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discocrisco01 Donating Member (524 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:53 AM
Original message
Measures that Chavez opponents call undemocratic
Source: AP

Measures which Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's opponents claim are meant to stifle political opposition, and which Chavez insists are meant only to uphold the law:

• Chavez has refused to renew the broadcast licenses of dozens of critical radio stations and television's fiercest anti-government channel, RCTV.

• After opposition candidates captured five governorships and Venezuela's two biggest cities in elections, the pro-Chavez National Assembly slashed their budgets.

• Nearly 400 politicians, including many Chavez foes, are barred from running for office because they are under investigation for corruption. In some cases, these probes can go on for years without charges being brought against suspects.

• More than 2,200 people have been indicted on criminal charges, mostly misdemeanors, stemming from their participation in protests over the last four years, according to local human rights groups. Some are prohibited from joining or organizing demonstrations and barred from leaving their hometowns or publicly discussing their cases. Others face possible prison sentences. None has been tried.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091227/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_chavez_amassing_power_2
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parts Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. there's such a thing as too far left
he's a good example.

But, also, he's an incompetent authoritarian.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Spend some of your free time learning about what has happened in Venezuela
during other presidencies, like the two last elected Venezuelan Presidents, and explain why it is you imagine Hugo Chavez has failed the people who elected him.

We don't have time to listen to crap right-wingers gibber after watching Fox News, or reading corporate news, or picking it up from right-wing message boards.

You are attempting to misinform people who have been closely following Latin American events for a long time, here. It just doesn't go over among progressives, who know better.

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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Ring one for common sense
Venezuela's supreme court ruled last week against the Chavez government's practice of banning opponents from elections, using legal probes as an excuse. Interestingly, they did so a few days after the Interamerican Human Rights Commission filed a case against Venezuela for this practice.

My analysis shows the Chavez regime is weakening, its popularity slipping as the economy enters a second year in a row of negative economic growth, and other problems, such as the high crime rate, and poor health care, continue unabated.

However, the hard line Chavistas do seem focused on using intimidation and other tricks to jam the opposition. My guess there are quite a few people within the government, however, who are now scared of the increasingly strident pro-communist line coming from the presidential palace. One interesting outcome: there may be internal strife within the ranks of the "21st century socialists", and this is slowing and confusing government actions even more.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. 153 candidates were banned 5 days ago. nt.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. However, the ban is illegal
I don't have day to day news from Venezuela, but isn't the banning declared illegal by the Venezuelan Supreme Court? Is the government going rogue now, and ignoring its own judges?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. The rightwing and its rich elites also called FDR a "dictator"!
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 11:35 AM by Peace Patriot
Lula da Silva, everybody's favorite Latin American president, said this, of Chavez: "They can invent a lot of things to criticize Chavez but not on democracy!"

I'd say that the president of one of the biggest countries on earth, neighbor to Venezuela, has a lot more objectivity than the rightwing coup-mongers in Venezuela, who routinely scream "election fraud" in one of the best, most transparent election systems in the democratic world, and whose first act, after briefly toppling the elected Chavez government in 2002, was to suspend the Constitution, the courts, the National Assembly and all civil rights.

Another expert on Chavez would be the Venezuelan people as a whole, who consistently give the Chavez government very high marks (in the 55% to 70% range) on policies, on the direction of the country, on the state of Venezuelan democracy and on Chavez himself--in both opinion polls and elections.

The Associated Pukes is a big trumpeter of the views of these far rightwing extremists in Venezuela. Every one of these charges has been debunked time and again. Please get informed, and please stop mindlessly posting their crap here as if it had some credibility.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. FDR... not a dictator but not the hero of justice and rights you usually describe
go to Google and type Japanese Americans second world war. For me, that's largely enough to discard the guy from the "hero" hall of fame.

And don't forget, keep worshiping!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. So, um, Chavez is BETTER than FDR. Thanks. I'll remember that. Chavez has NOT
interred any racial minorities.

In fact, NEVER have racial and other minorities had so much respect and protection of their rights in Venezuela's history, than with the Chavez government. Equality for members of indigenous tribes (and help for recovery of some of their lands), equality for brown-skinned Venezuelans, for African-Venezuelans, and for gays and women, have been high priorities of the Chavez government.

And, let's see, how about we have a hate-fest for Thomas Jefferson, author of the "Declaration of Independence," for owning slaves? That surely must put him off "your list," eh? Interestingly, though, his tragic flaw just highlights the glory of what Simon Bolivar did, some time later, in helping to free numerous slaves throughout Latin America, while liberating Latin America from Spain's colonial rule.

Is Simon Bolivar in your "hero's hall of fame"? He's Chavez's great hero. Maybe you have something in common with Chavez. Wouldn't that be lovely.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. lovely
That's bullshit!

The Declaration of Independence was written by a group of slave owners who started their claim by "ALL men were created EQUAL".
Can you fucking believe that!?

This group of white folks, that no one elected, also decided that their group would be the only one allowed to vote. Pardon me, but that is incredibly and completely full of shit. I'm not saying they were wrong or bad, everything needs to be replaced in its own historical context, I'm just saying that their speech was a major scam in those days. Hypocrisy. It just came as a replacement to the previous scam, which was worse. I don't deny that major achievements have been accomplished, but pretty much the same would go to almost any political leader of that time and, you know what, even nowadays. Hypocrisy. Applied politics are compromise. They don't fit well with ideology or high moral standards. Our political world today still evolves in dark ages. So, sorry if I disappoint you, but I have no "hero" in that dimension.

Not even FDR or Thomas Jefferson (!).
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. The Declaration of Independence was written almost entirely by Thomas Jefferson.
It was NOT written by a committee. Others signed it, at peril of their lives--for their signature made them "terrorists" in the Crown's view--and the committee that the Continental Congress delegated to write it, reviewed it, as did the Congress itself, and made mostly small changes--but Jefferson wrote it. it was NOT "written by a group of slave owners." It was written by ONE slave owner. And those who approved it, and signed it, were absolutely NOT "all slave owners." Most of the northern members of the Revolution were NOT slave owners, and abhorred slavery. Interestingly, so did Jefferson. Jefferson included an anti-slavery provision in the first drafts of the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson's anti-slavery provision was removed from the Declaration of Independence, to his great unhappiness, when the Congress considered it, in order to achieve the unity of non-slave and slave states in the revolt against the powerful British Empire--a war whose outcome was dubious, at best, and that was already well under way, as the Declaration was being written and signed. Jefferson's anti-slavery provision was nixed by his own Virginia brethren and other representatives of slave states. He later wrote against slavery, found it obnoxious, worried about a coming civil war over it, and couldn't free his own slaves because it would have meant their extradition from Virginia. He also, in his writings, exhibited some repugnance at the physical characteristics of African Americans--ironical since he most certainly had a slave wife and slave children. He was also, meanwhile, fighting immensely important battles for free speech, the separation of church and state and other vital principles.

In not understanding this matter, you miss all of the complexities of history and of human beings that make life worth living. Human beings are not perfect. They are sometimes heroic, and sometimes not. They are sometimes brilliant, and sometimes stupid, blind and selfish. And they are only rarely able to rise above the the social/economic constraints of their era to envision a future without those constraints, let alone create that future.

Despite its lack of an anti-slavery provision, the Declaration of Independence laid the foundation for the liberation of slaves, of women, of landless men, of indentured servants, and of oppressed peoples in numerous other lands around the world. It was the prototype of revolutionary action for the liberation of all people. Ho Chi Minh quoted it to President Dwight Eisenhower in seeking American support for Vietnam's revolution (against French colonialists)! It inspired the French Revolution. It inspired Simon Bolivar. It is inspiring people to this day, despite that the U.S. has become an oppressive empire.

Written by a slave owner!

So, even though I abhor slavery, Thomas Jefferson is a hero of mine. And even though I abhor violence, Simon Bolivar, and other brave revolutionaries of the Americas, are heroes of mine. And even though I abhor the anti-Japanese bigotry of the 1940s and the mass detention of Japanese people on the west coast during the war, FDR is a hero of mine--FDR, who came from great wealth and identified with the poor! He is one of those who was able to rise above the social/economic constraints of his era, and took strong and brave action to defend the multitude of victims of the Great Depression, and to create a whole new era--a different future--on labor rights, women's rights, the rights of the elderly, the rights of black citizens and the rights of the poor.

To just negate such advances in human progress, to say that brave and far thinking people were all creeps and oppressors because they had blind spots, because they had tragic flaws, because they made mistakes, because they failed in some respects, is a poverty-stricken view. And you make the same error in your evaluation of Hugo Chavez. Because he is not perfect, he is shit. You dis the Chavez government relentlessly, and seem utterly blind to what that government has accomplished. The Chavez government and the people of Venezuela, in my opinion, are going to hold a place in history comparable to the Declaration of Independence and the American Revolution. They were the first people to turn back a U.S.-supported rightwing military coup in Latin America in the modern era! That action and the subsequent efforts of the Chavez government to "declare independence" from the U.S. empire have inspired many other peaceful, democratic, leftist successes in Latin America. Whatever the flaws or failures of the Chavez government or the Venezuelan people, they have done this--they have bravely risen above the social/economic constraints of their era and tried to create a better future. That is very brave, and that is rather amazing. I have witnessed it from afar, while my own government descended into brutality and lawlessness. I have seen the democracy that Thomas Jefferson and the other early Revolutionaries laid the foundation for, dismembered here. I have seen the second Revolution--FDR's "New Deal" for workers and the poor--undone. Meanwhile, another people--to the south--was picking up the torch of liberation and fairness and social justice, and carrying on. Whatever their mistakes, that is heroic, in my view.

You can't have everything. You can't have perfection. And if you judge living people or historical figures in that way, you will become a cynic and of no use to anyone as a thinker. Cynicism is the most profound drag on human progress, bar none.

How come the great liberationists of the American Revolution couldn't see that women are equal, too, and landless men, and slaves, and all should have a vote? Well, some of them DID see these things, but couldn't convince others, and chose not to cynically walk away and abandon and subvert the Revolution, because they couldn't get others to agree. And they were in the midst of a war against the British Empire.

And, lo and behold, guess who ended slavery first? That same oppressive British Empire, 32 years before the U.S. ended slavery (with Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, in 1965, in the midst of the Civil War). The British!

History is wonderfully complex, ironical and riveting--just as the human creators of it are. The British Royal Navy--so oppressive to its own sailors, and reviled by the American colonists for "pressing" people into service--then went round the world bashing the heads of slave traders, on orders of the King and Parliament! I love history--and its many flawed heroes! And I don't expect perfection in anyone. To be a hero, in my book, is to act on what you are able to see as the right thing to do, despite your imperfections, blindness, inconvenience and danger. Heroism is not perfection. In fact, heroism requires imperfection--fear, doubts, blind spots, hesitations, mistakes, even big mistakes--to be truly heroic.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Overwhelming statement, Peace Patriot. Simply outstanding.
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 04:24 PM by Judi Lynn
Thanks for taking the time and concern to share what you have learned from information which is available to everyone who chooses to know about it.

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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Dead giveaway.
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 06:10 PM by bitchkitty
You guys always accuse someone with a pro-Chavez view as "worshipping" and sneer things like "King Hugo" and "Saint Hugo". Every one of you.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Odd idea, oozing onto a Democratic and progressive forum to attack FDR.
As we all know, there are places where your product would be more appropriate.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. If you think it's a right-wing attitude to condemn concentration camps
which, moreover, were based on racial criteria...
then maybe you shouldn't be filling your mouth so damn often with the words "progressive" and "Democratic".

Take a mirror and go find your path, worshiper.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Ignorant attempt to play games. That's the way our entire country was then. ALL of it.
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 10:34 PM by Judi Lynn
We were less than one hundred years away from slavery.

Progress is determined in moving AWAY from and beyond the bondage of the horrendously poor working class, kept powerless by the scheming, greedy elite who are determined to hoard the wealth they have stolen from them in slave labor, or near slave wages in grueling, dangerous conditions, and heartless abuse, through treachery, deceit, and murderous greed.

I repeat you are seriously in error trying to vilify someone who brought this entire country from a devastating depression.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. The simple truth. It's the reality that "vilifies" a man, his own actions, not me.
What you describe was really great, the concentration camps were really bad. Should I put it in these terms?
The devastating depression was everywhere. Leaders and leading groups reacted differently in different countries. Carried by the most terrible and horrendous dynamics. Apocalyptic. The biggest tragedy in our human history, 70 years ago.

It's not only about the leaders, it's about the group of power they lead and represent.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I've been around too long.
I remember lots of different definitions of democracy.

One entire class of them sets up "ho demos", the people, as a subset of the population. Then whatever is done for the demos or on their behalf, or with their approval, is, by definition, democratic--even if they don't approve, it's because they don't understand where their *real* interests lay, but their leaders do. The demos can be large or small; it can also shift. Stalin could with clear conscience and with no violation of definitions say that he was "deepening democratic thought and tendencies." Because he was doing it for the narod, his version of das Volk, some versions of "the people," even if he did do it vaguely in Greek. After all, narodniki, those ostensibly for and of the narod, weren't good communists so while he was for the narod, the word used involved ho demos. Actually, a lot of American socialists remind me of narodniki; well, not the good bits.

I think of precisely this kind of definitional aberration when I see people saying that politicians, businessmen and bankers, etc., etc. are out after "we the people" and that "we the people" need to "take back our country" (the irritation of the wrongly declined pronoun becomes trivial). It's the good' ol' class warrior spirit, the kind that made Hitler's attempt at getting into the Guiness Book of Records rank at what--only a measly #3 in mass murders for the 20th century? Or is it #4? Far too tribal and atavistic for me. Why?

Because kind of talk precisely sets up a subset of people as "the people" for which everything needs to be done, and defines the others as "not of the people" or even as "not people" in a really exclusionary fashion, the kind that licenses hate and contempt because, well, they aren't *really* people so it's okay. All you need is the label to understand, a hook into the stereotype.

I'm also old enough to remember the vestiges of that kind of speech before it became completely taboo to engage in it in genteel society. Then again, it was also fairly common in the run-up to dear Adolf's failed attempt to be #1. It was also seriously ingrained into me that stereotyping was wrong.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Psychosis is gregarious. nt.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. #1: The government asked radio stations to disclose ownership
in compliance with the law. Those stations were given a grace period. Some of them refused.

That has nothing to do with RCTV which is still on cable.

#2 What you call a "pro-Chavez National Assembly" other people call "being in the majority".

#3 This is really meaningless unless you show that the majority of these people are "Chavez foes", isn't it?

#4 Please provide some documentation for this charge of lack of due process, including the names of the human rights orgs that are making them.

Thanks!
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. If they have elections next year
I don't think the National Assembly will have a pro-Chavez majority if they have elections and oil prices stay as they are. The Venezuelan economy is sick.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. The opposition was so stupid, they boycotted the last elections.
Originally, the Assembly was 100% chavista. Things can only change in favor of the opposition.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. I don't think they'll boycott this time
The Venezuelan opposition is famous for its lack of organization and unity. However, they seem to realize their chances are dwindling as the Chavez regimes becomes more and more autocratic and gains sufficicent levers of power to ensure eternal re-election for the communist strongman.

I suspect the opposition will continue to lack the cohesion and program to win effectively, therefore I'm ready to write off Venezuela, it is a forthcoming basket case economy, which will default its bonds and otherwise perform badly as the country is driven into a Cuba or North Korea style communist dictatorship.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Why do you keep saying this--"the Venezuelan economy is sick"? It flies in the face of the facts.
Venezuela's economy has never been better for most people than it is now, with the Chavez government. And it is doing quite well in view of the Bushwhack Financial 9/11, precisely because the Chavez government did the opposite of what the Wall Street banksters and the U.S. dominated World Bank/IMF, dictated. The Chavez government did NOT incur crippling World Bank debt; it did NOT privatize public services; it did NOT deregulate, and it did NOT permit multinationals to loot the country's resources. The Chavez government renegotiated the oil contracts to give Venezuelans a much better deal vis a vis the multinational corporations that were previously taking virtually all of the oil profits, and they have used the money well--to bootstrap the poor and for local and regional development. There have never been so many people with money in their pockets, with jobs, with educational opportunities and with a voice in government, as there are now in Venezuela. The Chavez government furthermore saved lots of money in international cash reserves ($43 billion), during the fat years, even while fully funding social programs, and thus have flexibility in how to finance the government during Bush's Great Depression. They have projected a budget for 2010 based on the very conservative estimate of $40/barrel for oil (one third of their budget)--oil will likely be higher--with continued full funding of social programs, and 0.05% economic growth. They are coming off of a period of sizzling economic growth--10% growth during the previous five years (2003-2008), with the most growth in the private sector (not including oil!) Sizzling economic growth, and economies that favor the workers, always have inflation problems. And if I had to choose between inflation and depression, I'd choose inflation, because it means that people have money in their pockets and goods and services are moving.

Who has the "sick" economy--in which the middle class is being strangled to death, multi-millions of jobs have been outsourced or eliminated, and nobody even mentions the poor any more? An economy that can't support schools, libraries, emergency services, health care, roads? An economy being drained and looted by war profiteers? An economy with extremely unfair taxation? WE do! Sick and dying--while Venezuela has one of the most vibrant economies and democracies in the western hemisphere.

They will deal with whatever problems they have, because they have a government that attends to the interests of the majority, not the banksters, not the rich, not the corporate, who always have food on the table and all the advantages that money can buy. And we have a government that serves only the interests of the rich and powerful, who don't give a goddamn about anybody else or this country. THAT is "sick"!
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. Chavez' opponents don't give a shit about democracy.
They never did when they ran the place and they don't now either.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. some opponents = the opponents?
Some little, few, half of them?!
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. If the OP can be sloppy about it, I don't see why I can't too. nt
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Sorry gal
The opposition is VERY KEEN on democracy now that they're out of power, and see Chavez' numbers slipping. According to the news reports I get, it's the government working to change the election mechanism and cling to power - even though it realizes its ideas lack popular support. Venezuela is becoming like Iran, where "democratic elections" were rigged and now we see fighting in the streets. I do hope the Venezuelans avoid the violence we see in Iran, it's not worth it. Their best option is to pack and go, and leave the country to the communists. They'll ruin the economy, and eventually, as in other nations such as the Soviet Union, East Germany, Yugoslavia, etc, the regime will fall from its own internal rot.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. LOL. What a pantload. The Dread Pirate Hugo is coming for your soul!
:rofl:
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. It's not funny to see a country's economy be destroyed
I don't think it's funny to see a country's economy be destroyed.

This is even more tragic when one thinks about what could have been if Chavez had been more like Lula.

Don't forget the harsh reality: Venezuela's GDP is due to fall 3 % this year, and forecasted to fall a further 3 % next year - and they keep breeding like gerbils while their oil production goes down.

To top it off, their industry and agriculture are performing worse as time goes by, killed off by a combination of the absurd exchange rate and government misbehaviour.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Breeding like gerbils? Racist much?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. "Some people say" Venezuela should be following the Lebensborn program,
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. only heard that from you so far n/t
s
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Tsk tsk, such labels mark you as a repressive type
Can't hack the truth, Judi? 3rd world nations do overbreed. It's one reason why human civilization is headed towards collapse, unless they stop, there will be too many of us for a sustainable society. Or I suppose we could try living like North Koreans.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. They do breed too much
Has nothing to do with race, has to do with lack of women's education, poverty, lack of contraceptives, too much catholicism.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I long for the old days when Nixon was mobbed by Venezuelan admirers in Caracas, 1958.
They were so blessed to be honored by a visit from one of your spiritual allies, Richard M. Nixon, and they knew it.

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org.nyud.net:8090/us-relations/nixon-caracas2.jpg

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org.nyud.net:8090/us-relations/nixon-caracas.jpg
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Sorry, but the smear won't stick.
I happen to dislike US politicans in general, although I'm willing to give Obama a little bit of credit for now, even if I don't like his foreign policy.

I do want to know, what do you think is going to happen in Venezuela as GDP continues to fall and the other problems they face continue unabated?
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