Do you support Sanders' plan to block the compromise?

[rucky]

[onenote]

1. what exactly is his "plan"

The only report I've seen indicates he's looking for republican support to kill this and get something better. That's not a plan. That's a fantasy.

[rucky]

5. He used the same strategy in healthcare reform...

and got 10,000 free clinics out of it.

[onenote]

17. His strategy on health care doesn't translate to this situation

On Health Care, he held out the possibility of not supporting the bill, thereby denying it the 60th vote needed, unless there were compromises that he wanted, such as the funding of community health centers. Its not as if there were any of the other 59 votes for cloture that were dead set against such a thing. In contrast, this time around, its going to take repub votes to get cloture and there are no repubs that will want to give up anything that they got in the deal with Obama. So its basically an empty threat, unless your ultimate goal is not compromise but rather to kill the tax cuts completely.

[mdmc]

2. I SUPPORT BERNIE

Frankly he is one of the few that can be trusted in the Senate. Shit.. Is there anyone else that can be trusted? Oh yeah, my main man Franken!

[mod mom]

3. + 1

[BeyondGeography]

4. I support Bernie Sanctimonious

:sarcasm:

[hlthe2b]

6. Wrought with "unintended consequences" if we do, I fear...

It is hard for me not to embrace Sanders as his views most closely align with my own. But, there will be hell to pay if we effectively block both a President from our own party, as well as the potential fallout of even an unsuccessful attempt. I hate how boxed in I feel right now.

I don't know yet how to answer this....

[xchrom]

7. It takes an Independent to act like a Democrat. Nt

[NorthCarolina]

8. GO Bernie!!!!

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

9. Yes, and at this point let the whole tax bill run out.

[slay]

10. Kill it, cut it up into little pieces, and flush it down the toilet

Do YOU want to be held hostage by Republicans for the next 2-6 years? I don't. We make our stand HERE. If we go down fighting and the bill passes so be it - we can start looking for who to run against Obama in the primary for 2012.

[MrsCorleone]

11. Why don't we call Sanders' office and find out, rather than lurch mindlessly

over M$M spin?

[Luciferous]

12. Yes, but will he actually stick with it this time? I remember being

so proud of him for refusing to agree to a bill without a public option, but then when he got the free clinics he went along with it.

[rucky]

15. and we got free clinics

so he's still a hero for making a crappy bill palatable.

I think he's going to do the same type of thing this time, so set your expectations accordingly.

[sabrina 1]

13. Why didn't they just do nothing and let the tax cuts run out?

Then force Republicans to vote 'no' on the Employment Benefits as a stand-alone vote?

Instead as always, they save the Republicans from having to show their true colors.

Of course I support Bernie, but he will be outnumbered by the bought and paid for members of Congress who must deliver the goods to their corporate bosses.

[TwilightZone]

16. Show their true colors?

They've shown their true colors clearly and repeatedly over the past two years. Their true colors couldn't be more apparent to anyone paying even a little attention.

They're already on public record declaring that unemployment benefits are "unnecessary massive spending". Can't make it much clearer than that.

The problem is that no one seems to care and people voted for them anyway. If the past two years didn't make things crystal clear, forcing one more vote won't matter in the slightest.

[sabrina 1]

19. Tying the tax cuts to the unemployment extension gave them cover.

Clearly THEY didn't want to be forced to vote against the American people. So I guess they don't have your confidence that it doesn't matter how they vote.

The American people never got to see them for what they are, you are wrong. I have friends who voted for them in the last election, people who get their news from TV. And I could NOT convince them that these Republicans do not care about the American people. They had NOT seen any evidence of that.

What they did point out to me was that Republicans were against the bailouts, and that 'shows that they care more about the people than the banks'. I pointed out that they had supported bailouts under Bush, but, they only knew about the latest round of bailouts.

As for the healthcare bill, they were FOR a National Healthcare system. Again, I pointed out to them that Republicans will never and have never supported such a system. They answered 'neither do Democrats'.

The real problem is that Democrats cave so often to REpublican ideas, it's hard to find anything to use to show clear lines between the two parties anymore, on the wars, on torture, on the economy, on Social Security and on and on.

[TwilightZone]

22. Apparently, they missed the last two years.

The GOP has blocked the agenda on every issue for two years and then gone on TV and bragged about it. Your friends buy the GOP spin on things, and you assume it's because the Republicans have political cover?

Sorry, but no. The problem isn't the message. The problem is your friends. They're just like most voters - they pay little attention to the issues and then vote by impulse for whomever yells the loudest and most often on TV. Exit polls have borne this out repeatedly, especially in '10.

All of the information you provided them was readily available. If they're too lazy to look into the issues or too gullible to the garbage spewed by the likes of Rush, Glenn, and Fox, you're not going to change their minds no matter how hard you try, simply because they don't want them changed.

The examples you provided are a perfect reflection of this. If your friends really thought that the Republican position on HC reform was the same as the Democratic one, they must have missed the GOP's constant howling about it that was on every news channel for months that was clear proof to the contrary. Communism, socialism, fascism, blah, blah, blah.

They didn't miss it, of course. No one could have, especially people whose source of news is TV. They're simply buying the spin and repeating what they heard.

Same thing on the bailouts. I love the "oh, we forgot about the Bush bailouts" routine. Fox News revisionist history, mission accomplished!

That's nothing but ignorance, and it has nothing to do with political cover. They just believe what the TV tells them to believe.

[sabrina 1]

23. If Democrats had put up a fight, clearly stating their positions

on Health Care, eg, Obama eg was opposed to mandated insurance, a Republican idea, during the campaign, then my friends would seen that on the news. That was NOT on the news because Democrats did not fight, at least the WH did not.

The American public was overwhelmingly against the bail-outs, the public did get that message as they understand helping out corrupt Wall St. bankers who brought this economy to its knees. As a result, the public's understanding of that issue caused Congress to vote against them. So, information going to the public has a direct effect on their opinions. But then, Congress was threatened into voting for it, so the people were ignored.

Obama himself admitted that he had put 'over 200 Republican ideas' into the HC bill. He was making the point that it made no sense for them not to vote for it.

It did make sense. They didn't want their party associated with what they knew was not popular, while at the same time getting a lot of what they wanted. This bill is very similar to Romney's bill and the Republican's bill from the 'nineties'. The public again overwhelmingly supported some kind of National HC system, such as Medicare for all. Once again, the public was ignored.

My friends were reacting to what was on the news. There was no news to report about Democrats fighting hard to give the Public what they wanted. There was no fight from this WH for a PO and no fight to stop the foreclosures or do anything else that would equal the help they gave to Wall St. for the little people.

It is what it is. The people get crumbs, Wall St. gets trillions. And once again, now, Bush Tax extended, SS likely to be cut. People DO get these things and it's become harder and harder to defend. Quite frankly where I used to fight like crazy for Democrats, now I just try to avoid talking about the whole mess.

[pleah]

14. Yes. n/t

[bigtree]

18. can he forge a coalition to preserve the middle-class cuts?

. . . and get that passed?

[Dappleganger]

20. Kill the bill!

This is as bad as bailing out the banks.

[jtrockville]

21. Are you referring to Bush's tax policy as a "compromise"?

[readmoreoften]

24. Good catch.