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So, the Commies have blocked every news organization here today

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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 12:38 AM
Original message
So, the Commies have blocked every news organization here today
Cause of Liu Xiabo. I love how the Chinese government keeps fucking up in their pathetic attempts to save face. This stunt has REALLY backfired on them.

Whenever I see people defending them I just think, "You've probably never had to live here." Say what you want about things with Assange and such, which I agree is wrong the way it's been handled. However, at least the US government would never get away with blatantly BLOCKING the BBC cause they were airing a story that the government didn't agree with.

Sigh, and this country thinks it's gonna run the world someday, what a joke.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. Compared with the US reaction to Wikileaks....
hmmm... sorry but the similarities are far too similar for my comfort and rather astonishing.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. If the US threw assange in prison for writing a blog criticising them, you'd have a point
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I honestly don't know why he is in prison...
Edited on Fri Dec-10-10 12:53 AM by hlthe2b
but it has been rather obvious that the US is in three-way discussions with G. Britain and Sweden to try to keep him there until they can figure out a way to charge and extradict him. Given that the Swedes have never charged him with anything, I just don't know how anyone can look at this situation and not see the big hypocritical undemocratic hand of the US government on the scales. I don't know if Assange is guilty of sexual assault or anything else, but what I do know is true democracies do not imprison in the absence of charges being filed. Granted, we dropped out of that definition of "democracy" a long time ago--certainly after 911.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yeah, but what he did, I believe, will not come out as illegal in court
They can throw bullshit trumped up accusations at him, but I doubt they'll stick. Xiabo, however, never had a chance.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. True, that...
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. he's in prison because he's fighting his extradition
Simple as that. He could have avoided all this by just going back to Sweden and answering their questions and not have fled the country in the first place. If that one prosecutor in Sweden hadn't fucked up by not bothering to talk to him when he was in custody after having been arrested this would likely all have been overwith last August. Sweden CAN'T charge him with anything until their investigation is complete, which they can't do because that one idiot prosecutor, Eva Finn, never bothered to talk to him and just dropped the warrant and let him go knowing he was a flight risk and before she had made up her mind on whether or not there should be any other sex crime charges other than rape. Sweden is OBLIGATED to complete their investigation, and since they can't do that without having questioned him, and he wouldn't go back for questioning voluntarily they didn't have any other choice but to go through with extradition. With the epic fuck ups in how the case was handled by Finn, is it any wonder that the chief prosecutor had to review what happened and take over? Sweden got a lot of egg on their face for all this.

Anyone that actually bothers to look into what happened at the time it was happening can pretty easily see that there is no invisible hand of US that has anything to do with this... it's a classic epic fuck up by people in the prosecution authority and with the Swedish press all over it like white on rice since the very day he was arrested they looked like idiots and are trying to redeem their own reputation within their own country.

Despite the fuck ups which also included having the case filed as a harassment issue in error from the beginning (which causes an entirely different mode of investigation) the case was never closed, no prosecutor ever dropped all the warrant charges, and Assange is still obligated to cooperate with Swedish authorities. I totally understand his being dismayed and pissed off in how they fucked up the initial handling of the case, but he got off lucky that he was never questioned and released so he could leave the country before the investigation was complete and before all the warrant charges were dropped.

That's how the situation came to be what it is now - no need for any US "dirty tricks" which Assange ran to the press with the very moment he was released in Sweden - less than 24 hours after his arrest. And no wonder he's so fond of the "smear campaign" MO - it WORKS. His attorneys would like everyone to believe that he hung out in Sweden for weeks wanting to talk to authorities concerning the case who inexplicably ignored him (while they were looking for him!), but information from the time that all this was actually happening he fled the country the moment he was released from custody on the 21st of August and went straight to the press from his "undisclosed location". Come on, does anyone actually believe that while he's screaming "smear campaign" and "they're out to get me" all over the press while still having charges hanging over his head he'd actually stick around in Sweden and NOT leave the country when there's nothing stopping him from doing so? Hell, that's exactly what I would have done, and of course I would have if I was innocent and actually believed that anyone was out to get me. Yet now his attorneys expect people to believe that he hung around for weeks wanting to talk to authorities? That they inexplicably ignored him WHILE they were trying to find him and looking like ding-a-lings for not ever talking to him while they had him in custody and letting him go with pending charges knowing he was going to flee the country that their own press was lambasting them over? Yeah, sure.

I gotta hand it to him for being this good at working his own PR. Of course, he's too obvious about it and can't get rid of what information there was available at the time for anyone that really bothers to look dig for it. And I have to admit that I do rather like how he's managed to make Wikileaks look with this MO. What I don't like is that it's looking more and more like it's going to backfire on him and do it hard dragging down Wikileaks with him.

If the US, Sweden and Britain are talking now about extradition to the US he really has no one to blame but himself. He let it get to this point. Had he just not fled the country and cooperated back in August it's pretty likely that this would have all been over and done with back then and never have gotten anywhere near this point. Sweden gets him first, and I don't see any way the US is going to get around that especially since they don't even have any reason for him to be extradited to the US. And Sweden wants him. The prosecution authority got major egg on their faces with how badly the whole case was handled from the beginning and they're looking to redeem themselves especially after how they got trashed in their press over it. And naturally, they'll do it the same way any other legal system would - cracking the whip and being all "tough on crime". Sweden has first dibs even if the US can come up with any kind of reason to have him extradited to the US that anyone will agree with, and that's just the way it is.

For the record, I'm not seeing any legitimate reason for the US to charge him with anything concerning the documents even though they were stolen. I think it's obvious they're just pissed off they're being leaked, and they look stupid in gunning for him while not doing the same for anyone connected with Wikileaks and anyone connected with any other outlet that's leaked them as well. If they went after everyone, they might have a point, but only going after him and for no legal reason I can see (and they can't see either at this point) they just look like angry crybabies that DON'T have any legal reason for doing so, which is classic illegitimate persecution.

However, I'm also not all that happy with how Wikileaks has handled the leaks themselves. So far, most of what they've put out has no redeeming reason to have been and isn't covered under any whistleblower definition. You can only be a whistleblower if you're exposing information that shows some kind of illegality or corruption and most of these docs so far don't, and there wasn't any need for the public to know what they contained. This is not something I've ever seen Wikileaks do before, and it's disturbing. Any time before that I've seen they only leaked that information that DID show some sort of illegality or corruption and WAS in the public interest to know. Even the most free of presses always have to balance what it is they print against the risk of printing it along with the public's level of need to know. The list of vital infrastructure really disturbs be because it's not only too risky to have out in the public but because there is no reason for the public at large to know it - the public doesn't gain anything in knowing it and the risk of it being used against not only the US but other countries of the world is far too dangerous.


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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. Sorry, TTW, but you are preaching unfounded assertions...
Edited on Fri Dec-10-10 08:59 AM by hlthe2b
I realize you have a personal issue and experience that comes to bear here and I truly wish you well, but think it best not to engage with you on this issue again.

Peace
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. Interestlngly enough, the WikiLeak documents are available for Amazon's Kindle.
But only at UK Amazon. It's NOT listed at US Amazon, Canada Amazon, or even Japan Amazon! (That's as far as I had checked so far)

Here's the UK Amazon listing: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004EEOLIU?ie=UTF8&ref_=sr_1_2&s=books&qid=1291847557&sr=8-2&linkCode=shr&camp=3194&creative=21330&tag=matstmeuk-21
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Recent update to my above posting:
Author Pulls WikiLeaks E-Book from Amazon

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2374138,00.asp
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. Ditto
The pot cannot call kettle black - they are all preventing transparency.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. China is not communist
China is a capitalists wet dream
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I agree, but they still call themselves that, and I'm refuse to refer to "China"
As the place making the decisions, it's an insult to the Chinese people to consider the communists their government.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
27. The PRC is actually the best government the Chinese people have ever been able to assemble.
That might not seem impressive, but one should really consider how fucked up china was in the first half of the 20th century.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. With much accuracy, (mainland) China is frequently termed on DU as
"The People's Republic Of Walmart"

And the Murdoch Noise Empire had gone to great lengths to be "accommodating"
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MattSh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
30. Yep...
China runs the type of operation that US capitalists want in the USA.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. "Communist China" - what ludicrous propaganda. unrec for ridiculousness

and rw undertones.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Right wing undertones? For advocating freedom of information?
Instead of defending these fucks, why don't you listen to what I actually said in my post instead of the tongue in cheek use of the term "commies"
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. if you were advocating FOI, it was hopelessly lost in your OP.

I'm ALL for FOI. Feel free to try again.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Only lost cause you can't read? Come on
Edited on Fri Dec-10-10 01:06 AM by HEyHEY
I'm blatantly pissing and moaning because news organizations are blocked on the web here cause of a particular story they are carrying. How on earth does that not come across? Oh, cause it does and you're pretending it's not cause I used the word "commies" to be a bit glib. That's what you're pissed about. THAT.

You sound like a Chinese government official yourself. Ignore what's being said, find the smallest thing to piss and moan about to deflect the argument and then try to make the other person out to be the bad guy to simply stifle any progress. I'm going to do it to you now.

Why do you hate chinese people, you don't want them free? How come?
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. lol. lighten up, seriously. i think we're on the same side, mate. eom
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I know, sorry
:P
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
28. It was the central thrust of the OP. You just read the headline and jerked your knee.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
11. haiii yaaaaaaaa
Edited on Fri Dec-10-10 01:05 AM by AsahinaKimi
China = *sa sa der pi gu! (I love learning new phrases!)

*silly butt.


Wo hue to dou wu dan shan!!
(will kick down Wudan mountain!) :D
(from the movie Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon)
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. "Wo hui ti Wudan Shan"
FTFY ;)
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. Did you see the Confucious Peace Awards?
I heard about it on CBC radio tonight. THAT was bizarre.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. The best part is how the guy they awarded it to didn't show.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
20. They are, though.
Be frightened, not amused.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. No they won't
Too backward, too stubborn. India will eventually surpass them. After spending two years here it has become obvious to me they won't ever be able to do it.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. Well, as Obama would remind you, take the long view.
It isn't tomorrow they'll take over, or next month, but a decade or two could get them where they need to be. And we're rapidly paving the way so that totalitarianism won't seem so foreign. Their languages will seem foreign but we'll get used to it in a century or so.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
24. China continues to remind everyone it's the world's #1 human rights violator.
I agree with your assessment. China is utterly delusional if it thinks it is anywhere close to being a world leader in anything but suppression of rights.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
25. Remember when no US president would say China without mentioning their imprisoned Catholic priests?
Edited on Fri Dec-10-10 06:24 AM by NNN0LHI
I think we have more priests in prison then they do now so we don't mention that any more.

Don
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