Tens of Thousands of Students Rally in Support of Chavez in Venezuela

[Joanne98]

Caracas, February 14, 2010 (venezuelanalysis.com) – Tens of thousands of students rallied in the Venezuelan capital, Caracas in a show of support for President Hugo Chavez and the Bolivarian revolution and to celebrate the “Day of Youth” on Friday.

The demonstration occurred just weeks after violent protests by hundreds of right-wing opposition students in support of private television channel RCTV made international headlines.

Robert Serra an activist from the youth wing of Chavez’s United Socialist Party of Venezuela (J-PSUV) said the rally was “a clear demonstration of where the majority of the youth and student sectors of the country stand.”

Dani Vallés a student councilor from the University of the East said “we are on the side of the people and we’re not going to let the oligarchy destabilise Venezuela.”

From the early hours of the morning thousands of students and young workers gathered at the National Experimental University of the Armed Forces (UNEFA) and marched through the opposition controlled wealthy eastern suburbs of Caracas to the Bolivarian University, where they were met by thousands more students and activists.

To the sounds of music and chants of “Chavez is here to stay” and “Expropriation, confiscation, the means of production for the people”, students danced and marched along the 10 km route arriving around 5pm at the Miraflores Presidential Palace, where Chavez addressed the crowd.

Continued>>>
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/5138

The media must have missed this.

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

1. They're not students unless they're anti-Chavez.

Get with the program!

[Judi Lynn]

31. Looks as if the privately owned news sources ignored it.

I found only this tiny mention in Tal Cual, a slimy opposition paper, and haven't run across any others, yet.

This is the google translation:< blockquote>Progress |The Nation|12/02/2010 04:23:13 AM
Youth Day red-rojita

Government supporters marched to Miraflores students to meet with President Chavez and conclude on February 12

http://www.talcualdigital.com.nyud.net:8090/imagesbank/avances/122201006962.jpg

Students marched from the university-government of the Armed Forces Experimental to the Miraflores palace to meet President Hugo Chávez and celebrate Youth Day.

Several young people from other states came to Caracas to participate in the mobilization that swept Rio de Janeiro Avenida de Las Mercedes, the main Monte Bello and went through the Bolivarian University to meet with Chavez, who will give a speech.

Psuvista leader, Robert Serra, said the opposition students did not go because "they have nothing to celebrate the 12 February". "There were mobilized because they only come out to defend agendas, such as Marcel Granier or the U.S. empire, it does not really belong to them, why not celebrate a glorious day like this," he said.

http://www.talcualdigital.com/Avances/Viewer.aspx?id=31698&secid=28#

[Peace Patriot]

2. The media only like it when USAID-funded rightwing thugs cause trouble.

They have never given a fuck what most people want, here or there. At least a million people marched against the Iraq War here, and nearly 60% of Americans overall opposed that heinous war (Feb '03, all polls). What did the war profiteers and their media horns care? Nothing! They knew they had 2004 wrapped up for more war--despite there being no WMDs in Iraq, and despite revelations of massive torture of randomly rounded up prisoners in Iraq--because, simultaneous with those marches and that huge anti-war opposition, and largely unknown to most Americas--due to yet more corpo-fascist 'news' monopoly malfeasance--the Anthrax Congress had fast-tracked 'TRADE SECRET' e-voting machines all over the country, with the code owned and controlled by a handful of rightwing corporations, and with virtually no audit-recount controls--an anti-democratic condition that persists to this day, and has still not been exposed by the corpo-fascist media.

Thus, it is no surprise that the corpo-fascist media has ignored the Chavez government's near 60% approval ratings, and average 60% election wins, in transparent, internationally monitored elections, for the last ten years, and instead persisted in their illusionary/delusionary narrative that "Chavez is a dictator," switched recently--and weirdly--to "Chavez is incompetent" (maybe cuz "Chavez is a dictator" wasn't holding up, so they needed another "Big Lie" to replace that one, even if it is contradictory?), and continue to play up and feature the minority rightwing, coup-supporting opposition and utterly ignore both the Chavez government's numerous achievements--in education, health care, poverty reduction, economic growth, oil industry management and local and regional development--and their continuing support by the great majority of Venezuelans.

Tens of thousands of Venezuelan students enthusiastically and peacefully march in support of the Chavez government, and they fall into the black hole where the U.S. opposition to the Iraq War fell: the black hole where the real news should be, in the corpo-fascist press.

[Goldstein1984]

3. Just like they missed the atrocities committed and being committed

by the backers of the military coup in Honduras.

Populist and socialist movements in Latin America don't fit the capitalist narrative--bad for imperialism. And worse, it's just too complicated for the masses who prefer their news in small, simple, easily digested bites scattered among updates about Paris Hilton and Balloon Boy.

[bvar22]

4. Kick for DEMOCRACY.

The Populist Reforms sweeping across Latin America give me HOPE for The World!
You CAN say "NO!" to American Corporatism!

VIVA Democracy!
Of The People, By The People, For The People!
We could use some of THAT here.

[protocol rv]

5. I missed it too

I'm in Caracas, and I missed it too. The slogan "Expropriation, confiscation, the means of production for the people" sure is going to scare people around here. Do you think anybody is going to invest when they see students controlled by the government chanting that way?

[EFerrari]

6. LOL. I hope it's scaring the crap out of the Carmonas.

:)

[Judi Lynn]

7. Those goals will not be disappearing, even when Hugo Chavez is no longer the President.

He was able to win promising to assist them with these goals, and the goals will remain until they are satisfied, on behalf of the majority of Venezuela's people.

Did you imagine they will accept returning to worse conditions? That's not going to happen. Your peer group's control of the country will not be reinstated, no matter how you stamp your round little feet, and pout.

http://www.loccidentale.it.nyud.net:8090/files/imagecache/big/files/Goicoechea.jpg http://graphics8.nytimes.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2007/11/10/world/10venez.600.jpg

http://www.radiomundial.com.ve.nyud.net:8090/yvke/files/img_noticia/t_yongo_196.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com.nyud.net:8090/_XMu0QLViYYY/SczWG1lKrzI/AAAAAAAAPyQ/SUjqwNA2h5c/s320/10_Yon+Goicoechea.jpg

[protocol rv]

8. Maybe you should read what he said when he ran 10 years ago?

What's the round little feet anyway? Some kind of American insult? And please read what Chavez said when he ran 10 years ago. Nobody elected him to turn this into the marxist garbage pile they're building.

[Flatulo]

9. Funny how the slogans never change... the same Marxist crap over and over

and over.

No matter how many times it utterly fails as a political and economic system, looters will continue to chant that the property of the productive class belongs to them, and they will attempt to steal it by any means.

And when it fails here, the damned Yanquis will be blamed once again for foiling yet another collectivist dream.

The real problem is that theft is theft, and will always be theft, for all eternity, and no amount of chanting and sloganeering and spin will ever make theft anything else but theft.

And the people who know how to build the factories and run them will go away and leave the looters with their stolen property, which will then run down and fail to work, because looters are just, well, looters.

[bemildred]

10. Ayn Rand?

Sure sounds like Ayn Rand.

[Flatulo]

11. History.

[Flatulo]

12. I have read Ayn Rand, and I've also read Marx. They're both wrong.

As in most things, the answer lies somewhere between the two extremes.

The happiest people in the world are the Danes. They have a thriving capitalist economy coupled with high taxes and a strong social safety net. There is among the least income disparity in the world. They are the leaders in alternative energy.

Here's a report on how they have pulled this off...

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=4086092&page=1

I just look around and see what works. Outright theft of capital doesn't work. What is needed is access to education so that everyone can play. I know that Chavez has done wonders for education in Venezuela, but this populist nonsense of stealing everything and handing it out to people who had no hand in creating it is just dumb.

[bemildred]

13. It just sounded like Ayn Rand.

If you've read Ayn Rand, you ought to be able to see what I mean.

[Flatulo]

14. I read them both 35 years ago in college. Some of her terminology

is dead on (looters) and may have stuck with me, although her overall philosophy is pretty Darwinian. 'Every man for himself' seems to have gotten us to where we are today, with a global economic meltdown and the destruction of the middle class, and an unhealthy concentration of wealth in the hands of too few people.

In Rand's world, there are only two people - the heroic producer, and those who would steal from him. Of course reality is a little bit more complex than that.

I think many people took her for a philosopher, when in fact I see her as more of a romantic novelist.

[bemildred]

16. I see you do see.

Thank you for that. I would agree that romantic novelist is better than philosopher.

[Flatulo]

21. Thanks, although she certainly did not discourage her followers from

elevating her to the status of a visionary.

From what I know of her, she was quite a contradiction in terms. A very flawed person, like the rest of us.

[bemildred]

35. Yes. Humility is a very necessary thing.

The world plays tricks on us all.

[RZM]

40. Here's a recent article

that addresses this very question:

http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/Ayn-Rand--engineer-of-souls-4385

[bemildred]

41. Very good.

I won't comment on the many points made, they speak well enough for themselves, I just want to note that I think it is diagnostic of immature intelligences to see reality as essentially simple; really smart people see things in much more complicated ways than half-smart people who discover logic or "reason" and make a religion out of it.

[protocol rv]

15. Animal Farm

Since we're discussing literature: the slogan those students reportedly chanted "nationalization, expopriation, the means of production for the people" reminded me of the chants the animals were taught in Animal Farm by George Orwell.

I've already been insulted here for expressing my opinion about the Venezuelan government's current behavior, and I don't want to risk more insults. But we are very concerned by the government's haphazard, and erratic behavior. It has reached a point where one starts worrying not about this or that political belief. Rather, one begins to wonder if the country can survive at all, or will fall beyond the point of recovery, becoming a collapsed society such as Haiti or what we saw in the "Mad Max" films.

[EFerrari]

18. AF was a critique of Stalin, not socialism. Orwell was himself a socialist

a fact that has already been pointed out to you.

[bemildred]

19. Well, I was discussing Ayn Rand, not literature.

You comments are interesting and I don't have time to do them justice now. I'll see what I can put together in a day or so when I get back.

[bemildred]

50. OK, Animal Farm and The Headless Monster

First off, as Ms Ferrari points out, Orwell was a life-long socialist, and Animal Farm is about the evils of Stalinism, not a critique of Communism. Orwell's political sympathies seem to have lain in the direction of the anarchists of the Spanish Civil War more than any other place, he believed in government from the bottom up, and hated totaliarianism regardless of any fancy justifications proposed about the end of history or pie in the sky by and by. He considered Stalinism and Franco-ism and Nazi-ism to be fundamentally the same, and most definitely not socialist of communist or Marxist or anarchist. He would have said that the means are the end, so if you want to achieve a moral end you had better stick to moral and ethical means from the beginning and never make exceptions to that.

Now, fear of The Mob is well founded, anyone who chooses to ride The Mob to political power had best remember that The Mob can turn on him in a moment. The French Revolution is the classic example. On the other hand, democratic rule, democratic politics, is founded on the idea that a democratic electorate is capable of making its own decisions, and making them as well as or better than tin-pot dictators or other wannabe authoritarian leaders. So if you believe in democracy, you have to believe that the electorate is not a mob, that people in large groups can behave well and make sound decisions. Since tin-pot dictators frequently don't behave well at all, one does not have to require that the rule of the people be perfect, merely better than most of the autocrats that History teaches us all about.

With regard to Mr Chavez, I think it is perfectly reasonable to be concerned, but I don't think the facts really support the notion that he is a tin-pot dictator. He does seems very ambitious, more in the sense of making a big historical name for himself than in the sense of accumulating money and totalitarian power. When he decides that he no longer needs to submit himself to the process of re-election or begins accumulating a large retirement fund in overseas banks, I will become more willing to admit there is some cause for concern. One has to remember that politics is a dirty business, maybe the dirtiest business there is, a blood sport, so the essense of morality in politics is not being Mary Poppins, but rather knowing where to draw the line, not taking political and military short-cuts for expediency's sake, and Mr Chavez appears to have been scrupulous about respect for constitutional order, so far.

I think his enemies would serve themselves better with a round or two of self-criticism. He has kicked their asses repeatedly, something over ten years now, and his enemies have not really laid a glove on him except in the referendum on constitutional amendments a couple years back, the one time when he really over-reached himself. This despite the fact that Uncle Sugar hates his guts and would do almost anything to get rid of him. You ought to admit that underneath the public joker and populist leader is a very smart and well-educated man who knows quite well what he is doing, and who will not be out-witted by crude political machinations. Comparing Chavez to Mad Max may be a good propaganda point, but it has not proved a sound basis for political strategy against him.

It is like the situation with Mr Castro in Cuba: the thing to notice about Mr Castro is that he is still there 50 years on. That is no accident, and one is better served to consider how that came about, rather than pretending it is all some sort of fluke or the result of totalitarian rule or any of a dozen other dissembling excuses that are advanced here all the time. It is entirely possible that had the USA normalized relations with Cuba long ago, then Cuba would have long ago moved on from the Castro government towards some successor government of its own choosing. In other words, it seems to me that one reason Castro is still there is that the USA continues to insist on being hostile to Cuba as an independent sovereign state.

The situation in Iran bears comparison too, the Mullahs rely very much on the hostility of "the West" to keep themselves in power, and one can observe them stoking that fire regularly, whenever we show signs of coming to our senses and admitting that who runs Iran is the business of the Iranian people and nobody else.

[EFerrari]

17. What is all this stealing you're talkng about?

You mean, like stealing Venezuela's oil from Exxon or what?

[Flatulo]

20. Who created the technology and equipment to extract the oil from the earth?

I doubt that it was the indigenous folks down there.

Yes, it is their oil, in the same sense that we (Americans) own Lake Michigan. By a turn of geographical events, certain people reside on top of certain resources. But it requires massive investments of capital equipment to extract those resources.

Who do you believe is the rightful owner of the equipment?

[EFerrari]

22. Omfg. No, Venezuela nor Ecuador nor anyone has to hand over their resources

to vultures.

And no one has stolen anything from the vultures you are defending.

[Flatulo]

23. From the OP...

“Expropriation, confiscation, the means of production for the people”

What does this mean to you?

[EFerrari]

25. That was a street chant. It has not been the policy of the Venezuelan government

to STEAL anything.

[Flatulo]

26. I am not familiar with what has or has not been nationalized.

In cases where nationalization has occurred, has compensation that was agreeable to the original owner been paid?

If compensation that was agreeable to both parties has been paid, then no theft can have occurred.

[Judi Lynn]

27. It's your responsibility to know about the subject you're determined to condemn.

Where have you been all these years, following the history line of US/Venezuelan affairs? If you have such an intense feeling about nationalization, why aren't you aware Venezuela nationalized both oil and steel in the 1970's, so long before Hugo Chavez was inaugurated in February, 1999?

Where have you been when DU'ers have posted article after article on the arrangements made on appropriation of businesses, the terms of sale, and even comments from the spokemen of the the companies in the deals?

There's no excuse for sounding off like a factory whistle, filling the ethers with the smog of confusion here.

http://dev.physicslab.org.nyud.net:8090/img/a89b93e6-41b8-46ee-87c2-0ce9070ec648.gif
Know what you're discussing FIRST, as a necessary, natural, expected starting point, before you start bellowing about it, or at least have the humility to moderate your comments until you have a clue.

[Flatulo]

28. If you read my post, I was condemning the chanting of the students as being

Marxist tripe.

I don't believe I have criticized Chavez in this thread. Do you?

[EFerrari]

29. Right. So calling out the Venezuelan government for theft

without facts in hand is uncalled for.

[Flatulo]

30. I was calling out the students for spouting Marxist BS.

They certainly seem to be enthusiastically encouraging theft, wouldn't you agree?

[EFerrari]

32. In that case, you called these protesters "looters" without cause.

No, I don't agree in the least.

[Flatulo]

33. How would you characterize their call for "confiscation"?

Confiscation is taking something that is not yours without compensating the owner.

Don't these people have parents? I wonder what they teach them...?

[protocol rv]

36. They're given the slogans to shout

it's not a big deal. I was in Caracas, and the demonstration was a non event. In Caracas one can tell when a demonstration has large numbers because they create traffic jams. And this demonstration didn't cause any. My guess is the numbers were inflated, or the city was empty for Carnival. These demonstrations are a pain, because the city already has a huge traffic problem, the traffic infrastructure hasn't received any investment in the last 10 years, and demonstrations (by either side) don't help at all.

[Wilms]

37. Demonstrations are a pain because Chavez didn't fill the potholes?

You always seem sooooo inconvenienced by democracy.

Here...

[protocol rv]

38. Demonstrations are a pain

Because they create traffic jams, and it already takes too long to move around. Also, don't confuse demonstrations with democracy. Democracy is one thing, demonstrations are something else. Look at the massacre in Tien An Men square in Beijing, what the Soviets did to demonstrators in Hungary in 1956, Kent State Massacre, and so on. Kent State is an example I would like to highlight...the US population was oppposed to the Viet Nam war, the government reacted violently agaisnt demonstrators, and in the end US imperialism lost anyway.

In my view, demonstrations organized by the opposition to cause an overthrow, and those organized by the state to counter opposition demonstrations are a sign of a broken down democratic system, inmature politicians, an unresponsive government, and likely a government doing things the people don't like.

I should say, it behooves you to try to be more polite. I notice many of you pro-"socialism of 21 century" supporters are increasingly strident and use insults and so on....why not try to discuss the subject, rather than insulting people when they don't agree with you?

[EFerrari]

39. You have it exactly backward. Democracy is messy.

It causes traffic jams. It messes up the official order of things.

[Wilms]

42. You have concerns about the tenor of discussion here.

Actually, the responses from the anti-US meddling in LA posters have been rather tame.

Meanwhile, your displeasure with the protest begs, perhaps, a little patients.

[ChangoLoa]

43. I haven't seen one pro-US meddling poster in this forum, you're being too self-righteous, Wilms

That's idiotic and manipulative. As calling any non chavista Venezuelan "oligarch", eh?

Pretty ridiculous for an anglo-saxon who's never been in the country.

[Flatulo]

44. I guess that's one of the things that annoys me - to some posters there

can be no principled opposition to Chavez. Any opposition must be from the meddling Yanqui elitist interlopers who arrange astroturf demonstrations.

The dissonance is so obvious to me that it literally leaps out at me.

[Wilms]

46. Do you care to review more closely the contents of this forum?

I think you'll find many examples of non-principled and disruptive interjections from those who take issue with the democratic process.

[Flatulo]

47. Ah, but there's the rub...

The perception of some posters here (myself included) is that Chavez is rigging the game to cement his rule and create a Marxist state in LA.

The regular and predictable interventions from the Chavez Cheerleading Squad has done little to nothing to dissuade me of this notion.

I understand that this perception is created in large part by a Western media that is regularly decried here as Corporo-Fascist and worse, but I see a great deal of bias in the pro-Chavez reporting as well.

My overall impression is that Venezuela is headed for very dark days.

[Wilms]

48. That's ok.

What ever Chavez does serving at the pleasure of the people seems reasonable to me. Meanwhile, nothing the "Chavez Cheerleading Squad" says do I feel swayed by. If anything, the lame criticism lobbed at Chavez (and the "Chavez Cheerleading Squad") is what biases me.

But US meddling, military dictatorship, and unrestrained capitalism mixes a brew easy to be wary of.

[Flatulo]

49. Oh, I agree 100%. I don't doubt that the Venezuelan democracy is legitimate,

but I have to wonder if folks there have sold their future freedoms for a free education and straight teeth.

US meddling is absolutely unjustified, no matter where it occurs. People have the inherent right to choose their own destiny.

[Wilms]

45. Particularly from you, the hurmph is most amusing. n/t

[protocol rv]

51. He's typical

They seem to have such a copy cat line.

I wonder, what do they think about US abuses in the Middle East, and the way the USA allows itself and its army to be used as imperialist weapons to serve the Israelis? I even wonder if the people who run the DU will allow me to post if I really start criticizing the USA, they have their own masters who feed them. The American-run Common Dreams website kicked me out because I was "anti semitic" when I criticized US policy in the Middle East. I just happen to be pro-Palestinian, but in the USA there's heavy censorship regarding Israel vs Palestine.

So it's better to be careful when posting in a US run site. You can criticize the USA, but be careful how you do it, they can only be exposed to certain types of "anti US" talk.

[Wilms]

52. I love US abuses in the ME!

:eyes:

[Flatulo]

24. You are responding a question that I did not ask, which is fine, but I asked who you

thought owned the equipment that was used to extract the oil from the earth.

[protocol rv]

34. First oil well drillers were the Burmese, about 400 years ago

I'm not sure you understand very much about the international oil industry, nor about Venezuela. Do you want to be educated? Ask away.