Upton flips a switch on CFL bulbs

[mahatmakanejeeves]

I, personally, will testify in favor of a mandated return to vacuum tube hi-fi equipment.

Upton flips a switch on CFL bulbs

Feeling heat, lawmaker sees light on incandescents
By Stephen Dinan - The Washington Times
8:05 p.m., Monday, December 6, 2010

Three years after he led the charge to require consumers to ditch their comfortable old incandescent lights in favor of those twisty CFL bulbs, Rep. Fred Upton now wants to be the man to help undo that law as the next chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

That about-face is not unique among lawmakers looking to atone for stances they've taken over the past decade as they seek to gain top posts in a decidedly more conservative Republican Congress, but his reversal underscores how intent the GOP is on proving it has broken with past practices.

"We have heard the grass roots loud and clear, and will have a hearing early next Congress," said Mr. Upton, a Michigan Republican who is facing several others in his party in a bid to earn the gavel of the powerful committee. "The last thing we wanted to do was infringe upon personal liberties — and this has been a good lesson that Congress does not always know best."

Indeed, the compact fluorescent lamp, or CFL, has become a symbol of government overreach for many consumers, who wonder what was wrong with the incandescent bulbs that have lighted their kitchens, family rooms and bedrooms for more than a century.

[PVnRT]

1. You'll get my tungsten wire when you pry it from my dead, scorched hand!

Amazing the kinds of trivialities the GOP wants people to think are "personal freedoms." It makes it easier to take the important stuff away later.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

2. The so-called Ideal Gas "Law" is just a theory.

Alternative explanations should be taught.

Ideal gas law

Note: sarcasm.

[notesdev]

4. It's not a triviality

You give out CFLs to a mass-uneducated public and you're going to get mercury poisoning all over the place.

It is bass-ackwards to mandate a very hazardous material in everyone's home in the name of the environment.

All this ever was was a favor for CFL manufacturers, there is no legitimate reasoning for forcing everyone to abandon the tried-and-true incandescent.

[Statistical]

7. BS. Less mercury is released from CFL than incandescents even if you INTENTIONALLY break CFL bulbs.

Roughly half our power comes from coal and coal and a "tried-and-true incandescent" spews more mercury in its lifetime (via power generation) than is contained in CFL.

Of course the reality is vast majority of CFL will never be broken making the 2.4mg contained in the bulb a moot point. It can be easily recycled. Still even if people were stupid and smashed all their CFL bulbs it would be a NET DECREASE in mercury emissions.

Think about that for a second.



When you take a more realistic look the difference is even more stark. Say 20% of CFL are busted (intentionally or accidentally) and mercury released into environment that is a net release of 3.2mg over 5 years (2.4mg from power + 0.8mg from 20% of bubls which are busted) that still represents a nearly 70% reduction in mercury compared to the 10mg of mercury released powering the horribly inefficient "tried-and-true incandescent".

[notesdev]

11. That's really stretching it

I can assure you that for those whose CFL bulbs break and end up looking at a substantial hazmat cleanup bill, it is not a moot point at all. Mercury emissions at a power plant are not comparable to the risk of loose mercury inside someone's home.

If an incandescent breaks, you sweep it up and it's done with. That is very definitely NOT the case with CFL bulbs and it is a very substantial difference.

[Statistical]

14. Hazmat cleanup for a busted CFL? LOL. What a load.

[Ginto]

26. You just have to leave the room for 15 minutes and shut off any central HVAC systems. nt

[GoCubsGo]

19. THANK YOU!!!!

If people only knew how much mercury and other nasty shit is spewed from coal-fired power plants. The whole world is already contaminated with mercury thanks to fallout from power plants. People can whine about mercury in light bulbs, vaccines and everything else, but the amounts are a pittance compared to coal combustion waste fallout. Even if those all went away, you would still be getting mercury contamination.

[SidDithers]

29. Great post...nt

Sid

[GoCubsGo]

18. You understand that those long fluorescent lights that exist everywhere also have mercury in them?

Lots more than CFLs. I'm referring to the long tubular bulbs that are everywhere. They've been around for decades, and they are all over the place...your aquarium lights, your plant lights, your office lights, probably the light in your kitchen. Yet, I have never once heard anyone bring up the subject of mercury regarding these bulbs. Never. Quite frankly, I'm far more concerned about the pesticides and herbicides that sit on the shelf at your local Home Depot. Those are infinitely more dangerous in the hands of a mass-uneducated public. Yet, how many of the people who piss their pants over the mercury in a CFL spray that shit all over the place without having any clue as to what it does?

CFL will be obsolete before long, anyway. Everything is going to LED.

[alfredo]

40. Who controls the supply of tungsten? What other uses

are there for that metal? How much is still in the ground? How will society be impacted if we run short on tungsten?

Mercury. Power plants pump a lot of mercury into the air. Is exposure of Mercury in CFL's less or more than from coal fired power plants?

[MadHound]

3. Personally, I hope that this goes through

Two things, they're finding that if you break a CFL that the mercury vapors that result are much higher than originally advertised(surprise, surprise) and that it takes longer for them to disapate. On a more personal note, due to an eye injury my wife cannot stand CFL, LED's or other such lighting, and incandescent lighting is the most comfortable for her eyes.

[CreekDog]

5. the mercury emissions from burning coal are far higher than for CFL's

you have mercury throughout your environment thanks to coal burning and you will increase it rather than decrease it by reducing the use of CFL's in favor of incandescents.

[MadHound]

6. Actually in the immediate area, no

You break a CFL and the amount of mercury in the are goes up and stays up for awhile, far higher than what you find from coal powered plants.

Secondly, I'm not going to subject my wife to a home that contains lighting that is painful to her. Would you do that to your wife or husband? Then why do you think that mine should suffer. I've already figured out how many incandescents we will need to last out our lifetime, and have begun purchasing and storing them for future use.

[CreekDog]

8. oh yeah? how often can you safely eat fish?

how often can a pregnant woman safely eat fish?

if you minimize the effect of mercury on the environment you aren't arguing soundly.

now if you want an alternative to CFL's then push for one, but to trade the energy gains and pollution reductions for one of the worst alternatives to CFL's is just irresponsible.

besides, how many of these bulbs do you break? are you careless? i've been using CFL's since the 1980's, I don't think I've ever broken one.

[MadHound]

10. I'm not talking the larger environment, something you seem to be missing

If I break a CFL inside my house, the mercury levels within that house are going up, dramatically. In fact several knowledgeable people recommend calling in a haz mat crew to clean up. To have that kind of haz mat in the hands of ordinary people is foolish.

And as I said earlier, the alternatives to incandescents, CFL's, LED's etc. are literally a pain to my wife. Again, let me ask you, would you be willing to put your loved one through such pain in order to save on energy?

And as far as saving energy goes, well gee sport, I think I more than make up for it with the solar panels on my roof, the food that I grow for myself, and the fuel efficient vehicles I drive. Let me guess, you've been putting in CFL's since the '80's, but continue to trek to the grocery store in order to buy food that's been shipped thousands of miles. Ooo, energy efficient, NOT.

[CreekDog]

12. i don't have a yard...want to call me wasteful?

i also don't have a 700k to buy a house with a yard.

[MadHound]

13. No, what I want you to do is realize that a lot of folks are doing what they can to help

And that we each do it in our own way, within our own limitations, using whatever means we can, and that to judge a person, or chew them out for not doing it exactly how you would do it is rude and assholish. You screw in CFL's, but don't have the yard to grow a garden. My wife can only stand incandescents, but we put on solar panels and plant our own food. In the end, we're both saving on energy and pollution, and if I don't do it just like you want, that's not a sin, just simply doing it differently. So what I want you to do is stop chewing on my ass for doing things differently from you, OK.

[Tesha]

15. Name names.

> In fact several knowledgeable people recommend calling in a haz mat crew to clean up.

Name names. What "knowledgeable people" have said such an insane thing?

By the way, do you now use or have you ever used the old-style "non-compact"
fluorescent lamps?

Tesha

[Statistical]

16. They make shatterproof CFL and the idea that the law mandates a CFL is a misnomer.

In your PERSONAL case, if it physically causes pain for your wife, don't use CFL.

However that nationwide govt policy should be based on a niche is silly. 99.9999999% of people aren't physically pained by using CFL/LCD thus govt mandating higher efficiency (and most people will use CFL) is a win-win. There is no reason to resist this.

You are aware that nothing mandates the use of CFL, the law simply mandates a minimum efficiency. Florescent bulbs, CFL, LED, halogens, and now even some higher tech traditional incadescents meet the min requirements.

The law simply mandates min amount of light from given amount of energy. It is nothing different than mpg ratings, or min efficiency on air conditioners. Do you oppose those?

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/can-incandescent-bulbs-be-made-efficient/

The idea that you should have a right to waste 85%+ of the energy as heat because you fail to inform yourself is foolish. You have no right to any product. The good of the many over selfish desires and all that.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

30. "You have no right to any product. The good of the many over selfish desires and all that."

That's a little Orwellian for my taste. Why do I keep thinking of the original TV ad for the Apple Macintosh?

[ehrnst]

41. Yes - much more mercury is prevented from getting into the air than is include in the making of CFLs

[Greyhound]

9. Translation; We got a call from GE that they are not happy with how long they last

and how many other manufacturers are selling.
:puke:

Incandescent bulbs are a limited technology that has seen the end of the road. They are energy hogs with a relatively complicated manufacturing process, all of which means much more profit.

CFL is/was a stopgap with its own problems, but LED's are very promising and getting better all the time.

[Statistical]

17. Not only that the the "mandate" simply mandates min efficiency.

It has caused a boom into alternative research.

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/can-incandescent-bulbs-be-made-efficient/

Who cares how the light is generated as long as it meets min efficiency standards. The govt doesn't care and dozens of companies are racing to build a better (more efficient) light bulb.

[Ginto]

20. CFL's are a scam. LED's are the near future. nt

[Tesha]

21. In what way are they a scam? A scam by whom?

And does the scamminess extend to non-compact
fluorescent lamps?

Tesha

[Ginto]

24. Bad light, lifespan exaggerations, etc.

Most likely by the manufacturers. Going to make a lot of money in the interim before LED lights become widespread.

[Tesha]

27. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but we've had very good luck with all of our many CFLs.

The only two that failed prematurely were two that had
bad electrical connections in their bases.

And if you buy CFLs that are slightly higher in wattage
than the manufacturers recommend as the "incandescent
equivalent", there's nothing wrong with their light either.
Choose the color temperature that suits you.

Tesha

[Ginto]

28. I've tried multiple brands, multiple wattages, and multiple color temps.

Makes everyone look like they're working in the office at the beginning of Joe Versus the Volcano. Worse yet, I think it's because my house is old, but I haven't had any of them last. In some cases, they last even shorter than the incandescent ones. I'll stock up on the old incandescents and wait for LED's to come down in price.

[hobbit709]

33. So you're blaming CFLs for flaky wiring in your house?

Maybe you should check the wiring before your house burns down.

[Ginto]

35. Sorry that I live in an old house. Maybe I should buy a new McMansion. nt

[hobbit709]

37. Checking the wiring is a lot cheaper.

Making sure all connections on switches, socket, and outlets doesn't take that much time. and loose connections is where most electrical problems start.

My house is mostly aluminum wiring and I do this every other year.

[Ginto]

39. The houses wiring is fine.

Might need a panel upgrade and whole house surge protection wouldn't hurt since the power coming in off the line isn't always stable.

Some say I turn my lights on and off too much, but if I leave a room I'm not going to leave it lit.

[hobbit709]

32. If you're going to complain about bad light.

LEDs are worse.

[Ginto]

36. Look fine on the Christmas tree. :) nt

[onenote]

22. Fred is doing whatever he takes to get the energy and commerce committee chair

He has to position himself as being as far to the right, if not farther, than Barton. If that means repudiating past positions, he's not going to hesitate. This isn't about what is good policy. Its about what is good for Fred Upton.

[onenote]

23. And it apparently worked

Just got word that Upton is getting the E&C Chair over Barton

[pgodbold]

25. Throw in a return to vinyl and I'm yours forever. nt

[mahatmakanejeeves]

31. I never left.

.

[CBGLuthier]

34. Wow, some folks are really, really fucking stupid.

I hear horses are better than cars too.

Backwards assholes.

[hobbit709]

38. If we all had horses instead of cars.

this country would be knee deep in horseshit.