Ecuador says U.S. helped Colombia plan '08 bombing

[Judi Lynn]

Ecuador says U.S. helped Colombia plan '08 bombing
By Hugh Bronstein Hugh Bronstein – 1 hr 39 mins ago

QUITO (Reuters) – U.S. intelligence from inside Ecuador was used to plan a 2008 bombing by Colombian troops that killed a top FARC guerrilla chieftain inside Ecuadorean territory, the government said on Thursday.

A 130-page report prepared by the Ecuadorean government says U.S. forces then based in the Pacific coast town of Manta helped Colombian troops target Raul Reyes, No. 2 commander of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC).

The March 2008 bombing, carried out in an Ecuadorean border area called Angostura, triggered a diplomatic crisis in the region. Ecuador and Colombia are just now reestablishing diplomatic ties severed by Quito after the raid.

Ecuador has since ended its Manta cooperation agreement, prompting Washington to sign a deal with Colombia in October allowing U.S. forces to carry out anti-drug operations from seven Colombian military bases.

More:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091211/wl_nm/us_ecuador_usa_raid

[EFerrari]

1. No surprise is it, Judi Lynn? n/t

[Judi Lynn]

3. No surprise whatsoever. What kind of people help others drop bombs in their host country?

No one could get any sneakier, and dirtier than that.

Glad they called _Bush on this publicly.

[Bacchus39]

2. looks like the US and Colombia got their man n/t

s

[Peace Patriot]

4. You're for blowing 25 sleeping people away without benefit of trial? It figures. nt

[Zorro]

5. Why do you support the FARC narcoterrorists?

[Peace Patriot]

6. And why do you support the Colombian military and their closely tied rightwing paramilitary

death squads, and Uribe and his narco-thug regime?

Amnesty International and other human rights groups have documented the massive slaughter of union leaders, human rights workers, journalists, peasant farmers and others, at the hands of the Colombian military and its death squads. In the case of union leaders, 92% have been murdered by the Colombian military (about half) and their death squads (the other half) and only 2% by the FARC (Amnesty International report). In the case of union leaders and all others--all extrajudicial killings in Colombia--75% were committed by the Colombian military and its death squads (also about half and half). (UN Human Rights Commission report.) The lethal violence by the Colombian military and its death squads DWARFS violence by the FARC.

As for Uribe, some fifty of his political cohorts, including family members, are under investigation or have been indicted, convicted and imprisoned for connections to the death squads and drug trafficking. What a gem he is--the former go-to guy for the Medellin Cartel, graduated to becoming the go-to buy for the Bush Cartel.

I'm for fair trials for everybody. The slaughter of 25 sleeping people is WRONG. This was not a firefight. This was a mass slaughter of sleeping people at a temporary hostage release camp, with massive bombing and a border raid. No trials. And it furthermore ended hopes of a peaceful end to Colombia's 40+ year civil war, and nearly started another war. How can YOU support such extralegal activity by the U.S. and Colombian militaries?

I don't "support" anybody's crimes. But you apparently do--as long as they are fascist crimes.

[Zorro]

10. Apparently your objection is that it wasn't a "fair" firefight against terrorists

Live by the sword, die by the sword. That's the life they chose to live, and Reyes and the rest of his kidnapping terrorist cohorts discovered the consequences of their decisions.

And if you actually had a true interest in peace, you'd acknowledge that there's blood on the hands of all sides of the conflict, instead of consistently promoting a pro-FARC agenda.

[Peace Patriot]

11. You consistently mis-represent my position...

...and that tactic is no better than the Bushwhacks and the warmongers who accuse anyone who promotes the PEACEFUL, DIPLOMATIC alternative to war as being a "terrorist lover," or, in former times, a "commie lover."

I don't support the FARC, but YOU support the Colombian government, the Colombian military and their closely tied rightwing paramilitary death squads, who are committing the vast majority of extrajudicial murders in Colombia.

The bombing/raid on the Reyes' camp was EXTRAJUDICIAL MURDER. TWENTY-FIVE people were blown away, including visiting Mexican students apparently there on a humanitarian mission (the release of Ingrid Betancount) and a citizen of Ecuador. There was no justification for it. It was NOT firefight. This was INDISCRIMINATE murder--and its purpose was POLITICAL--to stop all the hopes for peace in Colombia's civil war.

No trial. No habeas corpus. No statement of the charges against you. No evidence. No witnesses brought forth. No defense. 25 people blown to smithereens, on Ecuadoran soil, in utter contempt of the sovereignty and the laws of that country, and very nearly starting a war.

That's what YOU are defending. I am defending the RULE OF LAW.

[Zorro]

12. And still no condemnation of FARC atrocities from you

No condemnation of the FARC's presence in Ecuador, and no acknowledgement of Ecuador's complicity in allowing FARC to set up camps within its boundary to plan and execute cross-border attacks.

Just excuses.

So much for your professed support for the RULE OF LAW. Your pro-FARC, anti-US bias is quite evident.

[EFerrari]

14. You blame everyone for the presence of FARC but the Colombian government.

Misdirection and excuses.

[Zorro]

16. And no condemnation of FARC atrocities from you, either

Why do you avoid doing so?

[EFerrari]

18. Does that strawman dance, do windows or anything useful or amusing?

[Zorro]

19. Well, it exposes your pro-FARC, anti-US foreign policy agenda

[EFerrari]

20. LOL. You're hilarious, Zorro.

[Judi Lynn]

21. "Get off my lawn, you commies."

http://friendsoftheprogram.files.wordpress.com.nyud.net:8090/2008/07/brains.jpg

[Zorro]

23. And yet another empty response from DU's resident LatAm motormouth

Although using a picture of Joe Paterno is not exactly going to endear you to a lot of readers.

[Zorro]

22. And yet you still won't condemn FARC atrocities

Still evading making that response, I see.

[EFerrari]

24. I won't say I stopped beating my wife, either.

:hi:

[Peace Patriot]

15. "Anti-US"? Born & bred in the USA. And my chosen name is "Peace PATRIOT" for a good reason!

Nobody is more loyal than I am to the US Constitution and to the highest traditions of democracy and fair play in our country's history. Nobody! How dare you say that I am "anti-US"! I am anti-global corporate predation, and anti-war profiteering. I am anti-monopoly and anti-elite. And, by God, when people are accused of crimes, I want to see a TRIAL. Mass slaughter of sleeping people is anti-US. Invasion of another country--in violation of international law, when no "hot pursuit" is occurring--is anti-US. Death squad slaughter of thousands of union leaders is anti-US. Fascist elite control of all the wealth in a country is anti-US. Vast impoverishment and vast displacement of poor people is anti-US.

To me, the US stands for fairness and opportunity, and for human and civil rights. That is my US. And no matter how far our government strays from those ideals, they are still my US.

Those who have hijacked our government into the service of global corporate predators and war profiteers are the ones who are anti-US.

Why should I condemn the FARC, when it is the Colombian government and military who commit the vast majority of extrajudicial murders in Colombia? I don't condone anyone's violence. But it is unfair to condemn the weak side, the least violent of these two parties to a civil war. I repeat: 92% of the murders of union leaders in Colombia have been committed by the Colombian military and its closely tied paramilitary death squads. Until those murderers are all in jail, it is mere rightwing propaganda to dwell on the crimes of the FARC guerrilla fighters. The latter don't have $6 BILLION in US military aid to commit crimes with. THAT is my responsibility--my tax dollars used to slaughter thousands of union leaders and others! The FARC are a local problem. The Colombian military is MY problem, because *I* am funding it!

Without the mass slaughter of union leaders, political leftists, community organizers, journalists, human rights workers, advocates of the poor, peasant farmers and others, and the vast displacement of peasant farmers (an estimated 2 to 3 million displaced people in Colombia--tens of thousands of whom have fled across the borders into Venezuela and Ecuador), and without the threats, bullying, fear and repression against millions of poor people that is occurring in Colombia, Colombia might have had a chance to create a decent society, like the rest of Latin America is trying to do. There is no other armed leftist resistance in Latin America, because the rest of Latin America is trying to address social justice issues and issues of democracy and empowerment. Colombia is the only exception. They have an armed resistance because they are such goddamned fascists and address issues of social injustice with murder. This death spiral of civil war violence cannot be stopped with more murder. I don't support the FARC when they do it. But I am appalled at what the Colombian government has done and continues to do. I just saw a report that hundreds of teachers have been murdered this year by the Colombian military's death squads. NOTHING the FARC has done matches the Colombian government in carnage. Nothing! Billions of US tax dollars are supporting this government's slaughter of innocents in Colombia. That is my concern, as well as US actions to defeat peace.

And, you know, your accusing me of being "anti-US" tells me a lot about your charge that Ecuador "permits" FARC camps within its borders "to plan and execute cross border attacks." Like a lot of rightwing propaganda, the reverse is more than likely true, and I have seen some reports and documentation that the reverse is true: that the Colombian military is using the excuse of their civil war to send death squads over the border into Ecuador and Venezuela. Rightwing propaganda tends to get wild-eyed like this: according to you, because I condemn the Colombian government for their dreadful mass slaughter of innocents, and fail to condemn the weaker and far less lethal force, I am somehow "anti-US."

I am for the US doing the right thing. That does not make me "anti-US." You've gone way over the top with that charge. So why should I believe anything else that you assert?

[Zorro]

17. Yeah yeah yeah you're a real "peace" patriot

who still can't seem to truly condemn FARC atrocities because they're the "weak side".

Instead of relying on uncorroborated reports of hundreds of teachers "murdered this year" by Colombian military "death squads" or "mass slaughter...", you should go to Colombia or Ecuador and see things for yourself.

[EFerrari]

25. Most people advance from concrete operational thinking by the time they're 12.

At least give it a shot. It may not be too late for you.

[Zorro]

27. Actually concrete operational planning is precisely what's called for

when responding to terrorists.

You've certainly demonstrated your capacity for concrete thinking, but in an entirely different context.

[EFerrari]

28. Well, how paranoid is that. Moving beyond concrete operational thinking

is the skill that allows you to know someone on the other side of the door still exists. And that it's possible to study Rome without being an ancient Roman.

As I said earlier, don't give up on yourself.

[Braulio]

7. You are right

They should have bombed the place with sleeping gas, captured them in their sleep, interrogated them, put them on trial, then shot them if found guilty. The indiscriminate use of bombs is counterproductive. I bet many of them would have talked a lot if given kind treatment, and the intelligence gathered would have been even more effective.

The US is beginning to deploy very modern signal gathering equipment to help the Colombians defeat the FARC, it makes more sense to try to capture those guerrillas, and then put them in re-training camps where they can be taught the error of their ways, and use the information obtained from them to destroy the FARC.

[Downwinder]

8. If one person is a target, whether or not he is present, all others

with no numerical limit are just collateral damage.

[Braulio]

9. Well, that's why I say use sleeping gas

I've seen too many innocent people colaterally damaged by US bombs.

[rabs]

13. U.S. Embassy in Quito yesterday issued a denial

Communique issued in Spanish and published today in El Comercio of Quito (my translation)

“Esas acusaciones fueron hechas anteriormente y, como se ha hecho en repetidas ocasiones, la Embajada las rechaza categóricamente. El Puesto de Operaciones Avanzadas (FOL) de Manta no estuvo involucrado de ninguna manera ni en el ataque colombiano contra Angostura ni en proporcionar datos de inteligencia.”.

- Those accusation were made previously and, as has been done on repeated occasions, the Embassy rejects (them) categorically. The FOL (Manta base) was not involved in any manner in the Colombian attack against Angostura nor did it supply intelligence data."

---------------------

Seems like plausible denial, because highly doubtful that the Pentagon/SoCom would have advised the civilians in the embassy that a highly secret strike was about to go down.

----------------

In Bogota, Gen. Freddy Padilla, commander of the Colombian armed forces, also denied the U.S. had been involved and repeated Colombia's claims that it had been carried out strickly by Colombian forces.

[Bacchus39]

26. maybe send Colombian forces to get Bin Laden???? n/t

s