Is it just me, or are there an awful lot of Anti-Dem posts on DU lately?

[johnaries]

Don't get me wrong - I don't think Progressives should become the Sheep that Conservatives are and we should hold our Representatives accountable.

I also do not like accusing people of being "trolls" even though DU has definitely had it's share of trolls and we now know that the Repukes hire professional trolls to disrupt forums like DU.

I also understand that there is a lot of frustration on DU because we were hoping to get more accomplished sooner (which is more of a reflection on our expectations than the people we elected - we must have realistic expectations and a little PATIENCE!).

However, when I see repeated postings on someone's house - whether it belongs to Al Gore, John Edwards, or Diane Feinstein - trying to solicit a "gut reaction" without any substance...

When I keep seeing rants against Dems base on gut reactions without any substance....

Folks, we are Progressives because we use discussion, logic, and - as Al Gore would say - REASON to make our arguments.

We must be aware that there are those who want to divide us and create dissent. That is the classic modus operandi of the Republican party and, indeed, all Imperialistic parties - spread dissent, divide, and conquer.

Real Change Takes Time. Don't let your temporary frustrations allow Those who Want To Control Us to create a wedge and divide us so that we become ineffective.

In 2006 we captured a hill. We have a long, hard battle in front of us before we win the war. It won't be won in a day. Keep your Eyes on the Prize. Never Give Up.

Don't allow the enemy to play upon your frustrations and defeat you.

NEVER GIVE UP!

[Kagemusha]

1. It's really, really simple. They didn't stop the war.

So even the ones who voted against the damned war funding bill are getting attacked because their votes weren't good enough, because they were expected to work a miracle on Senators far, far senior to they, for example...

[Erika]

5. Dems voted yes to allow our kids to continue be cannon fodder

Durbin made me want to vomit on his statement he "had" to suppport the funding to support our troops. BS.

He supported the deaths of more of our troops and I'm sick of it.

[Kagemusha]

7. But I mean even the ones who actually voted no are being hit just as hard.

I understand the emotional math but my logical head says that's taking it a leap too far.

But in general? Oh yeah, I can see why DU'ers would be unhappy with congressional and Senate Democrats right now. That is quite plain.

[johnaries]

13. They were expected to work a "miracle". EXACTLY!

The 2006 Election was a Mandate. However, not ALL seats were in the election, and we only won a bare majority - not enough to overcome a veto or even a filibuster.

We HOPED that the incumbent Republicans would recognize the mandate and - in fear of their jobs for the next election - actually vote the will of the people.

Obviously, we underestimated the willingness of the Republicans to vote against their constituent's best interests and wishes.

[MadHound]

79. No, not a miracle,

Just to fulfill that mandate to end the war, doing so by any means necessary. So far we have one non-binding resolution, one veto and one Democratic cave in. Yet all along the means to end this war lies in the Dems hands, defunding the war. They control the committees, the control the agenda, they control the purse strings. It is passed time that the Dems used this option. This isn't a miracle people are asking for, but a workable strategy that Pelosi and the Dem leadership took off the table before Congress was even seated.

Instead, Bush can get his war on for another three months or more, with the attendant death, destruction and pain. And in due course, the Dems will once again bluster, and again cave in, for they refuse to use the one effective tool left to them, the power of the purse.

Even a Fox poll found that more Americans are in favor of defunding the war than are against it<http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/030107_Bush_Iraq_Iran_web.pdf>.

This isn't time to play politics as usual, for the situation isn't usual. It is time, past time that the Dems stood up and fought back, using every single tool at their disposal. This is what we pay them for, this is why we elect them to office. It is time that they started doing their job. I am required to do my job each and every single work day, It is time that these people, who we pay and empower started doing their job and represent the will of the people instead of personal or corporate interest.

We're not asking them for a miracle, we're asking them to do their job. What, is that too much to ask?

[MistressOverdone]

25. Maybe your expectations were too high

for this early in the game? The numbers are after all, what it comes down to and we just don't have enough yet.

[Kagemusha]

33. The problem with that is people asking, well what'd we vote them in for?

If even a firm House majority and a slender Senate majority makes Democrats absolutely powerless to stop Bush's war because of fear of being called names during the recess starting on Memorial Day, what was the point of it all? Passing minimum wage? A little extra money for Katrina and veterans health care? Student loans? What?

Those may be good things, independent of the war stuff, but they are EMPHATICALLY NOT what a lot of people voted for Democrats for. And even if we buy into how "a lot of people voted in regards to the Culture of Corruption," since the election the public's opposition to the war has only deepened and hardened.

And the Democrats in Congress are utterly, completely powerless. And without radical measures, which they are not willing to entertain seriously, they always would be. That's why one blogger, as I recall, predicted with sad accuracy that the result would be that the Democrats would buy, and thus own, the war, by winning the Congress but losing their freedom of opposition. (Ah. Yes. It was Billmon.)

Well, life goes on, but we'd all be a pack of fools to pretend like the public is OK with hearing excuses about "we just don't have the numbers". The quip, "Got Spine?" comes to mind.

[MistressOverdone]

44. I admit I am a novice

in all this and I admire your passion, but doesn't the REAL power come once we can override the veto?

[Kagemusha]

46. No, vetoes basically don't get overridden in this system

The real power comes from winning the next Presidential election. We're staring at a wasted 18 months until then.

[A wise Man]

56. Not to mention the mounting "DEATH TOLLS"

that will occur in that time, while Bush and his oil friends just keeps on laughing at us.

[sellitman]

2. My powder is dry

I just wish it would stop raining.

[NV Whino]

3. When the Dems start being Dems

the anti "dem" posts will stop.

[babylonsister]

4. Yes, I was disappointed along with many. We'll move on. nt

[Anywho6]

11. Amen!!!! n/t

[StefanX]

60. Exacto

nt

[Buzz Clik]

6. I would judge that more than 50% of the post have been anti-Dem.

This is an amazing turn. During my first week as a newby at DU, I got into a dustup with some other posters concerning Al Gore. I eventually criticized Gore soundly for a couple of aspects of his 2000 campaign, and I was immediately given a two-week vacation.

If we applied those same standards to the posting activities of the past 48 hours, DU would be a lot quieter.

[Rosemary2205]

20. I would politely suggest

it's probably not a great idea to hand out too many vacations during a fund drive. :)

Seriously though, I've been here for a couple of flapfests -- one of them even as a flapper -- and I'm grateful that when something happens that really gets everyone's hackles up DU leadership tries hard to just let us all hash it out and just step in as a referee every now and then.


BTW -- you questioned the perfection of saint Al your first week??? Damn that's brave -- or really stooopit. LOL :)


EDIT -- wish the fingers were connected to the brain.

[Buzz Clik]

36. Thank you for a rational post. As per your question:

... you questioned the perfection of saint Al your first week???? Damn that's brave -- or really stooopit.

There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, and where I fell wasn't given much analysis. I was just gone. I was more rabidly anti-Bush than pro-Gore, and I donated twice to the legal fund during the Florida recount. So, when Bush eventually emerged, I was more furious than mournful. Blaming Al was viewed as bad form. :eyes:

(For the record, the 2000 campaign embittered my better half to a much greater degree. She declared to me today that if Gore announces and wins the nomination, she will not vote for him under any circumstances. sigh...)

[kiteinthewind]

55. And exactly how would your 'better half' suggest he override the SCOTUS?

Just wonderin'
:shrug:

[Buzz Clik]

57. No, you missed the point.

She was a big Gore supporter, and felt he did the right thing during the 2000 Florida mess. However, she was very unimpressed with his campaign against one of the most incompetent, ridiculous candidates to ever run for president of the US. She also feels that his actions over the past 4 years have taken this to another level of goofiness, and she has simply given up no him.

[Madspirit]

58. Question

What are Al's actions of the last four years that makes her give up on him? Just curious.
Lee

[kiteinthewind]

62. "Goofiness"? What, his 'goofy' stance against the invasion of Iraq, or his 'goofy' stance on the

disintegration of our environment? Or maybe it was his 'goofy' strong statement against the loss of our civil liberties and the illegal actions of this administration? Exactly what the hell does she mean? This man is very presidential, even more so than he was in 2000. That is the most ludicrous thing I have heard. :eyes:

[Buzz Clik]

80. Not everyone agrees. Not even Gore, it would seem.

[JeffR]

8. I applaud you exhortation

but, this time at least, seems to me most of the anti-Dem posts are from people who cherish progressive ideals, and are frustrated with the apparently endless process of waiting for the party to embrace those ideals and put them in the forefront of what the party traditionally stands for. I don't blame them for it.

[MasonJar]

9. Thank you for saying what a lot of us are thinking. If you are no longer

dems, go somewhere else.

[Clark2008]

26. Ummm... what if we believe that WE ARE Dems, but that our

leadership is not.

Do THEY need to go somewhere else, then?

[live love laugh]

35. No. You need to go somewhere else. n/t

[Clark2008]

37. Sorry - won't happen.

I'll leave on my own if Edwards is the nominee, but not before.

[Edgeoforever]

67. I guess it all depends on the definition of a democrat.

[Ratty]

50. Oh I get it! Our party: love it or leave it

Isn't that a conservative rallying cry about the US? Love it or leave it? I happen to love being a Democrat so I belong here as much as you do

During elections we pull together, agreed. But I won't blindly follow anybody like a sheep and criticizing my party doesn't make me a traitor.

[rpannier]

10. In some ways I find the responses refreshing

I would like to see people who come here to (rightfully) complain about being let down -- AGAIN -- by the people in Congress contact their representatives and thank them if they voted no and express their displeasure if the voted yes -- I already did.

That being said, at some point this b**lsh*t about being patient has to stop.
Most of these people were elected for ONE reason and they couldn't even muster the courage to do that.

I'm not advocating voting for 3rd party or republikkans, but if these useless seat warmers can't properly represent their constituents wishes, then they need to go.

[melody]

12. Well said n/t

[EFerrari]

14. People are feeling frustrated.

And gut reactions are a valid response to the bs we live with. Maybe the most trustworthy one.

It's been a long week.

We'll be fine. Because we're mean enough, and stubborn enough and willing enough.

lol

:hug:

Good weekend, johnaries. NGU

[H2O Man]

22. Feeling frustrated

may actually be much better than being one of those who feels nothing.

"It’s like when you go to the dentist, and the man’s going to take your tooth. You’re going to fight him when he starts pulling. So he squirts some stuff in your jaw called novocaine, to make you think they’re not doing anything to you. So you sit there and ’cause you’ve got all of that novocaine in your jaw, you suffer peacefully. Blood running all down your jaw, and you don’t know what’s happening. ‘Cause someone has taught you to suffer — peacefully." -- Malcolm X; Message to the Grass Roots; 11-10-1963

[EFerrari]

47. OT: I never realized how successfully Malcolm X was smeared

until I read the passages you post and felt surprised by them.

[H2O Man]

51. Malcolm was

the first public figure who recognized that one way to beat the press at their own game was to come out and say he had been a pimp, a burglar, a drug pusher, and a dangerous man. Whenever the media would say he had been a rotten person, he would say he had been twice as bad as they might suspect. Years later, some of the "journalists" who tried to discredit Brother Malcolm did so by saying he wasn't really that bad in his youth. Ha!

In his later years, he was accused of being hateful and of promoting violence. Well, he did have a way with words that at times scared some folks. He spoke about self-defense. And he didn't advocating that people invest energy in loving those who hated them. But he was a wonderful man, and he was never actually associate with violent activities. In many ways, Malcolm represented the best in American ideals.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

15. Just a lot of "anti-dems who caved to the 'pubs" posts

Apropos, non?

[AuntPatsy]

16. It is not just you and it is not helping in my opinion.

[Exiled in America]

17. Democrats voted to FUND an illegal, immoral unjust war and caved on everything.

Yes, we're pissed off. We should be.

If you're not. You're stupid.

I am not loyal to a party. I am loyal to my CONVICTIONS. When a party stops doing what's right, I stop being loyal to the party.

[AuntPatsy]

18. They ensured funds for programs this government did NOT want...

you have to look at the whole picture, why isn't everyone doing that?

[michaz]

30. People do see this. But.....

what good are those programs for the hundreds of soldiers that are never going to be able to use them? The was and is a top priority as shown in the elections and now the polls. This leadership promised us something and gave us something different. That is not easy to deal with. I expect that from Republicans but not from the Democrats!

[Exiled in America]

63. Um...because ensuring programs at the cost of MY SON'S BLOOD IS NOT FUCKING OK, YOU SOAB.

That's why everyone "isn't doing that."

It's not ok to raise the minimum wage by continuing to stand on the sidelines and do NOTHING about an ILLEGAL IMMORAL war that is SLAUGHTERING our SONS AND DAUGHTERS every FUCKING DAY not to mention the countless Iraqi men, women and children eviscerated every day.

Oh but hey, that's a good fucking trade we should all be happy about right? Yeah... ok. Let's trade MURDER AND SLAUGHTER for a wage increase.

I'm sorry, I'm a strong, rabid supporter of a living wage in this country. But that doesn't mean I think its ok to totally EXPLOIT a horrific travesty that is KILLING AMERICANS in order to do it.

[Pushed To The Left]

19. K & R! I think I've heard Randi Rhodes say that there is a word to describe those who smear

Democrats: They are called Republicans!

[Exiled in America]

68. Randi Rhodes is plenty critical of democrats when its DESERVED.

She regularly says "I don't believe in blind loyalty." She's certainly supportive of her party, but doesn't mind being a critical thinker at the same time.

You however, apparently think like a republican with your "your either (unquestioningly) with us or your with the terrorists" mentality.

Questioning authority, and challenging wrongs we see within our party is the mark of a PATRIOT and of a good DEMOCRAT. Asking no questions, and blindly following is the mark of a fool.

Right now, more than at any other time in recent memory, we are very well justified to be extremely displeased with Democratic leadership in both the national party and in congress.

[Pushed To The Left]

71. What I'm referring to is the vicious smearing of Democrats who VOTED NO

and are being smeared anyway. There is also a huge difference between bashing and smearing a Democrat and criticizing Democrats, which I do plenty of myself. I'm extremely disappointed in the majority of the Democrats in Congress right now. However, I give credit where it's due to the brave ones who stood up for what was right and am disgusted that they too are being bashed here at DU.

[cgrindley]

21. Why do people keep typing this incredibly dumb thing?

"I also do not like accusing people of being "trolls" even though DU has definitely had it's share of trolls and we now know that the Repukes hire professional trolls to disrupt forums like DU."

Believing in this sort of shit makes everyone on earth look dumb.

[emanymton]

23. Agent Provocateur Possibly - But Do Not Overlook

that people are holding the party accountable. Factious discussion has always been a part of open liberal groups.

"... Folks, we are Progressives because we use discussion, logic, and - as Al Gore would say - REASON to make our arguments. ..."

and people also have EMOTIONAL responses that go along with reason. Do not downplay the importance of emotions as one talks subjects using logic and reason.

Patience the people have (putting up with the past years of failed GOP government malfeasance proves this). One can expect to continue to have the support of the people as long as the Democratic Party keeps focused and fixes the problems in Washington D.C. while bring the troops home.

Keep the pressure on GOP by keeping the pressure on the Democratic Party is a great way of controlling the situation.

[girl gone mad]

24. Not anti-Democratic.

Anti-poser-Democratic.

[liberal renegade]

27. I won't ever give up

but I sure am disappointed!

[panzerfaust]

28. Not a lot of point in

"Capturing the Hill", if we simply use that position to keep "Supportn' the President"

The democratic 'leaders' shamelessly sold out their mandate from the voters, and they should be taken to task for that.

[Dinger]

29. Several Anti-Public school, Pro-Private School, Anti-Teacher Threads Too

The minutes you say something, well, you figure it out.

[rasputin1952]

31. By our very nature as a party, we look at many things, argue

about many things and refuse to concede that there is a larger picture out there.

The R's essentially keep their people in line because they have their "policies" in simplistic terms that require little to no thought. We are not like that, we enjoy debate and embrace new and challenging ideas. We have the guts to ask "why?" and "why not?". The problem comes when we start getting answers to those questions...:)

At one time, we were the party of separation, we were the party that actually defended racist ideologies, we were the party that believed that the wealthy should dominate society and dictate how others should live. Fortunately, the "Great 180", where both parties shifted ideologies in the early 20th Century, came about and we started to get a lot of that baggage thrown off the train.

The neo-con agenda should have been a solidifier for us, it was certainly a catalyst, but, while we came closer together, we did not draw as close n ideology as might have. We are a party that has about 300 "Primary Positions", whereas the R's have about 3. All this combined has kept us a party of "issues", instead of a party of an "issue".

The power we possess is the power of ideas. Many, if not most of those ideas scare the crap out the neo-cons. Progress is not in the cards for them, they have what they want, which, if broken down comes simply to the point of amassing wealth at the expense of others. They are willing to see the govt spend $6 for a pencil, simply because stockholders, somewhere, are making money. Problem is, they don't want to pay the person making the pencil, they think that that individual should be making pencils for nothing as a service to the realm of the wealthy.

We will always debate, argue and fight because we ask questions, we move forward, even if it seems to be a snails pace sometime. The day we all come together on a couple/3 issues, our power will be unleashed, until then, we look like we are confused and flabbergasted to the R's.

[whistle]

Rageaholics and the elephant in the living room, but no one ever shouts at the

..elephant. America has become a dysfuntional family unit and lashes out against any one in our path:

<snip>
Dysfunctional family
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A dysfunctional family is a family in which conflict, misbehavior and even abuse on the part of individual members of the family occur continually, leading other members to accommodate such actions. Children sometimes grow up in such families with the understanding that such an arrangement is normal. Dysfunctional families are most often a result of the alcoholism, substance abuse like drugs, or other addictions of parents, parents' untreated mental illnesses/defects or personality disorders, or the parents emulating their own dysfunctional parents and dysfunctional family experiences.

Dysfunctional family members have common symptoms and behavior patterns as a result of their common experiences within the family structure. This tends to reinforce the dysfunctional behavior, either through enabling or perpetuation. The family unit can be affected by a variety of factors.

According to Steven Farmer, the author of Adult Children of Abusive Parents, <1> there are several symptoms of family dysfunction:

- Denial (i.e. a refusal to acknowledge the alcoholism of a parent; ignoring complaints of sexual abuse)
- Inconsistency and Unpredictability
- Lack of empathy toward family members
- Lack of clear boundaries (i.e. throwing away personal possessions that belong to others, inappropriate touching, etc.)
- Role reversals ("parentifying" children)
- "Closed family system" (a socially isolated family that discourages relationships with outsiders)
- Mixed Messages
- Extremes in conflict (either too much or too little fighting between family members)

<MORE>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysfunctional_family

[Kagemusha]

34. So in your view what's the elephant?

To me it's that we um, lost. What's your version?

[whistle]

42. Well, the elephant is a figure of speech which refers to that entity

...in the dysfunctional unit or family that is the focus and source of the dysfuntionality, but which no one wants to talk about or acknowledge, i.e. the alcoholic, the compulsive gambler, the drug addict, the over eater, the unemployed bread winner now non-winner, etc. The authority is diluted or may even be completely eliminated, but as long as that entity remains their presence perpetuates, prolongs and expands the dysfuntionality to such a degree that everyone is affected in a negative way whether they choose to remain in the family or not. This is because everyone in the family/unit is powerless over the "elephant", that their lives have become unmanageable.

Our "elephant" then, to answer your question, is the Iraq/Afghanistan War which is really Bush's War that we democrats are taking on as our own and we should and must not. It is the powerlessness and un-manageability of the war that has become the dysfuntionality of the democratic party. And as the result of this we are the enablers of Bush's War. Congress gave away their war making powers and their job has to be to take back that power.

With reference to the OP it is the house and senate leadership and the leadership of the democratic party. These are the leaders who set the direction and the priorities and the focus. So, the "elephant" enablers have to be:

- Senate Majority Leader: Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV)
http://democrats.senate.gov/

- Speaker of the House: Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)
http://democrats.house.gov/

- DNC Chairman: Gov. Howard Dean
http://www.democrats.org/

Of course, those acting on behalf of these leaders must be accountable too, as under Howard Dean we have:

DNC Officers
Howard Dean, Chairman
Lottie Shackelford, Vice Chair
Linda Chavez-Thompson, Vice Chair
Rep. Mike Honda, Vice Chair
Susan Turnbull, Vice Chair
Mark Brewer, Vice Chair, Chairman ASDC
Andrew Tobias, Treasurer
Alice Travis Germond, Secretary
Philip D. Murphy, National Finance Chair


How do these leaders then propose to strip away Bush's power over keeping the war going?

[Kagemusha]

43. Ok. That does make more sense then.

Maybe they don't wanna talk about it, but a lot of people here do.

I was thinking another elephant might be something to do with the certainty of defeat. (or people believing that to be certain.) Another way to put that is politicians who are well whipped.

[whistle]

69. Could be that as well, but I hope democrats don't curl up in a ball

...in a corner and give up, that would be tragic

[DU GrovelBot]

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[dkofos]

38. They did not represent the will of the people.

We have every right to be critical.
Or have you forgotten why we elect REPRESENTATIVES?

They certainly have!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. Have patience, don't question, don't criticize, the leaders know best...obey.

Sorry, I've been a GI and got that same load of shit from the DI's.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

40. Lately?

It's kind of a tradition here.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

41. Did I miss something? Did someone out themselves as a paid Repub troll?

Sorry, I haven't been following the board that closely of late. I was just wondering anyone confirmed what I always pretty much felt to be true.

[lonestarnot]

45. And I do mean NEVER!

[Neshanic]

48. I am not giving up,but apparently our leaders like Carter recant the next day.

Bill Maher said it clearly and finally what Democrats like me want.

Somehow, we have a gang of apologists that think it is more important to woo Rockefeller republicans, than stand by what they said.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. For two days running, my local paper (the Minneapolis-Star Tribune)

has featured LTTEs in which people express their outrage at the Dems caving once again.

These are not the types of letters that Republican trolls write. ("I'm a life-long Democrat, but I believe that President Bush has the nation's best interests at heart..." That's a Republican troll letter.) Rather, they are people who voted for the Democrats in opposition to the invasion of Iraq and/or the erosion of our civil liberties and feel betrayed, as many of us do.

The "my party right or wrong" types need to wake the hell up and realize that the Dems have blown it big time with the voting public.

The first time I saw a party loyalist's post telling me to calm down, that the Dems had a great plan, that they were just waiting for the right moment, and that I was going to be surprised and delighted, was in 2002, and the poster had just come back from a meeting with a prominent Senator.

That's right. I've been told to just be patient for five years, since before the Iraq War.

The list of crimes against the Constitution and crimes against humanity that the Bushies have gotten away with since then is familiar to all of us.

Yeah, yeah, wait for the moment. Wait for the right moment.

I'm not a big Dr. Phil fan, but I do like one of his catch phrases, "How's that workin' for you?"

[ulysses]

83. hey, our powder's dry.

That's something!

:hi:

[GeorgeGist]

52. I just read a rant against DUers ...

without an awful lot substance. My gut reaction tells me it's from a DLC sympathizer.

[GeorgeGist]

53. I give up

How much is an awful lot anyway? Is it more than good lot? Less than a whole lot?

[kiteinthewind]

54. No money, no ammo, no war. It's pretty simple. We are beyond done. Patience is gone. Period.

If there were 3 Senators or Representatives dying every day, this occupation would have been over yesterday. It's called PRIORITIES. :spank:

[sampsonblk]

59. Another bogus pro-surrender thread

Anti-surrender is not anti-Dem. That's Bush admin logic.

[yurbud]

61. if you mean those personal attack posts, those are transparently trolls. but on the war...

the reaction is entirely justified.

The Democrats are jerking us around and holding back from giving Bush a knock out punch.

Additionally, they seem to be following the lead of the corporate wing of the party that represents a lot of money, but very, very few people. When we try to call them out and cull them out, we are called divisive. It was also the corporate wing that purged progressive candidates and replaced them with corporate friendly ones--who lost.

We captured that hill for the Democrats. Now instead of fighting, they are trying to run away or throw down their guns and surrender.

They need to actually do something to show us they are on our side not just yanking our chain.

Raising the minimum wage is nice, but that is a distraction in the context of the bigger things going on.

[SergeyDovlatov]

64. of course we are mad

To talk that we have a very slim majority and cannot stop the war is a cop-out.
Dems can stop the war without lifting a finger. There are already enough money in the funding pipeline to safely bring troops home.

Dems don't have to pass any funding measure. If there is no funding bill, administration will have no choice but to bring the troops home.

White house have no constitional way of seizing money for the troops. No funding bill means no war.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. Um, they shit the bed this past week, and they did it in a particularly pathetic way.

"Give em hell Harry" became "Give em whatever they want, Harry- and be sure to thank them profusely for the swift kick to the behind you get from the administration in return."

Hell, Skinner was pissed, too. Did you see that thread? I think something more than just deliberate disruption was going on this week.

[Edgeoforever]

66. They were way more pro-dem while we were hoping they'll end the war....

Our bad, huh? :wtf:

[Jed Dilligan]

70. Uniting ourselves will never be as effective

as dividing them. We should be like them in one respect: focused on the enemy, and not on purifying our souls or our party.

[mmonk]

72. It's not my frustrations that are defeating me.

It's the refusal of anybody in power to do anything about it. No spin makes it good. No spin makes it ok. No spin makes it the best course. No spin makes it rational.

[Nunyabiz]

73. exactly

sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything is OK and blindly supporting a party that just threw you under the bus is ignorant.
I pretty much despise all but about 3-4 democrats at this point and all but ONE rethuglican (Ron Paul) course he is really an Independent running as a Rethug.
Rest of them should be shipped to Gitmo as far I'm concerned.

[polichick]

74. From what I've read...

Congressional Dems were more worried about how the Reps would paint them this Memorial Day than how we would feel about their actions. Apparently they take for granted that we'll continue to back them no matter what. Cindy Sheehan has left the party and will hold a Camp Casey event in Philly on July 4th, partly to discuss other options. Kudos to her ~ until Reps and Dems see that we're no longer willing to be pawns in their game, nothing will change.

[whopis01]

75. Are you talking about

posts that are anti-Democratic ideal?

Or posts that are anti-politicians who call themselves Democrats but behave in ways counter to Democratic ideas?

I have seen plenty of the latter. Not so much of the former.

[cymbalta]

76. how many innocent Iraqis died

while you typed this list of false excuses and empty explanations? How many troops died?

Democrats can end this war NOW if they want, which they don't. What they want is to keep this going until 08 so Bush stays on the defensive and Dems MIGHT gains some seats and the WH. Seats are more important than human lives and the end of carnage. They have just shot themselves on the foot on this sinister plan, since now Bush is victorious and Repugs will say, correctly, that Dems have given Bush a blank check to continue this war indefinitely. The essence of the Gravel Plan (if Dems had a spine and were the least interested, which they aren't): the congressional leadership would draw-out over days and weeks, if necessary, repeated daily cloture votes in the Senate and repeated daily veto override votes in both chambers to give American voters time to weigh-in and force two-thirds of their Senators and Representatives to vote to override the President's veto of the American will.

Gravel added: "In the face of a President oblivious to human suffering and death, the voting public is the only power that can stop the war. The Congress can and must energize this citizen's power. Timidity, compromise, comity and politics as usual are not viable alternatives to LEADERSHIP when Americans and Iraqis are dying every day."

There IS a way out, Dems just don't want to use it.

[LWolf]

77. Dissent is the highest form of patriotism,

according to Howard Zinn.

Dwight David Eisenhower said: "May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."

"The silencing of dissent is the death of freedom, of democracy, of civil liberties, of social and economic justice." That's me.

I also really like this one, by Barbara Ehrenreich:

“No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.”

Only the weak or the corrupt need to fear dissent. A strong, vibrant, healthy party welcomes dissent.

[Individualist]

78. Only the weak or the corrupt...

Speaking of the latter, DLC confronts dissent with spin, cliches and talking points.

[LWolf]

81. That's right.

The Democratic Party with the DLC cancer spreading through vital systems is too weakened and corrupted to prevail, imo.

[cooolandrew]

82. Yes, as long as the likes of Gore is part of our movement there is hope...

What we focus on increases focus on peace over being anti-war.

[leftofthedial]

84. yeah, and they deserve it richly

motherfuckers aren't really "democrats" at all. They're some sort of blow-up doll for repukes to bugger at will.

[L. Coyote]

85. DU is drowning in BLEMMINGS. Some well-meaning, some paid operatives

Blemming, noun, a blog lemming, a nuisance person or thread calling attention to and enthusiastic about a distracting topic
Blemming, verb. to distract from an important issue with irrelevancies, to blemish or inundate a reasonable discussion with extraeous issues

Usage: Blemmings often lead the herd over a cliff to drown in a sea of irrelevancy.

Synonyms: Online ratf*cker, e-provocateur, discussion troll, sheeople herder, assault on reason, wedgeeezer, scatological besmearmenter :rofl:

Gooooogling blemming: I was surprised to see a usage for "blemming" online. And one so suited to what I thought would be a truly fresh neologism. This from Jan 25, 2004. - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=blemming

1. blemming
To be a nuisance to;
To call attention to;
To be enthusiastic about;
To bring on a trip .....

====================================
It has not been fun to watch. In my view, this recent assault is not without reason. DU has been producing remarkable, instantaneous discussion and perspectives on news events. I see the items discussed on DU in the global press the next day. Being the media the media reads garners this sort of assault.

I hope the moderators are keeping all logs. Log files identify each and every computer used for each and every post. It is easy to run an analysis of that data and trace the sources of such assaults.