President Obama: "This country was founded on compromise"

[Better Believe It]

Oh .... that's how we won our independence from England!

What did we give them .... six states in return for seven independent ones?

I didn't know about that compromise.

I thought we had a revolutionary war for independence.

And what compromise was reached with the slave owners to end their rebellion?

It must have been General Sherman's compromise, the "march to the sea".

And look at all the compromises FDR made with Republicans to get his New Deal packages passed such as Social Security that according to President Obama didn't really amount to much! Obama claimed that only "widows and orphans" collected Social Security after it was passed.

President Obama needs to study American history.

He's seems to be making it up as he goes along.

[thereismore]

1. Yes. That's how blacks remained slaves in half the country. nt

[mediaman007]

3. Well they were counted as 3/5's! (sarcasm)

Someone had to give on that!

[Better Believe It]

12. That "compromise" didn't work out very well for slaves. It took a revolution to end slavery.

When the abolitionists and radical Republicans refused to compromise (capitulate) with the southern land and slave owners.

[bigtree]

28. freedom for those slaves didn't happen automatically with the Emancipation Proclamation

Nor were black Americans automatically ensured the right to vote or full rights of citizenship with the passage of the 14th and 15th amendments. Change, even revolutionary change, is often incremental and exclusionary in scope and implementation. The Civil Rights act, for instance, left out gays and the disabled.

[coti]

50. So, you're saying that Obama is saying it was just fine for us to have slaves for 80 years.

Obama, a black man, is saying this?

[thereismore]

67. Slavery is the compromise that I remember was made in order to make a more perfect union

of States. So I guess Obama is referring to that. What else?

[coti]

78. Right- so you're saying that he's saying that that was OK, which is why his compromising now is OK.

Is that correct, that you're saying that he's saying that slavery was OK, since it was a "compromise" that allowed the colonies to band together?

[Union Scribe]

85. He isn't saying it was okay, but he certainly seems to be saying

that prolonging it was okay in the name of compromise. Personally I hold the 3/5 to be one of the most immoral moments in this country's history, so I find it odd he'd invoke it in support of his governing policy.

[thereismore]

95. Yep. That's it. The reference to this compromise as something to be emulated or accepted

just seems cynical. And I am pretty sure that this is the compromise Obama was talking about, because he also added something to the effect that back then he would not be allowed to pass through the door of the WH.

[intheflow]

98. That does indeed seem to be what he is saying.

As that was the major compromise/capitulation to wealthy landowners that was made to bring this country about.

His being an African American doesn't give him an automatic pass - not when he's a wealthy politician with literally the world's power at his fingertips. He's shown us he's got the rich folks' back and not ours. :(

[slackmaster]

69. Focused like a laser beam on the core irony of Obama's statement

:nuke:

[JustAnotherGen]

2. Wait

I'm really po'd about how this as it has all played out.


But – he’s correct. Take Great Britain and Crazy George out of it . . .

There was a lot of compromise AMONG the colonists to get us to the point of a newly born country. One I’m thinking of? 2/3 Compromise.

So once we got THEM off our backs - we had a lot of negotiating and back and forth and so on and so forth, etc. etc.

[phleshdef]

9. Yea its painfully obvious that he was talking about the process that got us to where we are today.

But the OP is ignoring the obviousness of that in hopes that it will make for a cheaply acquired argument.

[Better Believe It]

16. It was war that got them off our backs. We did not achieve independence by compromising with the

bastards. That's the bottom line.

[JustAnotherGen]

70. So you don't believe

Compromise amongst ourselves happened AT ALL during the late spring/early summer of 1776?


Go back and review John Adams involvement with that. Belligerent guy but he had to bend over and take a lot JUST to get to the Declaration. That happened before the War.

Again - I'm in total disagreement with this. I'm pissed. But I'd rather see a compromise of:

We'll give you UP to a million dollars for tax break extension and you will give us extended unemployment benefits, DADT, and just for shits and giggles The Fair Pay Act, a free pony for every American child, and life time supplies of Preperation-H since you're being a big old pain in the ass to the American people.

Go big and get the first two and open up the third.

Maybe it's my sales creature background but you never ever start off with your C plan. You go for the A Plan then let the customer negotiate down.

If you give them a $2000 advertising program your going to get a $50 program.

If you give them a $50,000 program, you might get a $30K sale.

[JCMach1]

4. Wow,,, I don't seem to remember much compromise with King George...

Revisionist history, MUCH???

[phleshdef]

5. High school American History teaches us about the Great Compromise

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/usconstitution/f/greatcompromise.htm

"Two plans were put forth during the Constitutional Convention to create the new branches of government. The Virginia Plan wanted a strong national government with three branches. The legislature would have two houses. One would be directly elected by the people and the second would selected by the first house from people nominated by the state legislatures. Further, the president and national judiciary would be chosen by the national legislature. On the other hand, the New Jersey Plan wanted a more decentralized plan amending the old Articles yet allowing for a somewhat stronger government. Each state would have one vote in Congress.

The Great Compromise combined these two plans creating our current legislature with two houses, one based on population and elected by the people and the other house allowing two senators per state being appointed by state legislatures."

[PBS Poll-435]

Don't bring facts into this argument. That would be bad.

:spank:

[RainDog]

86. an even greater irony

because The Great Compromise was absolutely tied to the issue of slavery. so, please bring facts into this argument because they're needed, it appears. It is an idiotic and ahistorical claim to pretend that slavery was not part of the entire series of compromises that led to the way in which the American govt. decided to choose people for public office.

"Slavery was the unwelcome guest at the convention's table. Nowhere does the Constitution use the word "slave" or "slavery." In language intended to compromise competing southern and northern views on representation, the convention decided that, in apportioning representatives, to the number of "free Persons" should be added three-fifths of "all other Persons" -- that is, slaves. Some of the delegates thought slavery a blot on the nation's moral conscience, but they concluded, reluctantly, that a stronger stand on slavery would mean rejection of the proposed Constitution in the southern states and thus the prospect of the Union's dissolution. How to resolve the burning issue of slavery was thus postponed, to be settled decades later by civil war and reconstruction."

http://www.america.gov/st/usg-english/2008/January/20071116194724xjsnommis0.5400049.html

[malaise]

20. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! n/t

[Better Believe It]

22. The nation could only be founded by defeating the British colonialists in war.

Without achieving independence the United States would not have been formed.

[phleshdef]

24. And nothing he said stands in contradiction to that.

The "founding" of this country is not a single act. It was a process that played out over time.

Stop acting dumb. You know better. You are trying to play literalist with this in order to make a point and its really weak.

[Schema Thing]

ooh, tough guy.

go away.

[Schema Thing]

29. ooh, tough guy.

go away.

[onenote]

65. While it was possible to defeat the British colonialists without compromise

The nation that resulted was founded upon compromise among the colonies. That is simple, undeniable historical fact.

[ArcticFox]

31. That's got to be what he's trying to talk about

How does allowing the people to elect representatives suddenly in his mind equate to the recent capitulations (which he incorrectly describes as "compromises")?

[closeupready]

66. Oh, Gawd! LOL - prior to today and this DU thread, I'd never heard of "The Great Compromise"

Sounds like a Facebook page someone quickly cooked up to support themselves here ("SEe? I have a cite! The Great Compromise!") :rofl:

[Newest Reality]

6. Yeah, he should have a talk with Native Americans on that

potentially faulty presupposition, as well. It is a matter of context, not hawking truisms.

[Moondog]

7. BS. He's making it up as he goes along. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. A little perspective on that war helps

Recent historiography is pointing to something that will NOT be popular round these parts. It was a conflict between two power elites over power and the nature of power. Many did not give up on their Englishness until the last possible second.

Now that gives it a different meaning, doesn't it?

[TexasObserver]

10. This country was founded on liberals who wouldn't compromise.

That Bill of Rights wasn't written by the great Founding Fathers.

It was demanded by a group of noisy leftists who didn't trust a government that could search their homes, or make them testify against themselves, or subject them to cruel and unusual punishments, or make them believe certain religions, or restrict their freedom of speech or of the press.

It wasn't compromise that got the Bill of Rights, but refusal to compromise on those key issues.

The president does need to learn his history.

[Better Believe It]

23. I believe that at least six states would not agree to enter a union without a Bill of Rights.

They were unwilling to capitulate on that.

[derby378]

11. "Double dose of Focker" in him

Double dose. He needs to cut that shit out.

[Scurrilous]

13. Did the Germans compromise when they bombed Pearl Harbor??

I didn't think so!

[Donnachaidh]

18. paper towels please!

:spray: :rofl:

[AngryAmish]

14. Missouri Compromise is a historic compromise

THat worked out so well..

[Dash87]

15. We won independence from England, then we compromised.

Obama is 100% correct. Without compromise, this country would be nothing.

[Better Believe It]

30. And how did we compromise to win our independence from England?

I thought there was a war.

[Dash87]

42. We won the war, which has nothing to do with Bush's tax cuts or Obama.

It's a false equivalency. This country was built upon compromise during the process to create a government after the war was won.

[closeupready]

46. Just because you can form a sentence with "country" "compromise" and "government" in it, doesn't mea

mean what Obama said is correct or truthful.

[Dash87]

48. I guess we can only disagree then.

:)

[Freetradesucks]

84. We didn't, we killed them until they capitulated.

His comment on "compromise" and how sometimes it's OK to "negotiate" with terrorists (in this case the GOP) speak volumes as to his mindset. He is weak, and now EVERYBODY knows it.

[Liberalynn]

17. We'd Still be Singing God Save the Queen

if our leaders in the 1700's didn't know how to stand up to tyrants.

I wish we still had people of character like theirs in power but sadly we have a bunch of spineless wimp asses.

[JCMach1]

21. Exactly

[Individualist]

19. It sounds like he has been taking revisionist history lessions from the Chimp.

[Erose999]

27. Using some Texas schoolbooks personally edited by Karl Rove.

[MadBadger]

25. That is how our government was founded

[closeupready]

43. Yes, but NOT the country.

n/t

[coti]

54. Yeah, there isn't a whole lot of "compromising" language in the Declaration of Independence.

It's pretty black and white, actually.

[MadBadger]

59. And our country wouldn t have survived wihout the constitution

[onenote]

68. I'm curious as to when you think the "country" known as the United States of America was founded

Until the Constitution was ratified, the "United States of America" was little more than a loose confederation of "free and independent states" (to use the terminology of the Declaration of Independence). Even under the Articles of Confederation, there would have been no executive branch, no federal judiciary. The "United States of America" under the Articles of Confederation would have been no more a "country" than the United Nations is a "country." It took the Constitution, which took compromise, to create the nation state that we live in now.

[coti]

80. The Declaration of Independence was our country's first official document, by definition.

You can check the dates at the National Archives, if you like. ;)

[closeupready]

96. Shouldn't you be asking Barack Obama?

? From what he tells us, he's a constitutional law scholar. Though I think he wants to compromise on the 1st, 4th and 10th amendments.

[bowens43]

26. he actually said that!?!?!?!?! nt

[creon]

32. only when necessary

A politician is just like any other man - only more so.

Just as other people compromise only from necessity, so does a politician. When faced with necessity, a politican will, sometimes, compromise. Sometimes, they roll the iron dice and lose.

By the way sir: we tried to compromise with London. London would not compromise. The Treaty of Paris involved compromises.


We tried to compromise before the Civil War - that compromise did not hold < the compromise of 1850, which broken by 1854>

The constitution was a compromise.
The War of 1812 ended in compromise.

The list goes on.

[closeupready]

53. So a grilled cheese sandwich is a compromise. A pedicure is a compromise. Fermented skate skin is

a compromise. Genius! :sarcasm:

[creon]

94. whatever

fool

[closeupready]

97. whatever

tool

[hfojvt]

33. so now he is scolding Democrats for refusing to compromise?

thank goodness he's not expecting Republicans to compromise. They are gonna have to just hold their nose and vote for what they wanted dammit!

[bigtree]

35. no, he was defending the ones he's made

[bigtree]

34. he flubbed that.

He was trying to relate the progress the country has made toward blacks.

And, on consideration, he could have been thinking about the formation of the union

[Desertrose]

36. ...and I'm like...Oh no it wasn't!

It was NO compromise that got us fighting for independence I believe.

[bigtree]

37. the formation of the Union was a compromise

The Great Compromise etc., history101

three compromises made at the constitutional convention of 1787:

New powers were granted to Congress to regulate the economy, currency, and the national defense, but provisions which would give the national government a veto power over new state laws was rejected.

[closeupready]

45. Hint: Country and Government don't mean the same thing.

n/t

[bigtree]

47. It's not like the examples he gave didn't give an idea what he meant

He meant our Union. Some believe the Confederation of States wasn't really a complete country until we formed a Union.

[phleshdef]

55. Hint: Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows he was talking about the broader process.

You are making yourself look childish by trying to create a straw man argument out of what he said.

[closeupready]

62. I disagree.

n/t

[Desertrose]

49. He said the NATION was founded on compromise...

I disagree.

[bigtree]

52. so he misspoke

I can see clearly what he meant, without being overly critical.

[Desertrose]

60. We are supposed to read his mind & intentions now?

Whatever makes you feel better.

[phleshdef]

77. No you are suppose to use some common sense.

[phleshdef]

56. Do you realize how petulant that kind of word parsing makes one look?

[Desertrose]

58. I took him at his word...petulant?

OK...whatever you think.

[phleshdef]

73. Yes as in child like. But honestly I think even young children know better.

[Desertrose]

90. Oh for crying out loud.

Talk about common sense.....your calling me a petulant child because we see things differently is pretty pathetic.

[onenote]

71. when do you think the "nation" known as the United States of AMerica was created

as opposed to the loose confederation of free and independent states known as the United States of America? There is a big difference. Using the term "nation" to characterize the entity referred to as the United States of America before the ratification of the Constitution makes about as much sense as using the term "nation" to characterize the United Nations.

[pnorman]

38. Not every skirmish/battle is Armageddon.

But the General Election of 2012, of all those within memory of most here, WILL be Armageddon! That's what's on Obama's mind, and should be on our minds too!

[meow mix]

39. if obama had "compromised" for the founding of the US..

we be singing god save the queen at baseball games and eating hot kippers?

[JoePhilly]

40. He's right ... we have THREE branches of government for a reason.

[closeupready]

41. I know! My first reaction was, NO, it was not; it was founded on revolution.

And revolutionary thinking and ideas. Sheez.

[somone]

44. What A Crock

Unbelievable.

[blindpig]

51. Compromise works so well...

Edit: and just so ya know, the comparison is with Chamberlain.

[grasswire]

57. If there was compromise in 1776, then why....

...did one branch of my family have to abandon all their lands and goods and flee for their lives to Canada, while another branch of my family was heralded as patriots?

My ancestor who was a loyalist was nailed into a wooden crate by his wife and put on a horse cart and a boat to get away.

Another ancestor signed the Declaration of Independence.

I don't think there was much compromise between patriots and loyalists. They were mortal enemies.

[lukasahero]

61. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Yes, this nation was founded on compromise. But compromise involves 2 parties giving a little. It does not mean one party giving in to absolutely every single demand the other party makes.

[coti]

88. Another important point. nt

[tammywammy]

63. If you don't think compromise played an essential role in the founding of the US

Then it appears you're the one that needs to hit the history books.

[Bucky]

64. Founded on compromise by people willing to compromise on both sides.

Sorry, no sale. 1776 wasn't a compromise. The Constitution was a lot of compromises. But this country was held together in 1865 by someone who was not willing to compromise with the unacceptable.

[phleshdef]

74. You aren't stupid. You know he never said those things were compromises.

This goes for you and everyone else in this thread pretending that they think he meant something that anyone with a drop of common sense would not think he meant. Stop playing games. There were indeed many, many compromises that took place as actions were taken to establish this country. And the whole story wasn't told in one day, one year or even one decade. Quit this nonsense. You make the rest of us on the left look stupid when you do so.

[onenote]

75. While the refusal to compromise defeated the Confederacy

ultimately, the process of recreating the union took several compromises (and more than a decade).

[Bluebear]

72. Not a history "scholar" is he?

[Better Believe It]

79. I'm not either but I do know we had a revolution for independence in order to build a new country

[onenote]

91. and were you aware that if it wasn't for compromises among the "United" States, there would be no

country? No nation-state. No republic? Maybe not even a confederation of free and independent states. Just a bunch of independent nations.

[Better Believe It]

99. Six independent state refused to join the union without adding a Bill of Rights to the Constitution.

They refused to compromise on that demand in return for a promise to take up those amendments at some unspecfied time in the future.

What compromise do you think they should have made on the Bill of Rights amendments in order to form a less perfect union?

[onenote]

100. which six "independent" states?

I'm not sure what you are referring to. The facts are that 11 of the original 13 states ratified the Constitution before the Bill of Rights was proposed for ratification and only one (Rhode Island) expressly rejected the Constitution pre-Bill of Rights.


September 17, 1787 – Final draft of the Constitution is signed and convention adjourns.
September 28, 1787 – Continental Congress approves sending proposed Constitution to states for their consideration.
December 7, 1787 – Delaware is 1st state to ratify the Constitution.
December 12, 1787 – Pennsylvania is 2nd state to ratify the Constitution.
December 18, 1787 – New Jersey is 3rd state to ratify the Constitution.
January 2, 1788 – Georgia is 4th state to ratify the Constitution.
January 9, 1788 – Connecticut is 5th state to ratify the Constitution.
February 6, 1788 – Massachusetts is 6th state to ratify the Constitution.
March 24, 1788 – Rhode Island REFUSES to call ratifying convention.
April 28, 1788 – Maryland is 7th state to ratify the Constitution.
May 23, 1788 – South Carolina is 8th state to ratify the Constitution.
June 21, 1788 – New Hampshire is 9th state to ratify the Constitution.
June 25, 1788 – Virginia is 10th state to ratify the Constitution.
July 26, 1788 – New York is 11th state to ratify the Constitution.
March 4, 1789 – The Constitution goes into effect.
September 25, 1789 – Congress proposes Bill of Rights.
November 20, 1789 – New Jersey is 1st state to ratify the Bill of Rights.<18>
November 21, 1789 – North Carolina is 12th state to ratify the Constitution.
December 19, 1789 – Maryland is 2nd state to ratify the Bill of Rights.
December 22, 1789 – North Carolina is 3rd state to ratify the Bill of Rights.
January 19, 1790 – South Carolina is 4th state to ratify the Bill of Rights.
January 25, 1790 – New Hampshire is 5th state to ratify the Bill of Rights.
January 28, 1790 – Delaware is 6th state to ratify the Bill of Rights.
February 24, 1790 – New York is 7th state to ratify the Bill of Rights.
March 10, 1790 – Pennsylvania is 8th state to ratify the Bill of Rights.
May 29, 1790 – Rhode Island is 13th state to ratify the Constitution.
June 7, 1790 – Rhode Island is 9th state to ratify the Bill of Rights.
October 17, 1790 – Peace treaty between New York and Vermont paves way for Vermont's admission to the union.
January 10, 1791 – Vermont becomes 14th state to ratify the Constitution — except that it's not a state until March 4, 1791.
November 3, 1791 – Vermont is 10th state to ratify the Bill of Rights.
December 15, 1791 – Virginia is 11th state to ratify the Bill of Rights, and Bill of Rights goes into effect.
March 2, 1792 – Massachusetts is 12th state to ratify the Bill of Rights.
March 18, 1792 – Georgia is 13th state to ratify the Bill of Rights.
April 19, 1792 – Connecticut is 14th state to ratify the Bill of Rights.

[onenote]

81. far better one than a lot of posters on this thread

who seem to think that the nation-state that came into being through the ratification of the Constitution in 1788 -- the one we live in --was formed by defeating the British in 1783. While there was a loose confederation of free and independent states during the period between the Declaration of Independence and the ratification of the Constitution, the United States of America during that period was no more a nation state than the United Nations is today. It was a confederation of states. No executive branch, no judiciary. A weak legislative branch that was essentially beholding to the individual states that belonged to the confederation.

[B Calm]

76. I've had it with his compromising bullshit. The middle class is at stake!

[Dappleganger]

82. I voted for someone to fight for me in DC, not compromise my life away.

[dionysus]

83. i'm pretty sure he understands it a hell of a lot better than you do BBI...

[coti]

87. "We hold these truths to be self-evident...unless they are met with some resistance." nt

[stray cat]

89. Your history of the US colonies needs substantial work!

The colonies disagreements were certainly greater than today but they were smart enough to work together to unite against England and then unite to put together a country - but in its history it has never been pretty, power has shifted back and forth - and there have been key compromises! Allowing slavery to continue instead of having the revolution fail was a compromise.

[Better Believe It]

92. So there really wasn't a revolution to achieve independence. Thanks for the info.

[onenote]

101. there was a revolution that achieved independence for a group of independent states

But without compromise, that's what we'd still have -- a bunch of loosely confederated states -- no more a single "country" than the United Nations is a single country.

[truedelphi]

93. Obama is obviously confusing his backroom deal which gave him

The Presidency for four years with the history of the entire nation.

Minor delusion, that one.