right. The corporate media would never give the left the same coverage or pretend to give it legitimacy. You can get anything you want if the corporate media supports you, but you will nothing if they don't.

[dreamnightwind]

83. No nay-saying please

We need positive energy on this, not people assuring us of defeat before we try. We really have to either go 3rd party or start a new semi-affiliated wing of the Democratic Party.

Why not the P party? Don't trickle down, Progressive up. Issues first, personalities last. People first, corporations can sit in the back.

[librechik]

89. exactly--us hippies can "tea" party all we want--the media will ignore us, the cops toss us in jail

never happen--if it did, i would be so thrilled!--but we would be denied coverage, no matter how many we pulled together. So the movement would die.

I thiunk it will get so bad that we will actually be forced underground. Then we can try to organize from there, behind stacks of supplies and ammo, I suppose. Though I doubt we would get violent. We are flower children for gawd's sake!

[Individualist]

3. It's about time!

[mudplanet]

4. Another proud information terrorist

[Scurrilous]

7. we should drop that lousy 'D.' n/t

[xultar]

10. Progressive...

[OregonBlue]

12. Unfortunately, most people here don't actually DO anything. They are keyboard warriors. So instead

of blogging about how irate everyone is, what are we gonna DO.

[NoodleyAppendage]

25. I will give money to any Democratic Senate Member who will kill the tax deal. That's what. n/t

J

[Mimosa]

58. Good idea. Thank goodness some Dems still have money.

:D

[NoodleyAppendage]

59. No much, but I'll give what I can.

If we don't support the TRUE progressives in our party, who will?

J

[BlueIris]

66. What an awful thing to post.

Awful.

[tavalon]

74. Every thread of this sort has someone say that.

It's such a well known phenomenon that when meta threads happen, it always gets included. The people who post here are the activists, the volunteers, the backbone of the Democrats. But, still this gets trotted out every time.

[Catherina]

104. That was likely posted as sabotage. Scurrilous is quite attached to that D. n/t

[Dash87]

9. Having to compromise doesn't equal betrayal

What do you honestly believe Obama could have done differently?

[Individualist]

13. Collaboration with neocons IS betrayal.

[Dash87]

With that attitude, nothing would be done.

If you want the Conservatives to bite, who unfortunately have a majority, we have to wiggle the carrot in front of them (compromise). Obama's hands are especially tied now. I believe that he's doing what he can.

Sadly, he needs the Republicans to support his bills by compromising with them, or the Republicans will just continue to filibuster or vote him down.

[Individualist]

21. Bless your heart...

:crazy:

[NoodleyAppendage]

24. Bullshit. In poker sometimes you BLUFF and force the other player to fold.

Obama and the Dems should have forced a Xmas Eve vote on unemployment extensions and used the press to trumpet the vote in the weeks leading up to it. The public would have been riveted to the vote and time was there to put public pressure on them to vote. If they did vote not to extend, then they come off looking like heartless assholes and the Dems are protected for trying to fight for it.

J

[Dash87]

29. I think the Republicans look terrible for not supporting it anyway,

I'm not sure if they would care very much in this situation, especially since some of their followers are so misguided.

[myrna minx]

11. How dare the base ask for a President to follow his own campaign promises!

The horror! K&R

[JoePhilly]

34. The liberal left is not the base.

I know here on DU, that's the belief. Its false.

The "liberal left", or "professional left" ... or whatever name the OP prefers ... is not the base.

The "BASE" does not vote "green" or vote for "Nadar".

The "BASE" does not stay home.

As for follow his "promises" ... in this case, he also promised to not raise taxes on those making under 250k. If he doesn't make some deal, he breaks THAT promise ... and THAT is the promise that most in the middle class will care about.

[creon]

55. correct

It is not the base.

[EFerrari]

67. You better hope we are because we turned out in the midterms

where the independents and conservadems stayed home or voted Republican. That was us. Not staying home, not voting for Nadar, showing up.

Good grief.

[Le Taz Hot]

73. And yet, that all-important, not-the-base

will be blamed when he doesn't get re-elected. Really, how can you guys not see the utter disconnect here?

Just for the record, I'm a progressive and I:
Did not vote for Nadar
Did not stay home.
I've got lots of progressive friends and they didn't do either one of those either.

Last I saw, something like 80+ percent of the populace were AGAINST the tax cuts for the wealthy so your assertion that "most in the middle class will care about" is inaccurate.

[Celtic Raven]

88. Thank you!

Same here:

Never voted Green/Nader.
Never missed a vote since 1980.




Liberals/Progressives are the whipping boys for the DLC & Blue Dogs. Depending on the day we're this minuscule sliver of the Democratic base, and then this huge election killing block.

:grr:

[tavalon]

76. Be persistent

And just give up.

[DevonRex]

14. It's gone. Thanks very much Mods.

[NoodleyAppendage]

17. Actually, I am. I make no apologies for my anger. Why aren't you pissed?

Maybe you should be introspecting as to why you are apparently o.k. with capitulating to Republicans over-and-over again?

J

[one_voice]

32. Maybe you shouldn't be so god damned quick...

to assume that all democrats should express their anger in the same ignorant way you did. One can get angry without sounding like Rush Limpballs.

I'll await my deletion while your "fuck the president" stays up nice and pretty.

[DevonRex]

39. It's gone now.

Mods must have had a chance to breathe.

[one_voice]

43. I'm gonna defend the mods on this one...

You can't keep up with all the shit flying around here last couple of days. Their job is difficult as it is, add in all the temper tantrum threads--cuz 100 just isn't enough, you need at least 200--and it's impossible.

I'm sure my post will disappear though, cuz people will break their fingers alerting.

[DevonRex]

47. I don't envy them, that's for sure.

:hi:

[NoodleyAppendage]

49. Which would be a shame and a prime example of what's gone wrong with the site. n/t

J

[NoodleyAppendage]

52. It must be lonely being the high-minded sanctimonious type.

I don't envy your position. Righteous anger, or the lack thereof, is EXACTLY what is wrong with our side. The last time our side had the "fire in their bellies" was in the late-60s.

J

[one_voice]

60. Maybe. I wouldn't know...

I'm not the one who asked why someone wasn't angry at the situation--as if god (pun intended) forbid; that person isn't screaming and yelling obscenities at/about the president, that there's something wrong with him/her.

I'm ok with those that are angry, and those that aren't angry. As far as I'm concerned, I think it's good that we have differences of opinions. What I don't think is ok, is when some think you're a traitor, or not a "real dem/progressive" simply because you don't react in the manner THEY think you should.

Kind of hypocritical coming from the very same people boasting about not walking lock step. Dontcha think?

Just for the record, I'm not high fiving over this deal.

[StarsInHerHair]

69. we do but thwy have worked hard to make us feel alone and powerless

we need to network.

[frylock]

19. oh my stars!1

where is the fainting couch?

[MineralMan]

50. That post is gone now. I think the mods are pretty busy

this afternoon. :understatement:

Edit: Hey, where's the understatement smiley? :rofl:

[DevonRex]

61. If I were they I would have run away to this:

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frylock]

20. he did run on eliminating these tax cuts

[Egnever]

35. and he still is

He just got done saying he doesnt like it and will continue to fight to end them.

[LibraLiz1973]

45. Fool me once...

Well, you know the rest.

[frylock]

48. i'm so comforted by knowing that he doesn't like it

[JoePhilly]

36. Also ran on not letting taxes go up for the middle class.

Given the current Senate, he had to break one of those promises.

Now think about it ... if he lets the taxes on the middle class expire, he's broken a key promise to the middle class, in a manner that hurts around 98% of the country.

Or ... he compromises on the tax cut for the ubber rich, which sucks, but which does not impact the middle class negatively. The middle class (outside DU) will thank him for protecting them.

That's the reality.

[Dash87]

22. Obama was always center-left.

He hasn't changed, from what I can see. Definitely agree. :)

[NoodleyAppendage]

65. Agreed, but he ran a leftward populist campaign in 2008.

He may have always been center-left, but that's not what we were sold in 2008.

J

[Le Taz Hot]

75. Oh please!

Obama couldn't find The Left with a compass and G.P.S.!

[Liberalynn]

79. Thanks for the laugh. I agree.

:rofl:

[Ichingcarpenter]

18. Its a World Struggle Now

I think most of you know that now.

[Greyhound]

38. And "our" government is on the wrong side, again.

We have forgotten the very premises this nation was founded on. We are the government, its job is to represent us and its power is derived from our consent. Its first role is to promote/serve the overall general welfare and secure the rights of its citizens. That when the government ceases to serve these functions it is our right to replace it, that's replace, not simply change the names on the wall and continue along the same path.

The United States of America was a prototype, not the final product, but the selling of nationalism has replaced this concept of an imperfect work-in-progress that needs to be continuously improved, with the quasi-religious enshrinement of the original mistakes.

We are (supposed to be) the good guys, but we've allowed the parasites to bend our power to their selfish intent, and to our own detriment.

[Ichingcarpenter]

51. Even in Europe they know about the sellout by their own

That's why they are in the streets.

Maybe 2012, according to the Mayans, might mean something.

Let me tell you...... It is at least a European Revulsion, Africa has known this for years.

I await Asia to wake up

South America has.

The US.....LOL!!!

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

30. That's the road we're headed down...

Shame.

[jefferson_dem]

26. Whatever.

All blustery heat and no light is a shitty recipe for a political discussion board, in my opinion.

By the way, you should take a few deep breaths. Nobody said shut up and take it, march in lockstep, or that you should be a lap dog.

[NoodleyAppendage]

27. Apparently, you did not see the last 1/3 of Obama's press conference.

Watch the press conference and get back to the discussion at hand.

J

[jefferson_dem]

31. Oh, I watched it.

Maybe you did too...but imagined alot of crazy shit that never happened.

[NoodleyAppendage]

33. It was not imagined to see our President deride his base for not being pragmatic enough.

And, if you haven't noticed, why is it that the only time the President appears to get worked up is when he is deriding his base. I don't seem to remember a podium pounding moment in relation to Republican obstructionism.

J

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[creon]

53. so would I

People who are the prisoner of their passions cannot be trusted.

They will turn on you.

Failure is an orphan.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[metapunditedgy]

62. LOL... as if the WH SPIN represents anything approaching the majority of the American people.

HCR... nope
DADT... nope
War war war... nope
Tax cuts for billionaires... nope

If 70% of Americans support something and the Democrats can't get it done, then somebody isn't really trying, are they?

[jefferson_dem]

40. Um...he just compared the republicans to hostage takers...

and the American people as the collateral damage.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/obama-on-tax-cuts-deal-id-stick-to-my-guns-if-there-was-not-collateral-damage.php?ref=fpa

Miss that?

[dave29]

86. he called them hostage takers

should he have brandished a rifle at that point?

[Liberalynn]

80. I watched it too

and didn't imagine him saying the following: "I take John Boehner at his word." That right there was only your first mistake Mr. President. I wouldn't trust Boehner's promise to pick up his dog's poop on a sidewalk. People like Boehner have no honor and no intention of ever keeping their word.

[Warpy]

28. Damn right, but don't forget 80% of the country was with us

on ending those reckless, unnecessary and ruinous tax cuts for billionaires.

A Democratic party that fails to adhere to majority opinion on important issues is not going to hold power, nor will it deserve to.

It seems we're in as much need of a major housecleaning as the Republicans are.

[JoePhilly]

41. No, they were not.

The majority would have "preferred" that the tax cuts for the rich expire ... BUT ... they were not willing to give up THEIR OWN tax cuts to make it so.

People (outside DU) who get to KEEP their tax cut, will NOT be upset with Obama for not sticking it to the rich, while also raising their own personal taxes.

[EFerrari]

68. Baloney. Go do a search and find the feedback outside DU. n/t

[nashville_brook]

93. Let's see you back this up with polling data...if you can.

:rofl:

[Poboy]

44. recommend

[Ichingcarpenter]

56. WikiLeaks..... opened eyes as did the protests in Europe

against this corporate World Oligarchy attacks on the working man for
'AUSTERITY'.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

63. + a brazilion

I always liked the Underground part best :)

[somone]

64. Why do we have to apologize to a Republican?

[thelordofhell]

70. No, it's changed to Progressive Underground

And the rage is starting to stink

[TBF]

81. Well excuse us for having principles and standing up for workers -

the rage is all we have left after TPTB committed us to endless war, bailed out big banks at the expense of main street and are keeping us on a string with double digit unemployment.

The gap between rich and poor is now wider than it's been since the 1920's - and that with a democratic majority. You can shove the compromise, our only chance at survival is to band together so our rage can be productive and push for things to be done. You may be happy to lay down and die, but the rest of us are going to fight.

[thelordofhell]

91. Because nobody else has principles but you..........

:eyes:

[TBF]

94. I have the workers in mind, while your principles clearly favor owners.

Good to know which side everyone is on.

[thelordofhell]

97. What???? Where did I say I don't have workers in mind???

I am awating your apology, but I suspect I will get another baseless accusation from you.


:eyes:

[TBF]

101. If you had workers anywhere in your mind you would be enraged as well.

Or at least upset. Something. Instead you have smilies.

[thelordofhell]

103. Unbelievable.....now you think smilies indicates other things

All it indicates is frustration with you. I'm sorry you don't think this compromise helps workers, their families, and any workers who unfortunately (thanks to the lying snake that was the President before Obama) need extended unemployment benefits. Now go find someone else to call names and make up shit out of thin air about, I'm tired of your childish rantings.

:argh:

[leveymg]

71. We're still Democrats, we're just not ObamaDems anymore. That bumpersticker now comes off.

The Underground part was always rhetorical. We haven't entered the revolutionary phase of rage and struggle, not yet.

[AndrewP]

77. +1

[MilesColtrane]

82. This parallels the usual building up and tearing down of celebrities and stars we see in the US.

People invest everything they have into someone, then when they find out they are an actual, flawed human, they turn on them.

[snooper2]

84. Truthy to POWER!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MichaelS2012]

85. K&R nt

[Supersedeas]

87. Back in your hole with your liberal principles--liberalism is just a point of departure for the

status quo to use as a point of marginal, trivial distinction.

Same ole status quo...same ole liberal criticism easily dismissed by the fan boys cheering for their man in the Whitehouse.

[AsahinaKimi]

90. I guess it would be safe to say

I am sure glad its not Democratic UnderWater...(can't hold my breath that long)

[Laelth]

92. And thank goodness!

I hardly recognized this place for a couple of years. Now, once again, DU is the premier LIBERAL American political forum.

For a while, there, DU lost its bearings and became an enabler of Republican policy. I am happy to see that those days have come to an end.

-Laelth

[NoodleyAppendage]

96. More like, "an enabler of DINO/DLC types" until recently.

It feels good to be ideologically consistent.

J

[Scurrilous]

98. So good to see the bad elements run off.

Purity ROCKS!!!!!!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MissDeeds]

100. Well said

I don't give a damn what this or any president claims to be. If he acts in ways that are at odds with the basic tenets of the party, he should be called out. Claiming to be a Dem doesn't necessarily make it so.

[Horse with no Name]

102. We are just being "uppity". n/t

[laughingliberal]

105. K & R nt