MLK on BHO

[rapturedbyrobots]

with MLK day coming up there will surely be a lot of references to obama as the first 'black' president. fulfilling the dream and whatnot. what do you think the man who said this year before his death: "the evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism" would have to say about the openly neoliberal/DLC obama's presidency (not his election)?

[Drunken Irishman]

1. Why would anyone be so presumptuous to speak for the dead?

[rapturedbyrobots]

5. i don't

i'm anticipating that the media will be speaking for MLK next monday. predictably, they will lavish praise on him as the fulfillment of MLK's dream. i don't know if he is or isn't. i think the election of a person of color to the presidency is certainly historic, but i personally don't think he governs in a way that is totally reconcilable with the stated politics of MLK and his part of the social justice movement. that will be totally ignored in the MSM commentary. no reason we can't talk about it here. this is not obama bashing or MLK glorifying. just trying to see if we can collectively look at the reality of what both men have said and done. in the spirit of remembrance, we should remember him as he was not as the MSM will project him to us.

[ProSense]

7. "this is not obama bashing"

"openly neoliberal/DLC obama's presidency"

No, it's about subjective drivel.

[rapturedbyrobots]

10. that's not bashing

its calling it what it is. i don't agree with neoliberal policies. but that's what they are. some people think that's a good thing. that's fine. some people support the DLC. that's fine. i'm not trying to argue that point here. but nobody can deny that good or bad, obama has taken up the DLC position on economic policy. i'm just asking how that squares with the narrative that the MSM will be pushing next monday.

the obama protection force is really out in force on this one. making up attacks where none have been made.

[ProSense]

12. You intentionally missed the point.

I didn't characterize it as bashing. I stated that it was subjective drivel.

[rapturedbyrobots]

19. i did miss the point

sorry.

but to address your point. its not subjective when you can compare the policies of the president with the policy objectives of the DLC and the economic theories of neoliberalism. they align very well.

arguing whether that's good or bad is often a subjective matter. one that i don't want to get into in this thread. but will be happy to when/where appropriate.

[stevenleser]

58. "Neoliberalism" is a meaningless pejorative. No one defines it the same way (nt)

[elizm]

2. Get a life. nt

[Jane Austin]

3. Bugger off -

and take your straw man with you.

[PBS Poll-435]

4. K&A!

[HughMoran]

16. same here

this is filth

[jenmito]

21. Ditto.

[salguine]

6. I spent four years studying King and his writings and I think it would be safe to say

that he would be bitterly disappointed.

[ProSense]

8. "King...would be bitterly disappointed"

Martin Luther King? You obviously didn't learn much about the man in your studies.

[Fire1]

52. True that. n/t

[Cha]

9. Boohoo.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Forkboy]

15. Time for another break.

[Captain Hilts]

11. Different people. Different times. nt

[HughMoran]

14. Garbage

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

17. I suspect he'd be pretty happy overall, even if he had some disagreements with Obama.

Next?

[Sebastian Doyle]

18. What would Dr. King say about escalating the war in Afghanistan?

Probably this.....

Don't let anybody make you think God chose America as his divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems I can hear God saying to America "you are too arrogant, and if you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I will place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name. Be still and know that I'm God. Men will beat their swords into plowshafts and their spears into pruning hooks, and nations shall not rise up against nations, neither shall they study war anymore." I don't know about you, I ain't going to study war anymore.

And as for his views on health care reform, I don't think he'd accept the Insurance Criminal Bailout Act as a solution.

[salguine]

20. Not only an indictment of epic hubris, as you point out, but King was also staunchly

opposed to the war in Vietnam on the grounds that not only was it morally wrong, but he also opposed it in that he was also a crusader against poverty, and he condemned the massive expenditure of money and resources in fighting Vietnam as wasteful of money and resources that should have been put to use helping poor Americans.

[ProSense]

22. With the rabid hyenas out for flesh since Obama took office, this King quote seems appropriate

"I know sometimes you get weary and the challenges keep coming fast and furious, but don't let go of your vision. Hold fast to the dream and depend on your God for strength. You are my brother."

Unlike those who think character assassinations are appropriate, Dr. King would have worked in good faith to support the President and offer constructive criticism.

[goclark]

36. Yes he would nt

[jenmito]

23. Wow-you are obviously confusing Obama with Bush if you think he'd say that to Obama. Obama is not

trying to police the world. King could've said that to Bush, though.

[Sebastian Doyle]

24. He's not?

Really, now? Iraq? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Yemen?? For fucks sake, Yemen??

[ProSense]

25. No, he's not, and no amount of ignorance changes that. n/t

[Sebastian Doyle]

26. And no amount of cheerleading changes the facts.

Granted, Obama didn't start the bullshit in Iraq or Afghanistan. But he's keeping it going. And he's still repeating their lies. (i.e. every imbecile who sets his nuts on fire is a member of "Al Qaeda")

[ProSense]

28. "Granted, Obama didn't start the bullshit " Your argument debunked right there n/t

[jenmito]

27. No, he's not. Do you think he would've invaded Iraq? No-even after Bush had to admit

there were no WMD he said he still would've done it since we "liberated" the country. Obama is trying to get us out of what Bush started. Too bad you can't see that.

[ProSense]

29. It's obvious

that some people are having trouble dealing with the fact that the Obama Presidency hasn't imploded so they're having to hang on to hyperbole, salivate over every spin that seems potentially damaging and resort to character assassinations to gin up faux outrage.

It's pathetic.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[Sebastian Doyle]

30. Chimpy started Afghanistan too, and Obama has no intention of ending that shit

And spare me the Al Qaeda mythology, because I didn't believe that bullshit in October 2001, and I don't believe it now. There is no valid reason to stay there, and there was especially no valid reason to escalate it.

And there is nothing even remotely resembling a threat to this country from a shithole like Yemen.

[ProSense]

31. He laid out his plan, which clearly shows intent to end it, but keep on pretending. n/t

[jenmito]

34. Obama IS planning on ending Afghanistan. You're obviously living in a hate-filled anti-Obama haze

and your mean-spirited attacks on other posters make you look ugly.

[Number23]

35. Why do you have the word black in quotes in your OP?

[rapturedbyrobots]

37. because they use the word to refer to the color of his skin

i take 'black' and 'white' to refer to historical relations to capital. and in the u.s. that is a very specific historical relation, a collective experience of 'blackness', social institutions, etc... i know some folks from the caribbean for example, that although dark skinned hate being called black. because of what that means in america, and they have no relation to that experience or history. they prefer to be called jamaican, or haitian, etc...

so, i would call obama the first president of color. but that's just me. if he feels black, and other people think he's black like them...that's cool. i'm sure if he wasn't president the cops would profile him just the same.

that's just my piece...i'm trying to rethink ways of relating to each other beyond black/white/brown/yellow/red. if we can get past all that then maybe we can rethink social bonds and organize in ways that were previously impossible. recognize our shared struggles, regardless of skin color. organize the poor and disenfranchized. not subgroup by subgroup, but all together. this is what many in the social justice movements of the 60s & 70s came to realize, some later than others including mlk, malcolm x, the panthers, etc...

not that heritage doesn't matter, it does, but is not limiting or the final determination. i'm of mexican heritage, but don't consider myself mexican.

[ProSense]

38. There is so much irony in your post it's not funny

so, i would call obama the first president of color. but that's just me. if he feels black, and other people think he's black like them...that's cool. i'm sure if he wasn't president the cops would profile him just the same.

i'm trying to rethink ways of relating to each other beyond black/white/brown/yellow/red. if we can get past all that then maybe we can rethink social bonds and organize in ways that were previously impossible. recognize our shared struggles, regardless of skin color. organize the poor and disenfranchized. not subgroup by subgroup, but all together. this is what many in the social justice movements of the 60s & 70s came to realize, some later than others including mlk, malcolm x, the panthers, etc...

Ways like wondering, as you did in the OP, what MLK "would have to say about the openly neoliberal/DLC obama's presidency"?

More drivel.

[rapturedbyrobots]

40. please

explain the irony of poor people of color discussing the social construction and reenforcement of racial tensions and divisions to me. that'd be great.

the point is i don't call obama the black president because his race is not determining in the final instance. yes, he's black...yes, he's president....but can't we move past that and look at what he's actually doing while being black and president? is he representing the interests of the american black community? maybe. but you can't even ask a question like that when its taken at face value that he's 'the black president'.

more drivel for you from the black agenda report. on why the State of the Black Union (SOBU) was cancelled this year...arguably the year there is most to talk about. read it if you like, but maybe people of color talking about race issues is too much for you. just stay in your black and white world where the black man is president. yay!

this is the danger when you make obama the 'black' president:
http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=content/tavis-smiley-ends-state-black-american-union-show-continues-media-lockdown-obamas-black-left

For one Saturday a year then, SOBU was eagerly awaited and watched by millions because it tried to reflect the very real black internal conversation, which simply could not be heard anyplace else on TV. To a significant degree, it ws a hit because it reflected and validated the ordinary wisdom and experience of black America. For ten years SOBUwas a win-win situation for everybody. But that's over now. There's a new sheriff in town. Like Tavis said, ten years ago we didn't have a black president. That's what's different, and that's why SOBU is being called off.

In a 2010 SOBU, a year into the Obama administration some SOBU panelists are bound to question the ongoing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, to note that the president's pledge of gradual withdrawal from Iraq ain't happening, and that giving a peace prize to a war president, well, doesn't make sense. Others on the panel would take the president to task for not prosecuting Bush-era war criminals, for continuing torture, assassination, kidnappings and secret prisons. Inevitably others would express disappointment that the president's promised universal health care bill has turned out to be an bailout of private health insurance companies, and mention the dreaded words “single payer.” Al Sharpton might be taken to task for accepting a half million dollar bribe to team up with Arne Duncan and Newt Gingrich and campaign against public education. Dissatisfaction with the president's willingness to bail out speculators and bankers, but not rescue homeowners is bound to surface. Somebody would bring up Israel, the occupation of Palestine, and Gaza, or wonder aloud why the US is periodically bombing Somalia and Yemen.

Tavis can't stack the panels to exclude or silence the critics. How can he tell Cornel West, for example to stay home or stay quiet? He knows his panelists, he knows his audience, and he knows his politics. Even if no panelist dropped more than one of these points, the effect on Democrats and on the White House of any two or three of them, of public black criticism aired on TV in front of millions of African Americans would be catastrophic. The solid black support the Obama administration enjoys depends on excluding, marginalizing, and hiding any viewpoints to the left of corporate mainstream Democrats. As long as the only opponents of the president allowed access to the mic are Republicans, Obamites can demand that African Americans continue to circle the wagons around the president no matter how much he ignores the actual wishes of what is supposedly his core constituency.

[ProSense]

42. How did I know your were here pushing Black Propaganda Report?

Bruce Dixon and Glen Ford?

No thanks.

The solid black support the Obama administration enjoys depends on excluding, marginalizing, and hiding any viewpoints to the left of corporate mainstream Democrats.

That's one way to insult the intelligence of black voters.

Ludicrous.

[rapturedbyrobots]

43. so when

bush manipulated media narrative to solidify his base, did you stand up for the intelligence of all white voters? stop patronizing people of color and treating black folks like some monolith with obama at the head. there are plenty of gullible black folk too. plenty of smart ones. plenty who love obama. plenty who criticize as well.

[ProSense]

45. Drivel. n/t

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

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[ProSense]

47. Accurate. n/t

[Number23]

51. Lots of black people are damn glad that the SOTBU is no longer in existence

And "The Black Agenda Report?" You're a little late. Your friends posting the "black people are mad at Obama too!!!one!" posts are usually in GD.

[impik]

39. I know what he'll say about you

And it's a word i won't use here.

[inthebrain]

41. I wonder what MLK would say about giving money to bankers?

[firedupdem]

44. I say you shouldn't concern yourself with Dr. King. n/t

[rapturedbyrobots]

48. ok

let's cancel mlk day then?

i thought the whole point was to concern ourselves with what he did, said, and thought. and maybe apply some of that to our current situation.

[firedupdem]

54. I'm sure you probably wish that would happen. Dr. King isn't

here to speak for himself. Not a damn person on this earth knows what he would think or say. Especially fail pushing posters like yourself. Now I'm done with you and the rest of your ignorant ilk. The divide and conquer routine is really fucking old.

[rapturedbyrobots]

55. the point is that the MEDIA will be speaking for him

LOUDLY...and they will only be telling one part of the story. how great it is that a black man was elected president. that is actually amazing. and historic. and great. but what they won't be talking about is mlk's positions on things like poverty, and war, and health care. positions that still resonate with a lot of people today. positions that may sometimes be at odds with what the president is doing/has done. why is it such a crime to ask if the media narrative that we will be told is sufficient?

i'm not trying to divide anything. just looking for reasonable, informed opinions on the matter. like frenchiecat's below. i totally respect her husband's position.

i think if mlk was bold enough to stand up to lbj on vietnam...he'd be bold enough to stand up to obama on iraq & vietnam, on education and poverty, on housing and health care. with passion and reason...and judge him not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his policy.

[FrenchieCat]

49. I read your question out loud to my hubby,

who like Martin Luther King Jr. is a Baptist Minister
steeped in the teachings of the Black Church,
as well as in black History.

First he said that that Barack Obama IS ending both wars,
even if it isn't apparent that this is what will happen in Afghanistan,
and that both were inherited.

and he said that MLK would keep in context that Barack Obama isn't a Baptist Minister,
but that in the end he would say that he has lived to see his dream,
and that this man is more than he would have ever dreamed for.

King believed in miracles, just not man-made ones.

[rapturedbyrobots]

53. great answer

thanks. i hope your husband and you, and his congregation are praying for those in haiti.

[DerekG]

50. He'd be a major thorn in Obama's side

And on this site, he'd be about as popular as Ralph Nader.

[rasputin1952]

56. Looking through this thread, I too wonder what Dr. King would have to say...

not so much about the president, but more about some of the people who have posted in this thread.

Dr. King was many things, but one of the more pertinent of his principles, was that people should discuss things, not argue or attack others. He was a man of passion, and yet he always allowed the public to only see the positive passion...he honestly believed the only way to move forward, was to come out of the darkness of ignorance and fear.

I have no dog in this fight...I just wanted to state an observance...in the shadow of Dr. Kings work for peace, harmony and equality...there seems to be little of it in this thread...;)

[rapturedbyrobots]

57. i feel you

funny how little discussion goes on in discussion boards sometimes.