How do Unions Negotiate for Higher Wages in this Recession?

[last1standing]

Serious questions to think about:

How do these pundits, politicians and economists who talk about unions being able to renegotiate for higher wages expect them to do so with shrinking membership, anti-union "right to work" laws, and the worst economic climate since the Great Depression?

Why would the same corporations that have pocketed every penny of increased productivity profits while stagnating wages offer up more money with the savings from this excise tax on premium healthcare plans?

Why don't any of these people ever point out examples of this happening in the past?

[stray cat]

1. They are in the same boat as the rest of us - unlikely to get raises from companies going under

[doc03]

2. We don't, we just try to keep what we got.

Now after 30 years of company lock-outs trying to force us to give up our health-care benefits the Democrats and the President of the USA step in to take them. Isn't America a great country?

[dkf]

3. Good question.

Personally I think this will give them an excuse to cut benefits without increasing wages.

[ProSense]

4. I don't get it? Are you implying that

some union members are stuck with high-priced crappy plans?

Unions negotiate, that's what they do.

[last1standing]

6. Very callous response. Hate unions much?

I know that several other insurance care proponents here do.

Forcing unions into renegotiating in the worst economic climate in our lifetimes is not a way to support workers. Only an idiot or a union breaker would argue otherwise.

[ProSense]

8. Stop trying to pretend you're making sense.

Unions will have the best reason to renegotiate benefits when health reform passes. It's moronic to try to argue that members have to keep lousy plans that cost too much simply because we're in a recession. Ludicrous.

[last1standing]

10. Calling these plans "lousy" doesn't really make them so. That's just propaganda they're feeding you.

These plans are actually very good, with little or no co-pays, choice of physician, no need for referrals, dental, optical and psychological care, etc...

Because of this, its only moronic to try to make people believe the administration's spin machine when it spews out these lies. It's also moronic to think that its a good time for the unions to renegotiate in the middle of a severe recession and over 10% unemployment.

[ProSense]

12. "Cadillac costs for Chevy benefits"

I'm not the one calling them lousy.

[last1standing]

13. Really, then why did you start your own thread on it calling them lousy?

Your post is not telling the truth. Some would call that a lie, but not me. I'm just saying the words you typed are complete fabrications.

[ProSense]

14. Can you reason?

Those arguing against the tax are characterizing the plans in this way. I agree with them, but why would anyone want to protect these plan?

[last1standing]

17. Can you read?

You posted the thread calling them lousy. This is on you.

[ProSense]

21. The question is

can you?

[last1standing]

24. I read it and my response stays the same.

You're just looking to divert attention from your union busting comments. Let's stick to that, shall we?

[ProSense]

29. You are desperate

and pathetic.

[last1standing]

30. And you're nothing but a scab with an internet connection.

n/t

[ProSense]

32. More idiotic drivel n/t

[last1standing]

33. I know you are, but what am I?!

LOL! The problem with you scabs is that you're so unoriginal.

[ProSense]

34. The problem with morons is

they're morons.

[last1standing]

35. Takes one to know one!

Scab.

[ChicagoSuz219]

5. They were giving up some stuff...

...in exchange for those so-called Cadillac insurance plans.

Now, who knows?

[last1standing]

7. They can't just open up a single clause in the contract for renegotiation.

Once the contract is broken, its broken. The whole thing will be up for consideration and this is not the time to do that if it can be helped.

This plan is a union breaker. Nothing less.

[doc03]

11. When our management breaks the rules they are

quick to point out it is not a "Contract" it is an "Agreement". If you don't like it file a grievance is their favorite response. Then the grievances pile up until the next "Agreement" rolls around and they are all tossed out.

[last1standing]

15. Did you ever think you'd see the day that DU was filled with union-breaking threads?

Some of these people really don't give a flying fuck about workers in this country. It was all just a game to them and they can't stand to see their side lose.

[QC]

18. The right wing takeover of this site has truly been a wonder to behold,hasn't it? n/t

[last1standing]

25. Stop that! These are good Progressives who just happen to hate workers.

And good healthcare, and transparency, and the middle-class, and polar bears, and wolves, and prosecuting torturers, and civil rights, and...and...and...

[QC]

26. They believe in progress, so they are progressives.

No, seriously. I have seen that argument advanced more than once lately.

[last1standing]

28. LOL! Its amazing what people will think up in order to rationalize their behavior.

n/t

[ChicagoSuz219]

36. I'm not sure what you're talking about...

...none of this has been set in stone yet.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. Then how is it the employer can move to a cheaper health insurance plan?

If the contracts aren't up for re-negotiation then doesn't the employer have to keep providing the same health insurance even if it is more expensive?

[DJ13]

9. It used to be they could negotiate for better heath insurance

But the Cadillac Plan that Congress seems determined to push through to the final bill will close off even that avenue to unions, as employers would fight like hell to keep from running into a punitive tax rate on insurance.

[QC]

16. Look! Over here! Quick! A picture of Bo!

[last1standing]

19. Taxpayers will pay for his "Cadillac" healthcare plan while being taxed on their own.

Doesn't that give you the warm & fuzzies?

[QC]

20. Why do you hate America? Why? n/t

[last1standing]

22. You're right. Its our civic duty to pay for Barney's ..oops... Bo's healthcare!

Only a damned commie would think it more important to have good health care for humans.

[QC]

27. Bo is adorable! n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

23. And here's another aspect that makes wage increases even less likely:

Many union members either work directly for the government (teachers, police, firefighters) or for companies that have substantial government contracts. In many states, such as my state of Arizona, the government is constitutionally obligated to balanced the budget. If the excise tax affects a lot of teachers and other gov't employees here, any savings from it on health insurance will NOT be put back in wages because it will be used to fill the budget gap because we are currently in a deep deficit. The unionized companies with government contracts will simply get less money in their future contracts, hence, no wage increases for them either. I'm pretty sure Jon Gruber hasn't figured that into his projections.

[last1standing]

31. That's an excellent point!

There are too many problems with this asinine plan to fix at this point. Not only does it add to the destruction of the middle class it tanks state and local governments as well.

[applegrove]

38. They should absolutely not negotiate anything right now. Wait for the jobless recovery to be over.

The baby boomers will start to retire en mass in the next few years. Jobs will open up. It may become an employees market. That is when union should negotiate new contracts.

[inthebrain]

39. You want a raise be prepared for your pink slip

Your boss will proabably look to let you go knowing he can hire someone to do your job for less. Not to mention avoid keeping a disgrunteled employee around.