Sanders: Obama Has Tragically Lost The Youth, Antagonized Unions

[IndianaGreen]

Sanders: Obama Has Tragically Lost The Youth, Antagonized Unions

A trio of the Senate's leading progressives expressed concern on Wednesday that President Obama has squandered the transformational political coalition that propelled him into office, concluding that he will pay a price for it.

Speaking at a progressive media summit, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) called it a "tragic mistake" that the White House fruitlessly chased Republican votes on health care rather than take advantage of the ripe environment to pass legislation.

"What is very sad is we had hopes that (the) election was transformational in the sense of bringing people into the political process who have never been in it before," Sanders said. "I tried very hard in Vermont to bring young people into the political process. It is very hard to do. Obama did it. But you know where those young people are now? They are not in the political process. They really aren't. We have lost them. We have antagonized trade unionists. We have not done well with seniors. I don't think we have done well with women. And I think that was a tragic mistake."

Certainly, the Vermont Independent was tossing red meat to the liberal crowd. A cadre of bloggers, talk show hosts and radio personalities at the forum repeatedly pressed the senators in attendance to be more aggressive at selling the Democratic agenda -- whether on television or in discussions with the White House.

Alongside Sanders, Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) acknowledged that the president's commitments, specifically in regard to health care reform, had come up short. Discussing the idea of Medicare expansion, he said that the Senate didn't have the will to pursue such a policy because "the president wasn't going to fight for it."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/10/sanders-obama-has-tragica_n_493845.html

[depakid]

1. Young people are far more easily disillusioned

and more inclined to support those who are perceived as fighting for their interests, as opposed to compromising them away.

[IndianaGreen]

2. We had enough BOHICA to go around!

An historic opportunity has been pissed away by reformists and revisionists.

[Oregone]

6. Their hearts are still connected to their brains

[polichick]

47. Well said. :)

[Skittles]

3. tragically? more like by design

[Uzybone]

4. "A cadre of bloggers, talk show hosts and radio personalities"

(sigh)

[DFab420]

5. Ehh..

So I'm a young person who knows alot of other young people and what I can say is this.

We love President Obama, we understand he IS fighting for us, just cause he isn't loud and boorish doesn't mean he isn't fighting

Do you know where those young people are now? We are trying to find work, we are studying in school, and we are sitting back and watching the politicians eat each other alive.

Also I think it is remiss of us to believe Obama has squandered anything, it's been a year, I guess us young people are more patient then these old codgers who are ready to through the President under the bus after just one year of trying to rise above pettiness. But don't take my word for it, I'm just a young person, what do I know....

[LisaM]

9. OK fine. So where were all your patient young voting friends

during the Massachusetts senate election? Where will they be this fall? Voting is not a one-time shot. You need to give the people you elected the tools (including large majorities) to be able to get four years worth of a Democratic house and Senate so that things can get done.

The low turnout in the Mass senate race really pissed me off.

[DFab420]

10. Mass.?

Oh yea cause the Martha Coakley option was just awesome!! Sorry that Brown ran a better campaign against a woman who thought she deserved to be were she was.

That wasn't the young peoples fault, that was the Democratic Party's fault...

[depakid]

14. +1

[LisaM]

18. I'm just saying

People who really believe that strongly in Obama can't just fade away and refuse to give him the help he needs. You can go ahead and blame the candidates (though I think that Martha Coakley probably would have made a good senator) or the campaigns, but the point is, if voters who came out so strongly for Obama don't continue to show up for elections in like numbers, he will not be able to get anything done.

[DFab420]

23. I suppose...however.

Ok I agree, however Mass. was one, special election. That took place right after the whole Presidential election cycle (I say right after but obviously was months after, you know what I mean). Don't write off your horse till the race in ran.

Also young people are fickle, if you treat us like we have given up, we might just to it to show what given up really looks like. So please, don't start in with the us not being there till after the elections, or even after the first Presidential term.

[Uzybone]

32. Frankly some on the "left'" would prefer the young to be disillusioned

[DFab420]

34. :-)

It's cause we are dangerous...

[Radical Activist]

71. Yes, many push cynicism and it's incredibly destructive.

It doesn't get young people to go green or socialist or anarchist or switch to direct action tactics. It makes people give up and become politically irrelevant.

[LisaM]

37. It's clearly not just young people

however, there were a lot of people who turned out in 2008 that were very excited about Obama and got engaged in the process because of him. That was great, and there was a lot of energy. But I think those people, especially newcomers to politics, should now consider that they are in partnership with Obama. He can't do it alone, and there is a lot of negative energy on the other side to fight him.

Obama was not my first choice of candidate, but I have tried to support him, and I have not even missed a local election since he came to office. I certainly wouldn't miss one for senate.

[OhioBlue]

50. It just isn't going to happen

The young people and the other volunteers for the Obama campaign just aren't going to be there in the numbers they were nor with the energy they were in '08. I know. I put a ton of stuff on hold to volunteer 40 hours a week, while working 40 hours and trying to run a household and take care of my son. A lot of people have similar stories - they went back to school, went back to their routine.... the crazy hours we pulled during the election weren't sustainable. I'll volunteer this year for sure - but it won't be the same. It will probably never be the same.

[Juche]

64. We were taking our country back in 2008

It probably won't feel that way again, that election was special. That was the first cycle I volunteered and donated money.

[OhioBlue]

113. my first was '04

and there was never a structure in place for my little rural county to do much of anything. '08 was very special - we had paid staff for the first time ever in a campaign on site and dedicated to organizing our County.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. The youth vote let her win the Primary in the fist place

next excuse?

[DFab420]

87. Truth..However..

"Coakley won 47 percent of the Democratic vote with nearly all precincts reporting, easily outdistancing her closest competitor, Rep. Michael Capuano, who finished with 28 percent.


The two other Democrats, Civic activist Alan Khazei and Boston Celtics co-owner Stephen Pagliuca, both received about 13% of the vote. "

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/30376.html

Sorry we only had 2 months to figure out who was who before the vote. Where were all you "old codgers" (your words not mine) in that election? Don't just scapegoat the young voters please and thank you..

[gateley]

83. Agree totally.

And welcome to DU! :hi:

I'm thrilled that we have people of your age here and it gives me hope because you're engaged in what's going on (as opposed to my niece and nephew, for example :grr:)

So thanks for being here -- and thanks for caring!

[truedelphi]

104. And one really has to wonder if this isn't all pre-arranged.

In California, the gubernatorial races are pre-arranged to go to the repugs.

Except that this time, since the Huge Power That is Herself now is running for the governorship, I imagine that Di Fi will really pull out all the stops to see she gets the post.

But even if she does, she won't do a damn thing different than Meg Whitman.

We get to choose between the devil and Belzeebub.

[QC]

60. They were too busy installing grommets in their earlobes

to make it to the polls.

[Juche]

62. What was the motivation?

What was the dem motivation? The GOP, even if they won, still would not control the senate. So they would not be able to pass destructive legislation.

Even if the dems won all it means is that a fractured coalition hijacked by the most conservative members in the senate still got to call all the shots because the GOP was wantonly abusing the rules of the filibuster. So you'd still have a situation where Lincoln and Lieberman had all the power. And for many people, voting for upholding a weak coalition that depends on Lieberman's bitterness against progressives (which is why he took the medicare buy in out) wasn't worth fighting too hard for.

There wasn't any motivation on the dem side. The best the dems could hope for was more disappointment in the senate. So people stayed home.

If someone like Alan Grayson, Sherrod Brown, Sanders, etc were running in MA, you would've seen turnout. But in that case, you'd be voting for the candidate and not for the party. With Coakley, there was no motivation to vote for the candidate or motivation to vote for the party. That is the way I saw it.

[gateley]

82. Why pick on him/her? Where the fuck were the rest of us? I did some calling,

sent in a paltry contribution, but there's only so much one person can do -- from the other side of the country, no less. And only so much you can do when the candidate herself seems as though she doesn't really care.

The low turnout really pissed me off, too, but you can't blame that solely on the young voters. Maybe they DID turn out -- and voted for Brown? :shrug:

[rhett o rick]

105. The Mass Senator race is a great example of why the youth and a lot others

are disillusioned. Whereas Obama came on to the left as a fresh, let's clean up Washington during his campaign, in Mass it was back to backroom politics as usual. The machine took over and gave the voters Coakley who managed to lose Ted Kennedy's Senate seat. There is a lesson here. We dont want Coakley, Lieberman, Specter. We dont want Rahmbo and the DLC. Get it???? If the Democratic machine says DLC or Republican, the answer is fuck you. I am soo sick of people saying "well isnt Joe Lieberman better than Stalin?" So the DLC says "do you want to die slowly or die quickly". Your choice. Be sure and vote.

[girl gone mad]

20. Not sure how you can claim that the President is trying to "rise above pettiness"..

when he appoints a chief of staff like Rahm Emanuel.

[DFab420]

27. haha

just had to get a jab at Rahm in there somehow huh?

[girl gone mad]

41. It wasn't meant as a jab at Rahm.

If the President were truly attempting to rise above petty Washington politics, he would not have people like Rahm Emanuel in his cabinet.

[Xithras]

40. Your friends are unusual then.

There has been a paradigm shift among the students in my classes. Normally, my students are fairly apathetic towards politics, with only a few firebrands making their opinions known each semester. Most readily admit that they don't vote, and aren't registered.

2008 was different. Everyone was fired up, and when I asked a class who was registered and voting before the November election, practically every hand in the room shot up. The students were fired up, saw real change coming, and wanted to be involved. Between Obama and Prop 8, everyone had an opinion and wanted to discuss it (which is incredibly fun when you're teaching a Fundamentals of Logical Thinking course).

Now? The apathy is back. This semester we've largely confined our discussions to topics other than politics because so few students care and are up to speed on it. When I ask specifically about politics, the opinions I get back are mixed...some still support him strongly, a lot oppose him, but the overwhelming majority just don't care anymore. Even healthcare reform couldn't sustain more than a 10 minute conversation. Whatever fire Obama had placed in them is gone.

Part of it, I think, has been his focus. Healthcare reform may be important to the nation as a whole, but it's barely on the radar of college students. Most students are either covered by their parents or by the dirt cheap student plans available on campus, so they've never really had to deal with it. Obama got the youth vote fired up, and has since dedicated his presidency to a topic they really aren't that interested in. I can tell you, from DOZENS of conversations with HUNDREDS of students, that they were more interested in the wars, in environmental reform, and in economic recovery so they'll have jobs when they graduate in a couple of years. So far, he's zero-for-three on their topics of interest.

[Radical Activist]

69. So why chalk it up to apathy?

It's a patronizing way to explain it.

You're right that Obama isn't dealing with the top issues of young voters. The fact is, health care reform will be a huge income redistribution from the young to the aging, just as Social Security and Medicare have taken a huge chunk of their high school and college job income. No one is articulating their interests so why should they be engaged?

And why should anyone expect young people to pay attention when no one is speaking to them? The press doesn't cover anything from a youth perspective. Pro-Obama voices in the media who they might identify with are almost non-existent. He's attacked from the right and attacked from the left while journalists try not to get accused of liberal bias.

Not being interested in national politics is a perfectly rational response. I've seen students in particular get more involved in local and campus issues, which is encouraging and unsurprising given the national picture.

[Xithras]

73. There's nothing condescending or patronizing about calling it apathy

The definition of apathy, from my handy American Heritage dictionary: "Lack of interest or concern, especially regarding matters of general importance or appeal." Apathy, generally, refers to a disinterest in subjects that others find important. Most of the nation is fired up about the healthcare debate on one side or the other, but young voters aren't on a broad scale because it isn't an issue that impacts most of them. That's pretty much a textbook definition of apathy. It's not a slur.

health care reform will be a huge income redistribution from the young to the aging

The irony of that statement is that, throughout human history, the aging have always had more resources, wealth, and assets than the young. According to the census numbers, most people don't start making a decent wage until their late 20's, and don't start building any real net worth until their mid 30's. Generally speaking, the older you are, the more you have. From that perspective, it's an income redistribution from the have-nots to the have-mores.

It's a good point, and I wish my students would realize that, but I don't preach politics to them and they aren't interested. When we have our open discussions, the students pick the topics and engage in conversations and impromptu debates between each other. I rarely propose topics and don't really participate in them at all, except to act as a moderator and to interject tidbits that encourage the students to think and discuss their positions from a logical perspective rather than an emotional or combative one. That's the point of the course, after all.

[Bette Noir]

109. No.

It's putting everybody in one pot, so no one goes broke when they get sick or hurt. Sure, older people are more likely to need care for arthritis or heart disease, but young people are more likely to need coverage for maternity expenses or motorcycle accidents.

When I was in my 20s, a single mother with a little child and a job (and sometimes two and three) that didn't provide benefits, I would have given anything to have health insurance for myself and my daughter. One could say I did-- I got married for health insurance. No one should have to do that.

[Xithras]

112. Which disputes the point...how?

Private insurance for a person under 35 is a bad deal about 90% of the time, because the amount you will spend on insurance is nearly always more than your actual healthcare expenses. The average healthcare outlay for an American under age 35 was right around $3000 last year, while the average health INSURANCE cost was over $12000. For Americans under age 25, the cost is even lower, with the average American spending as little as $400 a year on healthcare.

What you're saying is simple. The young who don't use much should subsidize the elderly who do. The problem with that notion is that the census and demographic numbers are quite clear...the older you are, the more resources you have available to you. Ergo, the "have-nots" are subsidizing the "have-mores". Older people are more likely to have savings, homes, and other resources that can be tapped. The young don't.

REAL healthcare reform would raise the boat for EVERYONE. This legislation fails horribly in that regard.

[roguevalley]

57. ah yes. the wisdom of youth based on decades of ....

old codgers, eh? When you and the youth vote, vote in every single election in every place you live, from local to national, in numbers that are huge and steady every year, like old codgers, I will take you seriously. Until then, not so much.

[Radical Activist]

67. When old codgers starting voting 2/3 for Democrats

instead of the ass-hats babyboomers elected like Nixon and Reagan, then I'll take them more seriously.

[joe black]

76. Broad brush much?

I'm a dreaded boomer that voted Democrat since I got back from
Vietnam,, some40 years ago.

[roguevalley]

63. when like translates to vote then this is good news. but i remember

back into the day when popular candidates couldn't rouse kids to vote.

[Radical Activist]

68. Yep. Most young voters are more savvy.

They don't buy into every article with the latest unnamed source hinting that Obama is betraying them again. He's clearly pushing hard for his agenda.

The downside is that the issues young voters care about more get less press attention and are on the sidelines. Obama needs to deliver on a few agenda items young people care about before the midterm election.

[Orlandodem]

7. Teacher here. He has lost me.

I won't be scapegoated by him and his Education Secretary and vote for him a 2nd time. Period. End of story.

[DFab420]

11. kthxbye...

Good, go vote for Romney then. Or Palin. Or McCain, or Bush III. Or whoever you want. Cause I'm sure they all would have done much better with the No Child Left Behind mess than President Obama has..

[IndianaGreen]

13. That dog won't hunt no more!

We have learned that the two party system has failed the republic, and the Constitution. The old adage that the two major parties are two wings of the same bird of prey comes to mind.

[DFab420]

26. Hear Hear

I agree, the two party system is detrimental to the integrity of this country. However, as I have learned in my short time here on earth, sometimes you just have to work with what was given to you.

[emilyg]

17. Get a new line - that just

doesn't work anymore.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raineyb]

48. That shit doesn't work anymore. Frankly it was old when people tried it with Clinton.

Oh and this isn't a cell phone. Do you really expect people to take you seriously with that texting foolishness?

[DFab420]

90. Don't even know why I'm responding but

I can't help myself

Not sure what shit your talking about with Clinton..the whole go vote for someone else thing?

You mean Nader?

also kthxbye is an internet mime

not a texting thing

[Raineyb]

97. The tired "Be quiet it's a Dem in charge now" routine.

That you don't know it means you're ignorant of history.

kthxbye is an ignorant lazy thing for the illiterate who can't be bothered to spell check.

None of these things reflect well on you.

[DFab420]

98. Ohhh....

that's what you meant when you said "That shit's tired" you meant the whole
""Be quiet it's a Dem in charge now" routine."

I'm sorry I missed that what you were inferring in your eloquent post of "shit's tired". It was difficult because I have yet to say anything in regards to "Be quiet a Dem is in charge now" What I have said was. Fine if you don't want to vote for President Obama next time around who would you choose and why. Also please defend this choice in light of the national stage.

kthxbye.

[Raineyb]

100. When you spout a version of the line and someone says it's tired

it means what you just spouted is tired? Now I have to explain the basics of reading to you?

I don't have time to deal with ignorant pissants today.

[DFab420]

102. Running out of things to say?

Oh your right I'm sorry you said "it was OLD when people TRIED it"

I said it was TIRED in reference to your saying it was OLD.

But this sentence.

"When you spout a version of the line and someone says it's tired it means what you just spouted is tired? "

Makes little sense structurally wise.

Also, here are some other words for you to use other than ignorant,
even though it seems to be a favorite of yours to go after people you disagree with.

witless
inexperienced
thick
obtuse
moronic
imbecilic

[Raineyb]

115. You forgot, idiotic, dim-witted, cretinous, and stupid. But I was trying to be polite

and stuck with ignorant as ignorance can be ameliorated while stupid, idiotic, dim-witted and cretinous implies that there's no hope. I guess I was wrong.

Go sit your dumb ass in front of the Playstation that seems to be more your stride. I would prefer to have discussions with someone who knows that the threat of Republican rule is not a new tactic used by the DLC.

[donco6]

51. Don't you have some weed to smoke? n/t

[DFab420]

86. Lolz

DO you respect me or my ideas less because I choose to smoke weed?

[donco6]

108. No, I don't respect your ideas because they're crap.

I just thought you could put yourself to better use.

[DFab420]

110. Wow.

Which ones in particular? And what about your ideas?

Ah so much for civility...P.S why is it if you disagree with someone they are automatically for of crap, or poop, or shit. Can we get past the feces please?

[donco6]

111. I would never say poop. It's unseemly. n/t

[roguevalley]

58. I don't know how old you are but some of us have been around long

enough to remember what our country used to be like and we have been through this kind of shit storm a few times. It comes from experience. And, I would say telling us to go vote for someone else is bullshit.

[DFab420]

88. ummm

What did our country used to be like?

40's - Great depression/ WWII

50's - Cold war and McCarthyism

60's - Hippies (hurray!) Vietnam, Kennedy assassination, Racial tensions, Cuban missiles

70's - Cocaine! (not so hurray), Disco, Nixon, Love Canal, worst Recession since Great Depression

80's - Regan-ism! AIDS becomes prevalent

90's - First Gulf Conflict, Blowjobs in the White House,

sooo... What exactly am I missing that made "what it used to be like" so good?

[seabeckind]

91. Old and disillusioned...

If I might jump in here...

What did our country used to be like?

40's - "Great depression" ended finally -- jobs.

50's - "Cold war and McCarthyism" -- more jobs, phenomonal expansion of the middle class and buying power.

60's - "Hippies (hurray!) Vietnam, Kennedy assassination, Racial tensions, Cuban missiles" -- more jobs. Vietnam sucked. Felt really bad about JFK, MLK and RFK. Civil rights. Went to the moon. Voted for the first time.

70's - "Cocaine! (not so hurray), Disco, Nixon, Love Canal, worst Recession since Great Depression" -- country woke up to the idea of environment, learned about OPEC the hard way. Music REALLY sucked.

80's - "Regan-ism! AIDS becomes prevalent" -- sucked BIG time. BTW, the 2 things you mentioned are related. He considered it god's punishment for "the gay". One of these days I've gotta visit his grave. Something I gotta do.

90's - "First Gulf Conflict, Blowjobs in the White House" -- did I mention jobs?

sooo... What exactly am I missing that made "what it used to be like" so good?

Jobs. Sense of worth. Not feeling like a piece of meat.

[DFab420]

92. Valid additions...

however..

40's - Population 132,122,000
Unemployed in 1940 - 8,120,000
And those jobs? Came from war production, then from an increase in work force size when the war eventually ended...


50's - Population: 151,684,000 (U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of the Census)*
Unemployed: 3,288,000

60's - Population 177,830,000
Unemployment 3,852,000

70's - Population: 204,879,000
Unemployed in 1970: 4,088,000

80's Population: 226,546,000
Unemployed in 1980: Doh. no actual number but interesting tidbit A mild recession from January to July 1980 kept unemployment high, but despite economic recovery unemployment remained at historically high levels (about 7.5%) through the end of 1981

90's - Population: 281,421,906 (2000 Census)
Unemployment: 5.8 million

I am sorry you don't have a sense of worth, or otherwise feel the American people don't, I do and it's not based solely on being employed. Although that does help.

source: http://kclibrary.lonestar.edu/decade40.html

[seabeckind]

94. Thanks for the numbers

I was never that good in arithmetic but the numbers seem to confirm my jobs idea.

Oh, and "feeling" was a bad choice of words. Being treated like a piece of meat is a better term. I've got absolutely no problem with self-worth. I also believe that the american people deserve a hel of a lot more. We've had to endure a lot of lying bulls--t. And it ain't all red. There's a bunch of blue in it.

[DFab420]

95. They confirm it..sorta..

Well all except that the jobs idea is that there were more jobs then there are today right?

Except that jobless rates have fluctuated between 4 and about 9.5% for the past sixty years, so while at any given point it was either up or down, it wasn't more or less secure then the job market today.

We do deserve more, but we also deserve the chance to give someone we put in power more then one and a quarter year to fix all the problems our country is facing.

People need to just breathe, realize this is a rough patch, but if we start calling for heads to roll, soon the people who are trying to help will just walk away before their head is put on the block.

[flyarm]

77. people have said that same shit before ..

and Reagan was elected!

Be careful what you say..and who and what you defend...it tends to backfire.

[Catshrink]

22. Me too!

[elizm]

70. Teacher here. Still on board. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Bizarre That This is Getting Unrecced

I guess the truth hurts most.

[mitchtv]

49. Let's give it a rec

for Unions

[democrank]

12. "Tragic mistake" indeed.

A squandered opportunity....

[uponit7771]

15. Um...no, Gallup showed Obama with the highest approval rating ever amongst 18-35 yr olds

[girl gone mad]

16. Just wait until they start getting the bill for health reform.

Today's youth already has it very tough. Being forced to buy an expensive insurance policy or else pay a fine is another added burden.

[DFab420]

19. Perhaps..

Better to get a bill for health reform that gives me coverage, then a bill for uninsured emergency room visits.

Healthcare coverage, whether its the PO or mandates are going to cost money, either way, you realize that right?

[girl gone mad]

24. Just using myself, my brother and my husband as examples..

none of us had insurance coverage in our 20s.

The total amount I spent on health care over the decade: $5000
The total amount I would have spent on insurance: $79,000


The total amount my brother spent on health care over the decade: $18,000 (he was hospitalized once, paid his bill in full)
The total amount my brother would have spent on insurance: $95,000


The total amount my husband spent on health care over the decade: $9,000 (that include TWO uninsured emergency room visits)
The total amount my brother would have spent on insurance: $115,000 (pre-existing condition, self-employed)


Be careful what you wish for.

[DFab420]

33. Interesting numbers..

Where are they coming from?

I also have no insurance in my 20s..luckily San Francisco happens to have a small public health option PAID for with money that was mandated from small businesses...

What I wish for is health insurance. I don't care if I pay for in out of my taxes, or a I pay for it out of my wallet. Either way my money should buy me health coverage.

[girl gone mad]

35. Your money will be buying you health insurance..

which is not the same thing as health care.

[DFab420]

39. Point.. but that is

what Obama is trying to change with HIR or HCR or whichever moniker you'd like. When I buy my mandate, which it looks like I'll have to do, I am assured coverage. This isn't just forcing people to buy private insurance who can just drop you later .it's forcing you to buy private insurance with federal oversight and guarantee of care. That's a HUGE difference if you ask me.

[girl gone mad]

42. There is no guarantee of care in this bill.

The only thing you're guaranteed is annual check-ups and basic screenings. Insurers might be required to cover more things, but they are free to stick you with high co-pays and deductibles and raise your premiums willy-nilly. They will still be able to get out of taking people with pre-existing conditions under the provisions for fraud, just like they do now.

This will set up a dual health care system in this country: 1 for people who can afford pay cash and get an insurance reimbursement later (if at all), and the other, a sort of assembly-line style network of doctors, clinics and hospitals that take the poor and give them low quality no-frills treatment.

[Jakes Progress]

54. Coverage is not care.

Insurance companies are corporations whose mandate it to make as much money as possible, by whatever means possible. Like AIG and BOA. They also had federal oversight. How did that work out for you? There is no guarantee of care. You are kidding yourself if you think an insurance company will volunteer to pay what they must for your care if they can find a way out of it if it means they must make one dime less. There will be precious little oversight and Obama's republican friends are working hard to make sure that what rules there are are not enforced because there will be no independent agency with powers. Any minor inconveniences that the insurance companies suffer because of some piddling rule will be quickly overturned just as the banking and investment community got their regulations eliminated so they could bring us the wonderful economy we have now.

Check out the battle going on right now. Obama pressures the insurance industry to support the bill. They say they will once it contains language to fully and forcefully punish anyone who doesn't get coverage. They want the bill. They want the mandates. They refuse to allow any oversight or regulations with any teeth. Just why do they love the bill so much? The only qualm the industry cites is the lack of severe enough punishment for those who don't pay them. They will get millions of new customers who pay the prices (no regulations there) they want. They will bleed everyone, deny what they want, and get your taxes to pay for profits that will come from those without insurance.

Trusting the insurance companies is a fool's game.

[flyarm]

78. coverage is not care..you won't be able to afford the care in this bill..you will only be buying

insurance..and you will be forced to do so..but you will not necessarily get any damn care for your dollars!

But don't listen to those of us who have lived long enough that understand the difference between insurance and Care...

but then again..don't cry alligator tears when you are totally fucked by this bill!

At that point I will not listen to a damn word you say when you are totally fucked..because your lack of Knowledge of insurance and care and your naivety will have fucked all of us!


Oh and were you one of those young ones that told us how evil Hilllary was because she proposed mandates ..and you and Obama were so against them?? In fact i recall being told by many young people then how evil Hillary was to even suggest mandates!

[bvar22]

30. Except with one,

we won't be paying for NEW Summer Homes in Aspen for Health Insurance Execs.
.
.
Unlike Obama, I DO "begrudge them their wealth."
They have made their fortunes off the backs of sick and dieing Americans by DENYING them access to Health Care.
I begrudge every single nickel,
and I will NOT give them so much as a nickel even if the Democratic Party decides to make me a criminal.

[girl gone mad]

36. You aren't alone. n/t

[asdjrocky]

25. Bernie do you hear that sound?

It's the bus coming.

[BeyondGeography]

29. You can scrape him off the pavement when he votes for HCR

and throw him under again.

[Uzybone]

31. LMAO

[flyarm]

80. he is going to have to jockey for a good spot under that bus..it is damn crowded under here!!n/t

[bvar22]

28. K&R...back UP to +5

He lost THIS Working Class Liberal Democrat.

[warm regards]

38. Don't worry, they'll all be back in 2012.

2010 could be a problem though.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. Then they are a worthless thing

No shows, inconsistent easily distracted, same as it ever was. Willing to maybe cast a vote every 4 years, if the commercials are good enough, and there's nothing else to do.

[flyarm]

81. nahhh they will be too busy with beer bong parties!! ..n/t

[cliffordu]

45. Yep - this is all a massive bummner.

I say we vote for Kucinich and call it a dayze.

[polichick]

46. Sad, but true - the WH pissed it all away because of a pathological need to please sociopaths...

The coalition could be rebuilt, but not without some enormous changes in the administration.

[democracy1st]

116. This is a Goldman Sachs admin the plan was set from the beginning

[Rosa Luxemburg]

52. Obama is not his own man

with the presidency you have people trying to run the show for you. If you don't go with the flow you are done for.

unfortunately that is what america has become.

[one_voice]

53. I'm not sure about losing the youth...

My son watched the entire process last year with me, from the primaries on. He wasn't old enough to vote but is now and will be voting in the mid-terms and the 2012 election. His girlfriend has started to follow a little more closely, mostly due to him and is looking forward to voting in the mid terms and in 2012. My daughter is 24, and voted for Obama, she's still a huge supporter as are all her friends. Many of my son's friends are also very involved now and big Obama supporters, most were unable to vote (too young) in '08 but are looking forward to voting this year and in 2012. Most of these kids are much more involved than I ever was at 18/19.

I think Obama will have the youth vote he had in '08 and many new young voters in 2012. As long as the economy gets stronger and unemployment goes down it'll happen. Many of them know the mess that was there, many of their parents were/are out of work so they see what's going on. A lot of the kids are watching what will happen on health care as well, having parents out of work makes them see things in a whole new way.

I also believe they see how badly the Republicans are acting, and they'll remember come election time.

Maybe I have more faith in them than I should, because I see a lot of my kids friends, their face book pages, etc.

I'm not happy with everything Obama has done, but I still support him and he hasn't lost my vote.

[vaberella]

55. And under the bus goes Sanders. n/t

[zulchzulu]

56. Bullshit...

When people realize that Republicans have a chance to get back in, they will work toward making that not happen.

If people are civics-challenged and don't have a clue that getting legislation passed demands lots of time and effort, then they probably don't vote anyway.

Do you think unions will go against the Democratic Party when election time comes and they see the possibility that anti-union Republicans might get in power?

If you've been following politics for more than a couple election cycles, you goddamn know that the youth (who care) and unions will work hard to beat Republicans.

This parlor talk is utter self-sputtering nonsense. And if people disagree with me and say they won't help out next time... fine. We got it covered.

[IndianaGreen]

61. That's the DLC argument. They keep themselves in power by using fear

just as the GOP did.

The Main Enemy Is At Home!

We have seen how when war broke out, the masses were captured for the capitalist aims of the war with enticing melodies from the ruling classes. We have seen how the shiny bubbles of demagogy burst, how the foolish dreams of August vanished, how, instead of happiness, suffering and misery came over the people; how the tears of war widows and war orphans swelled to great currents; how the maintenance of the three-class disgrace, the unrepentant canonization of the Quadrinity – semi-absolutism, junker rule, militarism, and police despotism – became bitter truth.

Through this experience we have been warned – learn everything, don't forget anything!

http://www.marxists.org/archive/liebknecht-k/works/1915/05/main-enemy-home.htm

[democracy1st]

59. K & R

[Juche]

65. Disappointed and lost aren't the same thing

The fact that trade unionists, progressives, youth and women are mad at the dems doesn't mean they/we will go out and vote republican, who are 10x worse on all the issues.

We are mad that the dems are not progressive enough. That doesn't mean we will go out and vote for Richard Shelby or Mike Pence anytime soon.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

74. No, but there are alternatives to voting Republican, and the DLC forgets that

Staying home (the least productive form of rebellion, since you are not counted at all)
Supporting primary challengers to DLCers
Writing in the primary challenger in the general election, even if s/he doesn't win the nomination
Voting third party

If the Dems keep acting like Republicans (not undoing anything Bush did and adding their own insults), voters may decide that there really isn't a dime's worth of difference between the two parties so they might as well have real Republicans in office so they don't feel so deceived.

I intend to vote for Keith Ellison in 2010, but if Amy Klobuchar were up for re-election, I'd vote for whoever her primary challenger was.

[CreekDog]

66. Sanders is right

as he always is. :(

[DisgustedInMN]

72. Truth to power, as always.

Thank you, Sen. Sanders.

[EndElectoral]

75. Sanders is correct, but it is not only the youth disillusioned, older progressives like me as well

[Hello_Kitty]

79. Let's be honest, it wasn't that he fruitlessly chased Republican votes.

It's that he appeased corporate interests. "Centrism" is a false construct that exists only in DC Village propaganda. Centrism should more accurately be called corporatism.

[gateley]

84. It would behoove Obama to at least consider Bernie's message. It's never too

late to turn the boat around.

[MarjorieG]

85. I still don't how to pass legislation with the Congress we have, and that's the goal-not rhetoric.

[Jackpine Radical]

89. Pfffffft! Unions, kids--who cares?

He has the banks, the health insurance industry and the Military-Industrial Complex in his pocket.

[DisgustedInMN]

107. A slight correction...

... he doesn't have them in his pocket, they have him in theirs.

[seabeckind]

93. I stand with Bernie

I've got good health insurance and it's a very good thing.

I don't need a job right now.

But the country needs these things and needs to be turned around. The current "leaders" aren't doing it.

You say "but isn't a bad dem better than a worse repub"?

No. Just degrees of badness -- I choose not to take that bet cause I lose either way.

I'll vote and contribute locally. When the time comes, I'll take my obama sweatshirt, cross out his name, and write Kucinich '12 on it.

Otherwise I'll leave that space on my ballot blank.

[treestar]

96. They are back in school or trying to find jobs

So young people cared at election time and now aren't so interested and are doing other things! OMG!

[DFab420]

99. +1

It's a travesty! How dare they try and focus on their lives for a second or two! :sarcasm:

[Raineyb]

101. Funny a good number of us who are not considered part of the youth vote are doing the same thing

and we manage to find time to go out and vote.

[DFab420]

103. Oh yea?

What major election did you take part in since the Presidential one?

Massachusetts?

California budget votes?

Illinois Congressional?

I voted in the California one since I live here, but the other unfortunately didn't seem to let me...

[Raineyb]

114. I vote where I live.

Which I'm not sharing with an obnoxious pissant. What is your fucking point? Or are you just typing to see your words on the screen?

[swilton]

106. The President won't pay a price for it

the people are going to have to pay