Castro blames the United States for restraining Chávez's triumph

[Bacchus39]

Castro blames the United States for restraining Chávez's triumph

http://english.eluniversal.com/2010/09/27/en_pol_esp_castro-blames-the-un_27A4527373.shtml


“The Bolivarian revolution has today the Executive branch of government, a wide majority at the parliament and a party able to mobilize million fighters for socialism, the Cuban leader said, no matter the results
Election 2010
Cuban leader Fidel Castro said on Monday that "the enemy," meaning the United States, prevented Venezuela's President Hugo Chávez from getting two thirds of the seats at the parliament election. Anyhow, his ally got a "great victory."

"The enemy accomplished part of his goals, which was to prevent the Bolivarian government from having the support of two thirds of the parliament. The empire might think that it got a great victory," Castro said in an article posted on the government-run website Cubadebate.cu.

"The Bolivarian revolution has today the Executive branch of government, a wide majority at the parliament and a party able to mobilize million fighters for socialism, the Cuban leader wrote in his article entitled, "All that they want is Venezuela's oil," AFP quoted.


-------------------------------------

fascinating take from the dude who is desperate that Chavez remain forever in power to supply Cuba with their energy needs.

[L Cutter]

1. Whose oil is it?

>fascinating take from the dude who is desperate that Chavez remain forever in power to supply Cuba with their energy needs. <


That Venezuelan oil comes to Cuba via fair and mutually beneficial trade, rather than just being ripped off by skullduggery and/or bullets for the benefit of the Empire that the dude has been forced to spend his life defending his nation against.

[Bacchus39]

2. "All they want is Venezuela's oil"

that's his quote. Venezuela is perfectly within their rights to give, trade, or sell to anyone of their choosing.

the point being, its Castro who wants Venezuela's oil. its of great strategic importance for Castro to see Hugo remain in power. Unless he can count on Hugo's successor to give him the same deal.

[L Cutter]

3. What do they want?

Of course it's strategically important. The problem is in the "all they want" part.

[Bacchus39]

5. well, Fidel could have congratulated the Venezuelan pueblo for exercising their rights

of their own choosing instead of lamenting the difficulties posed to the Chavez government because the Ven people didn't give him a supermajority

[L Cutter]

7. Fidel could have

Why do you expect so much more from Castro than you do of your own government?

[spanza]

4. Venezuela receives doctors for a portion of the oil's value. But it's a subsidy to Cuba

which is designed to be so. And in that particular case I wouldn't disagree. I tend to disagree more when Venezuela gives a subsidy to American or British citizens since there's a hell of a lot more necessity in Venezuela than in those rich countries.

[L Cutter]

8. Venezuela gives

The Venezuelan government attempts to do with gifts of oil what the US government attempts to do with bombs and bullets.

[bherrera]

11. Problem is Venezuela is relatively poor country

The problem is Venezuela's government gives money away to prop up marxist government in Cuba

[L Cutter]

35. immensely greater return for investment

>bherrera
The problem is Venezuela's government gives money away to prop up marxist government in Cuba<

Venezuela does not give the money away. It's bartered for badly need services. Whether the oil is bartered, subsidized or given as a gift, the point is that it is used as a matter of humane foreign policy rather than bombing, and the relatively small monetary investment in foreign relations is having an immensely greater return for the investment than the US's incessant bombings.

[Billy Burnett]

10. How much oil is worth the lives saved and people cured?

Many are sick and tired of the body count in the name of access to oil, but, what about the inverse? How much oil is worth the lives saved and people cured?


All the best.

[bherrera]

12. Excellent question

But we should question, is it reasonable for Venezuela to pay excessively for the imported Cuban doctors? The payments made to Cuba are very high, a lot higher than they should be. It is evident the doctor payments are used as a non-transparent method to subsidize the economy of Cuba.

There is also another problem, the system they use creates an influx of foreign workers, instead of paying Venezuelan workers an adequate salary to encourage Venezuelans to do the work. This is irrational, and it is typical of the economic policy carried out by the guys ruling Venezuela.

There is a background to this madness we see, these guys are communists, and communism does have a vein which leads them to internationalize their struggle for domination - they have always stated their goal is complete domination of the world. This is one reason why they are always defeated, they focus a lot on wars and revolution, and neglect the people in the countries they do control. The Soviet Union, as you know, fell for this reason. A population full of very poor and badly treated people, ruled by an oligarchy which lived in palaces and carried out endless wars in places like Afghanistan.

The USA, with a mighty economic engine, land, water, and many hard working people, has been able to afford these imperial aspirations for a while, but now it is entering a decay period as it exhausts its resources. But poor Venezuela can not aspire, with its weak economy, and a government characterized by corruption and poor management, to be helping other nations like Cuba, with huge subsidies.

I think the Castro brothers realize the end of the Venezuelan subsidies is close, and this is why they are turning away from communism. They realize their party is over.

[L Cutter]

36. "workers"?

>bherrera
is it reasonable for Venezuela to pay excessively for the imported Cuban doctors? The payments made to Cuba are very high, a lot higher than they should be. It is evident the doctor payments are used as a non-transparent method to subsidize the economy of Cuba.<

The Cuban doctors are a Cuban resource. The oil is payment for that resource. The exchange is wise foreign policy.

>bherrera
the system they use creates an influx of foreign workers, instead of paying Venezuelan workers an adequate salary to encourage Venezuelans to do the work.<

You use "workers" to mislead. They're doctors - a human resource in short supply in Venezuela made worse by the fact that so many of them refuse to serve the "workers"

[ChangoLoa]

18. I don't disagree neither

Not at all. OTOH I disagree when we pay public transportation to people in London (which must be like 20 times richer than Caracas) and the supposed expertise we should have received in return never happens. That was pretty cold.

[L Cutter]

37. where the Pilgrims picked up their habit

>ChangoLoa
we pay public transportation to people in London (which must be like 20 times richer than Caracas) and the supposed expertise we should have received in return never happens. That was pretty cold<


Yes, that was cold. But, that is, after all, where the Pilgrims picked up their habit of tearing up contracts they signed with the natives.

You and your sidekick seem determined to ignore the analogy "The Venezuelan government attempts to do with gifts of oil what the US government attempts to do with bombs and bullets." and the relative value of aid vs. bombs for economics and security and just keep whistling past the graveyard with tunes from the disastrous-for-the-people, neoliberal IMF economic songbook

[ChangoLoa]

43. You are not making any sense

"The Venezuelan government attempts to do with gifts of oil what the US government attempts to do with bombs and bullets."

You're basically saying that the Venezuelan govt is trying drain money into some sectors of its industrial complex and, more generally, to dominate the world by....offering transportation subsidies to some Londoners.

But then you insult me.
Have you ever heard ME "whistling past the graveyard with tunes from the disastrous-for-the-people, neoliberal IMF economic songbook"?

No. I'd say it's quite the opposite. I've personally suffered a lot because of IMF policies and have always stood up to protest against them.

Is there any reason for you to go around trying to vilify other DUers without any basis?

You should apologize.

[L Cutter]

45. making sense

>You're basically saying that the Venezuelan govt is...<

No, I'm saying Chavez uses gifts of oil as a foreign policy tool as the US uses bombs as a foreign policy tool.

>I've personally suffered a lot because of IMF policies and have always stood up to protest against them.<

Humm. I may have judged you guilty by association, but some the attacks you make on others might make that understandable. If you have suffered, you have my sympathy. If you have stood up, you have my appreciation and respect.

>You should apologize.<

You should stop being such a drama queen.

[bherrera]

6. Castro is not aware his mind is not well

I'm starting to think Fidel Castro is not aware he is making many statements which sound bad, similar to the statements made by crazy men. It is senile, this behavior.

[Joe Chi Minh]

9. Do you think, perhaps that dissidents to capitalism should be place in

secure psychiatric units? For their own good of course.

You think Fidel's views reflect a psychiatric disorder? Alzheimer's, maybe? Or just senile dementia? What do you think of the geopolitical mindset of the US? Is it sound? Or pathological? You seem to have expert knowledge of what constitutes sanity, and what constitutes a psychiatric disorder. We are lucky to have the inside track of a professional on these matters.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Billy Burnett]

14. "They get distracted, or they get fixated in a single thought, and then craft very long statements"

Oh, the f-ing irony. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Joe Chi Minh]

16. Ha ha! Well spotted, Billy!

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bherrera]

17. I didn't like Pinochet

I suppose you like to explain the abuses of these left wing extremists by saying the right wing extremists do it too. Maybe you don't understand this basic point, all extremists, of the left and of the right, tend to be losers.

They are defeated by their own incompetence, their warmongering, or the people rise in anger and kick them out of power.

Their inability to have a system with feedback, where people are free, is their doom. Thus communists will always be doomed to fail. Everywhere. Communists, like right wing fascists such as Franco and Pinochet, belong in the garbage can of history.

[Joe Chi Minh]

19. Why single out the Communists, when the fascists are so much uglier?

I'll bet Abu Ghraib and other prisons like it, were/are more depraved than the Lubyanka was under Stalin. And I expect that's saying something. Still no word on your assessment of the warped, US presidential elections, or its geopolitics.

The Chinese Communist party performed marvels in Red China, until the evil West stirred the pot the way it always does. Of course, that is because Communism is substantially based on Judaeo-Christian scripture, although without acknowledging God, as its all-important provenance. It was possible for such a country to thrive under Communism for a while, but it was doomed to failure in even post-Christian Europe.

Cuba is a special case, since, in the teeth of the hostility of its superpower next-door neighbour, it has managed to perform immense good, both for its own people and for some of its neighbours in Latin America. Also, latterly, I believe, the Catholic church has been tolerated in Cuba.

[bherrera]

20. This subject is "Castro blames...blah blah blah"

In other words, this is a Latin American discussion, and the person who posted the first statement was discussing Fidel Castro and the elections in Venezuela? Let me ask you, why do you try to change the subject when we discuss one thing, and not the other thing? If you want to discuss US attack against Iraq, please invite me to do so, and I can discuss that, in a different place. But I will not fall to this trick you use, to change and distract attention from the subject, because you know you can't discuss it, and this guy Fidel is really looking very old and with some mental problems. It's old age, guy, it happens to everybody. Don't use your argument capability trying to make believe this old man is like one of those characters from the Bible, he is not.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bherrera]

24. You continue to change the subject

The subject is Castro's lack of mental capacity, and his thesis that Chavez' defeat in the elections was caused by the USA. Which of course shows the man is senile. Chavez was defeated by his own actions, surrounded by people who lack competence, and tend to be corrupt, the government has managed a very interesting trick: to have very high inflation, a negative GDP growth, and increasing crime. All things which impact the poor, and which led to a majority voting against the communists.

I have a thesis, which I have explained in the past, these "communists" are definitely not real socialists. I don't like it when they use the name to cover their true nature. They are people who use populism to implement a form of fascism, a militarist, arrogant, and fake populist method which reminds me more of the national socialist government of Germany. And I do want to remind you the Kims in North Korea, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot were communists. Communist rule under one party rule leads to dictatorship, and very serious human rights abuses. It has nothing to do with socialism, and it has been swept by history. Like a disease which is not completely eliminated, it will always come back, but it always leads to misery, and therefore human nature will always react and defeat it.

[L Cutter]

39. alert and paying attention

>bherrera
The subject is Castro's lack of mental capacity, and his thesis that Chavez' defeat in the elections was caused by the USA. Which of course shows the man is senile.


More likely it's that he's alert and paying attention to US interference in Venezuelan politics and drew a rational conclusion.

Note: Chavez was not defeated in the election. He is still Presidente.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[L Cutter]

38. Change the subject?

>bherrera
this is a Latin American discussion, and the person who posted the first statement was discussing Fidel Castro and the elections in Venezuela? Let me ask you, why do you try to change the subject when we discuss one thing, and not the other thing?<


So, do tell, how would you discuss the American Revolution without a mention of the British Empire and it's proclivities?

[CJvR]

21. What marvel?

The Great Leap Forward, possibly the single greatest disaster in human history.
The Cultural revolution, Mao's version of Stalin's great terror.

[Joe Chi Minh]

22. The marvel of more than a billion people being fed clothed and housed.

In a TV news, current-affairs programme in the UK, eye-witnesses, who spent some years in China as English teachers, were unanimous in their statements concerning the extraordinary happiness of the ordinary Chinese people under the Communist regime.

What's more, they were extraordinarily law-abiding by absolute standards, never mind by the West's degenerate standards. They could leave their hotel rooms unlocked in the certain knowledge that nothing would be stolen. And guess what, female hotel guests didn't even need to fear being raped by visiting burglars. How about that!

Now, of course, human nature being inherently unstable, the Cultural Revolution failed, no doubt greatly assisted by the West's ever malign influence, and those years of contentment, peace and harmony in China, are all history, now. Albeit one that our ever-busy propagandists have never publicized.

Note from this article, that before Mao, China's rulers had been happy to accept Western contributions towards famine relief, but only for short-term improvements. For a long time before the Communists took over, Western experts had recognized the need for long-term improvements in the country's economic and physical infrastructure, and insisted on it, together with the usual strings attached; and their assistance was rejected.

In fact, Chiang Kai-shek had been in organised crime in his younger days - that age old, universal nexus between organised crime and the far right. He kept the large amount of money that the American government had provided him for the continued prosecution of the civil war against the insurgent Communists for his personal use; even the American dignitaries involved, who would not have been naive about corruption in high places, at home and abroad, were disgusted beyond belief.

During the war against the Communists, Kai-shek's troops starved; indeed, they had to be kept chained up at night, to prevent their defecting to the other side.

It is estimated that 30% of the causes of the famine caused by the Great Leap Forward were natural, so, it's reasonable to assume, it was more likely to be 40%. Nevertheless, of course, it was a massively tragic, maladministered policy for those who suffered and died during that famine, despite the undoubted improvement in the lives of the Chinese people later under the Communist regime.

In view of the disastrous effects, reported even in our media, of the current liberalisation of the Chinese economy on millions of the Chinese people, the rationale of the cultural Revolution would have made sense to the atheist mind; ignorant as it is of the Christian axiom that Grace builds upon nature. There is no short-cut to a Utopia, in which God is left out, although Communism was, for a long time, extremely beneficial to a non-Christian people imbued with Confucian values. Unlike in the West, where its benefits were much more problematical, and its outrages, all to manifest. As so many outrages are manifest, today, in much of the neoliberal, English-speaking world, notably the US and UK.

http://www.bookrags.com/history/faminechina-ema-02/

[bherrera]

26. it really takes some kind of person

To defend the Chinese communists. Not even the Chinese like that method, and they have turned away from being so happy under communism. Don't you understand your communism is hated by people as soon as they understand how terrible it is?

[Joe Chi Minh]

29. No. those same peope interviewed said, and it's clearly the case,

that China is massively rural and the people would have 'bona fide' Communism back in a flash, if they were given the opportunity.

It was true fairly recently in Russia, too, though whether it is still the case, now that Putin has reined in much of the gangster capitalism, I don't know. The current regime in China is a sham, very akin to NuLab(c), in the UK.

Doesn't feeding, clothing and housing a third of the world's population, as it was in 1960, for example, mean anything to you? For crying out loud! Why is it you doggedly refuse to acknowledge the positive accomplishments of Red China and post-Battista Cuba?

[naaman fletcher]

41. China Inspired Interrogations at Guantánamo

"What the trainers did not say, and may not have known, was that their chart had been copied verbatim from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false, from American prisoners."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/02detain.html?_r=1

[naaman fletcher]

42. Spanish Judge Accepts Charges of Genocide and Torture against Highranking CCP Officials

MADRID, Spain—In a groundbreaking case, following a two-year investigation, a Spanish judge has accepted charges of genocide and torture in a case filed against five high-ranking CCP officials for their role in the persecution of Falun Gong.

http://www.consciencefoundation.org/index.php/news/news-world/239-spanish-judge-accepts-charges-of-genocide-and-torture-against-highranking-ccp-officials

[bherrera]

25. The Killing Fields of Camboya

And the ruin of so many countries in Eastern Europe. These guys don't learn that communism is a failure. It is based on flawed theory written by an idiot who could never make an honest living. And this is why even Fidel Castro says their method does not work, and today Cuba is moving away from the communist system.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bherrera]

44. Moral integrity?

I don't think it is moral integrity on Castro's part. It is an understanding that his system has failed, and he is old, and everything is going to change. He is trying to control the change a little, but it is too late, I think.

The killing fields of Camboya were filled with cadavers of people killed by communists led by Pol Pot. In other words, your dear communists were shown to be murderous psychopaths. Which seems to be a re-current theme in recent history, communists as a general rule tend to be murderers and tyrants. Which is the reason why they should not be allowed to mask as socialists. We Spanish socialists are true socialists.

[naaman fletcher]

28. This is all good

At least we know that he's a unrepentant "ends justifies the means" communist, and has zero moral authority when criticizing "fascists". The worst scum of Colombia have never done anything remotely as bad as his chinese communist heroes.

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. Name any depravity of a Communist regime to compare with those of

the fascist regimes, such as the Nazis', Pinochet's Chile, or Argentina under the junta? Or Abu Ghraib, for that matter? One would be enough. But you can't because it is a speciality of demons without a shred of idealism, who oppress the poor to the maximum. And you'll be held to account on Judgment Day for your complicity.

Speaking of the largely man-made famine under Mao, how many millions of people in the third world do you think are killed in each decade, not as a result of a poorly-executed, but idealistic plan on the part of a national leader, but as a result of the fathomless greed of the leading lights (darkness visible) of Western, economic imperialism?

[naaman fletcher]

32. easy.

the khmer rouge, the chinese, and the million plus the mengitsu killed. Pinochet, scum that he was, killed less than 3,000.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[naaman fletcher]

27. marvels?

"The Chinese Communist party performed marvels in Red China,"

Marvels like starving to death tens of millions of people? How many did Pinochet kill? A little less than 3K? And I think Pinochet is a piece of excrement. Glad to see who your political heros are.