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steven johnson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:04 PM
Original message
Venezuelan Seeks to Revive anti-Chavez Movement
Source: Associated Press

VALENCIA, Venezuela (AP) -- They range from wealthy businessmen to boisterous students and poor single mothers, jammed together 10,000 strong in a stadium, chanting ''change is possible!'' and shoving forward to greet the man who is challenging President Hugo Chavez's grip on power.

But in elections last year, anti-Chavez candidates rebounded, capturing the Caracas mayoralty and five of the 24 states, including three of Venezuela's most populous. The pro-Chavez congress struck back by removing power and budgets from local and state officials.

Lopez, who had won a landslide victory to become mayor of Chacao, one of the capital's wealthiest districts, was barred from seeking re-election because of the corruption probe. The case is still open two years later, even though no charges have been filed.

''That's the strategy: They shelve my case indefinitely, trying to end my political career,'' Lopez said.


Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/12/26/world/AP-LT-Venezuela-Challenging-Chavez.html?_r=1



I guess not everyone likes Hugo.
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Teabaggers? n/t
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. How long until the Chavenistas pour in and start a vigorous defense of their saint
:popcorn:
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Flaneur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The correct term is "Chavistas."
Edited on Sat Dec-26-09 02:42 PM by Flaneur
Kind of the opposite of "derechistas reacionarias."
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I have seen several variations. That spelling was the first one I could find.
But the meaning is clear.

1st batch of popcorn is just about ready
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. You've very sloppy for a professor. n/t
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. If its not in the Oxford Dictionary, there is no formally correct spelling
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. Why should "Chavista" be in the OED? It's a SPANISH word. n/t
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Don't confuse him with logic.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #45
66. Son, I say son, don't you know a joke when you see it
The problem with ideologues is that they are so damn serious all the time...besides, I don't think its in any Spanish dictionary either
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. Weak, sneaky people who actually DON'T have the depth for real humor
insist on claiming their poorly camouflaged insufficiency and hostility should be recognized as brilliant wit reflecting a joyous, well focused, well disposed sensibility.

Tragic. A cry for help.

You only look even more confused when attacking a person of EFerrari's quality, you "progressive", you.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #43
65. You truly do not understand
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 03:07 PM by ProgressiveProfessor
I don't think its in any Spanish dictionary either
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. Really? I found it easily enough on line.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. wow, wrong word. and you can find Chavenista online too although I agree with Progressive P
its not in the dictionary
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
49. I prefer Hugonauts nt
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
62. It is "derechistas reaccionarios", Flaneur
And the term "chavista" doesn't define followers of an ideology. It defines followers of a leader. I don't see how opposites are built in a case like that.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. see post #9
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Sorry, Chavez isn't my Saint,
but definitely I'll chime in. He had dones more for the poor, the illiterate, than all of the corrupt politicians before him. He's hated because he uses his own oil to do this, and is probably 'wasting it' to those outside Venezuela who believe it belongs to them, as with Hussein's, Iran's, etc., etc.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. Well here I am ready to pay homage to Saint Hugo.
But you could change that by imparting you knowledge of Venezuela on us....you must know a lot I take it from your profile...
"Hawaii born techie retired from a big job and now teaching college in California"
Tell us what that big job was and what you teach....could it be South American History?
I am ready to hear some facts from a professor that knows something.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. It will take longer than you take to put up gratuitous slams.
And, it's "Chavistas", professor.
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Way2go Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Must be a lot of rich people in Caracas! And lots of people who

are happy to show up for cameras...for only a small pittance from rich folks.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. 10,000 people isn't very many.
The population of Caracas is about 3 million.
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Getting 10,000 people together is still a feat
Anyone who has ever been involved in organizing knows that.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. No it isn't.
If you've got money to pay boisterous students and poor single mothers to show up, then they'll show up in droves.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. The pro-Albanian communists can do that in Caracas.
It's not too hard in a politicized environment. This is just the scum of Venezuelan society.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. They are familiar with one of theirs, Yon Goicoechea,getting a $500,000.00 prize from Cato Institute
another young college lad.

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com.nyud.net:8090/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/080511/080511-student-hmed-9a.hmedium.jpg

Yon, chillin' in Venezuela, perhaps after a hard day plannning the next march of the right-wing brats.

http://cache.daylife.com.nyud.net:8090/imageserve/0aMQau10MAdZ9/610x.jpg

http://www.radiomundial.com.ve.nyud.net:8090/yvke/files/t_yongo_196_346.jpg http://graphics8.nytimes.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2007/11/10/world/10venez.600.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com.nyud.net:8090/2333/2659189778_0e1a8b8d51.jpg

http://www.globoterror.com.nyud.net:8090/files/images/goicopremio.jpg http://www.wikiberal.org.nyud.net:8090/w/images/thumb/8/82/Yon_Goicoechea.jpg/150px-Yon_Goicoechea.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com.nyud.net:8090/imageserve/00X1d4n9OI17e/610x.jpg

AP Photo 19 months ago
A small group of people protest in front of the Waldorf-Astoria in New York, Thursday, May 15, 2008. They were protesting the awarding of the Milton Friedman Prize for Advancing Liberty to Yon Goicoechea, who has led a student movement against Hugo Chavez' regime in Venezuela.

As we know, his sponsor, the US ""think" tank", Cato Institute favors privatizing anti-democratic programs like Social Security, has people like Rupert Murdoch on its board of directors.

And there they are, also, meddling in Venezuela's political world, paying off spoiled, pointless, bratty bloated little ####s like this guy, rewarding them for organizing students against the elected President of Venezuela.

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Mudoria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. His popularity is sinking..
He's good at making speeches but not so good at actually running anything. He probably needs to take lessons from Morales of Bolivia on how to run a country. Or Uribe of Colombia. Both of which have stronger economies and are more popular in their respective lands.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yes, that's what the elites want so as to get their privatized hands on his resources.
This "anti-Chavez" crap is so damn transparent. :eyes:
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. On "his" resources?
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. 'His' and his people's resources.
The people of Venezuela, to whom the oil belongs. 'He' represents them. 'His' is figurative, if you'll read any of his writing.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #33
51. Got nothing to do with oil
Polls show Chavez' popularity is waning. People are starting to get tired of high inflation, high crime, lack of electricity, lack of water, and a President who spends too much time talking on TV and won't let them watch their soap operas and baseball games.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Uribe has a subsidized economy with US and drug trafficking dollars n/t
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. And Venezuela has an abundance of oil. Any other advantages we should add in here?
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. abundance of oil in an independent nation
on the other hand Colombia is a dependant nation of US military dollars and US drug users which make them be less than independent.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
32. Take lessons from Uribe of Colombia????
You are kidding, aren't you?
Take lessons from one of the last US puppet Right Wing Narco State Oligarchs that still openly murders Union activists and potential leaders of any opposition?...that is still in power solely because of Billions in "Aid" from the USA?

THAT Uribe?

No thanks.

The Colombian People will deal with Uribe soon enough.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. making suggestions to take lessons from a fascist like Uribe?
I had doubts, but not anymore.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
46. Yeah, Uribe could teach him how to massacre civilians. Great idea n/t
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. Associated Press feeds us an anti-Chavez = anti-socialism = anti-progressive story every week
Edited on Sat Dec-26-09 03:57 PM by LaPera
as we eat up all these right-wing AP stories as truth and nothing but the truth.....Yes, this all it takes for the imbeciles to parrot the multi-naitonal corporations media position, as they pontificate about Chavez, of which they fucking know absolutely nothing about, except what they see in AP or some other corporate media source....

Watch how they babble their shit from these same corporate sources, the same sources that want all of Latin America to be as they've always had it & want it to stay. Simply to maximize corporate profits US corporate greed promotes the right-wing dictators, a habitually uneducated peasant class, oppression of the people and their civil rights, the stealing of countries resources, labor, agriculture, tourism, land, and a cheap dumping ground for chemicals & other pollutants...

When anyone decides to fight against the corporate interest, to offer a different way to govern than the almost exclusive right-wing dictators......they are harassed, infiltrated by the CIA, given only slanted media coverage as well as military intimidation.....and you can always bet AP will be used to do character assassinations on progressives/liberals/socialist with tons of slanted bullshit pro corporation stories..... while the same know nothing fools, idiots, pawns, cheer loudly for the unfairness of the corporations interest since they of course don't have to live under the right-wing dictators rule and the peasant living conditions.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I think you have something there.
The article reads in a way that infers what Chavez is doing looks bad, yet, the same items written in a different way could infer the opposite. Such writing makes extraction of truth and formation of opinion difficult.

Unfortunately, that leads to not knowing, which leads to fear, which leads to knee-jerk decisions about people such as Chavez.

Our media is our shame.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Where was AP when previous Vene. president, Carlos Andres Perez ordered his troops to murder 3,000
protesters who surged into the streets after he passed through legislation which raised the price of their food, heating fuel, and transportation so high they could not afford it any longer? He alone is responsible for "El Caracazo" massacre.

His government claims they slaughtered "only 300" Venezuelan protesters, but it is believed world-wide there were at least 3,000, some of them buried in mass graves. The police he ordered originally to go kill the protesters walked away, refused, quit their jobs, he followed up by sending in his military to get the job done. He was later impeached and jailed for corruption, embezzlement of many millions of dollars, etc.

The last elected President Rafael Caldera had ENOURMOUS problems. (He died this Christmas Eve, incidently.)

Rather than swallowing the pure crap from AP, etc. and US corporate media, these people need to start engaging their own energy and do their own research. It's not that damned hard.

If they only KNEW what the situation is, rather than swallowing obvious crap, then we'd have far more real information available here. They should live with self-respect, by seeking the truth.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Gee. Where is the AP EVER when it comes to reporting?
Still, I've seen worse from them.

At least they point out:
    By ''elites,'' he means the wealthy but fragmented -- and increasingly gray-haired -- opposition. But he too could be called elite, coming from a wealthy Caracas family, educated at Kenyon and Harvard in the American ''empire'' that Chavez reviles.

    Chavez supporters dismiss him as a self-interested rich kid seeking to recover what the country's wealthy ''oligarchy'' has lost to Chavez's socialist measures. But his supporters love his charisma, his message of change, and his blonde wife, Lilian Tintori, a champion kite-surfer.



    (Photo courtesy of Wilms)

    snip

    Lopez, who had won a landslide victory to become mayor of Chacao, one of the capital's wealthiest districts, was barred from seeking re-election because of the corruption probe. The case is still open two years later, even though no charges have been filed.

    snip

    ''Many Venezuelans may have increasing doubts about Chavez, but they don't want to go back to politics as usual, pre-Chavez,'' said Michael Shifter of the Inter-American Dialogue think tank in Washington ''If the parties don't open up, they will never be energized and renewed, and potential supporters won't get on board.''

    snip


As for the legal problems, the AP story fails to mention that it is a nepotism charge...just like so many feel obligated to accuse Chavez of.

All in all, I think the piece points out quite a bit, however. I'll give the AP a B- on this one.

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. So this would be the equivalent of the mayor of Beverly Hills leading a counterrevolution
n/t.

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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. wonder why the right wing is using women breast to promote their agenda.
it's not fair to women
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. And back then how our MSM only focused on Tienanmen Square
They were prodding the protesters in China to do something.

What happened in Venezuela was far deadlier, despite a much smaller population. The folks there did not put a symbol of the "enemy" in front of the soldiers. They were pissed the government was helping corrupt business hoard food in warehouses to jack up the prices to ridiculous levels.

http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/victor/venezuela1989.htm
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. Isn't it odd? Flexible moral positioning by the US.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Stop knowing stuff. You are embarrassing the kneejerk red meat crowd!
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
52. Very nice
I like the way you string your slogans together. But you left out something against religion, and of course you should have mentioned something about "empowering the masses to develop their popular power and build communal development to preserve their resources in a sustainable way". LOL.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. are there any wealthy businessmen in Venezuela?
Edited on Sat Dec-26-09 04:02 PM by AlphaCentauri
wasn't everybody talking how Hugo was oppressing their freedom$$$$

More lies about Hugo uncover.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Lots (and in Florida & other locations) But just like other Latin countries the rich want it ALL
Edited on Sat Dec-26-09 03:58 PM by LaPera
and know they can use the American people with stories about the rich & corporations being treated so unfairly to get it all back for them....

Where ever the rich are being told to share a bit of their wealth, the rich everywhere feel threatened and will lie, cheat, distort, smear to get people to take their side (usually all it takes are corporate media stories)....But get real, they are the fucking rich, the wealthy, the land owners, the oppressors and they want it all back, - fuck the people!

And once the media makes a devil out of the wealthy' enemy, the American people will allow their tax paid military to go in and take back the country & it's resources for the rich and the corporations....Uh, Iraq is a good example, the corporations are back in biz there in full profit making force.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. the right wing on DU seems to want to help
Edited on Sat Dec-26-09 04:49 PM by fascisthunter
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
21. "Brains"
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. What do they mean, "revive"?
lol
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. No poor people would want Chavez overthrown.
If you live in a barrio in Caracas, you know you have nothing to gain from giving power back to the rich. None of them gained anything when the rich took Nicaragua back in 1990.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #26
53. Venezuela isn't Nicaragua
If you look at election results, you'll see the Caracas Metropolitan Distric elections were won by a Chavez opponent last year. Just in case you don't get the math, this means the majority of the people in the Capital district, including of course the middle class and enough of the poor, are tired of Chavez. Now try to explain that away.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
38. You GUESS not everyone likes Hugo? Yeah golly gee whiz maybe so.
I guess the US government might not like him because we supported the 2002 coup attempt against him. I guess the US govt might not like him because the revised National Security Strategy of the USA, released in 2006 says, "In Venezuela, a demagogue awash in oil money is undermining democracy and seeking to destabilize the region." I guess the International Monetary Fund might not like him because he bailed out some other Latin American countries so they wouldn't have to accept the IMF's punishing trickle down economic terms. I guess the WTO might not like him either because he might have encouraged that other savvy lefty, Lula of Brazil, who refused to accept financial derivatives as part of trade deals and now has a much stronger economy than others who were too weak to resist WTO pressures. And you know, I kinda sorta guessed that the corporate rulers of the global economy didn't like that obnoxious upstart President Chavez since I have seen years of predominantly negatively slanted articles about him in our most respected news sources, including the NYT and BBC.

an article from 2006, during the reign of Bush II...
the ascendance of Venezuela within OPEC necessarily means the decline of the power of the House of Saud. And the Bush family wouldn't like that one bit. It comes down to "petro-dollars." When George W. ferried then-Crown Prince (now King) Abdullah of Saudi Arabia around the Crawford ranch in a golf cart it wasn't because America needs Arabian oil. The Saudis will always sell us their petroleum. What Bush needs is Saudi petro-dollars. Saudi Arabia has, over the past three decades, kindly recycled the cash sucked from the wallets of American SUV owners and sent much of the loot right back to New York to buy U.S. Treasury bills and other U.S. assets.

The Gulf potentates understand that in return for lending the U.S. Treasury the cash to fund George Bush's $2 trillion rise in the nation's debt, they receive protection in return. They lend us petro-dollars, we lend them the 82nd Airborne. Chavez would put an end to all that. He'll sell us oil relatively cheaply-but intends to keep the petro-dollars in Latin America. Recently, Chavez withdrew $20 billion from the U.S. Federal Reserve and, at the same time, lent or committed a like sum to Argentina, Ecuador, and other Latin American nations.

Chavez, notes The Wall Street Journal, has become a "tropical IMF." And indeed, as the Venezuelan president told me, he wants to abolish the Washington-based International Monetary Fund, with its brutal free-market diktats, and replace it with an "International Humanitarian Fund," an IHF, or more accurately, an International Hugo Fund. In addition, Chavez wants OPEC to officially recognize Venezuela as the cartel's reserve leader, which neither the Saudis nor Bush will take kindly to.
....
Bush's reaction to Chavez has been a mix of hostility and provocation. Washington supported the coup attempt against Chavez in 2002, and Condoleezza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld have repeatedly denounced him. The revised National Security Strategy of the United States of America, released in March, says, "In Venezuela, a demagogue awash in oil money is undermining democracy and seeking to destabilize the region."

So when the Reverend Pat Robertson, a Bush ally, told his faithful in August 2005 that Chavez has to go, it was not unreasonable to assume that he was articulating an Administration wish. "If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him," Robertson said, "I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop." http://www.truthout.org/article/greg-palast-hugo-chavez
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Good material from Greg Palast. He points out NO country allows
foreign funding of political campaigns, yet the serious ones among certainly remember he poured US taxpayer-dervided millions, along with funding from the International Republican Institute, into political anti-Chavez groups for this purpose throughout the Bush stolen Presidency.

Too bad there aren't more US journalists of the caliber of Greg Palast. As we know, some of them have died unexpectedly.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #39
54. The little suitcase
So did Greg discuss the suitcase full of cash they caught coming off a PDVSA plane in Buenos Aires, cash meant to finance the Cristina Fernandez election run? LOL
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Who cares?
There are too many uncertainties and inconsistencies to draw any definite conclusions about that. There were many people involved, about whom there is very little information. Interestingly, Antonini Wilson was never charged with anything in that case. Prosecutors said he was unaware the money was in the suitcase, and that he was carrying it on behalf of another passenger. He was presumably aboard the flight as a result of a request by the son of the then vice president of PDVSA. He now lives in luxury in Miami, and the U.S. government refuses to extradite him to Argentina. He has also been linked to political opposition in Venezuela.

The whole episode lacks any real gravity, which is why it is regarded with such nonchalance in Latin America. It's not as if the money was used along with a campaign of lies to launch the invasion and rapine of another country or anything. Know what I mean, Vern?
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Venezuelans who see the public money flying abroad in suitcases without any previous approval? nt.
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 01:53 PM by ChangoLoa
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. I don't know...
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 02:30 PM by ronnie624
Chavez is still quite popular among the Venezuelan working class and poor. They did, after all, vote to eliminate term limits, even after the money filled suitcase episode. They don't appear too upset about it.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. Indeed
But I don't think that no one cares about PDVSA's money (state money) flying abroad without the Assembly approving it. Even for chavistas. Something bad obviously happened there, it's public money disappearing. What and who did it? I don't really know because there's still no judicial case for that event in Venezuela.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
42. Of course there is not unanimity.
But I assure that the opposition will not win. It simply will not happen. The PSUV will maintain an absolute majority. Chavez has been far too lenient with the gang of traitors and fascists who have no respect for the constitution.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
47. I Rec'd this thread because it is interesting.
I'm not leaning one way or the other about Hugo Chavez, and anyway, that isn't a proper reason to Rec or Unrec a thread.
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
48. The meddlers
from the north are up to their old dirty tricks again,can you spell CIA?
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #48
61. Unfortunately
some people seem to think that the mere existence of the empire, its CIA and the 2002 coup mean that no independent/progressive opposition can possibly exist in Venezuela. Thee good old internal enemy BS: any opposition is betraying the Nation. "Chavez es el pueblo" as we can read in the electoral posters. Have you read Hannah Arendt?

These people would call right-winger, fascist and traitor any man who disapproves the Leader. Even foreigners who were never interested in Venezuela before the revolution and who don't know what ideological groups exist in the Venezuelan political spectrum.
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JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
50. They're all CIA operatives
no one in Venezuela opposes Chavez. Chavez has said repeatedly that everyone loves him and he is perfect, and being perfect (and beloved) we can trust him. He would have mentioned any opposition by this time, surely. So this story is false on it's very face.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #50
55. Chavez reminds me of the Tunisian president
I can't remember the guy's name, but he has managed to install an autocracy, and wins elections by wide margins. If Chavez were to turn on Iran, I'm sure the Americans and Europeans would love him, no matter what.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Ben Ali? nt.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
57. How could the opposition win races if Hugo
is a dictator??
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #57
70. He's not a dictator
Chavez can be considered an autocrat. In today's Venezuela, nothing happens if he's opposed to it, and even when the people vote to replace his party's leaders (as they did in the Caracas Metropolitan Area), Chavez ignores the election results and makes the Congress change the laws to eviscerate politicians from the other side who do win office.

In general, communist governments tend to migrate towards personality worship of a single leader, with rigged elections, or where it's nearly impossible for the opposition to organize itself. They achieve this by controlling the media, by nationalizing industries such that almost all good paying jobs are government jobs - and government employees are forced to vote for the communist party or lose their jobs. Eventually, we see old geezers ruling nations (such as Castro), who are then replacd by their relatives - unless they happen to be shot in an intra-communist party fight.

Thus, even though Chavez today is democratically elected, and is not a dictator, he's evidently an autocrat - if you speak Spanish, you ought to listen to his Hello President show, it shows his behaviour to be increasingly autocratic, almost reaching megalomania. And the talk is definitely communist, marxist style. He has said he couldn't define "socialism of the 21st century", but the way Venezuela is going, it won't be too different from Cuba in 10 years. That country is toast.
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The Green Manalishi Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
64. Bookmarking. (tried to rec but too late)
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 02:47 PM by The Green Manalishi
It's damn hard to find out much that is accurate about the situation. It seems to be worshippers (or, at the least, people who seem convinced that the ends justify the means and that Mr. Chavez is something more than just another politician out for as much personal power as possible; something I tend to believe impossible) on one side (understandable given the misrule and earned distrust of the U.S.) and corporate/CIA disinformation on the other. I for one don't think anyone should have that much power, even if I agreed with them 100% I don't suppoet dictators anywhere, OTOH combatting the power of corporations and the CIA required hardball to a degree that an admittidly sheltered middle class Yankee would not care for.

The fact that bugs me is using corruption investigations to prevent someone running, I wonder what the real truth is.

I would be most grateful for educational links about the situation from Chavez supporters.

Thanks
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. 153 potential candidates have received an inhabilitation for the next elections
and for working in the public administration.

5 days ago by the Contralor General C. Russian.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. You got it right
I did some research, and there's a difference of opinion between the Supreme Court and the Supreme Electoral Court. The Supreme Electoral Court ruled the inhabilitations carried out by the government are illegal, and against the constitution. The Supreme Court ruled otherwise. The Supreme Court is packed with Chavez puppets, therefore it's easy to see why they would go along with the autocrat.

My conclusion? Venezuela can no longer be called a democracy.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #64
71. Hard to tell the truth, isn't it?
You're doing well, because the truth is so hard to tell in this world. Thanks to the internet, we can glimpse ideas an opinions contrary to the "common wisdom" imparted by mass media.

But let me explain, I track economic trends in developing economies to understand their bond values and whether the country's companies's stocks are worth buying. This means i receive a lot of information most people don't get - some of it is quite pricey as it is sold to clients on a confidential basis. This includes econometrics, summaries of government actions, performance of particular investment projects, bid rounds and their results, bond metrics, etc. The information I receive tells me the Venezuelan government can be characterized to be:

1. Inefficient, run by people who don't know what they're doing.
2. Leans towards communism and autocracy
3. Interested in creating a personality worship atmosphere around the current leader, Hugo Chavez.

The market seems to be increasingly aware the Venezuelan government just lacks what it takes, this has been reflected in the lousy bond ratings their issues are receiving. The interest rates they are having to pay rank them way up there with other countries with a lousy reputation, such as Ecuador and Argentina. And they don't seem to understand how to produce oil to offset their lousy performance elsewhere.
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