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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 12:46 PM
Original message
Chavez allies win in Venezuela, opposition gains
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081124/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_elections



Chavez allies win in Venezuela, opposition gains
s – Venezuela votes, with mixed results
AP – Young supporters of Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez peer from a car after the National Electoral Council … CARACAS, Venezuela – President Hugo Chavez said Monday that allies' victories in state and local elections mean Venezuelans want him to press ahead with his socialist policies, but his opponents gained ground by winning the two largest states and two largest cities.

Chavez was jubilant at the results early Monday.

"The people are telling me: 'Chavez continue down the same road,'" said the president whose "21st century socialism" has seen him nationalize key industries and centralize authority while building an anti-U.S. alliance with leftist friends such as Cuba.

He also hinted at a renewed effort to make constitutional changes that could expand his powers and let him run for re-election indefinitely.

Voters last year rejected the president's proposed overhaul of the constitution, which would have abolished term limits that prevent him from running in 2012.

Pro-Chavez candidates held on to gubernatorial posts in 17 states in Sunday's vote, including Chavez's home state of Barinas, where his brother survived a tough race to succeed their father as governor.

But the oft-battered opposition also gained by winning five of the 23 states, including the two biggest — Miranda and Zulia — as well as mayoral races in the two largest cities, Caracas and Maracaibo.

The mixed result offered a rare situation in Venezuela's polarized politics: both sides said they were pleased.

Opposition candidate Antonio Ledezma defeated a close Chavez confidant to become the next mayor of Caracas, the capital, while the most prominent anti-Chavez politician, Manuel Rosales beat a Chavez ally in the second-largest city, Maracaibo.

"What's important is that the map of Venezuela has started to change," Rosales said.

The opposition also won governorships in Nueva Esparta, Carabobo and Tachira states.

Some voters in Caracas said they support Chavez on some issues but are dissatisfied with the city's rampant crime, trash and crumbling infrastructure.

Cesar Oliveros, a 48-year-old telecommunications technician, said he backed Ledezma because he saw him as the best option for improving the city, saying some of Chavez's allies "do things halfway" and don't do a good job as administrators.

Many Chavez supporters, however, followed the party line and voted for the president's chosen candidates.

His dominance was especially apparent in poorer, rural states, while the opposition seemed to fare best in the affluent cities.

Chavez party spokesman Alberto Muller played down the opposition's resurgence.

"We are the country's foremost political force," Muller said, flanked by other red-clad Chavez allies. "We don't see an opposition victory on a political map painted red."

In 2004 state elections, Chavez allies swept all but two of 23 governorships and a majority of local offices.

After a decade in office, the president still enjoys solid popularity, but last year's defeat of his attempt to scrap term limits energized the opposition, which has also sought to capitalize on complaints about unchecked corruption, deteriorating public services and inflation that has topped 35 percent in Caracas.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just saw an excellent post addressing this event directly, by Peace Patriot.
The rightwing stupidly boycotted the last by-elections, so its "gains" in this one were
expectable. Looks like the millions of U.S. tax dollars poured into 'training' of the opposition, in Bushwhack USAID-NED programs, paid off for the Bushwhacks. Their side kept gubernatorial control of Zulia (the oil rich state on the Caribbean that has been the target of Bushwhack secessionist plotting) and won the mayoralty of Caracas. But I'd say that the "gains" were more a return to normality, after years of the rightwing insanity of perpetrating coups, strikes and recalls, and wrongfully challenging election results in one of the best election systems in the western hemisphere. They have made themselves look like fools. The rightwing has the advantages of millions of dollars in support from the Bushwhacks, and control of the largely corpo-fascist media. Sans a stupid boycott of the elections, they were bound to make "gains." Their USAID-NED "trainers" obviously saw this, and could even have designed things this way, and, if that is the case, then the few governorships and other offices they won (compared to the overwhelming overall Chavez victory--17 out of 20 states) cannot even be described as "gains." It is all just a Rovian 'news' manipulation--which, of course, assholes like Simon Romero at the NYT, play right into.

The country as a whole remains very much pro-Chavez. Chavez candidates won the great majority of offices. Chavez's personal approval rating remains in the 60% range.

-----

"Equivalent elections to those on 23 November took place in Venezuela in October 2004. Chávez's coalition of supporters won the elections in 80 per cent of the local authorities and 22 out of 24 governors.

"However, it should be noted that, during the run-up to the previous regional elections in October 2004, much of the opposition called on their supporters to abstain in an effort to discredit the Venezuelan electoral system, which they claimed was 'fraudulent' after their defeat in the August 2004 referendum on whether President Chávez would remain in office. These claims became increasingly unsustainable after electoral observation missions from the European Union, the OAS and the Carter Center repeatedly expressed satisfaction with the transparency, fairness, and inclusive nature of Venezuela's electoral system. As no such boycott will occur this time, it is reasonable to assume that this will strengthen the opposition's level of support, all other things being equal. It is hoped that accurate and honest media coverage will recognise this fact." --Venezuelan Information Office

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3975

------

The voters and citizens of Venezuela, their election system and their political system as a whole, continue to amaze and impress me. Imagine what things would be like here in the U.S., if we didn't have 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting run by very political rightwing corporations, with no auditability whatever in half the voting systems in the country, and imagine if we had a government that protected our voting rights, that encouraged citizen participation, and that operated with the transparency of Venezuela's government.

We would never have suffered the Bush junta, or, at least, we would not have suffered it for so long (8 years! --that have seemed like 8 decades). Now, no matter what Obama tries to do, he is hamstrung by a $10 TRILLION deficit (and counting)--a deficit that didn't have to be--and by a collpsing financial system (that also didn't have to be), and so much other damage to our government and society. It might as well have been 8 decades, because it is likely going to take that much time to recover, if we ever do.

South America suffered this corpo/fascist destruction and meltdown before we did. They were the testing ground for what is being done to us now--the looting of social programs and resources, the weakening of government in every respect--with secrecy, corruption and other means--so that it will not respond to the majority and see to the interests of the country as a whole; the privatization of everything, the rich getting richer, the poor sinking. But, by concentrating on democratic institutions--transparent vote counting, maximum citizen participation, grass roots organizing--the South Americans are now recovering, having elected leftist governments all over the continent.

What I fear, there and here--but it is more of a danger here, because of the weakness of our democratic institutions--is that a little recovery, a little prosperity, will attract the vultures again, to plunder and loot once again. We are facing 2012 with a nearly completely non-transparent vote counting system. The corpo-fascists who control it (as well as virtually all news and opinion in the country) could easily install another nazi regime, and we would be helpless to prevent it, especially with our Democratic Party leaders colluding on the non-transparent voting system. Venezuela--and most of South America--does not have this problem. The votes are counted in the public venue, and Left and Right contend on a more even playing field. If the voters there forget WHY socialist measures and strong government action and regulation were needed, well, that will be the fallout from democracy (and from continued corpo/fascist control of the media, there too)--forgetful, brainwashable voters (like those who voted for Reagan--who started the dismantling of the "New Deal" and the looting of the country by global corporate predators).

Here, the reversal of any gains for the people, under Obama, is much, much more easily accomplished. One insider hacker, a few lines of self-erasing code, and millions of votes can be switched.

You gotta laugh--sometimes that's all you have, laughter--at the Bushwhacks and their corpo/fascist media calling Chavez a "dictator" (and our benighted Democrats, even Obama, echoing in). It is so ludicrous. The "dictatorship" is HERE. WE are the ones with NON-TRANSPARENT voting counting. WE are the ones whose government tortured prisoners and slaughtered a million innocent people for their oil. WE are the ones who couldn't stop global corporate predators from destroying our country and hijacking our military for a corporate resource war.

WE are the ones who have suffered a dictatorship--and it's not over yet, just because the global corporate predators who rule over us permitted a liberal-seeming leader to take the reins for a while. Whatever he does, they can and will loot; they still have that power. Venezuela, on the other hand, is no longer ruled by Exxon Mobil and Washington DC. That's why they call Chavez a 'dictator'--just as the corpo/fascists called FDR a 'dictator'--a total reversal of the truth. They don't want us to remember who rules in a democratic country--the people!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3615896#3616292
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. the opposition won the populous areas and Caracas and Maracaibo
so think of winning California and New York versus all the rocky mountain states. comprendes??

its the Chavistas who have the advantage of millions of dollars, buying votes with appliances and the like, not to mention the propaganda like the Chavez comedy hour. or 4 hours.

however, it was the Venezuanlan people who voted for the the candidates of either party and not the Bush administration. if elections are "supposed to go" just one way there is no reason to have them.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Poor, poor thing. You seem to have fallen into a deep well of forgetfulness.
As Peace Patriot already pointed out in a message posted in this forum, Venezuelan opposition BOYCOTTED the last election totally. OF COURSE THEY WOULD HAVE GAINED GROUND over their last election. What could be more obvious?

As a reminder, an article from that time:
Opposition boycott as Venezuela heads for elections
Posted on: Wednesday, 30 November 2005, 22:43 CST

By Patrick Markey

CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - Most of Venezuela's main opposition parties are boycotting legislative elections on Sunday that could allow President Hugo Chavez to consolidate his self-proclaimed socialist revolution.

Accusing election officials of favoring Chavez, opposition parties fell into disarray just days before the election after struggling to compete with the president who has spent billions in oil revenues on health and education for the poor.

"We believe that a true, autonomous and independent electoral judge would not subject the people to elections in these conditions," Justice First party spokesman Gerardo Blyde said announcing his party's withdrawal.

Chavez, an ally of Cuba who has become one of Washington's fiercest critics, blasted the opposition boycott as a U.S.-backed propaganda move meant to strip the vote of its legitimacy and stoke tensions against his government.

"Venezuelans, like all people, have a right to free and fair elections," said U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack, rejecting the charges of U.S. meddling. "We are concerned that this right is increasingly in jeopardy."

Polls show Chavez is Venezuela's most popular leader and the opposition boycott could hand lawmakers supporting him the majority to pass reforms that critics fear will strengthen his hold on power before 2006 presidential elections.
More:
http://www.redorbit.com/news/international/317902/opposition_boycott_as_venezuela_heads_for_elections/index.html
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. well yeah, but its the Ven people who voted them in and they still won
I know you don't agree with them in the three most populous states and Caracas and Maracaibo but the people voted. Venezuelans are voting for change.

again, if you believe there should be only one outcome, why even have elections?
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