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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:31 AM
Original message
Ecuador firmly believes the US had nothing to do with police rebellion
Ecuador cree "firmemente" que EEUU no estuvo detrás de rebelión policial

Ecuador cree "firmemente" que Estados Unidos no estuvo detrás de la rebelión policial que denunció como un golpe de Estado, pero no le extrañaría que sí hubieran participado "grupos de poder" de ese país, dijo este martes el canciller ecuatoriano, Ricardo Patiño.

"Yo creo firmemente que el señor (presidente de Estados Unidos Barack) Obama no habrá tenido nada que ver con esto. Espero, confío en que sus principales autoridades tampoco", señaló el ministro a corresponsales extranjeros.

El presidente de Venezuela, Hugo Chávez, y de Bolivia, Evo Morales, aliados del mandatario ecuatoriano Rafael Correa, denunciaron el fin de semana que Washington estuvo detrás de la sublevación que dejó 10 muertos y 274 heridos.

"Les puedo decir enfáticamente, estoy seguro, convencido, confiado en que en ningún caso las principales autoridades del gobierno de Estados Unidos puedan haber estado involucrados en esto", remarcó Patiño.

Sin embargo, el canciller indicó que grupos de poder estadounidenses que no identificó pudieron tener alguna participación.

"No puedo decir lo mismo de los grupos de poder que hay en los Estados Unidos y que no son controlados por el gobierno", sostuvo.

"Eso sí no me extrañaría", añadió el diplomático, afirmando que conoce bien "lo que han hecho esos grupos de poder en América Latina y en el mundo durante toda su historia" en cuanto a "golpes de Estado e invasiones, asesinatos, que están en los archivos del gobierno norteamericano".


http://www.ultimasnoticias.com.ve/capriles/cadena-global/detalle.aspx?idart=3370329&idcat=56658&tipo=2
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ecuadorian Ambassador rules out coup d'état against President Correa
"There is no coup d'état against President Rafael Correa," said Ecuador's ambassador to Venezuela, Ramón Torres Galarza, amid heavy protests by police in the last few hours.

"There is an insubordination of a small group of members of the National Police that seek to defend privileges and sinecures related to medals and bonuses, which are supposedly undermining their interests," the Ecuadorian diplomat told El Universal.

President Correa warned on Thursday that he will not bow in face of the protests by the police and military. The protesters reject a law passed by Congress that put an end to economic benefits given to members of both forces.

Meanwhile, the Head of the Joint Command of the Ecuadorian Armed Forces said that the Army is subordinate to the President Rafael Correa and respects his authority.


http://english.eluniversal.com/2010/09/30/en_pol_esp_ecuadorian-ambassado_30A4542655.shtml
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You know this article is from when the crisis was still in progress, right?
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I didn't. Thanks.
What about the other one?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well, I have to try to put myself in the shoes of the Correa government
and ask myself what I would say in their situation, whether I believed the US government was involved or not. It would probably sound a lot like that. :shrug:

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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Maybe it would
At the same time, I see a lot of hesitation in Correa's side. I'm guessing there's an increasing fragmentation in his own base. For example, I've noticed that many indigenous leaders are quite unhappy with his administration. Moreover, recent history shows us how easily coups can start in Ecuador. I really feel this is far from being over.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I agree. This is far from over. n/t
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. "fragmentation of his own base"? Like in that 75% Correa approval rating in Ecuador?
Ke-e-e-e-rack! There goes his "base"!

:rofl:

--

10/4/10

Correa's big opinion poll boost

Jurgen Schuldt over at Memorias de Gregorio Samsa has all the details of the opinion poll published by Santiago Perez OPE (one of Ecuador's main pollsters) with six screenshots of the published poll. Go there to get the details, but let's just note one datapoint to give you a taste:

September 25th 2010 (before the police protest/attempted coup last week): Positive Evaluation of Correa Government:
65%

October 2nd 2010 (after the police protest/attempted coup last week): Positive Evaluation of Correa Government:
75%


Go to here for more, including Correa's personal numbers.

UPDATE: Reliably witty mailer, reader 'MP' writes, "Just imagine where the polls would be if he were to knee someone in the nuts...."


http://www.incakolanews.blogspot.com/
link: http://www.jurgenschuldt.com/2010/10/como-andan-las-cosas-por-el-ecuador.html

---

Seems like his "base" was holding up pretty well even before the coup attempt. U.S. politicians would eat their grandmothers for a 65% approval rating. (And they might take some cues from Rafael Correa--such punching IMF loan sharks and multinational corporate monsters in the nose, and using oil profits to benefit the poor--as to how to get one!).

This is a rightwing "talking point," bouncing back and forth between the corpo-fascist press and the rightwing blogosphere, that Correa is "in trouble." Total baloney.
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bherrera Donating Member (600 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. We have to remember: left radicals always think the US is to blame
Therefore, in the days following the labor unrest, they will concoct the ideas, which they then will sing in unison, about US involvement. This is such a uniform reaction, and it is very predictable. Which means they lack any credibility whatsoever. They parrot the lines of senile leaders like Fidel Castro, or the buffoon statements of guys like Chavez. The USA is bad, but it is very silly to accuse them of things when a country in Latin America has a problem. It is so juvenile.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Or maybe we commies just know our history much better than you do.
And our politics, and our people and our government. :think:
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. WHOA -- let's look at this article a little more closely


(Caps, translation mine)

--------------------------
Ecuador cree "firmemente" que EEUU no estuvo detrás de rebelión policial
Ecuador "firmly" believes that U.S. was not behind the police rebellion

-- pero no le extrañaría que sí hubieran participado "grupos de poder" de ese país, dijo este martes el canciller ecuatoriano, Ricardo Patiño.

-- but it would not surprise him if that country's "POWER GROUPS" HAD PARTICIPATED (in the coup attempt).

"Yo creo firmemente que el señor (presidente de Estados Unidos Barack) Obama no habrá tenido nada que ver con esto. Espero, confío en que sus principales autoridades tampoco", señaló el ministro a corresponsales extranjeros.

"I firmly believe that (OBAMA) did not have anything to do with this. I hope, confide in that his principal authorities did not either," the ministers told foreign correspondents.


"Les puedo decir enfáticamente, estoy seguro, convencido, confiado en que en ningún caso las principales autoridades del gobierno de Estados Unidos puedan haber estado involucrados en esto", remarcó Patiño.

"I can say enfactically, I am sure, convinced, assured, that in no case the principal authories of the the U.S. government could have been involved in this," Patiño said.

Sin embargo, el canciller indicó que grupos de poder estadounidenses que no identificó pudieron tener alguna participación.

However, the chancellor indicated that U.S. power groups that he DID NOT IDENTIFY could have had some participation.

"No puedo decir lo mismo de los grupos de poder que hay en los Estados Unidos y que no son controlados por el gobierno", sostuvo.

"I cannot say the same for the power groups in the United States WHICH ARE NOT CONTROLLED BY THE GOVERNMENT," he said.

"Eso sí no me extrañaría", añadió el diplomático, afirmando que conoce bien "lo que han hecho esos grupos de poder en América Latina y en el mundo durante toda su historia" en cuanto a "golpes de Estado e invasiones, asesinatos, que están en los archivos del gobierno norteamericano".

"That would not surprise me," the diplomat added, saying the he knows well "WHAT THOSE GROUPS OF POWER HAVE DONE IN LATIN AMERICA THROUGHOUT HISTORY" IN REGARDS TO "COUPS, INVASIONS, ASSASSINATIONS" and which are in the archives of the North American government."

-----------------------

We can all guess to which "POWER GROUPS" he is referring.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Aqui hay gato encerrado. I skimmed an article Sunday night
where American business interests were mentioned but not named. Somebody knows something, I think. :shrug:
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Diplospeak. Read The Prince. n/t
Edited on Tue Oct-05-10 06:21 PM by Downwinder
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. It's a rather carefully stated distinction and an odd one, because...
there is really no difference between big money/private corporate interests in the U.S. and our government.

For instance, when Chiquita International execs got caught for their payments to rightwing death squads to take care of their "labor problem" in Colombia, by murdering the labor leaders, the Bush Junta let them off with a handslap fine and made the lawsuit of the victims' families in the U.S. go away. The private lawyer who brokered that deal with the Bushwhacks was Eric Holder, whom President Obama then appointed Attorney General of the United States.

Or, another for instance: When telecommunications, clothing retail sweatshops, war profiteer and (once again) Chiquita interests were perceived to be at risk in Honduras, while Obama and Clinton played the "high road" (for a short time), Senator Jim DeMint (SC-Diebold) went to Honduras, hobnobbed with the coupsters, and then put a hold on all Obama/Clinton's diplomatic appointments in Latin America and later crowed about blackmailing them to change their position on the coup (which they did--and we simply don't know if it was a change, or they requested to be blackmailed; that is, they were on board for the coup all along but wanted it to appear otherwise).

Working for those corporate interests (in effect), the U.S. military sat on their hands, at their base in Honduras, when their "School of the Americas" buds in the Honduran military landed the plane carrying the kidnapped president out of the country, at gunpoint, at their base for refueling. Don't ask, don't tell.

These things work by backchannels, nods and handshakes, with no paper trail. And then there's the CIA (and, more recently, Rumsfeld's "Office of Special Plans," his own private intelligence agency and hit squad, which I believe is still in operation), who are answerable to NO ONE. Also, there is a VERY fuzzy line now between the U.S. government, private corporations and mercenary armies like Blackwater. One day Blackwater works for the State Department, the next day it works for some big, powerful U.S. multinational corporate monster.

So, TECHNICALLY, there may be no evidence of official U.S. government involvement in a coup attempt like this, but all the above lines cross ALL THE TIME in one, focused juggernaut of effort to destroy democracy in Latin America once again, reconquer the region and unmercifully rape its people and its resources for the profit of the rich. Their aim is to destroy the leftist democracy movement that has swept the continent by picking off the Bolivarians first, one by one, country by country. This is not only evident in the multi-millions of funding to rightwing groups all over Latin America, through the USAID and other agencies; it is also evident in the events of the last decade: Venezuela, 2002 (failed U.S. supported coup). Venezuela, 2003 (failed local oil elite and U.S. oil corp bosses' lockout to destroy Venezuela's economy). Ecuador/Venezuela, early 2008 (failed U.S. effort to start a war with Colombia as the surrogate). Bolivia, late 2008 (failed U.S. instigated/funded coup). Honduras, 2009 (successful U.S. coup). Ecuador, 2010 (failed coup--probable private U.S. oil interests and CIA involved, with deniability for Obama/Clinton).

Accompanying these overt and covert efforts of both private and official U.S. government entities has been the non-stop, 24/7, disinformation/psyops campaign against Latin America's leftist leaders in the corpo-fascist press. This too I believe is coordinated. (The sameness of the "talking points" often suggests a single source!)

I would not take this diplomatic language, with the Ecuadoran ambassador distinguishing between official U.S. government and private U.S. corporate interests, as the last word on this matter. Ecuador would be foolish to blame the U.S. government if it does not have good evidence. But you gotta wonder, for instance, does Obama know of all the "sleeper" agents that the CIA may have planted in agencies like the Ecuadoran national police? Does he know who the USAID is funding? There are a lot of things going on that he does not know and probably does not want to know. All he wants to know is, does he have "plausible deniability"?

And then there are all the private parties, rogue parties, mercenaries, and what all, unleashed by the Bush Junta, some still operating within our government, our military, our diplomatic corps and our intelligence establishment. (That business with the Bushwhack ambassador to Colombia, William Brownfield, is a good example of it--the extradition of key death squad witnesses to the U.S. and their burial in the federal prison system, by completely sealing their cases--against the express wishes of Colombian prosecutors; and the secret signing of a U.S./Colombia military agreement giving all U.S. soldiers and all U.S. military 'contractors' total diplomatic immunity in Colombia. (God knows what bloody filth all this is covering up!)

I am not at all assured by this ambassador's statement that the U.S. was NOT officially involved (but with deniability). For one thing, toppling Correa would just be too, too convenient for JOINT U.S. government/corporate interests. For another, all of U.S./Latin American history over the last half century argues for, not just interference, but LYING, DUPLICITOUS interference. (And, after Honduras, we know that the Obama administration is no different.)

So, we wait and see--as has happened time and again--for the truth to dribble out, in bits and pieces, some of it years later. The U.S. has rewarded Alvaro Uribe for accusing Rafael Correa and Hugo Chavez of being a 'terrorist lovers' and probably helped him concoct the absurd 'evidence' he tried to use. Ecuador will not accuse the U.S. unless and until they know for sure and have rock solid evidence of it. We need to remember, also, that Correa tangled with the U.S. embassy over this very issue, during the Bush Junta--U.S. direct interference with the National Police. The U.S. was using aid money to demand a veto of command appointments to the Ecuadoran police. They had been used to doing this! Correa said no. This could be a "tip of the iceberg" item, with a lot more being done to infiltrate U.S. operatives into the Ecuadoran police forces. I hope the investigation finds them, if they are there.

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