Fucking monsters, all of them! Couldn't even take the damn time to read the NIE on Iraq.

[originalpckelly]

These people signed the death warrants of thousands of Americans, even if we assume they couldn't have predicted this high a casualty rate, just knowing that one America could have died as a result their vote for the war in Iraq, that should have lead them to at least read the fucking NIE.

What kind of monster does this sort of thing?

And the saddest part of all is that they're our monsters as almost as much as they are the Republican monsters.

This is inhuman, this is un-American, this is a crime in a higher sort of law.

In a way you could say they denied people their right to due process.

I think looking back now it's pretty clear that a member of one of the Armed Forces received less due process than an ax murderer would.

We have been betrayed, and I have a sinking feeling that some really awful shit is about to go down.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/28/clinton.iraq/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[acmavm]

1. It also exposes two of the biggest lies in politics:

Joe Biden:
Biden ended up voting for the resolution, but argued that he was casting a vote "to avoid a war."

The Decider Guy:
Bush said war was necessary because Iraq was deceiving weapons inspectors and had demonstrated its unwillingness to disarm.

They all belong on trial in the Hague.

[originalpckelly]

3. They really do belong on trial at the Hague, even "our side".

My mouth just fell right open in shock when I read that headline on the front page of Google, it was just so incredibly shocking.

They gave our soldiers less due process than ax murderers.

And you know they'll be the first ones to bitch and moan about their rights to due process when they are finally tried for this crap, but of course because we are human beings we'll actually spend time giving a shit about them as a world.

[bullwinkle428]

16. Typical Biden. He repeated the crap about "not wanting to deprive

the troops in the field" with regards to his "yes" vote this past week on war funding. Also, "this wouldn't do anything to end the war any sooner..." :mad:

[Flatulo]

2. It's herd mentality. Critical thinking is hard. Going along is easy.

[originalpckelly]

5. I tell you today I feel damn sorry that we let this happen.

We can't trust people in any position of power; ever. We seem to think these aren't people, but they're just as fucked up, if not more so, than the rest of us.

These poor soldiers, they deserve so much better than the people of this country. It's just all so awful. It's like looking at murder scene or something. Totally shocking and disgusting.

[TwilightGardener]

4. Six Senators--who were they? And would reading it have made a difference?

Somehow I doubt it. The wheels were already turning that way.

[originalpckelly]

6. Let's make this clear, only six senators read the report.

And it's called due process, yes, this is not a courtroom, but when people's lives are on the line, they deserve some form of due process. The Senate has an absolute total lack of respect for human beings and their lives. There are least 94 sick assholes walking around America, they ought to be in prison.

[TwilightGardener]

7. Agreed--shameful. WTF did we pay them for? To get "briefings"

on the most important decision they had to make in the Senate?

I wish I knew who those six who read it were--so I could credit their willingness to DO THEIR JOBS!

[originalpckelly]

8. They didn't do their homework, they did less work than school children.

And these are the people in charge of this place? No wonder this world is so fucked.

After hearing Mike Gravel talk about his first days/months in the Senate, I'm beginning to understand his rant at the MSNBC Democratic Presidential Debates. How the hell did these assholes make it so far in life?

I'll tell you right now, I'm convinced they could not have made it in a fair system.

[acmavm]

11. There are very few that take their jobs seriously. For many of them it

seems to be 'fact finding' tours and posturing. Some miss so many votes that it's pointless for them to be there. How many days can you take off from work? That rule doesn't apply to them. And what if you did something that ended up to be so wrong and as expensive as voting yea on the IWR? All because you didn't do the research and collect the information necessary to make the right decision?

Well, we don't cause massive loss of life, both our troops and innocent Iraqis. Their cavalier attidudes and dereliction of duty did.

[TwilightGardener]

17. Hard to believe, but true--very few seem to treat it like a "real job."

And that's why we're so fucked right now.

[Blue_Tires]

62. once you're in the beltway 'club'

you want to do whatever it takes to stay...it's nothing but a game for so many of them

[wryter2000]

50. Not 94

Some people voted against the IWR.

[wryter2000]

49. My guess

The Senate Intelligence Committee was given the report to read. Other Senators had to go to a secure location to read it because it was classified.

According to Bob Graham's book, the declassified version was very different. If they'd read that, they would have been more eager to go to war.

[ProSense]

9. The MSM really knows how to play with people's minds don't they?

From the link in the OP:

Misleading report

The National Intelligence Estimate concluded that the United States had "compelling evidence" that Iraq was restarting its efforts to develop a nuclear bomb and had concealed stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons from U.N. inspectors after the cease-fire that ended the 1991 Persian Gulf War.

That was wrong, but that wasn't established until after a U.S. -led army toppled Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's government in April 2003.

The intelligence report did contain passages that raised questions about the weapons conclusions, said John McLaughlin, then deputy director of the CIA.

"I think if someone read the entire report, they would walk away thinking the intelligence community generally thinks he has weapons of mass destruction, but there are quite a bit of differences," he said.

McLaughlin, now a CNN contributor, said dissenting views by the State Department, Department of Energy and the Air Force made up about 10 to 12 pages of the report -- but critics say those dissents were not highlighted.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

19. You seem to want reality

to fit the bogus script you and the RW media been promoting. Well it doesn't! Bush lied, get used to it.

[originalpckelly]

23. Yeah, he lied, but they still didn't give a fuck.

[ProSense]

28. The report was wrong, the parts they read were wrong, the briefings they got were wrong

"I think if someone read the entire report, they would walk away thinking the intelligence community generally thinks he has weapons of mass destruction, but there are quite a bit of differences," he said.

Bush lied and he also attached a signing statement, which is an indictment, to the bill saying he could override Congress' will. So this is his illegal war. Nothing but spin changes that.

[originalpckelly]

29. Under international law and the US Constitution, this war is illegal.

However, Congress still had to pass the unconstitutional IWR.

[ProSense]

31. Nonsense!

There is nothing unconstitutional about the IWR.

[Selatius]

10. We know some of the names of those six senators

Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D)
Sen. Pat Roberts (R)
Sen. Diane Feinstein (D, whose husband has directly profited handsomely off war contracts)

I dunno who the rest of the senators were or who the House members were. I bet Kucinich in the House read it, but I could be wrong.

http://www.speakout.com/forum_view.asp?Forum=George_W__Bush&MID=104904&mMID=104904

[TwilightGardener]

14. Every single one of the Senators in the Intelligence Committee

should have read it, no excuses. Very disturbing.

[originalpckelly]

15. I can tell you Pat Roberts is a complete tool of Bush...

he kept fucking with the NSA warrantless spying investigation, and Rockefeller also voted for the IWR like the other two.

Meet the new boss, same as the old one.

[Hubert Flottz]

43. I wonder why Jay Rockefeller would give a damn about Iraq?

Or anything else in the Middle East...or under the Middle East?

[Adelante]

54. One of the great mysteries

I remember reading about Rockefeller's brother in law (I think it was) who was in the House and went to Rockefeller for advice. The brother in law says he was convinced by what Rockefeller told him to vote NO to the IWR, yet Rockefeller voted YES. I wish I had bookmarked this. I have no recollection of where I read it. But it truly perplexed me.

[Hubert Flottz]

56. Two Words...

Standard Oil

[Adelante]

53. Intel Committee members should not be listed

This is why, Selatius.

The Intel Committee requested the NIE in September, specifically Graham, Durbin and Levin, who all ultimately voted NO. In addition, Durbin and Levin presented alternative resolutions and Graham told the Senate members they "would have blood" on their hands if they voted YES to the IWR.

The Committee received it on October 1 and on October 2 they held a closed door meeting to examine the NIE with Tenet and other intelligence community present. In this meeting, Graham and others saw that the underlying intelligence (which was included in the NIE) did not draw the conclusions presented in the NIE. They then did two things:

1-They demanded a declassified, redacted version of the full NIE, which could be shared with the Senate at large.

2-They set the full NIE up in a locked room where every Senator and Representative could visit to read the full NIE (this is where the six Senators and maybe three Representatives come in who did read it.)

So those on the Intel Committee already had the full NIE and did not need to visit the room, so probably do not belong on that list. Any list of those who did go and read it would include Senator Byrd.

But on Point 1 above, what happened in the event was that the document delivered to the full Congress, on I believe October 5, was not a redacted version of the NIE. An entirely new document was submitted which made, as Graham has said, a compelling case for war. THIS is where those not on the Intel Committee were misled by Bush. However, had those who voted YES gone to the room to review the complete NIE, as they should have, they would have seen possibly what Graham, Durbin, Levin, Weyden and Mikulski saw, and it could have changed their votes. Or not. Consider that half the Intel Committee voted YES even after seeing and discussing the NIE. John Edwards, in particular, went forward in co-sponsoring the IWR, on which Feinstein and Rockefeller voted YES.

[magellan]

13. "The president misused the power we gave him under that resolution," said Biden.

Yeah, that's a great excuse, isn't it? It must be for all the innumerable times it's been used.

Couldn't be bothered to read the NIE and authorized the IWR...DID read the NIE but decided to authorize the IWR anyway...Four years later, still think Bush** did nothing more serious than "mislead" us...and the blood just keeps right on flowing....

Out of nearly 500 warm elected bodies on Capitol Hill, a HANDFUL deserve their jobs. A HANDFUL.

[originalpckelly]

21. I think what's happened may signal a need for a new constitution.

Obviously this government is completely and totally corrupt.

I really have to wonder if America is just a mirage out in the middle of the fucking desert, so far out of reach we'll never get there.

[dmsx64]

20. It would appear from the anger,

Betrayal was felt long before this. And, yes, you are correct - indeed they are Democratic monsters.

[originalpckelly]

22. Yeah, and let's not forget the monster who put them up to it.

If this is what the Congress is hiding, I can only imagine the shit Bush is hiding.

[dmsx64]

33. I missed the you tube video and the CNN report

Where the Bush admin. was physically arm twisting the dems. to concession. If it is not to much trouble, could you please post the link?

[txindy]

36. No, we won't post the link.

How about this instead:

It suits your new status.

[charlie]

24. No one read the Patriot Act, either

Ron Paul tried to get a copy and was told he "wasn't allowed" to have one. Fucking thing passed anyway. Imagine that.

[originalpckelly]

25. You know, we ought to team up with the few conservatives...

who aren't completely brainwashed to stop this shit in its tracks, it's just fascism with a different face.

[magellan]

35. That's just it, there are too few who see it

And even fewer who are willing to admit what they see.

This is how it went down in 1930s Germany. The majority just went along with things.

[originalpckelly]

39. I heard that Corsi fella, the one who hates immigrants...

talking about Bush on C-SPAN, and I have to say he seems to have realized that Bush is a total Nazi and is planning something awful. If he can turn around, and he was a real kool-aid drinker, then I think we can change the others.

[wryter2000]

51. Corsi?

He's one of the Swift Boat Liars big-wigs. I hope the MFer is proud of what he's done.

[TwilightGardener]

26. They got a five-page "Patriot Act For Dummies".

[originalpckelly]

27. And they still had to read the Cliff Notes for that.

[charlie]

30. How about something they HAVE seen?

Abu Ghraib. The dark atrocities we've only read about were shown to members of Congress in a movie-schedule form, with presentations held several times a day for a couple of days, so all who wanted to could attend. What they saw even shook a number Bushbots to their core, including Lindsey Graham, who a time after seemed to go wobbly on his beloved CinC. Whither Abu Ghraib today?

[originalpckelly]

32. You know one day people will look at that like we look at the Nazi death camp photos.

They will see the horror and say "not again", but they will forget as we did that these were not really monsters, just men and women.

[charlie]

34. Yep, for 15 minutes

Then we'll do it again. Jingoism trumps sanity every time. Not a whole lot of people paused to remember My Lai this time around.

[Carolina]

37. reinforces my decision

not to support ANYONE who voted for IWR. That vote always stuck in my craw ...

If I'd known then what I know now ... A BIG LIE
I'm sorry I voted for IWR ... TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE
This is GWB's war ... the BIGGEST LIE OF ALL

[Adelante]

55. In 2004 I cut them a lot more slack

But then in mid-2005 I watched a CNN special on prewar intelligence and I decided no way would I support a YES voter in the primaries. I think it's outrageous they're even running for president.

[Carolina]

60. I am so wishin,

and hopin and prayin that after these early birds (billion dollar donkeys) drop/fade out, someone new will step up to the plate. I was for Wesley Clark in 2004 and surmise from your name that you may have felt likewise.

My 2004 vote for Kerry-Edwards was lukewarm because I met them both here in SC in August 2002 at a Democratic Party function when they were tag teaming the state prior to their separate 2004 presidential bids). I sicced my good friend on Edwards while I accosted Kerry. Looked him dead in the eye and begged him not to vote for any of *'s actions against Iraq since there was so much talk about Iraq leading up to the 2002 midterms. I talked about Saudi Arabia (ya know the drill: 15/19 hijackers plus Osama, etc). And I'll never forget how Kerry tap danced with his response, telling me (Jane Q. Citizen whom he presumed to be an unread country hick) how dire a threat Saddam was, blah, blah, blah. I decided right then that I wouldn't support him but then he won the primaries and I had no choice. :grr:

[leftchick]

38. I can not believe I am reading this....

<snip>

Biden told CNN that he read the dissents in the report and he "spoke to the ones who dissented."

Biden ended up voting for the resolution, but argued that he was casting a vote "to avoid a war."

"It was a vote to give the authority to the president to avoid war by keeping the pressure on Saddam Hussein," the Delaware Democrat said Monday.

He said Bush initially told Congress he would allow inspectors to certify whether Iraq had dismantled its weapons programs.

"The president misused the power we gave him under that resolution," said Biden.




This is the best the Democrats can come up with to run for president?

[originalpckelly]

40. I know, he's a sorry ass liar. If they had read the NIE and maybe...

then seen the fact that there was dissenting information in the footnotes, someone eventually might have brought that up and it might have started the ball rolling in the other direction.

The fact that Biden says he saw the dissenting information in the footnotes, and then even talked to the dissenters, yet still voted for the fucking war makes my head spin. Something there just doesn't add up.

Maybe he just skimmed it?

It's beginning to scare me that these people are in power making decisions that affect our entire country and the entire world. (I'm referring to the the Senate in general.) They shouldn't be in charge of a poodle much less an entire country and the only world superpower. It makes a damn good case for some type of divestment of power away from these nuts and back down to the more local level.

[Donna Zen]

61. The NIE didn't matter

If you agreed with basic concept of the war; that is, the long war, drain the swamp, start with Saddam.

That, not WMD, is why they wanted to invade Iraq. The sorry-ass evidence of WMD was just an excuse.

Biden? Listen to his speeches. He agreed.

[npincus]

41. Thankk you! Very significant, important information here.

[originalpckelly]

42. I know, it's like a judge handing down a death sentence without reviewing all of the evidence.

I don't think you or I or really anyone somewhat normal could ever be placed in such a situation and make a political decision over a decision about what's right and wrong for America. It's very sickening.

[dennis4868]

45. can you say....

Carla Fay Tucker?

[dennis4868]

44. Many forget....

that:

1. CIA agents were "persuaded" to put bad things in the NIE regarding Sadaam (Cheney's visits to the WH;

2. A report was sent to Bush by the CIA before the war stating that Sadaama is no threat at all (I have to find that Newsweek article on this topic);

3. Bush himself lied in speeches even about what was in the NIE (i.e., unmanned aerial drones that could reach America with nuclear weapons);

4. The dissenting views were put in footnotes for a reason...so nobody would bother to read them but they were dissents from the Army, DOE, Dept. of State's inteligence offices....these do not belong in little footnotes....Bush and his cronies did that for a reason;

5. The UN inspectors were not finding anything before the war!

[bdamomma]

46. total incompetence and total insaneness, they should be thrown

out, people are dying everyday for their callousness. How much more are we going to endure?:banghead:

[DeepModem Mom]

47. Not at all. I'm sorry, I wasn't aware of that post. nt

[Hubert Flottz]

48. How many of them read the Patriot Act?

How many can read?

[camero]

52. Well you know there was a trump card

$21 Trillion worth of oil in the ground.

Our politicos are corrupt to the core.

[spanone]

57. K&R Shame....

[ProSense]

58. Evidence fabricated by Bush with the help of the CIA:

Senior CIA Analyst Believed Iraq Had No WMD

Head Of CIA's WMD Division-Told Underlings To GIVE BUSH -The Intelligence To ALLOW Him To Go To War

CNN reports that NIE was wrong, but omits mention that Bush and CIA manipulated the evidence

[bbgrunt]

59. and instead of the news covering this, we get crap about hrclinton books

[w8liftinglady]

63. part of my ltte involved this-bastards

Yesterday was Memorial Day.We met a new landmark,with 10 soldiers killed on Memorial Day,and 112 killed In May.People happily cooked out,shopped and played,oblivious to the significance of this day.A new report was released to stating that 94 out of 100 Senators did NOT read the NIE report leading up to the war,including some from "my" side,essentially sending these brave troops blindly to their death based on lies,without a plan,while these politicians and their friends become wealthier by the day from the many companies profiting from the blood of those we are "memorializing".Cindy Sheehan has left the anti-war movement out of frustration.I am determined to become even more vocal.Pay attention,America.One of these days,it could be your son,your brother,your friend dying for a lie.Don't forget the bravery of our soldiers.Don't forget those who have been permanently scarred by war.Don't forget their families,widows,orphans who suffer while we play.Don't forget.