I'm gonna say this once. Rape in Sweden is defined differently than in the US

[xultar]

It is correct for news models to say he is being sought for Rape because in SWEDEN they define it differently than we do here..

Please pass it on so we don't have any more...why do they keep calling it rape posts.

Thank you...and good night.

[AtomicKitten]

1. I'm still trying to figure out "sex by surprise." Boo! nt

[xultar]

5. If and when I have sex again let's revisit this issue.

[AtomicKitten]

26. well okay then

[hlthe2b]

2. And I am going to say once again. It is IRRESPONSIBLE and

lousy journalism for US newspapers to not report that distinction, to explain the differences and thus to term it "rape" without doing so.

THANK YOU and good night.

[snagglepuss]

22. Exactly.

:applause:

[lob1]

3. Tell us how rape is defined so we can understand why

Sweden wants him. And, no matter what the definition, didn't the US pressure Sweden to do it in the first place?

[xultar]

4. You are mixing way tooooooooo much into one simple issue. He is being charged

With rape in Sweden.

That is all I'm talking about. You wanna argue the other shit start your own thread. Yes all that other shit may be true. But rape in sweden isn't defined the same as we do it here. A fact is a fact.

[FourScore]

6. So how is it defined? You haven't told us yet. n/t

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Powdered Toast Man]

13. Was that necessary? Really?

I mean, if you posted the thread you obviously know. Would it have been any more effort to just answer his/her question than to snark? Come on now, I know we're all on edge right now, but that was a pretty harmless question.

[Powdered Toast Man]

10. Sex without condoms and Withdrawl of consent...

I love google...

Feministe's Jill Filipovic, a lawyer, says it could be considered "withdrawal of consent," which is a form of sexual assault, if the sex became non-consensual during the act. In the first case, when his condom broke, Assange refused his partner's request to stop, which made his act assault. In the second case, "condom use was negotiated for and Assange agreed to wear a condom but didn’t, and the woman didn’t realize it until after they had sex." Filipovic says "withdrawal of consent" is often considered rape in Sweden, but is often not in the U.S., which may be why U.S. observers seem not to believe the charges.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Julian-Assange-Rape-Charges-Serious-Crime-or-Anti-WikiLeaks-Conspiracy-6080

[xultar]

Now you've done it you'll be up half the night defending this...and deflecting accusations

That you are a part of the problem that caused them to hunt the hero doode down.

[Powdered Toast Man]

16. Really? lol. okay. n/t

[xultar]

18. See post #3

[Powdered Toast Man]

19. gotcha, lol

[SpiralHawk]

33. Those are her allegations

Not necessarily the facts.

[Write Left]

20. Is the word RAPE even used in Sweden?

[Maru Kitteh]

Do you think a rape in Sweden is a less despicable act than a rape in the US?

That seems relevant and answerable.

[xultar]

9. Nope. Each country defines their own cut off and their definition is fine with me.

When I go there I will have to not break there laws as written, not as I define them based on my life in the us.

[Powdered Toast Man]

15. Sweden defines rape as something else.

That is what the OP is saying... without explaining what they define it as. look up-thread. I put a link.

[HEyHEY]

8. However, those differences should be defined in the article. Or refered to as "sex charges"

Just for clarity. Though, as I said earlier, I'm not seeing many papers calling it "rape" now anyway. THough most on DU want it to say "Arrested cause he's being persecuted by 'them'".

[xultar]

11. I'm just giving the fact. What u think it should say isn't part of my gig tonight

I appreciate and understand what you are saying but it has no bearing on what I'm saying in this thread.

[hlthe2b]

12. It has actually been television and other electronic media...

that has been referring to it as rape. You are right, HeyHey that the newspapers are being more careful now that some of the facts are starting to come out, though they did start out echoing the term "rape."

[Write Left]

14. You're totally wrong.

Swedish laws are presumably written in Swedish. Any translations of the law must take into consideration the nuances of language and culture. It has nothing to do with the definition of anything.

[xultar]

17. Mmmmk

[Write Left]

21. I'll make it easy for you. Provide a link to a Swedish article that uses the word RAPE.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. The Swedish prosecutor's office was using it, on its English page

See eg http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9703364&mesg_id=9703397

http://www.aklagare.se/In-English/
The matter concerning Mr. Assange

Julian Assange has been detained in his absence charged with rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. Mr Assange had appealed the detention decision issued by Svea Court of Appeal.

Today the Supreme Court has taken a decision not to grant Julian Assange leave to appeal. If the Supreme Court is to hear an appeal, leave to appeal must first be granted. Leave to appeal is only granted if the case is assessed as being very important to the application of the law or if other extraordinary reasons apply.

The arrest warrant is based on the detention decision that has now been examined by all three legal instances. The additional information requested by the British Police concerns the penalties for the other crimes, in addition to rape, that Julian Assange was arrested for. This information will be supplied immediately. The previous arrest warrant stands.

The wording on that page has since been updated. But you can find it quoted elsewhere on the net; there is no doubt that the Swedish authorities were, until Monday at least, calling it 'rape' in English.

[msanthrope]

30. The Swedish prosecutor was using the word in court today--rape, sexual molestation, and unlawful

coercion...

I am wondering why so many people here have difficulty understanding that having sex with a sleeping woman is a crime....

"Mr Assange faces two counts of sexual molestation, one count of unlawful coercion and one count of rape involving two women in Sweden in August.

In the most details yet released about the allegations, Ms Lindfield said that in the cases of both women the allegations related to him refusing to wear a condom during sex. He was also accused of having sex with one of the women by exploiting the fact that she was asleep, and another count said that he had held a woman's arms and forced open her legs so he could have sex with her."

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/julian-assange-in-jail-on-rape-charge/story-e6frg12c-1225967408063

[TorchTheWitch]

23. technically we define it the same way here in the US

The difference being that here in the US we don't prosecute those people accused of consensual sex that became non-consensual particularly when the person making the allegations doesn't really feel like they've been raped. Even in the most heinous obvious rape allegations here if the victim isn't willing to prosecute there isn't going to be any charges. Here in the US when it comes to rape we're legally more interested in blaming the victim... she shouldn't have worn that outfit, she shouldn't have been in the neighborhood alone and at night, she got drunk, she's promiscuous, etc., etc., etc.

Good for Sweden that they recognize the necessity of rape charges for those of us that have been technically raped even when we don't really feel like we have because some asshole thinks they can do whatever they want to you when you consent to having sex with them including ignoring your stipulations and pleas to stop or when you aren't in any position to be capable of giving consent at all in the first place like when unconscious.

Applauding the US's archaic and misogynist ways of dealings with the crime of rape is revolting.

[Bryn]

24. I am also baffled.

How is it called rape when actually it was just making love or having sex with both partners' contentment? First they called it rape, then called it against law without condom, now they just wanted him tested for SID. What a mess! He's being set up. We are watching to make sure he's all right, not "accident" or "suicide" ...

Our turn to laugh! Remember when French laughed because of Clinton's oral sex in his Oval Office? They thought it was silly that Americans (Ken Starr) made a big deal out of it.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jeanpalmer]

27. The Swedes don't define rape

because that particular word is not in their language. It's also not in their statutes. There are Swedish words for various sex crimes, but rape isn't one of them. Assange isn't charged with "rape." Therefore, it's slanderous to say he is.

Even in the English language rape does not have a universal definition. Its meaning depends on the definition given to it by statute in a particular jurisdiction. The definition varies. What Assange did would not qualify as rape, using the narrowest most universal definition.

Accusing him of rape is the work of sloppy people who don't mind smearing someone. Of course, that's what it is intended to be.

[msanthrope]

29. According to the Swedish representative in court today, he is indeed being charged with rape.

Sexual molestion, and unlawful coercion, along with rape.

Now, granted, Sweden uses the concept of sexual integrity.

But having sex with women who can't give you consent is also a crime in the US.

One of the allegations is that he had sex with a woman who was sleeping. That's a woman who cannot give consent.

Tell me why you have a problem with that.

[PeaceNikki]

31. I can't believe anyone would call him either innocent or guilty of anything at this point.

We don't know the facts. It could be a bullshit conspiracy or he could be guilty. It's being investigated and I certainly won't participate in a smear campaign against the women at this juncture nor will I assume his guilt.

The attorneys' accounts coincide with the stories being passed around but they also say that there are things that happened that have not been made public yet. Thankfully, in most places, judges and/or juries get all of the details before declaring guilt or innocence.

A buncha Bill Fristing going on around this place. Internet sleuths who think they know every goddamn thing about every goddamn thing.

[HEyHEY]

35. I think his accusers are witches and should be burned

One of them turned me into a newt....... I got better..

[Skip Intro]

32. Well if you're going to start a thread with those assertions, I'd at least expect an explaination

of how "rape" is defined in Sweden, and how that definition is different from our own.

[lightningandsnow]

34. If I withdraw consent in the middle of sex, and my partner keeps going, that's rape.

If someone tells you to stop, you stop. If you keep going, that is not consensual.

If that's not considered rape in North America, perhaps we need to broaden our legal definition of rape.