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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-02-08 04:29 AM
Original message
Lula suspends Brazil spy chiefs
Page last updated at 09:10 GMT, Tuesday, 2 September 2008 10:10 UK
Lula suspends Brazil spy chiefs

Brazilian intelligence chiefs have been suspended from duty amid allegations that their agency tapped the phones of top officials, politicians and judges.

President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva ordered that the agency's leadership be removed while an investigation into the reports was carried out.

The accusations surfaced in a news magazine at the weekend, prompting opposition calls for an inquiry.

Wiretaps are common in Brazil, but the latest reports have raised concerns.

Veja magazine alleged that senior figures, including President Lula's chief of staff and the head of the Senate, had had their phones bugged by the intelligence agency, known as Abin.

More:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7593265.stm
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-02-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Even the BBC is starting to write like the Associated Pukes!
"Wiretaps are common in Brazil..." Uh-huh. Some facts and figures, please. How bout numbers of Brazilian wiretaps vs. numbers of secret wiretaps ordered by Bush-Cheney (and the brazillian wiretaps they have running on our population looking for words like "democracy," "Quaker" and "protest.")

Five paragraphs down from the lede: "The agent, who was said to have provided the transcript, alleged that such illegal phone tapping was common."

Ah! It's an anonymous "agent" who "alleges...".

And the other source? "the BBC's Gary Duffy in Sao Paulo." And, although he has the decency to admit that wiretapping in Brazil "requires authorisation from a judge" (--unlike in the 'land of the free, home of the brave'), he does not provide facts and figures, citations of experts, or even a single additional example. What he does is give an impression--a fascist disinformation technique. When the BBC has to cite its own reporter as a source, and has no other source but an anonymous "agent," and no facts about how "common" wiretapping is in Brazil, the smell gets stronger.

I think it's possible we're looking at stage one of a Bush Cartel/U.S. Corpo psyops and dirty tricks campaign against Lula da Silva, who has had the balls to stand up against their psyops/dirty tricks campaign against Hugo Chavez and other leftist democrats in South America, and is a key leader of the movement toward a South American "Common Market" (not including the U.S.). There was also a huge oil find in Brazil, recently. Wherever there is oil, there are LIES, LIES and more LIES about the leaders who control it, and even--or especially--if they are provably elected democratic, leftist leaders running good, social justice governments.

Rafael Correa, president of Ecuador (member of OPEC, lots of oil; leftist, pro-people government), just had to purge the U.S. agents from his military. Lulu may have to do the same to the Bushbot moles in his government intel agency, if they are setting up shit like this, which I suspect is the case.

Whenever fascists--like Lulu's opposition in the legislature--use the word "concern" (or Corpo reporters use it for them, i.e. "the latest reports have raised concerns"), you can be fairly certain that they are speaking on cue, from a script given them by the perps of whatever psyops/disinformation sting is in progress. And when they use the word "democracy" (i.e., "Some opposition politicians ... " said that "the alleged spying was an attack on Brazil's democracy"), alarm bells should go off in our heads. Fascists don't give a fuck about wiretapping or democracy. They are would-be tyrants, oppressors, and torturers and murderers of leftists, the poor, the innocent and the helpless, as they have proven time and again in South America, and here. Their object is power and wealth. They are ruthless. They are without scruples. And, like here, they follow Rovian scripts.

When fascist fuckwads use the word "democracy," look out, because another Corpo resource war could well be what comes next.

This looks like the preliminary psyops: The sullying of the leaders who have control of the oil--and, in the case of South America, the very democratic, social justice-minded, and peace-minded leaders. This is a harder lie for the Bushwhacks to sell. They no doubt have many different black ops in progress to accomplish it. They started with Chavez; now they are extending to all the other leftist leaders who back Chavez in their common goals of real democracy and self-determination for Latin America.

Another Bushfuck method is "divide and conquer"--create confusion, accusations, civil conflct, civil war. There are a lot of oddities in this story, including why the head of the Supreme Court was having long phone conversations with the rightwing opposition (the BBC doesn't report on the content of the wiretap), and that Lulu's chief aide was a target of wiretapping, with the rightwing opposition then huffing and puffing about their "concern" for Brazil's "democracy." As happens here, these same self-righteous, hypocritical assholes are probably getting and using the wiretap reports for political or monetary gain. And the cover story is that it is "common" in Brazil. In any case, it is causing a ruckus, and seems aimed at making Lulu's administration look bad--as well as creating a climate of suspicion and finger-pointing, another Bushite specialty. Meanwhile, millions go hungry, and the social justice governments of South America are further distracted and hampered in their efforts to use their country's resources for the poor.

After the big recent oil find in Brazil, Lulu pledged to use the profits for education. Expect more disruption of his government and a more intense slander campaign.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-02-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Lula suspended them didn't he??
I think you will find that Latin Americans are more suspect of their governments than you are if you ever took the opportunity to visit. Conditions and corruption don't simply change based on the political ideology of those in office.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-02-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. No one can be more suspect of my government than I am. I suspect them
(or suspect a cabal within their ranks) of 9/11. I suspect them of stealing three straight elections, most recently with Bushite Corpo-controlled 'TRADE SECRET' code voting machines, with virtually no audit/recount controls (fast-tracked all over this land during the 2002 to 2004 period). I suspect that a good portion of our Democratic Party leadership is in collusion on the loss of vote counting transparency. And I don't suspect, I know for a fact, that no person holding public office in the U.S. today can prove that he or she was actually elected (with the exception of New York, which has held out against e-voting).

My fascist government teaches me what to look for in other countries' government/political systems--key requirements of democracy that our fascist Corpos have targeted and have damaged or entirely destroyed here--transparent vote counting, encouraging maximum citizen participation, wide spectrum political discussion, the ability of poor people to run for office, counter-measures to Corpo monopoly of the 'news,' empowerment "from below" (the people set the agenda, leaders emerge from the grass roots), a decent justice system in general and in particular as to handling election issues, government open to and requests international election monitoring, etc.

The leftist democracies of South America have all of these components of a viable, working democracy, and where they are lacking, they are aimed in the right direction--trying to correct problems, unlike our government, which is working overtime to make bad problems worse.

Even with solid achievements in the fundamentals of democracy, all governments should be closely scrutinized, of course, first of all by their own people, and secondly by people who also live in countries which have well-developed democratic institutions. It seems to me that people who live in fascist/Corpo states like the U.S. ought to keep their traps shut as to criticizing countries that have transparent vote counting, and as to calling their transparently elected, democratic leaders "dictators," etc.--because we have nothing to offer those countries and their voters that would be helpful. Clean up our disaster first, then we can critize.

And that goes for corruption as well. At least one billion dollars of our tax money has gone missing in Iraq, and nobody in our government seems to give a goddamn. The corruption here--everywhere you look, in every sphere touched by Bushites or Corpos, on every issue--is colossal, unprecedented, mind-boggling. Further, the worst corruption--the big corruption, and the corruption tied to torture, murder and massive oppression--here, and in South America, is inevitably perpetrated by the rightwing. So, no, I do not agree with your precept that, "Conditions and corruption don't simply change based on the political ideology of those in office." In fact, as to massive theft--the kind that destroys countries, the kind that needs torture, murder and oppression to be accomplished--you can pretty much rely on the rightwing to be many orders of magnitude worse than leftwing governments. Indeed, the difference is like night and day.

This is also true of "conditions"--the transparency of elections and government, the openness to citizen scrutiny, the fairness of the justice system, the freedom to protest and "petition the government," etc. All of these kinds of conditions--which militate against corruption, especially against massive, nation-killing corruption--are not just better under leftist governments, leftist leaders advocate for them, and insist on them, and rightwing governments, whenever they gain power, immediately start with the secrecy--shutting down scrutiny of their actions, controlling the media, using the police to spy on and brutalize the opposition, and twisting the justice system to favor their power and to favor the rich.

Corruption cannot be excised from government overnight, with a change from right to left. But throwing rightwing politicians out of government is a good start. I am speaking here of a limited window of time, approximately the last decade, to now, in the U.S. and South America. The historical picture is not so clear here, although it is in South America (the right = massive corruption). The only true leftwing government we have ever had--that of FDR, which lasted for four terms--was also the least corrupt. So length of time in office doesn't matter. The honesty, decency and good will of the people running the government is a key factor, along with public vigilance. Eisenhower was moderate-right, and ran a very clean government. LBJ, on the other hand, was leftist is some respects, but mega-corrupt in others (slaughtering 2 million people in Southeast Asia, before it was over, as a war profiteer venture). The Soviets were considered leftists (far leftists--communists), and ran a corrupt government in which party members got luxuries while others suffered (with periods of mass murder and other horrors). The dream of a country owned by the people pretty much died with them (probably more because Russia had no experience of democracy whatsoever, prior to the revolution, and immediately fell into dictatorial (tsarist) style communism, which infected the entire international movement--and not so much because economic equality is such a bad idea).

In any case, a mixed picture. People-oriented governments are not necessarily clean governments--although if you gave me a choice between "Tamany Hall" (the poor get jobs) and, say, the Bush junta (the poor get shafted), I probably don't have to tell you which kind of corruption I would prefer. But the current picture in the U.S., and both the historical picture and the recent/current picture in South America, is as plain as it can be: the right is corrupt beyond belief and anti-democratic; the left is pro-democracy and also gives people better reasons to work in government than greed, graft and "living off the oil" (as the rightwing elite has done). The people working for Chavez and Morales and Correa and other leftist leaders are highly motivated about making government work for everybody, and realizing the Bolivarian dream of a "United States of South America." They are like New Dealers. And here, people who work for Obama want to clean up the colossal stinking mess that the Bushites (and collusive Democrats) have made of our government. The rightwing is excessively corrupt; the left has to clean it up.

And it matters which of these gains power--right vs. left--in both places, there and here. It is only Bushites who would like us to think that corruption is everywhere, and linked to neither right nor left. Every leftist government elected in Latin America over the last half decade was elected in part because of excessive corruption on the right--both ordinary graft and major theft and collusion with Corpos. Whether they can solve the problem or not--after decades of entrenched rightwing power and consequent massive poverty--it is at least part of their mandate, as it is with Obama.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-02-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That article reeks from the very first. Absolutely. Very odd slant for an article you would expect
to be a lot more on the level. It's dripping with insinuation. It may as well have been written in the basement of the White House by Otto Reich, like the Reagan era, then Bush propaganda has been.

Lula will never really be forgiven for having cast his lots with the rest of South America. He has undoubtedly been the target of intensified destabilization efforts once he started firing up Brazil's defense structure. They announced last week their intentions to add a nuclear sub to their stock.

He looks cute and cuddly like a panda bear, doesn't he? I hope behind that nearly saintly appearance beats the heart of someone who absolutely can't be bullied.

Peace Patriot, you have covered this article perfectly. You do see things quickly which come far more slowly to the rest of us, if they come at all! Thank you for taking the time to comment.

We can all form our own conclusions after opening ourselves to really studying the information when it's available. What you say resonnates CLEARLY. When things ring through all the way, when there's contact, it leaves very little room for doubt. It's validation.
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