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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:52 AM
Original message
Disappearing the Truth in Honduras
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Please read this important document. eom
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protocol rv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. We could use national reconciliation in Venezuela
but the government is more focused on increasing the animosity level, I was quite shocked when I heard the Oil Minister, Rafael Ramirez, shout on national tv "we hate the middle class". So much for reconciliation. And then the dummies wonder why things are falling apart, anybody with brains who can get a visa to go elsewhere is leaving.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. How about a link to go along with the post.
You're pretty prolific in the commentary department, P-RV.

Racking up posts spamming the board with your brat editorial, are ya?

:hi:
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protocol rv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. How about a link?
I heard it myself. I watch Venezuelan TV. I guess you could link to my comment, I'm a primary source for the information. :-)

However, let me see if I can find something.
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protocol rv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Found the link - the speech in Spanish
Edited on Sun Apr-11-10 12:19 AM by protocol rv
This the "hate" speech given by Rafael Ramirez. I don't know if you speak Spanish or not, but their code word for upper middle class is "oligarquia". They also like to refer to opponents as "escualidos" (the squalid ones). Also not the personality worship aspects of this speech - there's an increasingly shrill tone in comments they make about Chavez being the supreme leader, the commander, the need to be absolutely loyal to the president, and so on. I suspect some of it is due to the way some ministers and the Falcon governor defected from the party.

Some political experts have pointed out the Venezuelan government has quite a few neo-fascist traits, such as hostile remarks towards other nations and their leaders, discussion of hate against a portion of the population (shouting we hate such a such portion of the population in a political speech on national TV isn't very kosher), use of the slogan "Fatherland, Socialism or Death", and continuous reminders about the need to be loyal to the president. This is really bothering many of us, but there's very little we can do about it, other than put our heads down and wait for the elections in September. If we get that far, however, I suspect they'll be rigged.

Whoops, forgot the link

http://www.venetubo.com/detailed_display/Rafael-Ram%EDrez-y-su-mensaje-de-ODIO-R8499.html
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Well I could use a translation.
Edited on Sun Apr-11-10 08:46 AM by Wilms
So "oligarquia", means middle class?

Wiki had a different idea of the word:
Oligarchy (the Greek ολιγαρχία of oligoi few, and arche, government) literally means rule of the few. No entanto, como aristocracia significa, também, governo de poucos - porém, os melhores -, tem-se, por oligarquia, o governo de poucos em benefício próprio, com amparo na riqueza pecuniária. However, as the aristocracy also means rule of the few - but the best - has, for oligarchy, the rule of the few for themselves, with support in monetary wealth.

As oligarquias são grupos sociais formados por aqueles que detêm o domínio da cultura, da política e da economia de um país, e que exercem esse domínio no atendimento de seus próprios interesses e em detrimento das necessidades das massas populares; num país pós-colonial, como o Brasil , os interesses oligárquicos estão diretamente relacionados aos interesses do imperialismo (o domínio de um país para o atendimento das necessidades – também oligárquicas – de um outro país, este dominante); o imperialismo, por sua vez, participa diretamente da sustentação daqueles grupos sociais oligárquicos no domínio do 'seu' país: os oligarcas de um país dominado são, portanto, 'subdominantes'. The oligarchs are social groups formed by those in the field of culture, politics and the economy of a country and that this field exercise in the care of their own interests at the expense of the needs of the masses, in a post-colonial country, like Brazil , oligarchic interests are directly related to the interests of imperialism (the domain of a country to meet the needs - also oligarchic - from another country, this dominant); imperialism, in turn, are directly involved in support of those oligarchic social groups in the area of 'his' country: the oligarchs in a country dominated are therefore 'subdominant'.

Oligarquias são grupos fechados e pequenos que detêm o controle do poder, geralmente formadas por familiares de grandes proprietários. Oligarchies are small and closed groups that have control of power, generally formed by families of large landholders.


What do you make of that, P?

:hi:

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. What does this article on Honduras have to do with Venezuela? n/t
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protocol rv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I think they are similar
Judy, I've been reading about the Honduras case, and I do believe the people there do suffer from significant human rights abuses. I would classify it as similar to what happened in Chile under Pinochet, or in Argentina under the military junta. But we are also seeing human rights abuses in Venezuela. My point is that I see almost mirror images. I know you're somewhat partial and are probably going to start screaming at me, but I would lump the two together. Not as bad as Myanmar, Iraq, or North Korea, but definitely not in the same class as Chile or Costa Rica.

By the way, when I say Iraq, I mean Iraq under Saddam Hussein and under the US occupation - both regimes guilty of horrific human rights abuses.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. The vicious pigs in Honduras are soul mates with the oligarchs in Venezuela.
The former rulers of Venezuela have a HIDEOUS history of filthy racism, classism, vulgar greed, exploitation, barbaric violence behind them, just like the garbage running Honduras.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. It is very important to keep the truth visible...
I applaud NarcoNews for not giving up on the truth, despite the 100% lying and disinformation that fills the corpo-fascist press about Honduras.

The key points of lying and disinformation, promulgated by the U.S. State Department and the corpo-fascist media, are these (some of which are covered in this article):

1. It was the WIDELY SUPPORTED POPULAR MOVEMENT--consisting of labor union leaders, workers, community activists of every kind, human rights workers, advocates of the poor majority, small business people, teachers, students, writers, artists, religious clergy and others who proposed a national referendum on forming a constituent assembly to re-write the Honduran Constitution--a Constitution written by Reagan's henchmen, which Oscar Arias, president of Costa Rica, has called "the worst Constitution in the world."

2. President Zelaya backed this proposal for a national opinion poll (no force of law, just "Do you/don't you" support this idea?).

3. President Zelaya NEVER IN ANY WAY PROPOSED LIFTING HIS TERM LIMIT. The goddamned lie that he did was repeated OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN by the corpo-fascist press. All they had to do was READ THE RESOLUTION that he proposed, on behalf of this widespread movement. They either didn't read it, and instead copied and pasted their news article content from Lanny Davis' emails (Clinton P.R. firm paid by our tax dollars, routed through Honduras, to LIE FOR the junta) or they knew damn well what it said and deliberately lied about it. In either case, it is the most egregious example of corpo-fascist 'news' monopoly disinformation since the New York Slimes promoted false evidence of WMDs in Iraq, day after day, in the leadup to the Iraq invasion.

(This Reagan-era Honduran Constitution limits the president to ONE term of office in order to enhance the power of the "School of the Americas"-trained Honduran military and the "ten families" oligarchy that runs Honduras for U.S. corporate and war profiteer interests. No president with only one term of office can gain enough political traction to oppose these powers on behalf of the poor majority. In my opinion, President Zelaya would therefore have been justified in challenging this one-term provision and seeking to change it by national referendum. But the FACT IS that he DID NOT, and he COULD NOT HAVE benefited in any way from the proposal for a constituent assembly, which, if it had been passed by the voters, would have merely prompted a national discussion on political/constitutional reform. It would have been years before constituent assemblies could even be formed, let alone before they hammered out provisions for a new constitution to submit to the voters, long after his term was up.)

(Did he THINK that maybe one day--years later, with a new Constitution--he could run again? Maybe he did. Who knows? And so, his house was shot up and his family terrorized, and he was dragged from bed, beaten up and put on a plane at gunpoint, and exiled from his country--in violation of a specific provision of the current Constitution which forbids the forced exile of Honduran citizens--because of something he may have THOUGHT?)

4. The U.S. government and the Pentagon were complicit in this violent rightwing military coup all along, never more so than with the bullshit that is going on now--a so-called "truth commission" that ignores the victims of the coup's violence. The coup may have been designed by the Bushwhacks (it occurred six months into Obama's first year in office), but it was clearly aided and abetted by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the Pentagon. The U.S. ambassador in Honduras (a Bushwhack appointee) admitted knowing of the coup ahead of time and the plane carrying the kidnapped president out of the country at gunpoint stopped at the U.S. air base in Honduras for refueling!. What were those U.S. commanders DOING, while Honduran democracy was destroyed? Their alleged purpose in Honduras is interdicting drug traffic, and THEY DIDN'T NOTICE a plane with blacked windows carrying the kidnapped president stopping at their airport? Clinton then arranged infusions of millions of U.S. tax dollars to the coupsters while LYING that the U.S. disapproved of the coup. She furthermore arranged--at our expense--the election that occurred under martial law, which the rightwing coup supporters, of course, won, because many leftist activists were dead, political activity was forbidden, the opposition media had been brutally silenced, and the people of Honduras terrorized by the police and the military and by rightwing death squads. No international election monitoring group--not the Carter Center, nor the OAS nor the EU--would touch this election. They refused. So Clinton brought in foaming-at-the-mouth rightwingers, from John McCain's (U.S. taxpayer funded) "International Republican Institute" and other such operatives to "monitor" the election run by the Honduran military. This, and every other action of Clinton--including this recent phony "truth commission"--has been to CLEANSE a bloody rightwing coup, and to keep the fascist elite in control in Honduras.

5. We need to understand the REAL reasons for this coup, as well as the 100% LIES that have been promoted about it. The REAL reasons for it were be summed up by one of the coup generals, who said that, by their coup, they were "preventing communism from Venezuela reaching the United States" (--quoted in a report on the coup by the Zelaya government-in-exile). Venezuela is NOT communist. "Communism," in this case, means: decent wages, free universal medical care, free education through college, transparent elections, high voter turnouts, maximum citizen participation, eradication of poverty and illiteracy, land reform, government "of, by and for" the people, sovereign control of resources, protection of "the commons," no corporate rule, no military rule, no death squads, no dictation from Washington. Now, why would anyone want to prevent these things from "reaching the United States"? Think about it. That's a pretty bizarre statement. A Honduran general gets it into his head that he is obliged to prevent universal free medical care and transparent elections in the U.S.? How did he conceive such a notion? And WHO is he speaking for?

Zelaya had taken SMALL STEPS toward a more equitable society--for instance, raising the minimum wage (in a country rife with U.S. corporate sweatshops and Chiquita slave labor farms). He also opposed privatization of telecommunications (a particular interest of John McCain's in Honduras). The oligarchy that runs Honduras profits from low wages and private control of what should be public works. And so do U.S.-based multinational corporations. But there is much more to this Honduran general's mention of Venezuela. It is not just that Venezuela has an honestly elected, pro-people government. The destruction of Honduran democracy has to do with those things THREATENING our U.S. corporate tyrants, by their very existence--in Venezuela and in other countries where a successful leftist democracy revolution has occurred (Ecuador, Bolivia, Paraguay, Nicaragua, El Salvador and others). And it has to do with the Pentagon's plan for "full spectrum" military capabilities throughout Latin America, but most especially in the Central America/Caribbean region including Venezuela's oil coast and its northern oil provinces, which contain the biggest oil reserves on earth (twice Saudi Arabia's). The newly reconstituted US 4th Fleet in the Caribbean, the U.S. military base and naval facilities in Honduras, the U.S. military bases on the Dutch islands right off Venezuela's oil coast and the SEVEN new U.S. military bases in Colombia (adjacent to Venezuela) now surround this, the biggest oil source in the world.

"Preventing communism from Venezuela reaching the United States" means destroying democracy in Latin America and getting control of its oil, as well as keeping us in the dark about universal free medical care and other "communist" ideas. President Zelaya was a long way from proposing universal free medical care but he was heading in that direction--in the direction of REAL "of, by and for" the people government. Thus he--and the vast popular movement in Honduras that he was rightfully responding to--had to be destroyed, lest it creep up through Central America to our very shores. And the traditional U.S. launching pad for its war against the Left in Latin America--Honduras--had to be preserved. It is a strategic war asset. And guess who was advising Hillary Clinton on this matter? None other than John "death squad" Negroponte!



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protocol rv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. The new Oligarchs in Venezuela are the red-shirted PSUV members
Venezuela is undergoing the rise of a new Oligarchy, the PSUV party members, associated corrupt cadres who use arbitrary power and abuses to enrich themselves. Don't kid yourself by ignoring this problem, they are what will kill the government's potential. Between their incompetence, and their corruption, and are bound to fail. Failure may mean they rule a country which is enpoverished and lacks human rights. So what will the difference with the typical banana republic from Central America, led by 10 families who control the Army? Not much.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is one of the best expositions I've read on the crisis in Honduras.
It will be important to watch that hearing if possible or to read the transcript, to see who does participate if nothing else. It's this coming Wednesday.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Important to have read this. Also from the same author, please see the following:
This was linked from Downwinder's original article:

CAMPESINO ASSASSINATED IN HONDURAS:
POLICE TRAINED FOR A “FALSE FLAG” OPERATION; BILLY JOYA TRAINING PARAMILITARIES IN COLON
By Annie Bird

An extremely dangerous situation is developing in the municipality of Tocoa, department of Colon in the region known as the Bajo Aguan in Honduras.

In the days leading up to the April 1st murder of a young campesino, the preparation of a “false flag” operation intended to confirm the (false) existence of an armed resistance movement in Honduras was exposed. Reports claim that a renowned death squad member from the 1980’s – Billy Joya - is training paramilitary forces, while a select police unit is being prepared to “combat guerillas.”

This extremely high level of violence, repression and impunity threatens the lives of campesino families organized in the Movimiento Unificado Campesino de Aguan (MUCA) who are immersed in land conflicts with some of Honduras’ most powerful businessmen. It also threatens to present a “justification” for greater repression of the non-violent resistance movement in Honduras (the Frente), who along with many nations in the world do not recognize the legitimacy of the Pepe Lobo government, and who are calling for a new constitution.

ATTACKS ON MUCA MEMBERS

On April 1, 2010, 22 year old Miguel Alonso Oliva was fatally shot in the back during the occupation of the Boleros farm. This killing comes after the steady escalation of the presence of military, police and private security forces in the area.

The morning of Lobo’s inauguration, January 27, 2010, a group of police, military and private security forces entered a MUCA community, where they opened fire and gravely injured four young men. The timing of acts of extreme repression during significant moments appears to be a pattern meant to send messages to the Frente.

In addition to the violence, disinformation is being published in the Honduran press stating that the MUCA families are an armed guerrilla movement tied to the national Resistance movement, financed by international drug traffickers, tied to the Colombian guerrilla movement, the FARC, and with the backing of Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua.

Though blatantly false this fabrication is disturbingly similar to narratives being promoted in the United States Congress by lobbyists and right wing members of congress. The objective of the manipulation of Honduran press may not only be to manipulate the Honduran population, but apparently to substantiate a false narrative presented to the “international community.”

More:
http://www.rightsaction.org/Alerts/Honduras_death_squads_040510.html
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks, Downwinder. Recommending. #3.
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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