Venezuela: This Is What Democracy Looks Like

[Better Believe It]

http://www.veninfo.org/

[Joanne98]

1. Wow. Great site thanx. K&R

[nels25]

2. No thanks

I did not wear my USN uniform for 17 plus years for that kind of government.

I like being a citizen of the US.

I will take my chances here, warts, troubles and all then live in a so called socialist utopia run by a megalomaniac.

[Mudoria]

3. Be ready to duck

[nels25]

4. What are they going to do

take my life??

No all they will do is disagree with me, most likely in very angry and somewhat offensive terms.

I happens every time I am dumb enough to comment the hero Chavez and his country.

Hey if they love it, then more power to them.

Me I am a student of history, what he is doing has been tried before and has yet to work.

Nothing in his actions suggest to me that he will be able to accomplish what Lenin, Stalin, Mao, et-al have failed to do.

He shows all the classic signs of a tin horn dictator and I stand by my comment that problems and all I would rather live here than the the utopias run by Castro or Chavez.

Just my 2 cents.

No flame away if you like.

[ieoeja]

6. Got any other examples of tin horn dictators accepting the results of elections they lost?

You are obviously well versed in recent activity in Venezuela. So you obviously know his proposed constitutional modifications went down in defeat in a popular election.

[nels25]

8. Oh come on if that election was legitimate than

I have swamp land in a new development named Atlantis I want to show you.

He was going to try a coup in the hours after he lost his bid to seize total power by his so called referendum and the army stepped in and stooped him.

I have no doubt that he will continue to try to find a way to seize power for life until he is either successful or removed from power by his own people (most likely killed).

One thing I am confident of is that no matter what happens to him no US finger prints will be on it, for 2 reasons.

A. It is really to late for Bush to try anything, he shot his bolt 6 years ago.

B. Obama will not operate like that.

No when/if Chavez ever gets overthrown it will be by his own people.

In the meantime he will take much joy from being a jerk on the international scene, and a minor pain in our A*&.

[High Plains]

10. Got a source for that Chavez coup attempt?

Or are you just making shit up?

Oh, and the American subversion of Latin American democracies has been a bipartisan effort for decades. I hope Obama makes a break with that tradition, but I'm not seeing a lot of evidence of that yet.

[nels25]

21. Sure do

Check out the reporting of the election results in the NYT and other spots.

It mentions how the mad he was and how he was going to announce he had won anyway and use the army to back his play.

The army refused their assigned role, and told Chavez to behave himself.

Like I said though I am sue he will try again, megalomaniacs like him never stop their quest for power.

[roody]

37. It's probably in the Washington Compost too.

[ieoeja]

14. Did you just accuse him of rigging the election ... that he lost?

:rofl:

You are just too fucking funny!

[nels25]

20. Sure did!

go back and read some of the news reports of the actions he was taking and how he was limiting (I am using a polite word here) the opposition wherever and whenever possible.

He pretty much banned the opposition from using the media.

So yeah I am charging that the election was far from fair and to a certain point rigged.

I am sure that it came as complete shock to him that he lost considering the actions he took to ensure victory.

In the end it took the quiet intervention of the army to keep him form seizing power by announcing he had won an election that all knew he had lost.

Don't take my word for it look up the reporting of it in the papers try the NYT.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

25. I've tried the New York times. They told me Saddam Hussein had

weapons of mass destruction. They also refused to report on the election fraud that took place in Florida in 2000. They had no problem printing every single piece of manufactured garbage that the republicans threw at the Clintons during the 90s. So no thanks. Now since you keep bringing up the NYT, why don't you post the articles that deal with the so called rigged election and the attempted coup?

[nels25]

27. Fine try some other sites

I came across it in several stories, AP I believe, ABC and MSNBC try some other sources if you like.

Just as I choose to ignore some site as way to biased to be taken seriously (news max comes to mind) it appears that you do also.

As to posting them? Not worth the trouble.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. That's what I thought. n/t

[nels25]

30. Look if you are to lazy to look them up

not my fault. The info is out there and from legitimate sources.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

33. Look, if you're not capable of posting the sources you yourself brought up.

Why bring them up in the first place? Did you say you were a student of history? Are you familiar with the term "sources"?

[NoGOPZone]

34. "Not worth the trouble"

That must be one SLOW dial up connection you're using! :rofl:

[Kitty Herder]

15. What in the screamin' hell are you talking about?

Can you provide any evidence of this?

[nels25]

22. See prior posts

[Better Believe It]

9. You Need To Become A Student Of History

What makes you think he wants to imitate or as you put it, "accomplish" what Stalin and Mao did?

It seems you know very little about the history of various socialist movements in world history which refutes your claim to be some kind of student of history. If you in fact are a student of radical history, you would know that the dictatorial regimes that existed in the Soviet Union under Stalin or China under Mao had little or nothing in common with bona fide Marxist socialist organizations a movements. In fact, did you know that such organizations fought "underground" and at great risk against such regimes that called themselves "communist? Probably not!

You owe it to yourself to actually read the articles that appear in that link, keep your mind open and to become an actual student of history. So rather than attack your lame personal attack on Chavez, all I can do is urge you to start reading books and other materials not about socialism, written by anti-socialists, but instead books written by actual socialists for a change!

[nels25]

23. Actually I agree with you

I by the way have a BA in history, so I still feel I am on solid ground.

Chavez claims socialism so I am inclined to give him what he claims, and you can not argue that Communism has ever succeeded where ever has been tried it that name.

In fact if you really stop and analyze it you will find quite a few similarities between how fascist regimes actually acted and so called communist regimes conducted themselves.

I would list them but I am having trouble typing due to stroke recovery (my apologies).

You come across to me as and educated person who simply disagrees with my take on Chavez, fair enough.

However I am sure that you can agree with my above statements.

BTW: Did you know that Marx himself did not approve of how the Paris commune of 1871 conducted themselves??

[KelleyKramer]

16. Ummm, Sweden

You said:
"Me I am a student of history, what he is doing has been tried before and has yet to work."

You could not be more wrong.

Sweden is an extremely successful socialist state.

Sweden enjoys one of the highest standards of living out of all the countries in the entire world.

[nels25]

24. Okay I may have to take you at your word

however if they have a market economy to some degree than how socialist are they really??

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

26. Venezuela also has a market economy. So what's your point? n/t

[nels25]

29. Last I Heard our good man Hugo was

nationalizing or threatening to nationalize everything in site.

He has already announced collectivized farming, how about asking a Ukrainian how well that worked out?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

32. I believe the expression is everything in sight. And apparently you heard wrong.

Venezuela still has a market economy. How about posting something with some substance instead of I heard this or that or the NYT told me?

[Better Believe It]

35. That's Total Nonsense!

You wrote that Chavez "has already announced collectivized farming".

That's absolutely false! It just hasn't happened. Please post your source (a link) for that disinformation.

Do you want hard facts on Venezuela's agricultural reforms and policies?

You'll find them at this link.

http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/downloads/Land%20Reform%20in%20Venezuela.htm

And if you have any documented information to refute the above please post your info with the links.

OK?

[EFerrari]

36. The word is "sight" and that would be wrong. n/t

[JohnnyCougar]

38. It's interesting.

Opponents of Chavez really have no ammunition. They just have general feelings and impressions that are contradicted by evidence and reality.

So yes, be ready to duck lest you get smacked upside the head with reality.

[Squatch]

5. ...

:thumbsup:

[Bucky]

7. I find that most people who support Chavez don't know Venezuelans...

...and those who know Venezuelans personally aren't usually very supportive of Hugo Chavez.

Of course, as an American, I'm really under no obligation to accept any foreigners' so-called 'expertise' on their own countries.

[High Plains]

12. Really? Did you poll them?

Of course, Chavez has both fans and opponents in Venezuela. It seems to largely break down along class lines. Asking wealthy Venezuelan emigres about Venezuela under Chavez is like asking the Miami Cubans about Cuba under Castro. Sore losers.

[ieoeja]

18. Probably. But most Venezuelans I know are wealthy and PRO-Chavez.

The anti-Chavez folk just can not get it through their heads that Venezuela was almost overrun by communist rebels before Chavez took power and crushed the rebellion.

They are like Reaganites who refuse to acknowledge that Reagan got our hostages released from Iran by giving in to Iran's demands. They continue swearing it was because Iran was afeared of big, bad Reagan. The following 12 years of paying ransom to Islamic hostage takers? "Never heard of it."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. The majority of Venezuelans don't know Venezuelans?

Interesting.

[Kitty Herder]

13. At least Venezuela has a FUNCTIONING democracy.

Unlike the U.S. Ours is broken. And megalomaniac leaders tend not to willingly accept the will of their people the way Chavez has. He has proven himself to be truly dedicated to democracy. Unlike a certain true megalomaniac and dictator that I can think of.

[originalpckelly]

11. Because the most important part of democracy is a dictatorship.

Actually, I think the definition of democracy has been so radically warped by Bush spreading it, and Hugo claiming it, that maybe that really is a democracy.

[Kitty Herder]

17. You're right. The definition of democracy has become warped.

In large part because U. S. leaders call democratically elected leaders like Chavez whom they dislike dictators and then call their own rigged elections democracy.

[EFerrari]

31. Watchit! Hugo Chavez is coming for your kittehs!

lol