Levin (and Franken) in Afghanistan: "What I saw here is almost totally positive"

[Clio the Leo]

Levin, Franken in Afghanistan
By ALEXANDER BURNS | 01/14/10 7:31 AM

Two Senate Democrats voiced some optimism about the U.S. mission in Afghanistan after the first visit to the country by senators of the president's party since the White House announced a new infusion of troops, McClatchy reports.

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.) still had some reservations about the planned surge - "It's a reasonable decision, though not one that I would have made," he explained - but added: "What I saw here is almost totally positive"

Levin and Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) told McClatchy "they were told that Afghans are now volunteering for the Army and police in record numbers "with 11,000 now in training, compared with 3,000 to 4,000 in November. Others are being turned away due to a severe shortage of trainers, for which U.S. allies were to blame."

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0110/almost_totally_positive_f29e1403-9510-4a2a-9690-c4f7b62cf560.html

[NJmaverick]

1. This is certainly welcome news

It's good to see things turning around in that Country.

[atreides1]

3. What they saw

Was a "dog and pony show", that the US military has been famous for showing politicians and visiting dignataries for years!

They got to see exactly what the chain of command wanted them to see, nothing more, nothing less.

Just because it was Levin and Franken, doesn't mean spit.

[NJmaverick]

8. I would agree with your claims, but with all the other news and polling from the

region, it would be expected that they saw good signs.

[izquierdista]

11. Signs printed in English

And completely unrecognizable to the local people.

[NJmaverick]

13. clever come back, but not an accurate one

try reading a few Afghan newspapers, it will give you a far better feel for the region than you will get reading articles from the liberal blogsphere.

[izquierdista]

18. As accurate as FOXPashtun?

Since the small educated clique in Afghanistan is in the thrall of Karzai, I have to wonder how objective those newspapers would be.

[NJmaverick]

19. Whatever, you keep cherry picking your data to suit your agenda

I will continue my effort to get the most accurate information on the situation I can.

[izquierdista]

20. Can you even tell?

When information is accurate?

[NJmaverick]

21. It's a matter of critical thinking.

by that it means looking for quotation marks on statements. Looking at the person that makes the statement and try to figure out of that person is giving an accurate accounting or not and if there is an agenda.

Regional publications are often the best source and their editorial columns tend to be good sources for getting a feel for regional feelings.

It often requires looking at multiple news sources from the entire political spectrum. It's looking to see if statements are supported by other statments.

Another good tip off to good news, is if they bother to or make an effort to give both sides of an issue. Nearly ever event has two sides and more often than not the truth lies in between. Still if I see an article that only quotes one side, I tend to look at it as less than reliable.

In the end it's a time consuming process, but it's the only way to really understand what's going on in a far away land where there are many stake holders with different agendas.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

31. English Language Foreign News Sources

They're invaluable. They're not carrying water for ANY American administration -- including Obama -- and so they're more likely to give an unbiased report on what's happening.

[treestar]

25. I wouldn't conclude that

People learn English throughout the world.

[izquierdista]

9. Before they would show off munitions factories

Now they show off basket case countries that they are "turning around".

[Kolesar]

16. You don't know that. You're just making stuff up...

..and posting it on the internet

lugubrious malaise

[treestar]

24. Prove it

If you don't believe anything then why worry about politics at all? If it's such a show and there is no substance to anything, why not go to the pic threads only and just enjoy the show? If it's as bad as you think it is, there isn't much you can do anyhow.

[PurityOfEssence]

37. I hear things are lovely in Potemkinstan this time of year...

Levin's statement literally reeks of reluctant solidarity...

[mkultra]

38. proof or just negative assumptions about this administration?

[Bragi]

2. Nothing good will come from this war

Get out now.

[dionysus]

5. maybe they can train enough afghans we can let them take over and get the hell out.

[Bragi]

10. That was the line used in Vietnam for more than decade /nt

[dionysus]

14. because we let the situation fester for so many years, we're stuck in a spot where

no matter what we do, there's going to be a lot of death.

we stay, many people will be killed, including civilians.

when we leave, the taliban will take back over, and many people will be killed, including civilians.

it's a horrible situation either way, but i am not opposed to just leaving.

as long as people are honest with the fact that when we leave, there's still going to be violence and death.

[Kolesar]

15. bragi streams his single-sentence crap all over every Afghanistan thread

Your thoughtful arguements are wasted on bragi.

[Bragi]

22. Not really

If you check it out, you'll see I occasionally do make quite detailed posts on this subject, which happens to be one where I have done quite a lot of reading and personal investigation over the past few years.

My opposition to this war is intense, and I think well grounded in fact.

For my part, there's not much I can do if this offends your pro-war views. I certainly wouldn't urge others to ignore your posts just because I disagree with them.

- B

[Kolesar]

23. I organized the first two anti war rallies in my county, numb nuts

As opposed to you whose only activism is hating Democrats on the web

[Bragi]

27. WTF?

You're apparently a bit unglued.

Bye.

- B

[mkultra]

39. if you are comparing Vietnam to Afghanistan i would doubt you are well read

frankly that's just boilerplate redux. The two conflicts are very different. read a book.

[treestar]

26. We could have learned from that about how to handle the details

[timtom]

4. WTF??

"...optimism about the U.S. mission in Afghanistan..."

Mission? -- What "mission?"

[nightrain]

7. I think that means--death to children, destruction, mayhem, and

continuation of the defense contracts.

Defense-related "products" are the one segment that the US still manufactures in enormous quantites, in spite of the downturn in the economy. War is good business.

[timtom]

34. Exactly what it means.

Thanks.

[Orsino]

30. Operation Failure Delay

Mission is to put off, for as long as possible, public realization that we lack the resources for a conventional victory in an unconventional war (with conventional casualties).

[timtom]

35. Nicely stated.

Thanks.

[harkadog]

6. The military used to do these shows in Vietnam too

Politicians would come back saying how "we have turned the corner" there. Another generation has to learn this fraud now.

[last1standing]

12. This reinforces my belief that Obama should not have sent more troops.

Unlike many others here, I wasn't fully against the Afghan war, but I did think it was handled in the worst possible way from the beginning. Instead of sending over troops and bolstering the Northern Alliance - a group that has been nearly if not just as bad as the Taliban, we should have trained proper psy-op units to infiltrate and weaken the Taliban while working on finding and promoting a less radical organization. Of course bush* fucked that up so Obama was left with a mess.

Obama's mistake, though, is in continuing a war with no honestly defined strategy in place for winning. At this point, I'd support Obama's plan 100% if he could outline a real plan for finding and promoting a non-corrupt government that would uphold the rights of ALL Afghanistan's citizens. Unless he can do this, our troops will fight and die in order to install one that will end up no better than the group we just got rid of. This is why we need to bring our troops home and develop a real plan for this region instead of just blundering in and showing everyone we know how to waste billions of dollars.

[tekisui]

17. Did they go to Helmud or Kandahar?

At the McClatchy link it gives little info on what they saw, other than the smoke that McChrystal blew up their ass.

[StarfarerBill]

28. No doubt they were given the Potemkin tour of Kabul;

but it's not mentioned that they ever went beyond Karzai's fiefdom. Hard to see anything of the countryside from NATO headquarters or the presidential palace.

[grahamhgreen]

29. How many Americans should die for the Islamic republic we set up in Afghanistan?

[NJmaverick]

32. The Taliban?

:shrug:

[grahamhgreen]

33. No, the new one. This is why it's a lost cause, IMHO. (Text)

Article One

Afghanistan shall be an Islamic Republic, independent, unitary and indivisible state.

Article Two

The sacred religion of Islam is the religion of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. Followers of other faiths shall be free within the bounds of law in the exercise and performance of their religious rituals.

Article Three

No law shall contravene the tenets and provisions of the holy religion of Islam in Afghanistan.

http://president.gov.af/Contents/68/Documents/199/ChapterOneConstitutionState.html


So we really are not changing anything fundamentally, just installing our version of a theocracy. It does not guarantee women equality. It allows Sharia law to override common law. In it's most repressive form, Sharia allows for severe abuse of women such as we saw with the passage of the law that allows men to rape their wives. Women can be forced to marry, and have little property rights, etc.

But what really irks me is that Americans are dying for this crap.

[Cha]

36. Thanks for this

report, Clio.