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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-06-10 08:50 AM
Original message
Colombian rebels say they killed governor
remember our chavista members just a couple of weeks ago, nooooo it couldn't have been the FARC.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100106/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_colombia_farc_governor

BOGOTA – Colombia's leftist guerrillas said Tuesday they killed a kidnapped governor last month because of a government order to rescue rebel-held hostages.

The body of Caqueta Gov. Luis Francisco Cuellar, who was abducted on Dec. 21, was found with the throat slashed near the state capital of Florencia the following day. President Alvaro Uribe blamed Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, guerrillas for his death.

In a statement posted on the web site of the news agency ANNCOL, which regularly carries FARC communications, the rebels acknowledged killing Cuellar but said they had planned to try him for alleged corruption and ties to right-wing paramilitaries, not execute him or hold him for ransom.

The statement, dated Dec. 24 and signed by the FARC's Southern Bloc, said his death was "an undesired and tragic consequence of the order given by Alvaro Uribe to the armed forces to rescue with fire and blood" the rebel-held hostages.

Uribe, a staunch U.S. ally, had ordered an army operation to free the 69-year-old governor as well as about 20 soldiers and police held by the rebels.

Calls to relatives of Cuellar and officials were not immediately returned.

Colombia's military had speculated that Cuellar's captors killed him because security forces were in pursuit, but state officials said there was no sign of combat in the area.

Cuellar had previously been kidnapped four times since 1987, each time for about two to seven months and in each instance an undisclosed ransom was paid.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. If you mean me, I'm a Democrat not a 'chavista' and I didn't say, "nooooo it couldn't have been the
FARC." I said it didn't make sense. The FARC don't generally kill hostages. They hold them--sometimes for years. And since this governor was under investigation by prosecutors for his ties to rightwing death squads, it seemed more likely to be a death squad hit, to foreclose his confessing and naming others--or possibly just a drug hit. He lived in a heavily fortified compound, which the kidnappers apparently easily breached, and the kidnappers were wearing Colombian military fatigues--a big stolen stash of which was said to be hidden in his compound. It looked like an "inside job." The details that were available didn't point to a FARC operation, and Uribe jumping in with that accusation, with no apparent evidence for it, made me even more suspicious.

I had well-thought out reasons for questioning FARC's guilt in this murder. And, as it turns out--if this Associated Pukes article is reliable--Uribe and the Colombian military indirectly caused his death by their typically trigger-happy, "bring 'em in dead or alive," "fire and blood" launching of a military campaign. That's NOT how you rescue hostages--by putting their lives in danger. And you gotta wonder why they did this. Were they trying to get him killed?

The FARC's original intention is interesting. The official investigation of this governor for death squad activity had begun a year ago, but hadn't gotten anywhere (or hadn't gotten very far). The FARC wanted to try him on similar charges. Did Uribe & co. interfere with the official investigation? Is that why it was stalled? And would such a trial, by the FARC, have resulted in the naming of names that I at first thought might be the motive for his murder?

Frankly, I still don't see the logic in the FARC killing him, when there doesn't seem to have been any kind of fight. They don't seem to have been "on the run." It apparently wasn't a panicked, firefight situation. It meant a total loss of any advantage this hostage gave them--for a prisoner exchange, for ransom, for the trial they wanted to conduct--and a loss of all the effort they had put into it. A couple of possibilities occur to me: That the FARC is falsely claiming the murder (as a fear tactic? for bragging rights?), or someone is falsely claiming it for them. Since the "miracle laptop" caper and the bombing/raid on Ecuador, we know that the Colombian military is getting high tech help from the U.S. Possibly they have gotten onto the protocols by which ANNCOL news agency and the FARC communicate and have planted a false announcement. (Or maybe it's not a protected communication, and a false announcement can easily be planted).

I do not trust AP to verify anything--especially if the information is pro-government and anti-FARC. It could be true. It could be false. The FARC guerrilla army does kill people. But this explanation is not terribly plausible. And they do not tend to be the wanton killers that the Colombian military and its closely tied rightwing death squads are. (The great bulk of extrajudicial murders in Colombia are not FARC--they are Colombian military (about half) and their death squads (the other half).) This announcement is evidence that the FARC did it. It is not conclusive, in my opinion. If I were on a jury, I would require a lot more than an announcement on a web site. And, from what I gather from the news reports, there is no other evidence--no witnesses, no physical evidence, no theory of the crime that points to the FARC as opposed to an inside job or other kind of hit. The evidence still points away from the FARC, except for this announcement.
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gbscar Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. If I may be forgiven for contradicting you, Peace Patriot...
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 04:21 PM by gbscar
...let me jump in to point out a few things that go against your deductions or assumptions.

The main one would be that what you think is in FARC's best interest might, in all honesty, not coincide with their own opinion. Why? I'll get into that, sooner or later, but let me backtrack for a it.

The late governor was kidnapped four separate times by FARC during his life. Leaving aside your inability to afford him even the formal benefit of being considered innocent until proven guilty, it would not be surprising if his unfriendly experiences with the guerrillas had a role in leading to his supposed paramilitary involvement. I've noticed you've been quick to argue in favor of the opposite in other cases (government and paramilitary violence leading to guerrilla involvement) so, theoretically speaking, there's at least a fair chance this wouldn't be any different. The same logic, just going the other way around.

While it may not necessarily be their most common reaction or their original objective, FARC has in fact killed people who they've kidnapped, even without the convenient excuse of being under external military pressure (such a grossly criminal and brutal act, really, to try and rescue someone just hours after their kidnapping...no other government in the world would do so), particularly if these happen to be civilians they consider to be paramilitaries or their suspected collaborators. Not always on the spot, mind you, it can also occur after these individuals have been found guilty in a "popular trial" where their guilt has been taken for granted from the beginning. Once again, it sounds to me like that logic isn't exactly too far removed from what FARC's enemies have been known to do, or is it?

What, you want a source for that? I'll gladly provide. To save some time, you can scroll down to the section on FARC available through the following link, for a number of past examples that would take up too much space to list here.

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,HRW,,COL,,3ae6a7e30,0.html#P1377_325495

You might automatically dismiss some of the references, I assume, but others should be well documented even by your standards (including, for instance, local and international human rights NGOs that are not known to be pro-government in any way, shape or form).

But I believe I've done myself a slight disservice by not mentioning something very important, which is what FARC themselves have said about the matter of the late governor and why they felt the need to detain this foul criminal and punish him under the banner of popular justice. Let's look at the communique released by ANNCOL, which has not been rejected or considered apocryphal to date.

Al gobernador del Caqueta le iban a hacer juicio político por corrupto

El Bloque Sur de las FARC-EP informa a la opinión nacional e internacional:

1.- Que a pesar de los evidentes vínculos del gobernador del Caquetá Luis Francisco Cuellar con el paramilitarismo, el objetivo de la retención no era ajusticiarlo, ni hacerle exigencias económicas, sino realizarle un juicio político por corrupto, al haber convertido el dolo y el prevaricato en piedra angular de su Administración, hasta tal punto, que a cada uno de los empleados le descontaba $ 100.000 pesos del sueldo, como condición para preservar el puesto"


The rest of the communique is also available at:

http://anncol.eu

Quick translation:

The Caquetá governor was going to be put on political trial for corruption

From FARC's Southern Block to national and international public opinion:

1.-Despite the evident links of the Caquetá governor Luis Francisco Cuellar with paramilitaries, the objective of his detention wasn't to kill him, nor to make economic demands, but to put him on political trial because of his corruption, after having made malice and the breach of duty a fundamental part of his administration, to such a degree that he took 100.000 pesos from each of his employees in order to let them keep their jobs.


In other words, at least on the surface the purpose of his kidnapping wasn't to try him for paramilitarism, not at all, but merely to do so for alleged corruption and employee abuse. But even though they didn't want to kill him outright, considering their wording and the explicit assumption of the governor's guilt it wouldn't be surprising if they nevertheless executed him after the fact, considering past precedent and the incredibly "fair" conditions of such trials (please refer to the above link), but it's also entirely possible that the guy might have just gotten a "slap in the wrist" for the time being. Who knows? I'd say chances would be 50/50.

Either way, I would say this brings down at least a significant part of your house of cards, provided that you don't need to see a video of Iván Márquez or whoever else reading this communique in order to confirm its authenticity. You'd think, however, that if this were a false communique FARC would jump all over the place and try to present the "real" position of the organization within days. It's not like their hands are tied or there's a sudden lack of outlets they could use. Assuming nothing to the contrary is ever said, just as it hasn't to date, it is entirely reasonable to give this communique just as much worth as any other.

In any event, the conclusion would be that regardless of their original intentions the guy was killed by FARC because, heaven forbid, they must not allow any of their victims to be rescued if they can help it. Better to kill the enemies of the proletariat if they cannot be successfully imprisoned than to abort an operation and let someone live another day, I guess.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. seems the FARC "trial" of the governor was quite speedy n/t
s
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I am getting ready to travel "south" but briefly it appears to be an increasing tactic
used by the FARC. they threatened another governor today for "supporting Uribe". no, PP the FARC does doesn't make much sense.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. All this killing in Colombia just has to stop! nt
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