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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-10 07:43 PM
Original message
official results of Ven election by votes
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Official results in the Electoral Council page
http://www.cne.gob.ve/divulgacion_parlamentarias_2010/

Take a look at Caracas, Miranda and Carabobo where the heavy gerrymandering took place. The result is a 9-10 point lead by the opposition, who won in the 3 states, but only gets 13 seats out of 32.

The contrary never happened. There's no state with a chavista majority where the opposition gets more deputies. Not even close.

Centralized gerrymandering...
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Oposición perdió dos diputados en Distrito Capital por circuitos

Cambios legales potenciaron el voto del chavismo y diluyeron el opositor

EUGENIO G. MARTÍNEZ | EL UNIVERSAL
martes 28 de septiembre de 2010 12:00 AM

Los cambios en las circunscripciones obraron el milagro para el chavismo en el Distrito Capital. Sin la reagrupación de parroquias que realizó el Consejo Nacional Electoral (CNE) -a partir de la aprobación de la Ley Orgánica de Proceso Electorales (Lopre)- la oposición hubiese capitalizado dos diputados adicionales a los contabilizados actualmente por el organismo comicial.

Hasta julio de 2009 el Distrito Capital tenía seis circunscripciones uninominales (elegían a un solo diputado nominal). Según lo dispuesto en la Ley Orgánica del Sufragio y Participación Política (Lospp) de sus 10 diputados 60% (6) debían escogerse por nombre y apellido y 40% (4) por votación tipo lista. No obstante, la Asamblea Nacional, con el voto de los parlamentarios de los partidos PSUV, Partido Comunista y PPT, derogó la Lospp al aprobar la Ley Orgánica de Procesos Electorales (Lopre)

La nueva Ley establece, para el caso del Distrito Capital, que 70% (7) de los diputados deben escogerse nominalmente y 30% (3) por votación lista.

Por esta razón el CNE decidió reagrupar las 22 parroquias de la entidad y crear cinco circunscripciones nuevas. Tres de ellas uninominales y dos plurinominales (cada una escoge dos diputados)

Según el reporte de resultados del CNE, en el Distrito Capital la alianza de partidos que integran la Mesa de la Unidad Democrática (MUD) capitalizó 484.844 votos y la alianza PSUV- Partido Comunista obtuvo 484.103 sufragios.

La diferencia de 741 votos le permite a la oposición -después de aplicar el método D Hondt- ganar dos de los tres diputados tipo lista de la entidad. Sin embargo, en las cinco circunscripciones de la zona apenas pudo obtener el triunfo en la C3, en la cual resultó electo Richard Blanco.

En total, de los 10 diputados el chavismo capitalizó 7 parlamentarios y la oposición 3.

Este consolidado pudiese variar si prospera el recuento de actas de escrutinio solicitado por Antonio Ecarri en la circunscripción 2.

Impacto de las modificaciones
Si se toman los resultados por parroquias y éstas se reagrupan para revertir los cambios que introdujo el CNE en el mes de diciembre de este año y se regresa la proporcionalidad a 60% diputados nominales y 40% lista el panorama de la entidad cambia, el chavismo dejaría de ganar en el Distrito Capital.

Asumiendo que la alianza de partidos de la MUD y del PSUV presentaran sus candidaturas utilizando morochas -para desvincular el voto lista de los nominales- los 484.844 votos capitalizados en toda la entidad le valdrían a la oposición dos de los cuatro diputados tipo lista, mientras el chavismo capitalizaría el resto de curules.

El mayor impacto se registraría en las seis circunscripciones de la entidad en las cuales la oposición pasaría a ganar tres diputados nominales, al igual que el chavismo.

Al hacer la totalización de cargos que deberían adjudicarse a cada bloque -empleando los criterios de la derogada Lospp- el PSUV obtendría tres diputados nominales y dos parlamentarios tipo lista, al igual que la oposición.

La simulación de resultados empleando los criterios electorales de la Lospp indican que la oposición ganaría en tres de las seis circunscripciones (ver infografía anexa)

Al consolidar los resultados se obtiene que la MUD ganaría 3 diputados nominales y 2 listas, y el PSUV obtendría 3 nominales y 2 listas. Paridad absoluta en cantidad de votos y diputados. Sin embargo, el resultado del 26S oficial es de 7 a 3.


http://www.eluniversal.com/2010/09/28/pol_art_oposicion-perdio-dos_2051655.shtml
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. The parallels with Bush are increasing all the time.
Go into debt to buy chinese junk, majority votes against you, etc.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Chavez will have a very difficult 2011-2012 if oil prices don't rise.
He's currently gambling on a new oil shock with all the $ loans he's taking from abroad. Very risky.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. thanks for this interesting info
I'd love to hear thoughts from some of our other Venezuela "experts".
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Usual "North of the Border 'we are the world'" dialectics
Last time I tried, Travis county in Texas was the analytical rule for us Venezuelans... a classic.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=405&topic_id=41060&mesg_id=41192
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. although gerrymanding is common in the US, I believe the winner is the one with the most votes
no matter how absurd the shape of the district, the person with the most votes wins the Congressional districts. her example is a poor illustration of her point that "the US does it too".

Now, the presidential election is different of course, I suspect the Venezuelan congressional election system is a bit more comparable to our presidential system.

frankly, you'll have to help me out though and give me an explanation on how these congressman were or were not elected.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. The gerrymandering/ malapportionment is decided at a national level in Venezuela
unlike the US. Only the federal majority (National Assembly) can make a territorial reconfiguration. It can make it in any district of the country.

All the deputies are elected in the same election. Each state has a certain amount of seats which is determined by the number of districts it contains and by the size of the state.

For example, Miranda:
7 districts; 5 simple (one deputy for each small district), 2 double (two deputies for each big district) = 9 "district seats"
3 "state seats" given by the global result in the state (in this case, it's a pretty big State which has a 3 seat weight)

As you can see, the proportion is 3/4 district seats and 1/4 state seats.

TOTAL = 12 seats

The opposition won in 2 simple districts and in 1 double = 4 district seats
The global score for the state was 57.12% in favor of the opposition => the opposition got 2 out of 3 state seats.

Total seats won by the opposition = 6 out of 12
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bherrera Donating Member (600 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. USA is bad, and so what
These guys are disgusting, everybody knows the USA is not that good. Finding excuses like "the Americans do it" is not very intelligent. The Americans torture prisoners, so you should torture prisoners because the Americans do it?

This is not a good idea, to gerrymander this way. It is too much making them look like crooks. In the USA, the two parties are crooks. They gerrymander a lot, but because they are two big crooks engaged in a fight using crooked methods, then the final solution is similar to the solution they should have if they are honest. In Venezuela, the communists have all the ability to do the gerrymander, the opposition has no place to do it. So the gerrymander is very clear, and it makes the Chavez party look really bad.
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bherrera Donating Member (600 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Amazing results - opposition wins the popular vote
This must be a serious pain for the communists, they have a measurement poll of millions of Venezuelans, and their side lost the majority. I think the problem is very clear, the system is maneuvered to make the communist side win, when it has the minority of the vote. This makes Chavez looks bad. It is too biased.
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CJvR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-10 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. A bit silly of Chavez.
Making the cheating so obvious, almost like Saddam and Little Kim. Half the votes or less still generates a 2/3 majority, well almost, in seats. It might technically be legal but it sure isn't particulary democratic. Aiming for 55% of the seats would give him a bit bigger fig leaf of credibility to hide behind.

It is a good example of why I find majority elections so questionable compared to proportional systems - it is so much easier to cheat in a majority system, you can effectively disable democracy by simple administrative decissions far removed from the eyes of the public.
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