"It's over" is not acceptable in regards to health care

[CreekDog]

I plan to write those congresspeople who have said that and say that if they willingly allow the legislation to die and issue to leave consideration, I will be looking to support their opponents.

I may reconsider if those members opposing whichever bill is passaable give up the healthcare provided to them by their employer --the American people.

:grr:

[flamingdem]

1. Medicare for those 55+ and WHY NOT?? nt

[IndianaGreen]

2. It was over the day Joe Lieberman killed the Medicare option

[CreekDog]

3. no it's not, it certainly doesn't need to be

but if they let an opportunity (Senate Bill, modified Senate Bill, Reconciled Bill) die on the vine, I consider that nearly unforgivable.

...oh and suicidal too.

[napi21]

4. I think Nancy will get the Senate Bill passed in the House & then

the Dems will amend it later. This has happened in the past quite a few times, and it will work again. Look at SS & Medicare. Neither are even close to what they were when they were passed!

It's a nice thing to want it all in the first bill, but it just doesn't happen that way! BE REALISTIC!

[Political Heretic]

8. Don't kid yourself.

The House is not going to have zero voice in this bill by adpoting without any changes, the Senate Bill.

It simply won't happen. Too many egos to even believe that's a serious option. To many members of the house that weren't satisfied with the HOUSE version of the bill, who LOATHE the Senate version of the bill.

It's not going to go down that way.


As for the rest of your post, this bill doesn't lay a foundation to build on in the future. Instead I believe it will actively harm working families and poor people in the long run. It will have to be UNDONE in the future in order to try to make anything better.

That's not something we want to pass. Legislation at the very least should DO NO HARM.

[napi21]

10. So you think it would actually be better to kill HC after the Dems, including the Prez,

spent a WHOLE YEAR on it? Come on. Give me a break! I don't see that happening either!

[Political Heretic]

11. Because I care about what's best for working families, not the polls or popularity of Democrats, Yes

And I wrote as much here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7516211

[napi21]

16. OK, scrap the bill and admit your Party frizled away their whole first year!

I disagree with you. First of all, how much of a supplement are poor people to receive under this bill? Do you even know? I don't, but I have read that 150% of poverty would have their entire premium paid for.

I've had this same discussion with several Dem friends of mine. They were so ticked off that we didn't get a gov't sponsored plan. When I asked, specifically, what was that plan...nobody knew. I asked them what they were fighting for? Well...I asumed it would be cheaper! I've read some articles that stated that it couldn't be cheaper. Truthfully, I have no idea, but you're fighting for the same thing....the unknown!

[Political Heretic]

17. Scrap the bill and admit what the electorate already knows:

That you fucked up and cared more about wall street than main street.... you can't HIDE that.

Try to imagine Al Pachino in The Insider as I say this:

The cat.... is TOTALLY out of the bag!

The best thing you can possibly do is own up to how much you fucked up, let this thing die, and start proving to the American people that you HEAR THEM and you're going to start getting about their business, not wall streets business.

Come back and do some real health reform in smaller pieces if you have to. Anything other than pass a bill that will HARM PEOPLE all so you can claim a political victory.

That's just not acceptable.

I'm not fighting for the unknown. I know exactly what I'm fighting against.

[CreekDog]

24. Yes, killing it or letting it die would be insanity

Sadly, I need to be convinced that insanity is off the table for our side. :shrug:

[gravity]

22. You are right, but the house is so disorganized

You got to deal with the blue dogs and the progressives who are both stubborn. Obama needs to be bold and show some leadership

[JVS]

5. This issue has become a quagmire. I can accept them getting out. The insurance companies...

are nearing collapse from the market situation anyway. By the time the proposed HCR kicks in, they might well be on their knees thanks to boomers aging.

[Political Heretic]

6. I hope you're wrong.

This bill needs to die, because I believe it will actively make things worse for low income and working class families in the long run, not better, not even marginally better.

It's heartbreaking to me that people who desperately need health care won't have their needs met, but sadly this bill will not effectively meet their needs either, not in the long run. Insufficient subsidies, the failure to responsibly limit out of pocket expenses, massive loopholes and omissions in regulation and oversight of insurers and on and on and on make this bill literally a NEGATIVE for working families...

When considering legislation, we need to adopt the DO NO HARM principle. This bill HARMS. Thus it needs to die, not matter how sad that is.

[ibegurpard]

7. Agreed

I really don't think people had this in mind when we were actually given the hope that we would see healthcare reform.

[flamingdem]

9. Think more broadly, it helps millions, that's something, amendments can happen nt

[Political Heretic]

13. I believe it will actually harm millions, not help millions, in the long run.

Though it is possible that it will help some upper middle class or mid-middle class suburbanites a little bit, while being worse than nothing for poor and working class families.

Worse than not having insurance? Yep, because it codifies a system you can't afford to access into law and removes all motivation for change. Worse for poor people barely hanging on to insurance?

Yep. Worse because of insufficient subsidies, and the failure to adequately contain out of pocket-costs, meaning that if you ever have to actually USE your health insurance, you'll be facing bankruptcy from medical bills, or loss of your home, or worse.

It's not helping millions. It's about scoring some cheap political "victory" - now more than ever its about that. And I the bill appears to me to set things up to do long term harm to millions of people in need of better more affordable insurance.

[scheming daemons]

15. If this bill dies, HCR will not be taken up by another congress in your lifetime

ever again.



Hope you like the status quo. You're stuck with it.. we all are... now.

[Political Heretic]

18. That doesn't change the fact that this bill does harm.

The OPINION that no one will take up health reform again in my lifetime doesn't some how make it ok to pass a bill that I believe will harm working class families over the long run.

Better to do nothing than to harm. I don't like doing nothing, and I don't like the idea of not finding the courage to keep tackling this issue until we get what we deserve. But even if you're right, it doesn't justify passing a bad bill.

Pretty simple.

[Vattel]

20. I just don't see why

you think this bill will hurt low income and working families. "Insufficient subsidies"? The poor would have a 100% subsidy. "The failure to responsibly limit out of pocket expenses"? Are you suggesting that out of pocket expenses are lower now than they would be with this Bill? I would need to see an argument there. "Massive loopholes and omissions in regulation and oversight of insurers"? But there is some useful regulation that would be established if the Bill passes, which can be built upon, and which is better than the near absence of regulation that we have now.

[Oregone]

12. This is all just a chess move

The final compromise bill with the Republicans will create the best of all possible worlds

[kayla9170]

14. It's Over..........The Fat Lady is Singing High Notes..........

Not going to get done today, tomorrow or ever.......And we can blame ourselves...

[robcon]

23. Blame ourseves??? Blame those who supported healthcare?

wtf?

[CreekDog]

25. I ain't blaming myself

I do far less important projects at work and have a backup plan or plans should things go wrong.

Do you think I would have been in Rahm's job and *NOT* know what our message on health care would be the day after a Coakley loss? No freaking way!

:wtf:

[eridani]

19. Shitcan the bill and write one expanding Medicaid and Medicare

If all we can get is incrementalism, start with programs that fucking WORK right now!

[Clio the Leo]

21. well said! NT