What is the problem with calling Cindy Sheehan what she was called

[bryant69]

Is the problem with how it was said? I don't know that anybody thinks the term "Whore" is an admirable one (although we certainly throw it around enough here).

Or is the real problem the accusation behind the phrase; that Sheehan is just doing all this for attention? If someone had expressed that idea without using the words that were used would it have been better, worse, or about the same?

edited to excise the offending words as much as possible.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[BOSSHOG]

1. I propose millions of attention whores against the war converge on DC

[yurbud]

79. good idea

[JVS]

2. Where is the "Aw Jeez, not this shit again" picture?

[RevCheesehead]

54. Right here:

[EstimatedProphet]

55. Here ya go

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. This also works, in a pinch...

[EstimatedProphet]

63. While we're at it...

[Bluebear]

86. lolol

[Bluebear]

91. That works. nt

[jpgray]

3. DUers call about 60% of political fgiures "whores" every fucking day

I don't see what the big deal is about this one in particular. The internet has a lot of shit slinging in it--I bet a similar comment exists on DailyKos, Eschaton or any other liberal blog.

[yurbud]

81. there's difference between calling Cindy that and a politician who's a whore in literal money sense

Ironically, the people who insult Cindy probably work for the literal kind.

[EFerrari]

4. I don't understand why you keep posting these threads.

It's obvious that someone who has worked very hard to save lives has been hurt.

And here you are repeating the hurtful term again.

I wonder why you'd need to do that?

[JVS]

6. Probably for the sake of getting Attention

[Cooley Hurd]

12. I've personally seen the pain in the eyes of a parent who lost their child...

...in a horrific accident (my nephew was killed and his parents, my brother and sister-in-law, were, and still are desolate) ANYONE making judgments on such people WITHOUT experiencing such sadness should STFU. I know, in your capacity Beth, you've witnessed such horror - it is something I'd NEVER wish on anyone...

God(dess) bless Cindy and Casey.:hug:

[EFerrari]

17. Truly. If I could put arms around her I would.

And to see her repeatedly traduced in this manner is repulsive.

:hug:

[Bluebear]

62. Word. nt

[sandnsea]

13. That's what I've been trying to stop

ALL of the repeating of the term. It was only used TWICE to start with, and now it's all over the internet. I would think Cindy would feel better if she knew it was only two idiots, who I believe are trolls, rather than this horrible firestorm that has resulted.

[EFerrari]

22. It's been so unfortunate and so saddening that someone who has

her commitment level to what is obviously, rationally the right side of such an important issue for this country has been treated in this way. I feel shame over this whole episode.

[sandnsea]

28. The shame

is that DU perpetuated the myth that the words of two posters were reflective of more than just those two posters. Even people who disagree with her have said they would never use those kinds of words. Faux outrage is more fun than truth, as usual.

And now we've got the rest of the usual suspects, the routine pot stirrers, making it all worse.

And all anybody had to do was say, no, those words are the words of two people, and 90% of DU would never condone the use of those words against anybody. Instead we got all these manipulative polls and the like. I can't understand why people always prefer to fuel fires.

[Tesha]

60. It's wrong to downplay DUers' attacks on Cindy.

It's wrong to downplay DUers' attacks on Cindy. While it may
only have been two people who used the exact words cited,
the number of DUers who routinely attacked her efforts are
legion.

In fact, any time that people here are actually
doing something, there's a whole flock of people who
tear them down for doing "the wrong thing" or the
"counter-productive thing" or "getting us the wrong
sort of publicity" or whatever the sin du jour
is. Apparently, we should just endlessly talk about
things. This certainly comes up EVERY time a
peace march is imminent; the yammering class talks
about how we're doing it all wrong, but they never
get off their keyboards to do it better themselves.

Tesha

[Tektonik]

5. OP is an attention whore atm

[High Plains]

7. Better question: What's your fucking problem?

Move on, buddy. Please.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

8. got anymore obnoxious threads up your sleeve?

welcome to ignoresville!

[sandnsea]

9. What is wrong with you?

Why would you say something like that???

[LSK]

10. BECAUSE ITS A FALSE PREMISE

She is not wanting any attention to herself. She only wants attention to the war. Wouldnt the definition of attentionwhore mean drawing attention to oneself?

[Midlodemocrat]

26. Exactly.

What did Cindy gain from this? Is Casey alive again?

To call her those names is beyond vile. She is the ONLY person who had the courage to stand up to the asshole in chief like she did.

I'm sorry she is disheartened. I hope she finds healing.

[thereismore]

11. You are an attention whore. Forgot that one on your list. nt

[Lerkfish]

14. thanks, my ignore list needed updating

funny how all the people I ignore because of their fanatical devotion to Clinton are the same ones I have to ignore for attacking Sheehan.

wierd.

why would that be, exactly?

[bryant69]

16. I'm not fanatically devoted to Clinton

I support Edwards or Obama

Guess you can't see this cause you ignored me.

Bryant

[zippy890]

19. mine too, throw in a 'hide thread' for good measure

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. The problem with it...

is why anybody would be dumb and cruel enough to have any animosity towards Cindy Sheehan.

[Madspirit]

18. I Hope You Take Note

I hope you take note of the direction this poll is going. It is getting tiresome. ...though a tad more interesting than light bulbs and haircuts, it's really not that cool to pick on a grieving mom. Jesus, give it a rest.
Lee

[bryant69]

20. Oh rest assured I am

Perhaps my participation in this forum is coming to an end.

Bryant

[JVS]

21. Oh joy of joys!

[Breeze54]

35. WOOT!!!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[Madspirit]

36. Pouty Much

You would leave DU over this? Well then...that says something about YOU.
Lee

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Madspirit]

49. People are NOT assholes

People are not assholes because they disagree with you. You might want to watch yourself and read Skinner's thread on this. You are kind of calling him an asshole too and that's just not cool. He provides us with this place.

You don't even get to call people assholes for saying you should shut up. YOU made the poll. Don't be disingenuous.
Lee

[Tektonik]

43. good riddance

[Renew Deal]

51. You've been here a while.

And so have I. DU is special because it's not subject to mob rule. Your posts are equal to others (unless they deserve attention). Today you are in the minority, tomorrow you are in the majority. That's how it goes.

[bryant69]

57. This isn't people disagreeing with me

I've engendered real hatred around here.

Bryant

[Madspirit]

59. Bryant!

I disagree with a lot of what you say but I do NOT hate you at ALL. If you don't want your feelings hurt do not inject yourself into your own poll. That is asking to be hurt. Just go cool down and come back. Really...don't leave; don't call people who disagree with you "assholes"; don't be the drama queen you would like to accuse Cindy of being. Just take a day. Take a breath. I don't want you to leave. I want you to chill.
Lee

[Forkboy]

65. Thank Christ

[Bluebear]

66. ...

:spray:

[Bluebear]

77. .

[libnnc]

67. Saints be praised.

one can only hope...

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. That would be good news

[bigtree]

80. no need for that at all

the most critical posters are usually the most vocal.

[MidwestTransplant]

23. Is there a way to filter keywords out of "Latest Posts"

I would like to filter Cindy Sheehan

[NoPasaran]

24. Where's "She's a living saint and no one should be allowed to criticize her"?

[EFerrari]

25. Where's your sense of common decency? n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

27. Absent, obviously. Not unlike some others here.

It's very enlightening, actually.

[EFerrari]

34. Yes, some threads work that way. Informative. n/t

[blogslut]

29. cute

You changed the post title.

How brave.

[EFerrari]

30. bryant, I don't know if you're having a difficult day or what.

You and I mostly disagree and most of the time. But, I make a point to read your posts because your thinking is so different than mine and it gives me perspective, and because you are a very clear writer. And I appreciate those things.

Can't we give this a rest for a couple of days? I'm sincerely asking.

[bryant69]

46. actually this is probably my last word on the subject

It seems fruitless to consider.

[EFerrari]

48. I hope you reconsider that. It's been a long six years. n/t

[magellan]

31. Is this poll more lurid distraction?

Because Cindy didn't quit being the "face of the anti-war movement" over insults. She quit because of the Democratic Party's calculated failure and lies over the war funding, and the subsequent grief she got from Dems within the anti-war movement for calling them on it.

This isn't about insults. It's about party purists on both sides of the aisle who represent an obstacle to true progress and any hope of salvaging our government.

[alkaline9]

32. at flame risk, I think this is a valuable question...

...I understand the circumstances around calling someone an "Attention W...." are different in each case, but the goal of such a statement is the same in almost all cases. The goal is to frame the antagonist in a negative light, regardless if the title fits or not. In Cindy's case, I do not believe the shoe fits, but I can understand why some do.

The thing that makes Cindy's case so different (as far as DU goes) is #1 she's very progressive (ie: one of our own) and #2 she has lost her son to this senseless war (which, in my eyes, gives her more of a right to bring attention to both herself and her cause(s)).

As to an answer to the poll, I don't know. After reading WilliamPitt's post about the last time he saw Cindy, it appears that her physical/mental condition was not as healthy as when she started her movement. The significance of the negative words may or may not have done much to dissuade her. Her health, and a general feeling of hopelessness (which I feel almost daily) may have been the real nail in the coffin.

This may not have been mentioned much, but in my opinion, Cindy stood alone throughout most of her anti-war movement. Yes, she had supporters. Yes, she had some media coverage. But, most people just admired her from their sofas. Most people agreed with what she was saying, but never lifted a finger to help her. I imagine if that was me up there fighting this government, even under the most just causes, I would have given up too.

Did she feel betrayed by her own people (DU? other progressives?), maybe. Did she feel hurt by the words that have now been repeated numerous times, perhaps. Was that alone enough to bring her down, doubtful.

[EFerrari]

33. Nobody "brought Cindy down". She is an adult and a strong

adept one, at that.

Please.

[alkaline9]

41. No doubt she's a strong woman...

...and you have to give credit where due... she was able to gain international support... something few career politicians could ever hope to achieve.

My only thought is ... if no one "brought her down" then why such a fuss over any names people on DU might call her? And some acting as though it was DU that pushed her over the edge?

[EFerrari]

42. Because it's a big fat show of ingratitude.

And we can do so much better than that.

If this is how we treat people who stand up for us, who will be moved to stand up for us?

If this is how we reward people for personal sacrifice that few of us can even imagine, what message are we sending to young activists?

DU tends to drama but, imho, it also tends to truth.

I hope by now Cindy knows that the vast majority of us stand by her, today and every day.

[Bluebear]

78. I hope so too. nt

[Marr]

37. Her Democratic critics only mind that her remarks against DEMS got attention.

It's sickening to see party-before morality sycophants in the Democratic Party. I can hardly tell them apart from the fucking Freepers.

[Neshanic]

44. Thank God you said that. Right to the point.

[MethuenProgressive]

38. She didn't get her son killed so she could become a star, Bryant.

Don't bother to reply, because I'll never read another word typed by you.

[Freddie Stubbs]

39. It is a crude epithet which has no place in civil discourse

[EFerrari]

40. OMG, Freddie. We agreed twice on the same day.

:)

Thank you.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lex]

50. Best. Poll. Result. Ever.

nt

[Bluebear]

52. Grand, ain't it? nt

[puerco-bellies]

53. Jeeze.. I can't say what I want to say to you.

DU rules and all..

[bryant69]

56. Well you could always PM me

Or my blog has comment features, haloscan so it doesn't always work, but it usually does, you could post a comment over there.

Bryant

[mmonk]

58. I guess it's alright to call her that if you don't think what she has

been doing has any worth or do not understand her position of having lost a child to this war based on lies.

[Bluebear]

64. Polls are still open, folks! nt

[bryant69]

89. Thank you so much for keeping this going. n/t

[Bluebear]

92. No problem.

[VelmaD]

69. I have to wonder...

how many people currently getting so upset about someone calling Cindy an "attention whore" because it's not civil discourse will be there and say something the next time the word "bitch" is used on DU.

[Bluebear]

70. Quite different. "Bitch" may be crude, but calling someone an "attention whore"...

because they lost a son and are upset is in quite a different league, don't you think?

[VelmaD]

71. No...I don't think

I've seen a lot of people commenting on how name-calling isn't the right thing to do...and I'm just wondering where some of these people have been in the endless rounds of "bitch" wars. If calling Cindy an "attention whore" is out of bounds...then calling a female public figure (or really any women for that matter) a bitch is out of the bounds of civil discourse as well.

But I'm sure the usual suspects will be along shortly to justify why calling women sexist names is really not sexist.

[idgiehkt]

93. this is where the 'openness' of an internet site

can turn around and bite it right in the ass. If a site wants to has above-ground legitimacy like DU sometimes appears to, then it needs to batten down the hatches and put filters in. I've posted on sites with them and they do make you rethink and express yourself differently. If the site decides to go with a more underground-ish, alternative atmosphere then it should fully anticipate things like this will happen if it leaves it's arse hanging out. DU can't have it both ways, and the only thing that surprises me about this whole event is that it seems to expect to.

[EFerrari]

72. I think we should rejoin our discussion about the Pope.

:loveya:

[VelmaD]

74. which pope?

The bad one...or the really bad one? *snort*

Good to see you. :hi: :loveya:

[EFerrari]

75. You call the popes, baby

It's just good to read you.

:hi:

[VelmaD]

76. I've been taking a break...

and I'm not entirely sure I'm ready to completely come back yet. I'm sure I'll get sucked back in soon though.

With that, I'm off to bed. Gonna be useless at work tomorrow. :)

[Bluebear]

84. 'I'm sure I'll get sucked back in soon though.'

Isn't that the truth lol!

[nam78_two]

73. "Jesus Christ! Why won't you shut up?!?".nt

[bigtree]

82. the 'attention' she sought had a good purpose. She advocated for a cause.

She said she wanted to try and make her son's death to stand for peace through her advocacy against the occupation. With that in mind, I think using the term 'whore' to describe her in that advocacy is extremely off-base and denigrating.

Will you please stop using it to describe Cindy Sheehan and the efforts she made on behalf of her understanding of peace in the name of her son?

[Bluebear]

87. Good post. nt

[Javaman]

83. Oh for the love of god give it a rest. nt

[orleans]

85. it was a cheap shot made by a "man" who could very well feel threatened

by women--especially strong women.

flame?

just my opinion.

[Orsino]

88. The problem is the CONCERN over all the attention Cindy earned.

The implication that she worked only for the attention it brought to her is reprehensible.

[KoKo]

90. Have you "GOTTEN A LIFE YET?" You keep posting this CRAP!

You know.. a good walk in your "National Park" (if the Bushies haven't closed it down or corrupted it yet) might do you SOME GOOD!

:eyes: Your posts are very bizarre!