Lula discusses economic crisis with 'lucid' Fidel Castro

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Agence France-Presse

Lula discusses economic crisis with 'lucid' Fidel Castro
November 1, 2008, 1:25 pm

HAVANA (AFP) - Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said that he agreed "100 percent" with former Cuban leader Fidel Castro on the responsibility of rich countries for the world economic crisis after a two-hour meeting with him in Havana.

"I spoke with Fidel about the crisis and there is 100 percent agreement on the major responsibility of rich countries," Lula said at the airport before leaving Cuba after a brief visit on Friday.

"President Lula said that Fidel was very lucid and active," added a spokesman traveling with the Brazilian leader.

The meeting took place in an undisclosed location. The ailing 82-year-old Communist revolutionary leader has not been seen in public since a health crisis in July 2006.




Read more: http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/5116159/lula-discusses-economic-crisis-lucid-fidel-castro/

---

This is posted for the benefit of the occassional loon who feels driven to share his insight that Fidel Castro is dead.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Brazil inks deal to hunt for, produce oil in Cuba
By ANNE-MARIE GARCIA – 5 hours ago

~snip~
Silva left Cuba on Friday afternoon, but told reporters at the airport that he met for two hours with Fidel Castro, 82 and ailing, who has not been seen in public since undergoing emergency intestinal surgery in July 2006.

"I'm leaving happy having seen Fidel," he said.

In comments released later by the Brazilian government, Silva said he thought the older Castro brother "is of an extraordinary mind, as lucid as he ever was."

Fidel Castro called the meeting "friendly and respectful" in an essay published online Friday night by Cuban state media.

Cuba's government did not immediately release images of the encounter.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gMkZ61LbSsq_6tSGurez-Z5mEHtAD945SPFO0

Photos taken earlier this year when Lula da Silva visited Fidel Castro:





Lula da Silva jokingly takes a photo of Fidel Castro to prove he's alive, apparently!

[cboy4]

1. Judi, when do you predict Castro is going to croak?

It just can't come a minute too soon.


on edit, typo on your name

[roody]

10. Did you know that we are all going to die?

Did you know that none of us know when?

[IndianaGreen]

11. Let's see... Fidel opposed apartheid while the US Christian Right supported it

One of our Apostles of Intolerance (Jerry Falwell) called Bishop Desmond Tutu a phony. Tutu won the Nobel Peace Prize and he considers Fidel a personal friend.

I realize the Miami Cubans are as reactionary as the Palin crowd, and they are just itching to return to Cuba to impose their fascist social and economic programs, including repealing abortion rights and gay rights.

But then we have those in the DU community that support Republican rightwing policies, as long as they are in the disguise of Cuban exile politics.

[Billy Burnett]

49. Some seem to hate these two as much as Cheney does.

Terr-ist commies. Sceery and Baaaaad.







Of course there's lot's of reasons for RWnutz to hate Tutu and Castro.





:crazy:

[DutchLiberal]

89. You might want to check the status of human rights, freedom of the press etc. in Cuba...

You might also want to check what happens with dissidents in Cuba. Not a nice place to live. Can't vote, can't speak your mind.

Just because the RW hates him, is no reason for ANY sane liberal to adore him. Castro was/is what he was/is: a dictator, and a brutal one. I know he looks very friendly and cuddly and his association with the 'revolution' is very romantic, but that doesn't change the fact that Cubans have suffered gravely under him.

Frankly, I don't know why Mandela and Tutu, who lived through dictatorship and who got imprisoned for speaking their mind (at least Mandela did) would embrace a dictator who works with the same policies.

[Judi Lynn]

92. Become a candle in the night: provide some links testifying to Fidel Castro's great brutality.

The U.S. didn't seem to mind one bit whatsoever when the bloody Cuban dictator, Fulgencio Batista, ran death squads, like Masferrer's Tigers, picking up dissidents, torturing them, and leaving them all over the island to provoke fear of his government.

Why the hell do you imagine huge numbers of Cubans poured into the streets to welcome the revolutionaries when Batista left, taking with him the contents of the Cuban treasury? Were they rushing out to beg for mercy?

Spend some time doing legitimate research first. Come to grips with the facts.

By the way, why didn't we hear you raving about the filthy scum Islam Karimov, Bush's Uzbekistanian puppet who BOILS HIS POLITICAL PRISONERS ALIVE? Bush couldn't wait to haul his people out to suck up to him. Tons of photos. Look up Islam Karimov + George Bush.

We'll be looking forward to see your scholarly information on Fidel Castro's horrifying great brutality, and how it is he's beloved all over Latin America.

[Judi Lynn]

12. Croak, you say?

Wouldn't know about that. You probably should consult a physic. psychic.

http://www.tvgasm.com.nyud.net:8090/shows/images/rockoflove/season1/Gypsy%20fortune%20teller.jpg

Either that, or one of the drooling idiot mass murdering sociopaths like Orlando Bosch, Luis Posada Carriles, or any number of others still deteriorating the quality of life in Miami, Florida.

[cboy4]

13. Well regardeless .. the second Fidel is six feet under,

things should only get better for the brainwashed Cuban people.

[Judi Lynn]

14. You're referring to the Fidel Castro Luis Inacio Lula da Silva just said seems to be doing o.k.?

He's six feet under WHAT?

[roody]

27. Looks like you are brainwashed. Have you been to Cuba?

[cboy4]

30. That's a very open-ended statement. It doesn't take a brain

surgeon to figure out there's a connection between the nearly half a century boycott and a certain dictator named Fidel Castro.

Perhaps you should check yourself to see who's been brainwashed into thinking he's such a swell guy.

[roody]

33. Fidel resigned as president 1 or two years ago.

[cboy4]

34. Oh that's right. His brother is in control now. Why Fidel

is completely out of the picture.

He has no say, no authority, no influence what-so-ever.

LOL!! hahaha

Suuuuure.

[Billy Burnett]

43. Lots o' blather and uninformed speculation, as usual.

FYI, in Cuba Fidel Castro is their primary living revolutionary war hero. As in most countries, the historic and living revolutionary heroes are revered.

He is revered by most Cubans for the heroic efforts and front line command that he and the montañeses undertook, not only in regards to the Revolution that freed them from the US shackles of hegimony, but also in his spectacular and successful defense against an armed invasion engineered and supported by the USA.

Prior to the 1959 Cuban Revolution life in Cuba was awful for the vast majority of the citizenry.

Cubans now have the capacity to run their own country, and have done so quite well upon observation and comparison with other Lat Am and Caribbean nations, thanks to the heroism of the Castro brothers and the revolutionary cohorts.

To claim that this is not so is staking claim to ignorance of how Cubans in Cuba really feel.

I suppose that this is one reason the US government dictates that Americans can't freely travel to Cuba. They might learn how real Cubans actually feel, and how they actually run their country.

[cboy4]

44. I don't blame them for loving the Castro brothers.

Why those are some sweet 1954 rides they're zipping around town in.



Of course the Cuban people would tell me they love Castro. It's all they know.

Just like if I went to North Korea, everyone would tell me how great that country and its leader are.

LOL

[Billy Burnett]

47. "It's all they know."

What an ignorant and repugnantly bigoted anti Cuban statement.

Only from an information vacuum could one make that disgusting comment about Cubans.

Haven't been around much, have you?

- -

The only reason Americans think that the only cars in Cuba are old US cars is because they haven't been there - not allowed by dictate of the US gov.







Found these pix in about 15 seconds.

You might want to take time and have someone qualified show you how to use 'the Google'.

[Ghost Dog]

68. Yes. The old American cars are quite rare now in Cuba.

The 'seventies Russian vehicles are dying out, too.

Most new (fuel-efficient) cars are from Asia and some from Europe.

[Eryemil]

58. I find your posts condescending and insulting

You claim to understand the realities of the struggle of the Cuban people yet you really have no clue.

[cboy4]

66. I do know the Cuban people are brainwashed and

pumped full of propaganda.

I also know they deserve better.

Sorry you're insulted by my compassion.

[Eryemil]

67. Well this Cuban has only one thing to say to you...

[cboy4]

71. And what's that Eryemil?

Are you going to write about how wonderful things are under the "leadership" (wink, wink) of Fidel Castro?

Or were you just going to take the weak way out and call me a name?

[Eryemil]

72. I've said my piece in this thread....

...and you should do well to read all I've written. I think I've made it clear enough that you do not speak for my people.

That aside, your arrogant and patronizing demeanor has done very little to prove that you care about the Cuban people at all. I have family in the island still, sisters and brothers. They are the ones I speak for and who I am concerned about. Who moves your tongue?

[cboy4]

74. In fact, things are so great in Cuba, why you've decided to

move to the evil United States.

Accusing me of not caring for people is very cowardly as even you can probably figure out.

That's what "moves" my tongue.

No wait, it's the fact I believe Fidel Castro is a scum bag that moves my tongue.

Scum with a capital "S"

[Eryemil]

79. You've not read anything I've written, have you? I am done with you.

[LanternWaste]

73. Much as are we.

"I do know the Cuban people are brainwashed and pumped full of propaganda."

Much as are we. Some recognize it for what it is, others don't. Sometimes it's state-sponsored, other times it's commercially sponsored. Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

[Ken Burch]

52. If this is about Cuba's treatment of gays, they've changed that.

Raul Castro's own daughter has been an activist for rights for the Cuban LGBT community and a lot of the repression they faced has vanished.

And while it's true that they need more political rights, Cuba has nothing to gain from privatization or the loss of free health care and education, all of which the US and the Miami exiles will insist on if they ever get the chance.

It's time to admit that Cuba is just another country and accept that it has the right to be different from what the Miami people want.

And the U.S. isn't entitled to judge other countries on how they treat gay people, which you should know given your own involvement.

[cboy4]

54. What the hell?!? Where did I say my dislike of Castro has

a thing to do with how gay people are treated?

And where did I say I'm in favor of the economic boycott continuing .. let alone specifically because of how they treat gay people? :eyes:

[Ken Burch]

60. You didn't say either of those things. I made an assumption

given that the past treatment of Cuban gays has been a huge issue. And I didn't actually say anything about whether you supported the embargo or not. Your comments about wishing for Fidel's death would naturally cause a lot of people to deduce that you were taking a right-wing exile restorationist position on Cuba.

My apologies if my inference on your views was faulty.

For myself, I wish the Cuban Revolution had developed differently, had been more democratic and less repressive. Despite this, I feel that neither I nor any other U.S. citizen has any moral authority to judge Cuba, given the history of what our country has done there and given the fact that our leaders are still obsessed with putting the old order back in power on that island("free elections" is just code for right-wing takeover through what Chomsky and Hermann would call a "demonstration election".

BTW, you are aware of the fact that Fidel is retired and in poor health and that Raul is running things now, aren't you? So technically, while Fidel was a dictator in the past(and its arguable that history may have forced him to be)he's just a retiree now.

[cboy4]

64. Actually, I don't wish for Castro to kick the bucket.....my position

is I feel the Cuban people would be better off if it happened sooner than later.

It's cool if you want to say I side with the right-wingers, even thought that's something else you wrote that is faulty.

It's a moderate position Ken.

Finally, I don't believe that Raul is "running things right now."

[Ken Burch]

75. Look, it's kind of hairsplitting between saying "I wish Fidel was dead"

And saying "the Cuban people would be better off if it happened sooner rather than later". What's the difference, really?

If you're not supporting the restoration of the old order in Cuba, that's relief, although you could hardly blame me for coming to that conclusion from the tone of your posts. Besides, you're a white Anglo from what would have to be an upper middle class background who lives in a rich neighborhood in California, so what's it to you what Cuba does anyway?

Not sure what you think a "moderate" position is. It seems pretty clear to me that once the exiles come back, the place would be forced to be totally and permanently right wing, with enforcement by the U.S. Marines. Why do you trust the intentions of people who are rich, white and live in Miami? Remember, these are the people whose treatment of the majority of the Cuban people caused the Revolution in the first place.

And is there a reason that you can't accept that the people of Cuba might actually, of their own volition, think they're better off under the Revolution than they were before? Who are you to say that they can't actually be trusted to mean what they say?
Teensy bit presumptuous of you, methinks.

And I regard my own position as moderate on this: I want the restoration of free speech and independent(not corporate)media. I want an end to the block committees. But I don't want capitalism, since history proves market values can never have a human face in Cuba.

[EFerrari]

17. That's just beneath you.

I someday hope to be as lucid as Castro has been most of his life.

[cboy4]

22. I care far more about the people of Cuba than I do about

Fidel Castro.

Sorry, I just have no feelings for the guy because I believe once he's gone, things will improve.

Sounds cruel I know, but I'm not going to lie.

[IndianaGreen]

25. And you think that the pro-life, anti-Semitic, and anti-gay Miami Cubans are the answer?

If anyone should be dead, it should be them.

[roody]

28. That's an interesting belief. The people of Cuba may

not share it with you. Why don't you go and see for yourself? It is very easy. Get a flight from Canada or Mexico.

[cboy4]

29. Gee roody....why do you think it might be that the people of

Cuba may not share that belief with me?

It couldn't possible have to do with them being surrounded by propaganda and in a position of Castro being the only ruler they've ever known .. now could it?

So that's a silly recommendation on your part.

It's like telling me to go to the Budweiser plant and seeing whether the workers support Coors instead. What do you think they're going to say?

[roody]

32. Don't you want to see for yourself how miserable they are?

I suggest a DU meetup in Cuba late December/early Jan.

[cboy4]

35. That would be fun, if not for the fact you and some of the

other Fidel supporters in this threat would arrange for my kinnapping.

Having seen photos, Cuba looks beautiful.

Fidel Castro? Not so much.

[Eryemil]

36. 'Miserable' is a spectrum

My family, after all, left the island because of the economic hardships. Still, I'd much rather be back in Cuba than in Haiti, a democracy by all accounts.
Yes, my people are hungry and struggling but they are also have access to free education and medical treatment. It is easy to blame their problems on the Cuban government until you compare the situation with other poor nations.

[blindpig]

76. It works like this:

Anything negative having to do with a socialists society is the fault of socialism. Anything negative in a capitalist society is the fault of anything but the capitalist system.

History, culture, external factors, these are of no account. This is also true of the Soviet Union. A hundred years of red-baiting and this kind of dogmatic ignorance is what ya get.

I was lucky to make a short visit, not in the tourists venues but in the countryside. I feel that Cuba could be the hope of humankind, getting the weight of US aggression off of it's back would go far to accomplishing that hope. Which is, of course, the primary reason for US aggression. Despite their rote, capitalist hate competition.

[Billy Burnett]

77. I most certainly agree with your assessment of Cuba.

:toast:

I have said here and elsewhere many times that we all could learn a lot from Cuba(ns). I'm pretty sure this is the prime motivation behind the US gov travel ban on Americans.

It's just too bad that some seem to feel so vested in their hatefest against Cuba that even the physics of osmosis don't work.

[Judi Lynn]

2. Reuters: Brazil's Petrobras to search for oil offshore Cuba

Brazil's Petrobras to search for oil offshore Cuba
Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:07pm EDT

By Rosa Tania Valdes

HAVANA, Oct 31 (Reuters) - Brazil's state-owned oil company Petrobras (PETR4.SA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) signed an agreement on Friday to explore for oil in Cuba's untapped offshore fields, which Cuban energy officials say may hold over 20 billion barrels of reserves.

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and Cuban President Raul Castro attended the signing ceremony and both expressed confidence that plenty of oil will be found.

"God can't be so unjust that we won't find anything," Castro said.

"Don't worry, Raul," Lula told him. "We're going to find it here and we're going to transform it into energy." Petrobras is one of the world's top offshore oil producers.

~snip~
The signing ceremony was part of a quick visit by Lula, who also met with former Cuban leader Fidel Castro for a two-hour conversation in which he said the ailing 82-year-old was "totally lucid."

"I told Fidel that when I arrived to visit him, he looked down and after half an hour of conversation it seemed that the sick one was me," he said of Castro, who has not been seen in public since undergoing intestinal surgery in July 2006.

More:
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN3136456020081101?rpc=401&

[fla nocount]

3. WTF, Adidas wear, flashing the peace sign,

these guys are pretending to be regular folks.

[dipsydoodle]

7. If you were his age

you'd dress for comfort too. It's easy for him to get Adidas anyway - the EU is happy to sell to Cuba unlike dumbfuck America.

[fla nocount]

23. Preaching to the choir there Edward, I hope you realize that.

Castro is a hero and it looks like he might live long enough to be vindicated. This thing he fought, the U.S., CIA and Baptistas, and their values, are down around our heads as we blog.

If Fidel's fast ball had just been a few mph's faster he would have had a career with the Senator's and there would have never been a missile crises,

http://www.jamescampion.com/chekcuba.html

Oh yes, he knows us, we're only 70 miles away and we're the society he hoped to emulate and attain. Too bad about the Kennedy's who supported him, too bad about the strangle hold the fascists hold on democracy which is really just a philosophy of choice of economic systems, there's a choice of systems and we get to vote on it, that's what democracy is, really, voting on a choice.

Peace friend.

[Ken Burch]

87. Fidel had major abdominal surgery and probably has chronic pain from post-operative flesh adhesions

(That's where parts of your body that weren't previously attached to each other grow together due to having been moved during surgery.)

Most likely, it's simply too painful for Fidel to wear regular clothes.

It's not about "pretending to be regular folks". It's about chronic physical discomfort.

[Greyhound]

4. At last, we now know why you've never seen Fidel and Willie Nelson together...

Hair extensions, the commie version of Clark Kent's glasses?
:rofl:

[Judi Lynn]

15. Oh, I FINALLY realized what you were saying. It's the photo snapped by Lula!

Wow, now I see it.

Keep in mind, the old guy has been REALLY, REALLY sick. Willie Nelson has been incapacitated at times in OTHER ways!

http://i9.photobucket.com.nyud.net:8090/albums/a99/kopavi/nelson.gif http://www.njjewishnews.com.nyud.net:8090/njjn.com/022808/njFewExpectBigCASTRO.jpg http://1.music.bigpond-images.com.nyud.net:8090/images/AlbumCoverArt/11/XXL/Legend-The-Best-Of-Willie-Nelson.jpg

[dipsydoodle]

38. Both legends in their own lifetimes

unlike Palin who's just a legend in her own lunchtime.

Well chosen pics those. I didn't grasp the significance either - before your reply that is.

[Greyhound]

5. Server reset, n/t

[Ghost Dog]

6. Here is Fidel's latest (brief) essay

(as translated):

The Worst Variant

TODAY I read that the U.S. Federal Reserve had opened a new line of credit for the central banks of Mexico, Brazil, South Korea and Singapore.

The same report claimed that similar credits have been issued to the central banks of Australia, Canada, Denmark, the United Kingdom, Japan, New Zealand, Switzerland and the European Central Bank.

Based on these agreements, the central banks will receive funds in exchange for hard currency reserves from these countries, which have sustained considerable losses due to the financial and trade crisis.

This consolidates the economic power of the U.S. currency, a privilege granted at Bretton Woods.

The International Monetary Fund, which is the same dog with a different collar, has announced the injection of large sums of money into its Eastern European clients. Hungary will be receiving the equivalent of 20 billion euros, a large part of which are dollars from the United States. Their machines keep printing bills and the IMF keeps granting its leonine loans.

For its part, the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) stated in Geneva yesterday that, at the current rate of spending, by the year 2030, humanity will need the resources of two planets to maintain its lifestyle.

The WWF is a serious institution. There is no need to be a University graduate in Mathematics, Economics or Political Science to understand what this means. It is the worst variant. Developed capitalism hopes to continue plundering the world as if the world were still able to sustain it.

http://granma.cu/ingles/2008/octubre/vier31/Reflections-30oct.html (Spanish originals at site)

See also the longer essay "Economic Illiteracy" from Monday Oct 27: http://granma.cu/ingles/2008/octubre/lun27/reflexiones.html

[Judi Lynn]

16. Glad to see both articles. Sounds like the guy does a whole lot more reading that some pResidents

we have had, doesn't it?

From what I've heard for many years, he has ALWAYS had an insational thirst for information from everywhere, on almost any subject. Intelligence is good in a leader, isn't it?

On edit:
Thanks for providing the links. Excellent material.

[Peace Patriot]

8. Are the Associated Pukes now going to write: "Lula da Silva, friend of Fidel Castro..."?

Seems like Fidel Castro has more than one friend in the world, which means that global corporate predator toady 'news' reporters, like the Associated Pukes, have one less literary tool for demonizing "Hugo Chavez, self-styled leftist and friend of Fidel Castro...". In fact, Hugo Chavez has more friends in the world than Fidel Castro. Funny how they never mention capitalists like Lulu, who recently said, of Chavez: "They can invent all kinds of things to criticize Chavez, but not on democracy." Or Nestor Kirchner of Argentina, who, when the Bushwhacks sent word to the south that they must "isolate Chavez," replied, "But he's my brother!"

Indeed, the entire picture of South America, drawn by the Associated Pukes and brethren, is totally wrong, as it turns out. These leaders are all friends with each other, and are collectively resisting and laughing at the assholes running the U.S., the World Bank and the IMF. When Fernando Lugo, the beloved "bishop of the poor," was elected president of Paraguay this year--the latest of many leftist victories--Evo Morales, the first indigenous president of Bolivia, sent him this message: "Welcome to the Axis of Evil."

Aside from Cuba (which, in my opinion, is more like a benevolent monarchy than anything else), the peoples of South America get leaders who are actually elected (unlike our own) in transparent elections (whas dat?), and enjoy boffo approval ratings (Morales nearly 70%, Chavez 75%, Correa in Ecuador 80%, Lugo in Paraguay 90%!), because, hey, people voted for them (unlike here--Bush 20%, Democratic Congress 10%! --yup, the Democrats are also elected by Diebold & brethren).

What's. Wrong. With. This. Picture?

Now the Associated Pukes are saying: "It's getting closer. It's tightening. McToady and Ms. To-Nowhere could win, could win, could win, COULD WIN!" - scaring the bajeebers out of everybody. But not in South America. They long ago said, "Who cares?" and formed their own Common Market, sans the U.S.

Is there something these AP assholes haven't been telling us?

[jwirr]

9. South and Central America are in the process of building a regional

unity that will both give them economic power and security as regards the predators of the world - mostly US corporations with the help of IMF and the World Bank. Emmanuel Todd in "After the Empire: The Breakdown if the America Order" outlines the convergence of these interests in various regions to form new world powers that eliminate the idea of empire. We are seeing this happen in Asia, EU, South & Central America and hopefully Africa in the near future. The ME is a harder nut to crack because although they all share common interests they do not seem to have any form of unity.

[EFerrari]

18. Thank you for the great pictures, Judi Lynn.

It's been an amazing 50 years.

[Judi Lynn]

19. Lula really seems to like him, doesn't he? I was surprised to see the photos,

as I never imagined a national President just might take his own camera with him! Great idea. What a scrap book HE'D have, huh?

Hope the hard work done in all these countries under the worst of circumstances will finally pay off in the NEXT 50 years.

[EFerrari]

20. Me, too. Jack Kennedy was putting out feelers to Castro

before he was murdered. That's probably one reason why he was killed.

I remember, as a very little girl, my family around the kitchen table listening to news of the revolution on the radio.

May the next fifty be so much more peaceful and productive.

[Judi Lynn]

21. Heard only in the last few years about that part of Kennedy's work, learning he sent an emmissary,

Richard Goodwin to hold a secret discussion with Che Guvara, the notes of which have been declassified. Heard Kennedy expressed his intention to bring Cuba into "closer orbit" with the United States. All of this has been completely buried all this time.

Knowing he was involved in making these inroads in negotiating with Cuba REALLY throws a new light on that murder, by all means. Sure wish it wasn't so easy to fool the very public which pays the salaries of these clowns who conceal our own real history from us!

I think the photo of this man sitting on the lamp pole during the celebration of the overthrow of Batista, taken by the guy who got that wonderful Che Guevara photo, Alberto Korda, is epic:http://www.fcif.net.nyud.net:8090/imagenes/gal/Korda/El%20Quijote%20de%20la%20farola.1.2.jpg

El Quijote de la farola

http://bp1.blogger.com.nyud.net:8090/_YU5mPEjPHcQ/RoaZGtWTLiI/AAAAAAAABBE/jzr3TQmSVSk/s320/Cuba+1962.jpg

A protector of the Revolution. Photo by Alberto Korda, 1962.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com.nyud.net:8090/2336/2076765071_79746f1c01_o.gif

La Nina de la Muneca de Palo, 1959



Photographer who never took a cent for
the photo of Che Guevara, Alberto Korda

[ronnie624]

37. Excellent photos.

Note the steely determination in the eyes of the 'protector of the Revolution'.

A doofus upstairs believes the only thing that enthralls Cubans to the Revolution is propaganda, as if the brutalities of a corporate sponsored dictatorship in living memory couldn't possibly be a motivating factor. Bizarre.

[Judi Lynn]

70. That steadfast look struck home with me, too. It's a photo which will stick in your mind.

There is something REALLY striking about Alberto Korda's photos of the Cuban revolution. The faces are focused, idealistic, intense, determined: deeper, more powerful people operating from a clear sense of belief. They are CONCERNED, they are personally committed faces, clearly involved in their actions.

It's a kind of passion, of watchfulness, consciousness you just don't see among people caught up in the service of their egos.

Yep, I know what you mean about people in the grip of national chauvinism. They are NEVER in touch with the reality of the countries and the people and their history when they attempt to tell us how those countries need a good whacking, without even any awareness they've been taking a hard whacking for years from the sadists right here!

God help them if they EVER break open a book, or start doing any research on what hell has been unleashed in Latin America and the Caribbean while they reveled in deep, hopeless, idiotic ignorance, snapping up propaganda bits, rumors, whoppers being tossed to them by people who really DON'T WANT the American public knowing what they're up to, on the tax dollars of the very people they deliberately deceive.

Batista used death squads, his government had people picked up off the streets, tortured, often killed and thrown out in town, or hung from light-poles, or even quartered and hung in trees, as they did in Santiago de Chile, then turned the fire hoses on the mothers, dressed in black, carrying signs saying "Batista murdered our sons," when they attempted to march through the city, and speak with the American ambassador about what had happened to their sons.

He wrote about that day and his surprise seeing the Batista police doing this.

This information has been around for ages. Apparently, if it wasn't discussed on Fascist News, or commonly discussed by right-wing reactionaries, some people don't know it has ever happened!

[MellowDem]

24. It's hard to respect a dictator

Sure, he's a nicer dictator than most, but he is most definitely not presiding over a democracy.

[Judi Lynn]

26. He's not presiding over anything, as you should read a couple of years ago.

How many people is your right-wing going to have to slaughter before some of them get illuminated and realize THIS is not a magical system, and monsters find no problem at all clawing their way right to the Presidency, where they have tormented, tortured, and slaughtered unconscionable numbers of people in this suffering world.

Just think of how wise you'll sound after you spend some time actually LEARNING about the subjects you're attempting to discuss.

[MellowDem]

39. Accusations already?

Cuba is not a democracy, that makes me right-wing? I never said that the US does not have its own problems, but really, the OP was about Cuba and Castro. No reason to freak out. I think a lot of what Cuba does with its social programs is great and worthy of imitation. I'm just talking about its political system, not its economics (which definitely includes capitalism).

If you want to argue Cuba is an open democracy with fair elections, whatever. Either you are drinking the Kool-Aid or think that Castro's progressive social programs make up for his dictatorship. I do not.

[ronnie624]

41. Often, the price for retaining one's dignity and sovereignty can seem high.

Most people in the world, perhaps yourself included, will accept a certain degree authoritarianism in exchange for security and autonomy (the opinions of our national founders notwithstanding). Western democracies became virtual dictatorships during both world wars, and a flurry of authoritarian legislation was passed in the U.S. and elsewhere following the 9/11 attacks. Imagine if our national independence were truly threatened by a powerful foreign military force as Cuba has been for the last 48 years.

The most important aspect of the Cuban system, is that it is administered by Cubans, not by a foreign dictatorship, the purpose of which was to extract resources for corporate profits. Even a cursory examination of historical facts by someone with genuine interest, should reveal that Cubans are far better off now than before the Revolution. Just look at all the other Latin American countries that were subjected to the tender mercies of U.S. foreign policy.

[MellowDem]

46. Not entirely accurate, and a bad excuse

Cuba's national security and autonomy has not been under threat for a couple decades now, not the last 48 years. And you say that the most important aspect of the Cuban system is that it is administered by a Cuban dictator, instead of a foreign one? I realize Cubans are far better off now than before, but if you want to use that as a reason to keep them under a dictatorship, that is disgusting. You don't think the Cuban people are capable of democracy?

And, under your system of "a certain degree of authoritarianism", you are leaving a lot to chance. Sure, you can have the generous and wise king who looks after his people, or you can get the asshole who wants to spend lavishly on himself and cow the people with fear. That's the chance you take when your current authoritarian dies and a new one has to step in. It is always a dilemma and huge crisis, often one that leads to widespread suffering and civil war... unless you keep it in the family, like good ol' Revolutionary Castro is doing. Ironic that such a revolutionist is now using a hereditary system of government, one of the most ancient, to pass on power.

Cuba is not a democracy, and there is NO reason it should not be. Cuba is not under any threat anymore, it's just a bunch of bullshit to keep the Castro family in power. You know, with your line of reasoning, you should think Bush should suspend democracy since the 9/11 attacks. After all, we're in a war on terror, and this is no time to have such "luxuries" as democracy.

[ronnie624]

63. "If you want to use that as a reason to keep them under a dictatorship"??

I know you did not see such an expression in any post of mine. That statement relates to nothing I have said and has no meaning whatever except to deliberately miss characterize my position. Your "disgust" is misplaced. I said that governments of nations under threat tend to become more authoritarian, and as an example I cited legislation enacted after the 9/11 attacks, such as the USA patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act. I expressed no desire to see Cuba under dictatorship and you know it. My opinion is that U.S. foreign policy is directly responsible for the authoritarianism of the Cuban government because of the constant threat the U.S. poses to Cuban autonomy. Cuba has a right to national sovereignty, and the ongoing war that the U.S. wages against the Cuban system, and indeed, against political movements throughout Latin America, is legally and morally reprehensible. Denying that it happens is fool's blather.

And not even for one second have I ever been hornswoggled into believing in any "war on terror", so your understanding of my reasoning on the matter is far from complete.

[Billy Burnett]

42. I love the pronouncements here, from the DU Cuba experts.

Please define "democracy".

Here's Miriam-Webster's...

Democracy
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy

1 a: government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2: a political unit that has a democratic government
3capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the United States <from emancipation Republicanism to New Deal Democracy — C. M. Roberts>
4: the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
5: the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

Perhaps you are unaware that Cuba transformed it's system to a Parliamentary system in 1976, and by the definition of Democracy, Cuba is democratic - despite you pronouncement.

Democracy in Cuba
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQDemocracy.html

[MellowDem]

45. You don't have to be an expert.

And in the definition you bring up yourself, you did not prove Cuba has met any of those conditions. In fact, now that Raul is in charge I guess #5 on your democracy definition list has already been violated. Any country can say they are a democracy and not really be one in reality.

[Billy Burnett]

48. Obviously, you aren't. Why don't you read up on the second link.

Second link describes the system. You obviously haven't informed yourself, since you don't seem to understand how Raul became the President of Cuba.

Any country can say they are a democracy and not really be one in reality.

Yep. Democracy is grey, not black and white. That's why it's ridiculous to try to taint Cuba's democratic process, when there are so many types and styles of democracy, especially so from US shores.

[MellowDem]

50. Obviously you aren't either.

And what I read was all nonsensical bullshit. If you want to be taken seriously, posting a link which goes beyond just stating the facts by dropping dipshit excuses like "oh, this is not very democratic, but it's ok because the US is a threat". If you can't read through the bias, I have no idea why you are skeptical of Bush. Every item that is deemed non-democratic is excused as being "necessary" to protect the elections from the big bad neighbor to the north. Do that enough, and you don't have a real democracy.

Still, if you consider this a democracy, than you would also consider Bush taking over as dictator of the US to "stop any influence on the US elections by terrorists", and also create only one party that only has the power to nominate one candidate for the people to either accept or reject, with no transparency or campaigning to see the nominee, only a list of qualifications set out by the one ruling party. Fuck that shit to hell. Of course, we have a long history of democracy and we would see right through it. The Cuban people have been told for years by their non-dissident government that they live in a democracy, so they believe it. Say something enough, it's true. That seems to be your rule.

I can post biased links as well, which describe Cuban "democracy" as anything but. Cuba is not incredibly totalitarian, but that doesn't make it a democracy. No opposition parties allowed, only one candidate to vote for, which of course if they reject, will just be replaced by another candidate. Weird thing though, no one has ever been rejected! I guess every party leader they elect has a perfect record! Imagine that... It's all bullshit. I'm scared at your lack of cynicism.

[Billy Burnett]

51. Re: cynicism

My head was filled with anti Castro/anti Cuba propaganda and cynicism - until I went there in the late 70s. That blew the doors off of the bullshit many think they know about Cuba.

I have been there many times. I have lots of well educated friends there. I've gone to candidate nomination sessions with them.

I may not be an expert, but I do have actual experience in the things I am discussing about Cuba.

As another DUer who's been there says ...

"Been there. Seen it."

Have you?


I really don't care to argue with you about it. You obviously want to defend your sparsely informed position vigorously. I simply hope that Americans, one day, will be freed by their own government and be allowed to travel freely to Cuba to see for themselves.


Cheers.

[MellowDem]

56. The late 70s is a long time ago

You say you've been there since, but I think you are buying into the excuse of "American boogyman" a little too much. Maybe you are still thinking of the attitude back then. I just think it's laughable to use that as an excuse to deny people democracy anymore.

I have never been to Cuba. I do agree that we should lift the embargo and allow people to travel there freely. I think that you take the non-democracy thing a little too hard. I personally don't think it's a democracy, according to my own standards. If we had the same system in the US, I know I wouldn't consider it a democracy. Though I have never been there, I haven't been fed the anti-Cuba bullshit either. I'm fairly young, 22 actually, and never had my head filled with anti-Cuba anything. I have read up on the place though and can take all the information I get with a grain of salt.

Just because I don't think Cuba is a democracy doesn't mean it is in the same category of all the other dictatorships in the world. It's a friendly one in my view, but one nonetheless. The people are relatively happy, so I doubt they will care to protest any time soon. Only if things start going down the shitter will they care. Russia's people are the same way. As long as the petro dollars are fueling their wealth, what do they care for democracy?

I think that we as modern Americans hold democracy and its subsequent rights very near and dear to who we are. Not so with all cultures. For many, having food on the table for your family and being able to practice your culture and religion is all you need, especially if its all you've ever known and you've never experienced democracy. I don't think Cuba has, and I think it's a shame. Just like I think it's a stupid ass policy that keeps the embargo in place, I think it is a stupid ass system that keeps a vibrant democracy from forming in Cuba.

I realize not everyone will have the same type of democracy as the US, but there are a set of general standards that should be applied, or else the meaning of democracy will be lost. I know that Cuba is not a relatively repressive regime, but it is an amateur one in many ways. I only hope that one day Cuba's leaders will stop the Cold War mentality that they impose on their people. I just think that their intentions are not as pure as protecting Cubans from US influence.

And there is dissent. There are many "illegal" political parties in Cuba that operate underground. Are those Cubans against democracy? Obviously, not all Cubans agree with the present system of government, but under the present system, there is nothing they can (legally) do about it. That is not a democracy to me. Unless there is and my naivety doesn't allow me to see it. So what did you see at the candidate nomination sessions? Why is no one ever rejected?

[Eryemil]

59. You assume the Cuban people care about Democracy

I guess I just have to be blunt. Cubans care about feeding their families. That's it.
It's the reason they try to leave the island and the reason for basically ALL of the discontent among the populace.

If you are so concerned about my people, send them food instead of trying to 'bring Democracy' to them. I'd rather the country does not end like all the other 'free' third world nations, if you don't mind.

[Billy Burnett]

62. Domestic political diversity is part of Cuba's political landscape.

I honestly think you need to take a little more time to read and research a broader spectrum of reports and opinions of Cuba prior to making such pronouncements. There is much more information out there, but it is overwhelming trying to sift through the rank amateur propaganda when you have no experience nor basis to challenge it. I empathize with the difficulty accepting something so rarely heard or discussed here in the US.

To repeatedly claim that there is no democracy in Cuba without taking the time to gain any understanding of their system is premature speculation. Many of us who have gone to Cuba had done the same thing prior to going. Things change. Your perspective changes when you get up close and personal with it, as several of us have here. I'm not claiming that Cuba is a workers paradise or any such thing. What I am saying, as do others who've taken the time to look and see, is that Cubans do run Cuba. From the grass roots on up.


As I've mentioned, I did attend several fully open candidate nomination sessions in 1992, in Cienfuegos. Any number of citizens can be nominated for any seat in each of the three levels of assemblies. Prospective candidates publish their platforms and can circulate them, and all candidate's platforms are posted at the elections offices in every district for everyone who wants to pick up a copy. The nomination processes are loud and boisterous, heavily attended sessions (like a caucus in the US, but far more participation)). Districts aren't large - a few hundred to a few thousand. The reason that there are no rejections is that they sort out the most likely via several series of straw polls. Everyone pretty much agrees that there's no point in selecting unqualified or largely unpopular people because they can't even muster enough votes in the straw polls or because they look good in a hat, but some of the minor candidates make it through. After candidates are selected a few weeks pass (five or six, I seem to remember) for the candidates to go door to door and hold rallies to garner more support, and for the elections offices to get ballots printed and make final preparations for the elections.

The elections are then held. Paper ballots. Counted in public. A candidate is selected from among their counterparts based on a majority of votes won.

Three weeks later the ratification election occurs. This is an additional step in the Cuban democratic process. The ratification election's purpose is to ensure that any candidate who has won the election for their respective position has the support of the majority of voters in their district. In order to be ratified to their seat on the assembly, each candidate must receive at least 50% plus 1 of the vote from the electorate in their district. If they do not achieve this, then a new elections is called for within six weeks (starting with new nominations).



There are several political parties that espouse changing the system there, but they aren't popular at all. Cubans like their socialist system. It's relatively new, and they've fared better with it than before it. These native born political interests/parties aren't referred to as "dissidents" in Cuba though. The so called "dissidents" that are referred to in most of the western media are the US funded opposition groups. Some of their activities are illegal, mainly because they receive funding from a foreign source (and much of that source is the self declared enemy of the state of Cuba - the US government, and/or exile terrorist organizations in Miami - like Luis Posada's anti Cuba group), BTW foreign funding of political parties is illegal in the US also, especially funding from admitted terrorist organizations.


Two of many examples of domestic political "opposition" that function openly and legally in Cuba...

Oswaldo Paya nominated for Nobel Peace Prize
http://havanajournal.com/politics/entry/oswaldo-paya-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize/

Cuban exile leader returns 'for peace'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3133649.stm

... and one that is considered a mercenary by the Cuban government, but yet he still engages in politics openly in Cuba ...

Cuban government calls Elizardo Sanchez a US mercenary
http://havanajournal.com/forums/viewthread/755/


There are plenty more.

Some other political parties in Cuba

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/cu.html

Partido Comunista de Cuba (PCC) {Communist Party of Cuba}
Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (PDC) {Christian Democratic Party of Cuba} - Oswaldo Paya's Catholic party
Partido Solidaridad Democrática (PSD) {Democratic Solidarity Party}
Partido Social Revolucionario Democrático Cubano {Cuban Social Revolutionary Democratic Party}
Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (CSDC) {Social Democratic Coordination of Cuba}
Unión Liberal Cubana {Cuban Liberal Union}

http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm

This system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.

Not many people outside of Cuba have taken the time to understand how their democratic system works. Kind of like when visitors to the US discover the ins-and-outs of the US system... they're usually very surprised at one thing or another that they didn't know. Hell, not too many Americans understand their own system. ;)

I hope this helps answer your question.

This is a good book on the subject ...

Democracy in Cuba and the 1997-98 Elections
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books


on edit: FYI, my last visit to Cuba was 2001. Now, under Bush's new restrictions, I can't go.

[Ghost Dog]

69. Excellent description, thanks. "From the grass roots on up:" There's the key.

You know you can travel to Cuba via a third country, with care to avoid US databases, don't you.

[DutchLiberal]

91. Wasn't that just what Castro did?

"where they have tormented, tortured, and slaughtered unconscionable numbers of people in this suffering world."

[DutchLiberal]

90. Where does this love on DU for a brutal dictator comes from?

I can't wrap my head around it. Is it just because right wingers hate him, so there's this Pavlovian reaction to automatically love him?

[Eryemil]

31. Well

The old man's still hanging on. I've been away from Cuba for more than eight years now and I am personally more eager to see all the old bastards down in Miami die so maybe the Cuban people can get a break for once.

Obama said he was interested in broaching discussions with Cuba and now that Raul's taken over as leader it would go much more smoothly. Fidel's too set up in his ways to handle a situation that would require more than a bit of compromise.

[Vidar]

40. Viva Lula! Viva Fidel!!!

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Judi Lynn]

53. Just learned people can download "Cuba and the United States: A Chronological History"

by Jane Franklin. I've heard about it for years and haven't had time to look for it, and just discovered you can get it for nada on line, in a PDF:

Download CUBA AND THE UNITED STATES: A CHRONOLOGICAL HISTORY (pdf)
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jbfranklins/Cuba.htm

As I haven't read it, so I'll be a surprised as anyone else by the contents, when I read it, and I will. I would certainly recommend it to anyone, as it has been seriously recommended to me by others, including a frequent traveller to Cuba, and former DU'er, before her outspokenness and impatience with freeps got her hat handed to her, Canadian well-seasoned traveling Cuba aficionada, "Freecancat."

Some comments on the book:

"Whether one reads it as a history, or keeps it handy as a ready reference,...this is a book that no serious student of U.S.-Cuba relations can afford to be without."
--Philip Brenner, American University

"A marvelous work that puts the U.S. Government's outrageous aggression into stark and stunning context."
--John Marciano, State University of New York

"This chronology provides scholars with an essential and long overdue research tool."
--Louis A. Pérez, Jr., University of North Carolina

~~~~~~~~~~~

Cuba and the United States: A Chronological History begins with an introductory chapter on the background that led to revolution, tracing Cuba-U.S. relations from the time when both countries were colonies of European powers. Then comes the detailed, year-by-year chronology from January 1959 through 1995. The connections between these two nations are placed in the context of global events and politics.

Designed to be used in many ways, this book may be read as narrative history or consulted as a reference guide to a wide range of topics. The chronological method establishes historical context, organizes a maximum amount of information, and conveys the interconnectedness of lesser-known occurrences with major developments. Widely-discussed episodes such as the Bay of Pigs invasion or the Missile Crisis are shown to be part of a continuum of events.

The index, an integral part of the book, may be used to reveal historical context. For example, if a reader wants to find out about the exodus from Mariel in 1980, the index will of course list direct references but it can do much more, for Mariel is just one episode in a long complex story indexed under "migration."

The index may also be used to disclose the course of various people and issues--e.g., the U.S. trade embargo (including the Torricelli Act and the Helms-Burton Act), the travel ban, nationalization and compensation, CIA operatives like Félix Rodríguez, Jorge Mas Canosa and the Cuban American National Foundation, elections, hijackings, human rights, Radio and TV Martí, and the U.S. invasions of Vietnam, Grenada and Panama.

[Billy Burnett]

55. Thanks. Check this little bit of info from your link.

Page 389

October 18 In order to end a filibuster being led by Senator
Christopher Dodd (D-Connecticut), Senate Majority Leader
Robert Dole and Senator Jesse Helms agree to drop Title III
of the Helms-Burton bill — the section that would empower
Cuban Americans to make new claims on Cuban property they
lost before they became U.S. citizens (see February 9). The Senate
then votes for cloture, clearing the way for a vote on the bill
itself. Two previous cloture votes on October 12 and October
17 failed.

October 19 The Senate passes the Helms-Burton legislation, minus
Title III, with a vote of 74 to 24. Before this bill can be sent to
President Clinton for signature or veto, it must go to a House-
Senate conference to resolve differences between Senate and
House versions. On March 12, 1996, President Clinton signs this
bill, including Title III, into law.

Looks like Title III was reinserted into the bill by the House and Senate comittee even though it was democratically voted out of the bill! :argh:

Another example of the huge grey area that US democracy is/isn't.

[Judi Lynn]

61. You've dug up something they had buried, Billy Burnett! My God. The VOTE WENT AGAINST IT,

but some scum put it back in, in committee.

Lincoln Diaz-Balart has done this same thing to Cuba travel ban legislation multiple times after _{George W. Bush} stole the Presidency. It was seen as especially diabolical, as the vote to remove the travel ban clearly reflected the wishes of the large majority of the American people, and their own Congress voted to remove it, several times.

It was seen as a real coup in that it spared _{George W. Bush} the public exposure having to veto any bills containing that travel ban removal, and then have to be open to anger from the American public.

This Title III thing is ASTOUNDING. Clearly, it's not commonly known.

I want to find out more about this when I get enough time. I would dearly love to find out from my Congressman who is on the Congressional Working Committee on Cuba what the hell happened.

This IS big, and it's damned ugly, isn't it?

Spectacular catch, Billy Burnett. Swear words!

[unkachuck]

57. "...the responsibility of rich countries ..."

....Luiz, Fidel and everyone else on the planet agrees the worlds' current economic crisis is the result of unregulated fascist capitalism gone amok in the rich countries....

....you know, considering his health and age, I think Fidel looks pretty damn good....hope I look as good at 82....hope I live to 82....

[bemildred]

78. You gotta be pretty "lucid" to survive going on fifty years now against the

overt, violent, and vehement opposition of the US' foreign policy apparatus. Senor Castro has to be one heck of a guy. And it is worth pointing out that: if it was so important that he be removed, it hard to see why, since he is still there and nothing much has happened.

[WriteDown]

80. More dated pictures of a man who has been dead for months..

From article. "Photos taken earlier this year when Lula da Silva visited Fidel Castro:" I am just looking for a single picture of him waving from a balcony or a car window or ANYTHING that can be assigned a clear cut date.

He is beginning to resemble another celebrity:
http://truthaboutelvis.com/sightings.htm

PS. How much is he getting for his Adidas endorsement?

[Judi Lynn]

81. So now Brazil's President is caught up in the nefarious scheme to keep Fidel Castro's death a secret

Why not?

And they use the right-wing controlled media to spread their fantasy. Of course.

[WriteDown]

82. Just show me...

Any photo from the last 3 months that can be confirmed. Either he is bed-ridden or he is dead .

[Judi Lynn]

83. Brazil's President is involved in a massive lie about Fidel Castro's death?

He just saw him November 1st.
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/5116159/lula-discusses-economic-crisis-lucid-fidel-castro

You are mad as a hatter if you think Presidents of other countries will be swept in in some massive trick to deceive to drooling idiots in South Florida for one reason or another.

You overestimate your importance in the large scheme of things.

[WriteDown]

84. Do you not understand the question?

I will be glad to ask it in Spanish if you would like?

[Judi Lynn]

85. You didn't ask a question, did you? Did you read the original article?

It says Luis Inacio Lula da Silva just visited him, and says he's lucid.

For you to attempt to claim Lula da Silva LIED about meeting him is predictable.

[WriteDown]

86. The fact that you don't see this as odd really worries...

me. You have the former leader of a country who hasn't been seen for months. No photos or videos or even recordings indicating that he is alive. Yet you do not see anything fishy here? Would we tolerate the same situation if this was Bushler and Merkel spoke about how lucid he was? Doubtful. Very odd description too. Lucid? Who said he wasn't?

As far as Lula is concerned, all politicians lie. It doesn't make them all like Bushler, but to anoint anyone as a saint is a mistake.

[Ken Burch]

88. Fidel is out of power. Why does it even matter if he's alive or dead?

Are you eager to lead a right-wing invasion or something?