We are too fucking soft, too fucking spoiled...

[Joe Fields]

We wring our hands, we whine, whimper and pout, while French and Brits take to the streets.

We wonder where our freedoms are going, while Europeans actually demonstrate and riot.

It makes me sick.

Where is the activism of the 60's when we need it the most?

[bigwillq]

1. Take the lead.

What's stopping you?

[Joe Fields]

3. I would gladly take the lead, but the fact is that people here in this country,

just haven't suffered enough.

I wonder what exactly it will take?

[bigwillq]

6. I think, for some, they feel it won't help (nt)

[Occam Bandage]

7. The fallback of the armchair revolutionary everywhere.

"No, really, I'm totally committed to it, but, you know, everyone else is just so complacent..."

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[county worker]

12. I used to think that people here would go into the streets but I think

the reason we don't is because we are so divided politically. It will take a bit of time but when the tea baggers finally learn that we are not their enemy, they will join in the fight.

The wealthy will tell you that jobs are at stake if you don't give them more wealth, then they ship jobs overseas. At the tipping point the majority of people will be poor. Even then it will be a brave few who are willing to die for their beliefs who will take it to the streets.

[Joe Fields]

16. a lot of truth to that statement.

Part of the problem, (and a huge part) is the sophistication of the message machine.

[county worker]

19. I have noticed that people who fight for change do not expect to take advantage

of a positive outcome if that what comes of it. They fight for the ideal and for a better life for the next generation. That's why they are willing to risk their lives.

Look at India during Gandhi's struggle and the civil rights movement in this country for examples.

There is a Tao thing that sort of goes like this. When people have nothing to lose they are not afraid to die and can't be ruled.

[Joe Fields]

22. I wonder when we will reach that point?

I view Americans these days as the "frogs slowly boiling in water."

[county worker]

30. I am 64 and I am glad I lived when I did. I don't envy younger people because

they will have it worse then we did. I think it will happen in the life time of the second generation after mine.

[readmoreoften]

23. It's not about dying in the streets or being a martyr.

It's about building a mass movement that can take to the streets like they do in other countries. The reason why they do this in other countries and we don't is because they have actual leftists and leftist organizations in their countries. In Europe or Latin America a trade union is considered right-wing if they're apolitical and not in the streets. Here, a trade union is considered left-wing for even existing. Even if all it does is lobby Democrats to little or no effect.

[Joe Fields]

24. thank you. I can see your point.

[county worker]

31. When the people take to the streets in this country, there will be blood shed.

If it happens, it will be when the rich have all the wealth and they will kill to keep it.

[Joe Fields]

34. It will happen. And sooner than later.

[Mimosa]

37. I think we're secretly too intimidated to take to the streets.

Back when many of us were protesting the Vietnam war, we had less to lose. We didn't own homes, we weren't desperate to keep jobs or employment from which an arrest record would exclude us or prevent us from getting.

And back then the cops didn't have tasers. Tasers which they have shown themselves increasingly willing to use. Not to mention those light tanks to project microwaves upon crowds. Why did 'they' develop them anyway? The background in this photo looks like GA, Fort benning. (I live in ATL GA).



The European governments won't do stuff like that to their citizens, will they?

[readmoreoften]

20. Okay, but stop with the "haven't suffered enough" meme. We take to the streets all the time.

We just have a so-called liberal class who poo-poo all attempts to take to the streets or call you "rich" or "spoiled" for doing so, not to mention conservatives who call you the enemy of the people, while the rest of the world actually just gets into the streets.

But we do protest.

We have the One Nation March this fall: about 200K
The National LGBT March on Washington: 200K.
In fact, we have organizations that are so "dangerous" that in Minnesota, three people are being held on "terrorist" charges for organizing. This is in the same area where the RNC 2008 protests occurred and hundreds were abused, tortured, and in a few cases sexually assaulted by the police.

We fight in America too. There are protests going on constantly. Most cities have a May Day march--even small ones. Do you go?

The real issue is that our unions are "big business unions" and not politicized unions as they have in Europe. Upper union bureaucracy often acts like Obama-style "management". The rank and file always need to push their leaders to the left and simultaneously fight their own fights. Happily this is getting better, a little anyway, with the new generation of younger up-and-coming labor leaders.

But part of the problem is this "peaceful protest" at all costs stuff. People here act like breaking a window is as bad as austerity cuts in education. There's a time and a place for everything. Breaking a window at a small protest is stupid. But in a general strike, if some windows get broken, who gives a shit?

Also-- with the "we haven't suffered enough" stuff. We've suffered plenty. We just don't have the organizational forces that Europe has. This is in part due to the fact that the entire progressive block is stockholm syndromed by the Democratic Party. In Europe, for instance, the Socialist Workers Party has 250,000 members. Not a lot, but way more than in the US. In Latin America, leftist organization have tens of millions of people. Our big "fighting force" is the Democratic Party... and that has gotten us precisely nowhere. I'm not saying don't vote for a Democratic if the candidate is good. I'm just saying that the people are more important than some political brand that purports to fight against a "big evil" while generally conceding to the evil it purports to fight.

First, we have to start with respecting and not minimizing the efforts already at hand.

[snooper2]

35. my Wi

I swear it has a hold on my soul :)



stop it~!








stop!






I'm trying tooo Ty pEE





aaahHHHHHHHHH!! fadsfjkjliio

[MadMaddie]

2. Joe you have a point but what I want to know

is why isn't anger directed towards the Republicans? They once agains stopped help for our 9/11 workers health compensation....they blocked DADT...

Can someone tell me why the rage that we see here Directed at President Obama isn't directed at the Republicans and the infectual Reid?

I am not asking about your anger towards President Obama that's obvious.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tekisui]

5. For one thing, people don't have money to travel.

Those with jobs can't afford to take time off.

As long a teevee, internet and food is relatively cheap, we'll all sit in silence and fear of losing more.

[Drale]

9. I'm sorry its to cold to be protesting in the street right now

there is a reason Ireland's Marching Season is during the summer. I know your going to say thats pure laziness but theres a reason we live in houses and have heat.

[leftstreet]

10. Interestingly enough, they have more to lose than we do

National health plans, pensioner and worker protections, shit! longer vacations

[Joe Fields]

13. I'm not an expert in the domestic affairs of said european countries,

But I know what's at stake here in my country, and I cannot believe that there aren't mass demonstrations down Pennsylvania Avenue, on college campuses throughout this land and extreme pressure put on EVERY one of our elected officials.

[leftstreet]

15. I'm not surprised at all

There's absolutely no class consciousness here in the US. As long as people can see someone on the ladder beneath them, they think they're 'middle class' and doing okay.

But I understand what you're saying, and it's tragic

[readmoreoften]

25. So much for "we'll have to suffer more before we fight back."

That is maybe the single-handed most destructive myth of the progressive. It only gets harder the longer you don't fight back. Fighting back isn't an event. It's a lifelong process.

[leftstreet]

26. ...

For a moment in recent time, the single payer advocates were galvanizing an actual movement. I followed it quite a bit, but after the PNHP arrests in Congress...it lost its exposure. Kinda weird

[Joe Fields]

28. Personally, I agree, but it seems as though Americans are now waiting

for the end game to come, before they decide to get involved. Of course, by then it will be too late.

To make the kind of impact we need to make, we should be massively taking to the streets right now...

[Blue-Jay]

11. Fuckity fuck!

[ZombieHorde]

14. I admit it, you are talking about me. I make you sick.

Where is my Playstation 3? She never judges me.

[Greyhound]

17. Hang in there Joe, it's coming.

More than soft & spoiled, we live in our own personal fantasies. We pretend that those casualties that have fallen before us are somehow different than we are.

As those fantasies are interrupted by reality's intrusion, we will get really pissed, probably too pissed...

[Joe Fields]

18. god bless you, my friend.

I will see you on the front lines of the great battle for the soul of our nation.!

[SoCalDem]

21. Europeans have something that we DON'T

They have government health care..guaranteed
they have government pensions...guaranteed
they have "redundancy pay"...guaranteed
they have 6 wks paid vacations (sometimes, more)
they have government sponsored maternity leave
they have reasonably priced college (until now)

they have a SAFETY NET... It's theirs.. When their government starts to "act up", and threatens to take it away from them, the people will rise up to protect what they HAVE.

We don't have those things..Protesting in order to convince someone to do something for people you don't know (and perhaps yourself, if you are lucky) is not the same as a "for sure" effort to take something you already have, away.

[Joe Fields]

32. All the more reason to rise up, since we don't have all those things.

Don't you agree?

[SoCalDem]

39. agree...BUT it's easier to get angry people in the streets to keep what they have

than to get confused people in the streets to try to get something for someone else..

No one in DC pays any attention to poor people these days:(

Middles & uppers don't have "the fear" just yet..

[readmoreoften]

27. If we're so spoiled, how come the Europeans, who have much more than us can organize and fight back?

They actually have protections and a decent life. And we're "spoiled"? One out of 7 Americans is on food stamps. One out of 20 Texans is homeless. We're not spoiled. We're abused, propaganized, immiserated, oppressed, and terrified. But mostly, we don't have any left organizations (student, worker, anything) that has the will or ability or size to take up mass struggle. Other countries have this. They also never had McCarthy.

[Joe Fields]

41. Do Europeans really have more than we do?

[jakefrep]

29. Whatever.

What the hell are we supposed to be protesting?

[Joe Fields]

33. You all know it's true. It's no secret.

DWTS, and a thousand different other television programs, the MY SPACE, FACEBOOK, phenomenon...etc...

[Quantess]

36. "soft" and "spoiled" are wrong word choices.

complacent and ignorant is more like it.

Working class Americans are not soft, nor are they spoiled. We are some of the hardest working people on earth. Most Americans are not spoiled, but we are too trusting and obedient.

[jannyk]

38. In most, if not all, European countries, the government can be brought down

by the populace, if the uprising is large enough and sustained enough. In most, if not all, the governments have been brought to their knees by the populace - so the hope and belief exists that it can be done again. The governments there live somewhat in fear of the people - in the US the attitude is somewhat reversed.

Here you are stuck with what got elected for the duration, no matter what they do - 'W' being the perfect example. There is no method or history here of removing incompetent, corrupt, weak or fascist administrations, no matter how many take to the streets.

[Joe Fields]

40. it is much harder