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Lawyer on Radio Globo saying that the golpistas were paid and Llorens was deceived.

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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:44 PM
Original message
Lawyer on Radio Globo saying that the golpistas were paid and Llorens was deceived.
That he was told they were only going to mount a protest.

The lawyer thinks it is an ultra right conspiracy to weaken Obama
by showing his weakness regardless of the results.

Seems to follow when we see who is dealing with the golpistas,
the Republicans.. who else?
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magbana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think it is possible for Llorens to have been deceived about
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 03:13 PM by magbana
anything that has happened in Honduras since he got there last year. There are too many reports of his meeting with golpistas prior to the coup and god knows how many times since. Llorens,Obama's Ambassador, knew exactly what the golpistas were up to because he was an integral part of the planning. Below see the excerpt from the following article

US Seeks Deal between Honduran Coup Leaders and Deposed President"
by Barry Grey
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=1...

EXCERPT
There is ample evidence that the Obama administration was deeply involved in plans by Zelaya’s opponents within the Honduran ruling elite—sections of business, the military, the political establishment and the Church—to destabilize or topple his government. The New York Times on Tuesday cited an unnamed US official as saying that US Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs Thomas Shannon and US Ambassador to Honduras Hugo Llorens spoke to “military officials and opposition leaders” in the days before the coup. He said, “There was talk of how they might remove the president from office, how he could be arrested, on whose authority they could do that.”

Both Shannon and Llorens served under the Bush administration as top advisers on Andean affairs—covering Venezuela, Colombia, Bolivia, Peru and Ecuador. Their stints on the National Security Council and at the State Department coincided with the US-backed coup that briefly toppled Venezuela’s Chávez in 2002.

It appears that the Obama administration was seeking to effect a de facto coup, but without a direct use of the military and under the cover of constitutional legality. That would, it hoped, reverse Washington’s declining influence in Latin America and pave the way for an offensive against Chávez and his left nationalist allies in Nicaragua, Bolivia, Ecuador and other countries aligned with Venezuela in the Bolivarian Alliance for the Americas.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Just consider the fact that Llorens can get entangled and that might be the goal nt
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magbana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Just like Llorens can't be deceived because he is one of the planners, Llorens, who like
many diplomats around the world, is probably a CIA agent. Also, after being security analyst for the Andes Region this guy ain't gonna get entangled in anything. Since, the US loves to circulate a small group of diplos through Latin American countries, let's see where Llorens ends up. That will be a good clue as to whether he was a smart cookie throughout his Honduran assignment or not.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. This got me thinking about Hillary

- Hillary is NOT right wing or ultra right though she plays w/them
- Hillary doesn't want chaos because of how this will be used by
the ultra right to undermine Obama, so she discourages Zelaya

- Perhaps the original idea was to get Obama to take even stronger
measures thus painting him with a Chavez brush and giving fuel to
the Obama is a socialist and is incompetent image they wish to
develop going in to the next elections

- But the main point if you think about it is that NONE OF THIS
MAKES ANY SENSE so one must look deeper, and I don't think it
is the same scenario as before Obama's election

- The whole world is against the coup. They cannot rule. So all
of this was created for other purposes and paid for .. so what
was the goal of the ultras and no doubt the Southern Command?

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magbana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. think money, think telecoms, wait for Machetera's article coming out shortly n/t
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Good. Is McCain prominent in all that? Cuban Americans? nt
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magbana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I'm getting ready to read the final draft now. Will drop a hint about this later n/t
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Oh, remember MasTec in Miami was started by ex-CIA member, CANF head, Jorge Mas Canosa.
It simply took over telecommunication in Miami, and has stretched its slimy tentacles everywhere it could find an opening, even becoming one of the first American companies to break into the Chinese market.

Jorge Mas Canosa made full use of his powerful allies which went all the way to the White House, starting with Ronald Reagan.

MasTec's currently controlled by the Mas family still, since the older powerful, vicious, Cuban terrorist-financing, pompous ass, chicken hawk father died of cancer in the 1990's.

Looking forward to reading what Machetera has learned.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Zelaya proposed converting the US air base to a commercial airport.
He wasn't the first to propose this. It's been around as a proposal for a while, since the airport near the capitol is inadequate for commercial travel. But he was probably the most serious about a complete conversion and removal of the US military base. Combined with his turning against US-dominated "free trade" (slave labor at pittance wages), his raising the minimum wage, his joining ALBA (regional barter trade group intended to elbow out US-dominated "free trade"), he was giving the Reich here and in Honduras reasons to oppose him, but the extremes they went to are puzzling, as you say. It doesn't make much sense. I think his alliance with Chavez is a red herring by the Reich and their corpo/fascist 'news' monopolies. He's allied with Chavez and with a whole bunch of other leaders who have strongly come to his defense--Lula da Silva in Brazil, Cristina Fernandez in Argentina, Michelle Batchelet in Chile, Rafael Correa in Ecuador, Evo Morales in Bolivia, and all of his immediate neighbors--the leaders of Guatemala, Nicaragua and El Salvador. Chavez is the Reich's bogey-man, on whom they blame any good ideas that arise anywhere for the benefit of the poor majority. They've poured dogged energy and probably billions of dollars into demonizing him. It's just ludicrous. But their "blaming" Zelaya's policies on Chavez may be an indication of what is really going on--that is, this coup is part of a war plan. The obvious target of this war is Venezuela's oil, and probably also Ecuador's and Cuba's. But even Lula da Silva in Brazil is worried about US aggression in regard to Brazil's oil. He mentioned this when the Bushwhacks reconstituted the US 4th Fleet in the Caribbean, last summer. He said it was a threat to Brazil's oil. (Everybody knows it's a threat to Venezuela.)

A lot of assets are being put in place for this war--for instance, five US military bases in Colombia--a country run by narco-fascists, with one of the worst human rights records on earth, and with fascist rule enforced by the brutal Colombian military, and where the Sec of Defense is now running for president. (Think, Donald Rumsfeld--that's who Santos very much resembles). Colombia has a long border with Venezuela, and Venezuela has already had a lot of trouble from the Colombian military and its death squads in the border regions. Another asset: Honduras. Those planning Oil War II-South America want a friendly government in Honduras--the current coupsters, or some less ugly substitute (their fallback position)--in order to take advantage of Honduras' strategic location as a launching pad for aggression in Central America and the Caribbean (like some of these same operatives--John Negroponte, Otto Reich--did in the 1980s). Honduras doesn't have oil, but it sure has location--including a long coast on the Caribbean, access to the Pacific, and borders with three countries now with leftist governments. It has an existing US military base. Its military officers are trained at the School of the Americas and have a history of human rights abuse. Honduras is a client state of the US, controllable through military and other funding. Zelaya was trying to change that--to assert Honduran sovereignty and independence. They had to get rid of him.

What I'm saying is that this coup in Honduras is a move by which to further demonize Chavez, and then take Venezuela's oil--most of which is located on its northern Caribbean coast, in provinces where rightwing politicians talk openly of secession. They may also try to take Ecuador's northern oil state (bordering Colombia to the south), and other oil, maybe Cuba's, maybe even Brazil's. These oil fields are essentially undefended, right in the US "backyard." The Reich was denied Iran. Where else can they get the oil they need to rule the world?

These war planners have the immense obstacle, in this era of the internet and iPhones, of the success of the leftist democracy movement in most of South America and half of Central America. They've tried their corpo/fascist best to paint Chavez as a "dictator"--to smear the entire left with that brush--but the problem is that Chavez is not a dictator, and everybody south of the border knows this, and many people know it here as well, due in part to fast internet communications. All the other new or relatively new leftist leaders of Latin America--in Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Ecuador, Bolivia, Uruguay, Paraguay, Nicaragua, Guatemala and El Salvador--and in Honduras until the coup--support Chavez, as they are supporting Zelaya. They scorned the Bushwhacks' demonization of Chavez. They defied it. They made strong economic and political alliances with him. Lula da Silva defended Chavez specifically on the issue of democracy. (He said, "They can make up a lot of things to criticize Chavez, but not on democracy!") The Latin Americans are not putting up with US interference any more. And even centrist (Costa Rica) and rightwing (Mexico) leaders hugely resent it--or at least they have to say that they do (because the vast majority of their people do). It's a struggle for our corpo/fascists to find any allies in Latin America. They have to buy them, big time--with huge amounts of our money ($6 BILLION to the Colombian military alone).

They thought they had Honduras sewn up. Zelaya, once a member of the oligarchy, turned on them--because US-dominated "free trade" and military aid have done nothing for Honduras except to make it extremely poor and dependent. He wants Honduras to be part of the potential powerhouse Latin American trade block which is based on social justice policies, bootstrapping the poor, using local resources for local benefits, and true democracy, in which everyone has a say and everyone has a chance at a decent life. The South Americans formalized their "common market" last summer--UNASUR. UNASUR's very first act was to strongly and unanimously back Evo Morales, when he threw the US ambassador out of the country for funding and organized white separatist rioters and murderers, who wanted to secede from Morales' national government, and take Bolivia's gas and oil reserves with them. Brazil's and Argentina's economic power, organized through UNASUR, stopped that coup.

Latin American resources for Latin Americans. That is the critical issue in US relations with Latin America. The Bushwhacks failed colossally to impose the will of US corporations on Latin America, and lost much ground. So now the Reich here wants war. And the Democrats? They did not object to Oil War I. Many enthusiastically supported it. Will they do the same for Oil War II--whether setting it up for a future Bushwhack, or letting themselves get Gulf-of-Tonkinned into it? Or will they balk at assaults on democratic countries in our own hemisphere, and adhere to Obama's stated policy of peace, respect and cooperation? I don't know, But it may be irrelevant what they or the Reich does. Latin America may just determine their own fate, this time around.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. People here definitely need to know about that airport issue. Corporate media won't mention it, nor
the vast improvements already secured for the huge Honduran majority by their elected President.

They will take back their honor which has been trampled underfoot by US greed, and US sociopathic need to control at all costs to all people unlucky enough to be born in the wrong country.

The future will show the nations standing up against this tyranny, in time, and repelling the intruders, and the treacherous oligarchs who have accomodated them.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. There are 300 people on the road near the border still without food or shelter
and Radio Globo reports paramilitaries going there. Not sure
I got this information right. They are flying over them with
helicopters, intimidation.

They did not let the Red Cross get past the military blockades.

People are sick there and who knows what else. I'm not sure if
they got water or not.

People are there 4-5 days now. Everything is shut down.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Unbelievable situation. Horrendous. Thanks for this update. n/t
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magbana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. The number may be right, here is a correction from the guy on the indigenous
involved in the detention.

If the 230 number below is right and involved indigenous and Garifuna, the military would love nothing better than to start whacking on them while they are hidden in the woods.

Update on COPINH--correction
Posted by: "Greg McDonald" sabocat59@mac.com gregiww
Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:57 am (PDT)


The group of COPINH being pursued in the mountains numbers 230
people, not 30. They are also accompanied by members of the Afro-
Caribe Garifuna group OFRANEH.

<http://resistenciamorazan.blogspot.com/>

domingo 26 de julio de 2009
URGENTE - 230 compañeros del COPINH y de OFRANEH estan siendo
perseguidos por el ejercito en la montaña intentando llegar a Las Manos
Nuestros compañeros indigenas y garifunas se encuentran en la montaña
intentando llegar al puesto fronterizo de Las Manos, entre los
compañeros se encuentran Miryam Miranda, Bertha Caceres, Salvador
Zuñiga y Alfredo Lopez.

Se ha perdido el contacto con ellos, y la ultimá vez que supimos de
ellos fue hace 6 horas, cuando denunciaban estar perseguidos por el
ejercito.
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