Do you think Obama should have made the rethugs come to him?

[babylonsister]

I think this was a great exchange, Obama won, and I don't care where it happened.

But here's digby, and she thinks Obama lowered himself. What do you think?


http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/what-works-by-digby-heres-how-cnn-is.html

I think his performance was quite good. But I also think that his appearance there, as if he'd been summoned to explain himself, looks like weakness, especailly in a week in which he already gave a major address. The optics look very dicey to me.

[Peacetrain]

1. It was just fine.. and even better because he smacked them down in

their place of power.. Makes it all the sweeter

[pinto]

2. Eh. He was invited, took the opportunity and scored any number of points.

"But I also think that his appearance there, as if he'd been summoned to explain himself, looks like weakness" - is a stretch, at best.

[babylonsister]

4. I agree. nt

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. I think he did the right thing...

By going to them, and confronting them in their own place, he scored big time.

He was in enemy territory as it were, and that increases the victory!

It's easy to be strong when you're in friendly territory, it seems to me...

That's my take on it, anyway...

[babylonsister]

5. Peggy!

Are you feeling better after this "positive" week? I hope so. :hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

11. I sure am...

Thanks, sweetie...:hug:

[scheming daemons]

6. No... the optics of it were better with him going to the "lion's den"...

If they would've come to him, it would have been spun completely differently.... as him "lecturing" them.



This was ideal. Him going to THEM is the exact right stagecraft for this.... makes it plain to the American people that he is REACHING OUT to the "party of NO".

[jillan]

17. I agree 100% - was much more effective this way.

[FrenchieCat]

7. Going into a off the set Lion's den takes courage and is not for wimps......

Obama has the confidence that this writer obviously doesn't have.
He wasn't worried about "how it was going to look",
specifically because of the type of person he is; one who
isn't into the politics for the sake of politics,
but for the sake of gettin' her done.

Too bad that this digby person writing is so into the optics and not the substance,
till they are still shivering while typing anonimously on their keyboard about
what's what.

[babylonsister]

14. I like digby, she's very astute usually, but she sounds unusually

tone deaf today. No matter, I know where you stand. :fistbump: I do, too.

[scheming daemons]

8. Winning a "road" game is ALWAYS more impressive than winning a "home" game

[Cha]

10. Well there ya go!

[Cha]

9. I think they're are so many

who have to have some angle other than it is what it is.

Woulda shoulda coulda counts zilch and President Obama didn't lower himself AT ALL..in fact he went into the gop lions' den and mauled the lions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/29/obama-goes-to-the-gop-lio_n_442331.html

[stray cat]

12. No - Why would they?

[MadBadger]

13. As long as he had that podium and the seal, it's fine.

[BlueIdaho]

15. No - he burned their house down. It was beautiful.

[Clio the Leo]

16. The key to any negotiation is to be the first to conceded something...

.... now, whether this will be a SUCCESSFUL negotiation is doubtful.

... unless the the party he was negotiating with was the American people.

In that case ..... DONE!

[bigwillq]

18. No (nt)

[zbdent]

19. It really was set up for Boner to hand the blank sheet with the GOP "alternative"

to Obama on camera ...

Problem was, Obama did more than just sit there and take it ...

[MadMaddie]

20. No! Because we live in America and

whether it's sports or politics when you go into your rivals house and kick their ass......that is American gold.

No this was the right thing to do at the right time.

[scentopine]

21. I agree - this just further legitimizes the right wing and give them more power

imagine if he was so interested and concerned about the "left" wing!

Nah - Rahm knows he's got us in the bag.

Right?

[DFLforever]

24. Sorry, we might not like them but GOP congressmen

are legitimate. They do win their elections just like the Democrats.
The don't have any more or less legitimacy today than they had yesterday before Obama addressed their retreat.

It's their ideas and tactics that are questionable and those the President completely eviscerated today.

[scentopine]

26. Republican ideas and tatics are working - we are moving farther and farther to the right

Thanks for your reply.

This shows that republicans have enough power to pull a president in. I listened to a good part of the Obama lecture, I just don't see this as the same smack down everyone else sees.

It might easily backfire. I don't care about republicans they can take care of themselves. I care about liberals. If the democratic party wants easy support they should work as hard for those of us at the liberal grass roots support level as they do stroking republican egos.

The republicans so completely control the debate that even when the "lose" they win - even as a minority they have enormous power and influence over legislation in a way democrats never had during Bush years (and I would argue Clinton) years.

As a liberal I just don't get it, I'm not stupid - I simply don't agree with the approach and politics at work here.

Sort of like cheap talk at Wall Street for outrageous salaries while rest of country is suffering. Wall Street was so moved by the lecture they voted themselves another 10%. Obama should have imposed the equivalent of martial law on these fuckers.

Time for talk is over. The time for lectures is over. We need action. Until then its all meaningless theater. We need to view this event with great caution before slapping each other on the back with mission accomplished bumper stickers.

Sorry to be the party pooper, but I've had it with his lectures. With out hard policy behind the lectures - when he finishes out his term, we will be left with nothing but the hollow echoes of high minded rhetoric - potentially facing a stronger republican party who knows how to get legislation passed when they control the house and senate and supreme court and executive branch.

[DFLforever]

28. First, I think you greatly over-estimate the power and

persuasion of the Republican Party. Although they do have the key advantage of controlling the media. Right-wing populists are alive and well. That's been an enduring part of American history, especially during hard times. No one likes the banks. Greed, resentment, envy. It's not an attractive picture. I think the administration should have extracted more blood in public and cut better deals for the taxpayers in private.But no American president whether it's Obama, McCain, Kucinich, Sanders is going to risk destroying the American financial systems, in fact is going to do everything to buttress it. As Roosevelt did.

Call me old-fashioned but I think it's the job of liberals to support their
president not vise versa.. I don't see him getting much support from people on some key projects like closing Gitmo. He's seems to be the only Democrat in the country supporting it.

Imo, he's not trying to bring GOP congressmen over to his way of thinking He's trying to neuter them, and the impact of their bs on the American electorate. He's the president as educator here. Using the bully pulpit.
It's a chief function of his office

[scentopine]

32. LOL! When we elect a liberal president, I will certainly support him/her

Bully pulpit is more than just talk - on the big issues I care about

War
Wall Street Banking Reform
Health Care
Torture
Outsourcing
Tax Cuts and tax credits for the Rich
Investigation of Bush/cheney War lies
Job stimulus
Wall Street insiders controlling treasury/fed
Lobbyists

There has been little for me to celebrate. In fact I am angry - and I don't care if being angry is out of fashion.

I will allow you to come back and remind me how wrong I was - however I predict this will backfire and has garnered unnecessary attention and energy galvanizing the wrong side of the isle and what really pissed me off is when he says (as he has repeatedly) "those on the left" I'm one of "those on the left" who believes he has over reached in his outreach to the right wing. I don't agree with his approach I will not be helping to support the democratic party with financing or labor as I have in the past. I'll reconsider when I see some real improvement for the middle class.

I would like to see the same energy and concern for those of us on the left. He is not a king - we are not his subjects. This is a representative democracy and he is not offering solid solutions to the problems I have listed above.

Nothing at all will change the republicans, nothing will neuter them. I don't want lectures I want to see him drive home banking reform with the same amount of passion and energy he puts into winning the hearts and minds of republicans.

He opened a can of whoop ass in Afghanistan, here at home, not so much.

These views make me the "extreme" left. In the 1970's I held the same views and was considered conservative. How times have changed. Now I'm an extremist leftist. We elect a representative and a public servant - I don't expect to be lectured about my liberalism nor do I like being talked down to like I am an employee.

No liberal president would ever talk down to liberals the way Obama does. He can get away with it because he knows liberals are generally reviled in both parties (hell, the DLC was created to purge the last vestiges of liberalism from the democratic party) while conservatives are respected in both parties - hence all his devotion to conservative peace making.

So I have to respectfully disagree with the premise that this is an important smack down. I believe it will backfire and will be seen as a concession and sign of weakness or desperation in the long run - and it may start a trend where republicans simply do the same thing - only in a more dis-honest and destructive manner - something they are experts at.

[Cha]

29. No it doesn't..you or digby can't spin

this in to anything but the gop getting their asses handed to them by a Democratic President who accepted their invitation to speak and answer questions.. and brought cameras with him.

"The net effect is that Obama looked serious, reasonable and intelligent. The Republicans got to sound like whiners, complaining about various pet peeves and chewing over their old laundry list of tax cuts and opposition".

<more>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2010/jan/29/barack-obama-republicans

[JI7]

22. no

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

23. Digby is wrong. He kicked their asses in their own house. He looked like the leader.

When I have class every Monday night, I go to my students in *their* classroom. I teach political science, and based on the looks of things, the president was teaching the Repukes Civics 101 today!

[TankLV]

25. What part of TRYING to tell us that OBAMA HASN'T REACHED OUT TO REPUKES - EVER!!!

don't you understand?!!!

This has been the repuke mantra for the WHOLE YEAR now, and the MSM laps it up and regurgitates it verbatum.

I'm not scolding you - but just pointing out how this was a brilliant move, and now the repukes - again - have nothing to complain about - but I'm sure that won't stop them from doing it - again!!!

[OHdem10]

27. He showed courage to go on to their playing field and win.

[donheld]

30. He did the right thing!

He showed them, and others, he's not afraid to be aggressive when he needs to be and in front of the Television cameras.

[frazzled]

31. Jeebus, has Digby been taking dumb pills lately?

"as if he'd been summoned to explain himself." Hell no. He was like the confident warrior who has no fears or doubts about walking into the arena, because he has a job to do, and is absolutely fearless, and completely confident in his abilities to face his opponents. Why do you think he insisted the cameras be there?

Optics schmoptics. Digby used to be smart, until she started hanging out with the likes of Jane Hamsher. As your momma used to say, pick your friends wisely; they can really drag you down.

[niceypoo]

33. I wouldn't really call it an exchange

More like a simple reality check. The GOP 'leaders' obviously believe their own rhetoric. Peel away the bumper sticker and there is nothing left to go on.

[damonm]

34. Digby's dead wrong...

It's always more of a defeat when you lose big on your home turf, and that's EXACTLY what happened to the thugs today.

[Monk06]

35. They did come to him and they came with nuthin' Sun Tsu

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. "