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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:48 AM
Original message
Shove It!
For the past few weeks, we have all been “treated” to the latest in a long list of RW talking points: “The president and his party are trying to shove healthcare reform down the American people’s throats.”

There’s no way you could have missed it – because, as always, the exact same phrase has been used by every GOPer, on every newscast, on every TV/radio political program, in every statement to the media.

This is, as we’ve all come to know, par for the course when the Republicans want to shove their own agenda down our collective throats. Needless to say, such statements would come across as a spontaneous personal reaction if paraphrased rather than repeated verbatim. But that would require a bit of imagination and creativity, something the GOP lacks in abundance.

Well, if we’re going to talk about shoving things down people’s throats, let’s talk turkey – specifically a plastic turkey, served with all of the traditional synthetic trimmings, a dish perfected by the POP (photo-op party), who had no shame in declaring their “strong on national defence” credentials after the attacks of 9-11 happened on their watch.

For eight years, what I had shoved down my throat was the idea that a scatterbrained idiot was legitimately elected to the presidency, that his ignorance and downright stupidity was an example of down-home charm, that his inability to prove fulfillment of his military service was of no consequence, that his drunken displays in public forums were a matter of an unfortunate misunderestimation of a complete and utter failure who had finally achieved his rightful place as a cowboy-booted frat boy who made good – thanks to a well-stacked-in-the-GOP’s-favor Supreme Court, and a complicit mainstream media that – despite it’s legendary liberal bias – was all too willing to look the other way.

I had it shoved down my throat that the invasion of Iraq was justified due to weapons of mass destruction that never existed, that purple thumbs were proof of success despite hundreds of thousands of casualties, that the photos from Abu Ghraib were demonstrative of a “few bad apples”, that the Constitution was merely a piece of paper that shouldn’t be given too much weight in a democracy founded upon its principles, that deficits don’t matter, that regulation of institutions like banks and insurance companies was a stranglehold on honest people trying to make an honest living, that taxing the wealthy was counter-productive when we can simply “borrow” money from foreign nations to foot the exorbitant bills run up by an administration intent on waging wars that, coincidently enough, resulted in personal financial gain through the awarding of no-bid, no-questions-asked contracts to corporations that just happened to have administration friends as major shareholders.

I had it shoved down my throat that certain self-proclaimed “good Christians”, following devoutly in the footsteps of the Prince of Peace, had come to believe that torture is acceptable, while the denial of equal rights to gays and lesbians is an abomination before the Lord Jesus Christ (and yeppurs, that’s the same JC who, according to the New Testament, never spoke word one condemning homosexuality – go figure.)

And even now, the throat-shoving behaviour continues – and my gag reflex is in overdrive.

I am told that the Teabaggers are a grassroots movement, meaning that people who can’t even spell the words on their protest signs had the intellectual wherewithal to organize nation-wide protests of – well, they can’t really explain what it is they’re protesting – but, God-damn it, they mean it. I suppose that passion alone explains why the MSM shoves coverage of their every event – as poorly attended as they may be – down my throat, while having completely ignored worldwide protests of the War in Iraq as being of little consequence.

I am told that the “Best Political Team on TV” is comprised of people who wouldn’t know a fact if it bit them in the ass. I am also being led to believe that the MSM has always been on the case, keeping ‘em honest and all – although they still can’t provide any proof that they were on W’s case when he was selling a nation down the river while strummin’ the ol’ gee-tar as an American city drowned.

In addition to the aforementioned down-the-throat-shoving with a fuckin’ backhoe, I have been told repeatedly that FOX-News is a legitimate news source, that a drug-addled tub-o’-lard like Rush Limbaugh is a patriotic American, that Glenn Beck has his country’s best interests at heart, that a woman who couldn’t name a single newspaper that she regularly reads was the stuff great vice-presidents are made of, that in-your-face whack-job Orly Taitz actually knows whereof she speaks, that Liz Cheney is someone whose opinion on anything should be front-and-center on every Sunday political news show, that global warming is a hoax because it still snows in the wintertime, that the Earth was created 6,000 years ago (and just might be flat!), that separation of Church and State was a momentary whim of the Founding Fathers and was never meant to be taken seriously, that racism doesn’t play a role in RW politics when newsletters to the faithful include a photo-shopped image of the President as a white-faced “Joker”, that the mainstream media isn’t complicit in spreading RW propaganda despite the fact that it is only interested in keeping ‘em honest when it’s a Democrat in office as opposed to a Republican.

While I’m on the topic, let me add a few more things I have had shoved down my throat, repeatedly: the current POTUS is a secret Muslin, intent on destroying our country by simultaneously handing it over to socialists and profiteering capitalists all in the same breath. Unemployed Americans are ecstatic over having hit the financial jackpot every time they get a check that represents a fraction of their earned income – and immediately retire to life in front of the afternoon soaps, bereft of any desire to work again. Jesus hated the Gay Agenda, and vociferously said so – unfortunately, his sermons on the subject didn’t make the final edit of the Good Book.

Union members are blood-suckers out to ruin our economy, the homeless got where they are by being lazy malcontents, those who protest our country’s participation in warfare are Islamofascists in league with terrorists, veterans who have put their lives on the line while in service and then expect proper medical treatment once returned Stateside are traitors of the worst kind, teachers are intent on ruining our children’s minds while profiting by it, scientists who warn of global disaster due to catastrophic climate change are involved in some money-making pyramid scheme spearheaded by Al Gore, the current economic crisis is the result of overly-restrictive government oversight that curtails true entrepreneurship like that of Bernie Madoff or Ken Lay – oh, and insurance companies who make obscene profits based on the suffering and death of fellow citizens are just a bunch of misunderstood do-gooders who are simply the victims of a lot of bad press.

So now the RW want to lecture me about the evils of the Democrats shoving healthcare reform down the throats of the citizenry? Well, to quote the most ignorant, inane, you’ve-got-to-be-fuckin’-kidding-me RW asshole (and believe me, there were A LOT to choose from), “You betcha!”

If shoving the truth (“The Truth” – a concept as yet unknown to the GOP) down the throats of American citizens is the only way to bring our nation into the 21st Century when it comes to healthcare legislation, I’m all for it. And if the average citizen finds themselves gagging on the idea that healthcare is a right, not a privilege for those who can afford it, at least they’ll be able to visit a doctor for a proper diagnosis on what’s causing that choking sensation every time they try to swallow the bullshit that’s being passed off as Republican concern for their wellbeing, RW-insanity disguised as patriotism, or mainstream media propaganda being passed off as objective journalism.

So keep shovin’ it, Obama et al – sometimes a lump-in-the-throat, when caused by a forced-feeding of the facts, can be just the cure the doctor orders in pursuit of saving the ill-advised, misled patient.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. Rec.
Time to read.

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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. And having finished reading it
I wish I could goddamn well rec it again.

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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Your bias is so obvious it is funny
:rofl: <--- Funny!



Love ya both.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
26. I like that he is biased towards his partner
They are a fabulous team, much like me and Jmondine, one of my partners in crime. It's nice to see partners actively supporting one another.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. Top of the line as usual Nance. Never quit. I'm loving it.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. I too am gagging, my dear Nance...
at all the stuff you've outlined here...

Unbelievable, these RW talking points...

It sure isn't the truth, by any stretch...

K&R

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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
5. An Excellent Rant, Ma'am: Happy To Give It Its Fifth....
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. It is always an honour, Good Sir ...
... to have you post on one of my threads.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. It's wonderful to see you posting on a thread
Keep on getting well, dear sir!!
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. That's my Nance...
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. One more rec.
:thumbsup:
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. Rec'd
:loveya:
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
11. K&R Nance, love your postings as always. Best regards to you and JeffR. nt
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 05:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. You got the Republican and corporatist side pegged, however the proposed healthcare
legislation, sadly, has been made into the institutionalization by law of the root cause of the whole problem: for-profit insurance. It is the only difference between successful systems and ours, and this bill hands over 30 million new folks to the problem-makers, adding no controls, only wimpy monitoring, funding additional insurance revenues with additional tax dollars, taking those away from more efficient programs. Under the revenue restrictions, the only way for the manifestly clever insurers to raise their profits will be to manipulate the total cost of healthcare higher. Pre-existing conditions will be billed at confiscatory rates. And all this bad stuff for benefits that mostly don't kick in until Obama's most optimistic lame-duck congress.

The fact is, this is a Republican bill in every respect except for the ownership of the majority. Republican resistance to it is just as farcical as any other of their righteous stands, but that doesn't mean it's a good bill for the People of America.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. Current health care "reform" is based on the Republican assumption
--that the only health care you deserve is what you can pay for. That would be the 4 levels, each with better coverage that costs more money. Only the shitty basement level that pays 60% of expenses would be subsidized.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
14. As Chief Inspector Jacques Clouseau once said
"That felt good."
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
15. K&R!
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
16. Amen, sister.
Good to see ya, Nance!

K&R :kick:
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
17. The history of the GOP in the 20/21 Centuries is fraught with...
"enemies"...in almost every case, they got it wrong. They were against Wilson in WWI, and never thought of the real enemies leading up to, and during WWII.

The worst enemies we have are right here in the US...they are the massive corporations, insurance companies, banks and developers, all backed by the GOP. The massive upswell of cash to these entities have increased their power, and the power of greed has reached critical mass.

The D's elected to ensure change, must produce that change, damn the torpedoes...full speed ahead...:patriot:
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srf Rantz Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
18. awesome!
reading that list of RW 'truths'(lies, myths, delusions) collated together like I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I wish I had some way to show it to every ditto head who comes back to any Liberal argument with "You Libs are so arrogant and elitist." or "you never listen to our ideas, you just think we're a bunch of stupid morons."

Well, um. Yes.

sadly, so very sadly, though, they simply dig in their heels and get even more angry and hateful and hang on tighter to their beliefs. *sigh*
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
19. Outrageously good.
Best articulation of how "I" feel, even better than I can say for myself. Always a pleasure to K&R! :kick:
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
20. The sooner they get it done...
the sooner the public will forget what all this was about. The 'public amnesia' on issues works both ways I think. Say it passes this month... by August, no one will remember this took so long to get in place. Or so I predict.

Well done as usual Nance! :hi:
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. K & R....
Thumbs up for the truth:thumbsup:
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
110. A real winning thread ~ the best!
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
22. Of course, Obama is opposed to GLBT equality also
And he says it is because he is a Christian. Gloss over much?
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
71. Shhhh
Let it go. These are works of fantasy. I find it much easier to regard it like a D&D table in the corner. They look like they're having lots of fun, but it only works if you never ever apply it to the real world.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
23. Perhaps we need some theme music?
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
24. K & R
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LittleGirl Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
25. I had to bookmark this one
It's so good. Thank you for your rants Dear Lady.
Well done.
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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
27. It is no surprise that Teabaggers are obssessed with having things shoved down their throats.
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secondwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
29. Nance, you provide an invaluable service to those of us here at DU.....you keep us going....


and going....and going!

You provide us with HOPE, and SMILES, and you TELL IT LIKE IT IS! (for us who don't know how to do this)...

Keep them coming, is all I have to say, and many,many THANKS!


:toast:
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JimboDem Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
30. Thank-you Nance
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 10:21 AM by JimboDem
The media needs an enema and the voters need adrenaline(and health care).
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
31. K&R!
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
32. Coffee and a Nance Rant --
Spectacular way to start the day!

--
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
33. Wow!! One of the best posts I have ever read!!
You have outdone yourself today, Nance!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
34. You freakin' out did yourself this time, Nance!~
Yeah, Shove those Facts, President Obama and Team!
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
35. I think I head a heartattack halfway through this thing...K&R!
Hahaha I mean that was just...amazing.

Well said!!
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
36. great post. K&R.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
37. Sorry Ms. Greggs. What you want them to "shove through" is NOT Health Care Reform.
It is mandated PRIVATE, FOR PROFIT insurance.

It is nothing like what you, yourself, currently enjoy in the Great White North, where you so fortunately reside.

Advocates for that kind of system were FORCIBLY EJECTED from the Senate hearings last year, with nary a word from the White House.

And as for unions, this administration is making few friends among THAT crowd either, or haven't you noticed?

I'm sorry to have to say it, but the gap between what you post and what the current White House and Dem leadership in congress are fdoing widens every day.

I would like to "pass" on the forced serving of mandated, expensive, for-profit "insurance" and ask instead, if I may without being dragged from the chamber, for the real thing.

Health Care.

You know, like you have in Canada.

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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. +1,000

Totally agreed.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Thanks inna. Maybe we should all move to Canada.
I've considered it, and even more so now, given what they trying to "Shove" into our, well, you know....
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #37
49. It is all part of the DC Kabuki production...
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 06:50 PM by liberation
... the GOP likes to huff and puff and with their perennial "no" they get to show their base how committed they are to their "free market/small government uber alles" mantra. Meanwhile most of the Dems get to pass a health care reform which is basically a continuation of the current system, while at the same time getting their talking points of "getting things done" for the next election cycle. And all of the whole theatrics are most likely to deviate the attention from the fact that this "reform" changes very little and those who were advocating real change (be it via single-payer and universal systems) are either silenced or have their positions being right out thrown out to the trash.

It is nothing but divide and conquer. And as usual, fools fall for it head first...

This is just like the good cop/bad cop my parents used to play. My mum was the "good cop" and my dad was the "tough one." In the end though, they had a fairly consistent position on the issue (most likely whatever trouble I had gotten myself into as a child), and I did not caught on the commonality of their front until I was in my 20s. And thankfully so, because my parents had my best interests at heart... and had to have a method to diffuse my teen "angst." However, I can't say that the pols over at DC have necessarily my best interests as the excuse for their theatrics to disguise their common positions regarding corporate control of something as vital to any society as its health care.

At this point I have stopped giving Mr. Obama and a lot of the Dems the benefit of the doubt in regards to their perennial attempts at "playing nice" with the GOP, no matter how much vitriol and obstructionism the GOP throws their way. I can understand attempting to work with the other side once or twice, but when they keep on getting the same answer from the GOP: NO, then I am starting to be reminded of that idiom Bush botched so famously: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...."

That being said, I have always enjoyed Nace Gregg's posts and insights. I just happen to disagree on this one though.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #37
57. Thank you for posting this.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
80. +1 zillion ...
Too cold in Canada ... is there somewhere more southern that has a great Health Care system?

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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
82. Good luck gettin a response from her highness on that one. nt
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
83. +1
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
38. How are things in Canada?
You got single payer over there, don't ya?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Pathetic and petty cheap shot, no surprise though n/t
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. But valid under the circumstances.
After all, we here in the USA were denied even the opportunity to DISCUSS a Canadian-style system by our DEMOCRATIC PARTY leaders.

Advocates for the type of system Ms. Greggs and other residents of Canada enjoy were not only denied a "seat at the table," but were forcibly DRAGGED from the Senate chamber when they tried to speak out.

In other words, this INSURANCE MANDATE PRIVATIZATION SCHEME was shoved down our throats long ago.

I find THAT to be most indigestible, myself.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. So let me see if I have this right...
An American who lives in any other country that has single payer, or similar health care system, is castigated if they dare to support their fellow Americans, as well as family still in the U.S., in their work toward reforms that the ex-pat believes will better their lot. They are ONLY allowed to comment if they 'echo' the position you put forth?

If the OP poster was taking the position on reform that you have put forth, would you still be asking the question in the same tone and with the vitriol you have asked in this thread? I highly doubt it.

It seems you would rather those who are fortunate enough to have what those in the U.S. want to STFU if they don't 'march in step' with your position on what constitutes reform.

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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Not castigated.
At least, not by me.

I merely stated that the "Reform" I want is what they (and the OP) already have in Canada.

What I do NOT want is the president or anyone else "shoving" this rotten legislation, which will do little or nothing to improve the current situation, down my (our, collective) throat.

I have lived in countries with Canada-like systems myself, and been treated there, and well, and affordably.

The president himself, years ago, admitted his was by the best and most effective system.

So why were we prevented from having the case made by our own Democratic leaders?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Yet you felt your petty , low blow comment to which I originally...
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 05:35 PM by Spazito
responded was warranted and do not see that as a form of castigation? I certainly do and all because the position put forth in the OP is not in sync with yours and is an ex-pat.

You didn't rail against the President/Democratic leaders in your post to the OP, you chose to show contempt for an ex-pat daring to put forth her opinion.

The double-standard as to which ex-pats receive condemnation for putting forth an opinion is glaring. Those who support the "kill the bill" faction do not get the same treatment as those who support the current attempts on reform.

Edited for typo.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. I think the term "contempt" doesn't mean what you think it means...
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #48
67. Yes...it does n/t
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #45
66. My comment?
Which one?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. My apologies, I mistakenly thought your post was by IndianaGreen n/t
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. No problem.
I brought up the Canadian system in my comment too, but only to point out the exclusion of its advocates from the process from the beginning in relation to the "shoving it" rhetoric of the OP.

My point is, basically, that the WH and the Senate Dems have ALREADY shoved a rotten plan down our throats, and I am not interested in seeing it go any further.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
59. I assume you're asking about ...
... the Canadian healthcare system - which is fantastic, and thanks for asking.

This is not the first time someone has found it necessary to point out that I live in Canada, the perceived notion being that because "I have mine", I shouldn't be weighing-in on the challenges facing my own country.

So let me just set the record straight - for you, and anyone else who might be of the opinion that as a non-US-resident, my position in opining on healthcare, or any other issue that affects my fellow citizens, is somehow suspect or out of place.

I am an American citizen - not a Canadian citizen. I am a registered Democratic voter in New York State, where I was born and raised. I vote, I contribute financially to Democratic campaigns, and I keep myself apprised of political happenings in my own country.

Unfortunately, that is more than a lot of in-country residents do - and affords me the right to speak up when I've a mind to.

I moved to Toronto with my first husband, who was offered a position here that, money-wise and career-wise, couldn't be refused. When we split up a few years later, I decided to stay - not because I preferred living in Canada rather than the US, but because I preferred living in Toronto as opposed to any other North American city.

My family members all live in the States - including five sisters, countless cousins, nieces and nephews, etc. My own son, born in NY and an American citizen, lives in California.

I am concerned for their wellbeing, as well as the wellbeing of my fellow citizens, and my country as a whole.

Yes, when it comes to healthcare, I have mine. But that does not negate the fact that I am desirous of seeing my countrymen, and my own family members, having theirs, too. In fact, I would say that living in a country where people don't live in fear of being wiped-out financially by an unforeseen medical condition has heightened my awareness of the importance of this issue, rather than diminished it.

Perhaps you think it foolish for someone who "has theirs" to be concerned about the fact that others do not. Well, I guess I'm just an old fool on many levels. I give money to the homeless, even though I own my own home. I donate to foodbanks, even though I am well-fed. I contribute to research into cures for diseases that afflict others, even though I am blessed with good health.

I am an American, sir - and as such, regardless of where I live or what I may have, my moral obligation as a US citizen is to speak up on all matters affecting my nation and my fellow Americans.

If that offends you in some way, or if you feel I have no right to opine on the direction of my country or the issues that directly impact its citizenry, I can only respond that this is your problem, not mine. Perhaps you are simply the kind of "citizen" who, were you to relocate out-of-country, would quickly - and gladly - wash your hands of any responsibility to your country and your fellow Americans.

I am, and proudly so, NOT of that ilk.

The next time you, or anyone else, feels compelled to question my motives, or my right to speak out, I would suggest you aim your skepticism at your neighbours, your co-workers, your friends and family members who can easily vote and stay abreast of political events more conveniently than I can, due to the fact that they live in the US - and yet manage to shirk their duties because they just can't be bothered.

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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #59
69. Not a personal thing, but a more specific question if you might...
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 08:32 PM by freddie mertz
That is: How do you feel about the Democrats' systematic and presumably White House approved refusal to allow advocates for the type of HC coverage you enjoy have a "place at the table" from the very start of this discussion.

Those that did try to speak or asked to be included were either ignored or dragged away by police.

Does that strike you, as it does me, as an example of "shoving something down OUR throats," namely, a privatized, profit-driven solution to HC coverage whose inadequacies could only have been highlighted by the comparison to REAL universal health care, such as you enjoy Canada today.

That is what I object to in the Obama plan, and why I object to the notion of "shoving" it onto anybody.

It's a scam, and the whole process we here have had to endure for the past year and more stinks of corruption and deception, not to mention failure.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. +1000 nt
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #75
99. Thanks. I am a bit surprised that my perfectly civil question has so far been ignored.
Seems to me what is good for the goose is good for the gander, and that asking that single-payer be granted a HEARING, at the very least, during this debate bears absolutely NO comparison to the philosophy or tactics of the "teabaggers."

They have a great single-payer system in Canada.

We should at least have had the civility and openness to the discuss it as part of the effort in the USa.

I'm sick of rotten legislation being "shoved" in my face by politicians who put profits over the best interests of the people.

We need "change" now as much as we EVER did.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #69
104. Crickets chirp.
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #59
84. U think me being required to pay $200+ to a for-profit insurance company...
every month will be 'having mine' and u think you're an ADVOCATE for me by pushing this administration on to shove that down my throat? You are a sick, disillusioned corporatist that is truly disengaged from reality. Freddie Mertz is dead on; you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about if you think that is helping me 'get mine.'
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #59
92. Loved your OP, Nance, but this response also resonates with me.
I reside outside the US, but do return often to see children, grandchildren, other family members and my many friends who don't have the same options that I do. I also like to be their point of contact on this side of The Pond. As a result, relatives and friends have come to study, stay and see for themselves that the quality of life outside the US is not as it is depicted in the so-called "librul" media or by the GOP. It's actually pretty darn good.
In Switzerland, where I live now, national health care is not an option, as it is in France, about ten minutes away. There are employer mandates here so that everyone who is employed generally has health care insurance coverage through their employer. Some exceptions apply, but they are few. If one is not employed, one either has continuing insurance coverage with costs shared through their former employer or, in order to remain legally in the country, one must purchase insurance coverage on the private market. Swiss citizens are also required to have coverage one way or another. The costs are generally reasonable, however, and every policy must provide a legally-mandated minimum. Denial of coverage is simply not an option. I (and many others here) would like to see movement toward more of a national health care system, but things do not happen that quickly here. I am Medicare-eligible and also pay into that system even now (and paid into SS for many years when I resided in the States and worked there) for Medicare B and prescription coverage. But I must be physically IN the US in order to have any procedures or medication covered by Medicare. It doesn't cover me here at all. For global coverage, I rely on the Swiss private policy.
I too believe that the Canadian health care system is a good one. Like many others, I am very disappointed that our President did not make the case for having something similar.
But I do believe that what is being proposed is at least an improvement and I am not alone in that belief. And I, like you, will speak out whenever and wherever about what I believe because I am a US citizen. I have served my country in many capacities and I care about ALL my fellow citizens (yes, even the wingnuts!) wherever I am.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #59
95. Preach it, Nance.
Thank you for an excellent rant. There is much in this vein that needs to be said. I'm constantly amazed by self-styled "progressives" adopting the same position as the Teabaggers. It is not progressive, and certainly not humane, to deny access to healthcare to others. It is not humane to condemn others to penury and homelessness because accessing healthcare with coverage now may strip them of everything they own with the right medical event. It is inhumane to do nothing, especially to do nothing while spinning yourself into the ground. While I have many of the same end goals and would love to see Medicare for all, it is unrealistic and unachievable in the current political climate. Anything worthwhile requires hard work effort. I join you in helping with the shove back. Waiting for the perfect is a death sentence for so many.

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #59
97. Love ya, Nance, and this was as good as the OP. You tell 'em!
:loveya:
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #59
112. Nance...
Don't let the snipes drag you into the muck with them. :pals:

:yourock:
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #59
127. +1000....n/t
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
46. Rock on, Nance -
Yet another bookmark/print/email/rec/kick!

Funny how that happens every time I read a NanceGreggs post......... :toast:
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
114. You weren't here when she was sharing her fascisty death fantasies
A poorly executed (pardon the pun) 'satirical' piece in which she openly fantasized about being president and killing, literally, all of her opposition.

A world in which lying in politics gets you the death penalty. Ooo! How bold and creative. How stupid and misguided. It was more like Glenn Beck than anything that could be construed as left-leaning satire.

It had negative recs, a shitstorm ensued, and the whle episode chased her away for a few days so she could lick her wounds, lol.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #114
123. I was here for that.
It was described as "humor," but revealed, in my opinion, a very "distinctive" aspect of the author's personality.

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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
47. Excellent piece.
I'll be sharing with others, if you don't mind.

Cheers,
Julie
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
50. My sentiments, exactly. Thanks, Nance.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
51. GEEZ, Nance. You take my breath away so much that I think I'm suffocating!
BRAVA!!!!!!

:patriot:
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
52. Exactly how are you having anything "shoved down you throat " while living in Canada?
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 07:20 PM by saracat
You certainly have the right to your opinion but understand, you have government health care. Many of us have either nothing ot private insurance that is overpriced and doesn't allow us the affordability of getting treatment. We have to experience the so called "shoving" everyday, and now they want to "shove" a mandated heath insurance reform that doesn't constitute health care down our throats.
We have actually been out trying to protect some of our progressive incumbents , primarying blue dogs and working for our communities. What do you do as an activist but "observe" and offer commentary from Canada to fed an echo chamber of no critical thinkers? All you have to do, unlike those of us in the trenches, is turn off your TV.It sounds a little condescending to those of us who want to work to get REAL healthcare , the kind that Canadians now enjoy.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. Please see my reply at #59 ... n/t
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #61
91. Interesting, you still did not address the issue of exactly how this is being shoved down "your "
particular throat. I get that you are an ex-pat. I get that you have family here. Guess what? We ALL have family here and we, most of us HAVE to live here and deal with the health care situation we have. We are the ones that have to listen to the GOP and the news and deal with the prescription shortages and over pricing everyday. You do not. I do not value your opinion for that reason. You aren't even aware of the people this ridiculous trojan horse will do nothing for. What about those people who will not be able to buy their prescriptions? I already have stopped taking two of mine and I have health insurance that is nearly bankrupting us.This plan will do nothing to help either me or my husband.But I guess in Canada , where the drugs are a lot cheaper, because the system is designed that way for Americans to pay more, that isn't an issue.Many Americans are buying their drugs from Canada for that reason. And isn't it nice to know that in crafting this plan our president met with Big pharma to make sure their rights were protected.
Excuse me if I seem annoyed but again your condescension considering this isn't your problem and you don't have to deal with it and your presuming to lecture anyone who does is beyond the pale.
And no, your writing a check to the particular political party of your choice and your voting by mail doesn't make you one bit more worthy than anyone else in the United States.And yes, because you do NOT share our problems, your opinion, while you certainly have the right to it, doesn't carry even as much weight as those citizens who may not be able to donate or participate in a political party.Those folks are in the boat with us and we need to row together.It isn't just about donating money or even voting. But I think you are smart enough to know that.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #91
94. All of that to say ...
... citizens who do not live in-country should just STFU, because it's not their problem.

Not a chance.

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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #94
105. It may, however, be fair to suggest that it is easier to be enthusiastic about this legislation..
If you are safely beyond it's loving grasp.

We all here are going to have to actually DEAL with these terrible mandates and taxes.

But you will be safe and sound, protected by the sort of REAL HC system that we were not allowed to even discuss in the hollowed halls of the Dem-controlled congress.

Which is something you have still, so far, refused to address.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #94
117. No, I said you were entitled to an opinion. I said your opinion wasn't worth as much
because you were not directly effected and do not suffer the direct consequences.I pointed out what some of those consequences might be to those of us who must actually LIVE here. Those of us who live here have more of a stake in understanding those consequences.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #91
96. So, doing nothing is preferable?
Status quo all the way, baby! Enjoy. Because NOTHING will change. Do you really believe that this congress in its entirety will just suddenly put out HCR in the purest form we would like? That is downright naive and shortsighted.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #96
106. Why were single-payer advocates disinvited and dragged form the Senate?
Were they advocating "doing nothing"?

Or were they shut out because the deal had already been made to force millions to buy for for-profit insurance?

Sometimes doing something IS worse than doing nothing.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #106
108. Not in this case.
You tell millions of people without access to health care or coverage that. Tell millions more in the current unsustainable system that as they lose their access to health care and coverage and perhaps their homes and any other asset which can be tapped. Tell them all that their lives and livelihoods are not worth it. Sometime dogma obscures the vision. I really believe that the arguments of the Baggers and "progressives" (term loosely applied) are among the most destructive and inhumane I've ever heard. An ever shrinking pool of premium payers and taxpayers cannot continue to support an ever expanding need. Everyone--yes, everyone--needs to step up. There is not free ride.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #96
120. I guess you have never really read this bill and don't understand how badly
Edited on Fri Mar-12-10 02:07 PM by saracat
it will effect some people.The public option would go a long way toward fixing this without that, this is disaster leaving people worse off than before!Here is an example of its application for a post found elswhere. This person does a really simple breakdown of the consequences.I only post an example:




"Let me first take the most popular talking points that say it will be better than doing nothing:

1) 30 million more people will have access to health care.
2) People will no longer be forced into medical bankruptcies

The truth is 30 million more will be mandated to have a health insurance policy. Those who get a subsidy may be able to afford the premium but a lot of them will not be able to afford the deductibles or out of pocket expenses. So, if they can afford the premium and have a policy, they may still not be able to afford to access the actual care. So, many will have a policy but not access to health care and they will have an extra expense of paying a premium. Now, many make the point that the bill allows people to see a PCP without out of pocket expenses (a visit for a checkup, if you will).First off the premiums they are paying would, likely, be enough for them to see a doctor for a checkup to begin with. Many who could, perhaps, afford the checkup do not see a doctor because they can't afford any treatments if something is found and I know all about this cause I am one of those, now. This is very similar to the position they will be in with their new insurance policy: if they see their doctor and something is found to be seriously wrong, they have no access to the treatments for the condition without coming up with the deductible and out of pocket costs which will be out of reach for many. They may (and this is not likely) find providers who will treat them without them having met their deductible yet but they will be billed for the differences and then be forced into bankruptcy over the bills. This bill will not stop medical bankruptcies.

When you start talking of those who do not qualify for a subsidy, it gets less certain they will even have a policy unless they are pretty well heeled. People with this sort of money probably already have coverage. Federal policy guidelines would put a couple making 52,281 per year outside the level for a subsidy. If that same couple happens to be older their premium will be quite high (There is nothing really to force the price of premiums down. We can argue if it will slow the rate of increases in the future but they aren't coming down from today's levels). My husband and I were paying $1200 per month for our premiums and that was before we dropped it almost 3 years ago. We all know that premium could be up to around $1700 by now. But let's just assume this couple is still getting $1200 rate. That is 25% of their income which is like a second house note in my part of the country and more than a mortgage in a lot of the country. I know very few at this income level who could afford a second house. Add to that the deductibles and out of pocket expenses and this couple will, no way, be able to afford this coverage. Now, they will get a waiver so they are not fined (as the policy is more than 17% of their income) but they will still not have coverage. So, these people get nothing from the bill. Let's assume they are a bit younger than the above couple so their premium is just under 17% of their income. That's a couple who will be paying $740 per month. At that income level it might be doable but it will be a stretch depending on the cost of living in their area (and this is a huge problem with the Federal Poverty Guidelines, they do not take this into account and the price of housing is never considered but that's another discussion entirely). Let's assume their mortgage is $1200 per month because in my area that is a modest home. They are now darned close to 50% of their monthly income going out just for the mortgage and their health insurance. If they have a car note, they're really scrapping, now. A lot of these people will not be able to afford the coverage (and if they do, they will certainly go bankrupt over the out of pocket expenses should they wind up with a serious illness). If they opt not to obtain coverage they will be fined. The fine may be affordable but they still don't have coverage.

3) This bill will stop denials for preexisting conditions

I have always said people who can already afford coverage but have been denied due to preexisting conditions is one of 2 groups who will be helped by this bill. First off, you have to realize the community ratings system in the bill allows a multiplier of 3X for age and a lot of older people are the ones with preexisting conditions. So, they're in the same boat as all older Americans as far as being able to afford the coverage. Now, until some bought out asshole in the Senate slipped that loophole allowing rescissions to continue into the bill I would have said younger people with preexisting conditions would be helped by this bill if they can afford the coverage. But, with that loophole in there, now, it is not clear this is, necessarily, true. These may find themselves facing the same issue many face, already. They pay for the coverage for a period of time and, as soon as the insurance company decides they are tired of paying out for them, they will search their medical files and history, find a condition they neglected to mention on their application, and call it fraud and cancel their policy. There is nothing I've seen in the bill which changes that scenario. Once that loophole got in there my previous belief that those who could already afford coverage or younger people with a preexisting condition would be helped got a lot more uncertain."

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #91
119. You might want to peruse this thread and lecture any Americans living in Canada...
you might find there, who have been posting their opinion on the current U.S. healthcare debate, that they should butt out, that it's not their problem, etc. unless it is not that an ex-pat in Canada is daring to post their opinion but, instead, an ex-pat who is daring to post an opinion you don't like that is upsetting you.

Link for your perusal:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7895642#7896186

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #52
78. People in Canada can have opinions, end of story
We have opinions on what goes on in Venezuela and what not.

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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #78
107. But I don't go to people in venezuela and tell them what they should think.
I've lived in other countries with pretty bad governments and have discussed the problems there (and here) with people.

But I never scold or put on "I know better than you do" airs.
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #107
111. You would if you was Venezuelan living abroad
Which is the whole point. Living in another country didn't stop Nance from being an American. Stop trying to tell her she has no voice here.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #111
125. Of course she has a voice. I never claimed she did not.
What bothers me is the argument, which is set into stark relief by her own access to the much superior HC that the OPer enjoys.

It's a situational thing.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #125
128. Access to what they have in Canada doesn't change the political reality
in the U.S., which Canadians can perceive, even if they did not grow up in America.

There are some countries where I've never even been, which I would tell them they are wrong, take Saudi Arabia and how they treat women.

And one can always have an opinion, subject to change by learning more. I have no opinion on politics in Norway right now because I don't know a thing about it. But if I spent a couple of hours reading about it, I'd know something and have some opinion though respectfully deferring to listen to people who know more - I'd be aware of that.

Any American who lives in Canada and follows the news knows enough to comment.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #128
132. I also have the right to point out when I think the opinion is in error.
And reference to the superiority of the Canadian system makes sense in this context.

Sorry if you disagree and love the current sell-out mandate bill.

I do not, obviously.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
53. Please keep shoving it, Mr. President!
Down the throats of the three health insurance companies that denied me individual coverage in 2001 because I was treated for cancer two decades earlier!
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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
54. my thoughts exactly
thanks for ranting for me!
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corkhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
55. One Righteous Rant! Nance, you shoved this one out of the park.
I'm bookmarking this one.

:toast:
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johnnyplankton Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #55
77. Damn! I'm Loving Me Some Nance Greggs.
Another home run baby. It's time for Dems to stop being such wussies. If you live in fear, you ain't livin.'What did Ed Schultz say? You don't bring library books to a rock fight!
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
56. Oh Lawd, I could use a drink after reading this!
:beer:

Wish I could buy you one, Nance!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
58. Magnificent!. . . Thank You. . . . . n/t
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
60. Thrilled to see the wisdom of your words ~ missed you!
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
62. k & r
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
63. Kick &Recommended!
:kick: :kick: :kick: :fistbump: :applause:
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blockhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
64. I think I love you.
:)
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Awwww ...
... I knew you would - I tend to attract the Blockheads of the world.

(Seriously, that was lovely - and I thank you.) :loveya:
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
72. K&R
:kick:
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
73. K&R
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 08:55 PM by firedupdem
I love, love, love reading your rants! :)
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
74. K&R, natch. nt
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
76. Hmmmm....are you telling me we do not live in a fair and balanced
democracy?
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
79. Unrec'd - since I happen to strongly resent this piece of corporate welfare

being "shoved down my throat".

:thumbsdown:
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
81. You neglect to mention that this so-called health care reform that you are talking about is a pile..
of steaming crap. Yes, the GOP opposes it, because they feel it is their political imperative to oppose anything and everything Obama. Yet it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the right wing is secretly chortling about this so-called HCR bill because after all, it provides everything that the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries could ever want or dream of. Meanwhile, the average American, as usual gets the shaft. They will be required to purchase health insurance that they can't afford and be stuck with co-payments and deductibles that they can't afford. And the subsides that are supposed to help low income people afford their insurance will be inadequate and to apply for them you will have to undergo a humiliating means test and subject yourself to having the IRS look over your shoulder. What a deal.
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
85. Sometimes the spoiled child who's kicking and screaming the whole bloody way
Edited on Fri Mar-12-10 12:58 AM by gtar100
needs to be force fed what's good for them. The republicans, conservatives and libertarians have *proven* over and over and over they are selfish and contemptuous. So they fear the worst if government took over health insurance but just like nearly every other country in this world, as soon as they have it for awhile, they will stop their complaining. Why? Because they'll find out it benefits them personally.

You're right, Nance. We've had enough crap shoved on us for too many god-damn years. We need to start pushing back and shoving the right stuff down everyone's throat - collective health insurance for all, highly regulated and fairly taxed corporations, a proven progressive tax system, vast cuts to the bloated military budget, a well-funded public educational system that provides up through university degrees, public investments in renewable energy, ... my God... we should even shove down their throats publicly funded arts and humanities programs, international exchange programs and cultural diversity programs, and for good measure we'll shove down their throats equality rights for gays and lesbians. Heads will explode but we'll need to keep in mind that's just the layers of stupid falling off.

We should be done trying to reason with them. They have shown us that they do not respond to reason, facts or common sense. Are we going to wait for some future generation to make it happen? We need to *force* this country back in the right direction. I know they would say the same thing but they've had 30 years and have really screwed things up whenever given the chance. It's time we start shoving in the *real* right direction.


(Yes, the "right direction" is alway interpreted according to one's value system. They want a slave planet run by multi-national corporations...I don't. They can shove what they think is right all they want...but their vision of this earth sucks and I'm not going to just play along to get along.)
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FDR_Democrat Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
86. It's getting hard to tell the difference....
between the Republicans and the Democrats these days. They are, for the most part, all beholden to the same corporate masters.

The fact of the matter is that they are indeed shoving this unpopular corporate giveaway down our throats, and each and every one of us are going to feel the economic oppression it creates in all of our lives in the form of a mandate. A mandate to purchase a shitty product from an industry that has killed more Americans than Al Qaeda. It's the new "American Way".

Industries and their CEO's are rewarded by our government for the figurative rape and pillage of it's own people by handing them larger and larger quantities of wealth from the very Americans they exploit.

Politicians that facilitate this atrocity on the American people will be generously rewarded by these industries with jobs and campaign contributions.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:24 AM
Original message
+10000
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #86
100. + 10001! The truth will out. Stop the shoving!
Edited on Fri Mar-12-10 08:07 AM by freddie mertz
We the people have had quite enough of corporate-controlled politicians forcing us to pay more and more of the money they still allow us ti receive to the greedy criminals who own our givernment.

I'd move to Canada and join Ms. Greggs in a civilized country if I could.

As it is, I am stuck here, reading her "rant" which amounts to nothing less than a protected bystander's cheer for legislation that is going to end up screwing everyone who still has to live here.

America in the age of Obama has not turned out the way we hoped.

Canada should gird itself for a new wave of refugees if this keeps up.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #86
115. Welcome to DU
4 posts in and already standing up against the absurdities of a 'NanceRant'. I like your style. :toast:
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #86
135. Hello
Welcome to DU! :hi:
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
87. Yes in this case 51 votes in the Senate equals about 73% of the population

California's 2 Senators has about the same population as the 18 least populace states that have 36 votes.

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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #87
103. that does put it into perspective, doesn't it?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #87
109. Excellent point! n/t
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
88. Bravo sister. Well done! n/t
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solara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
89. I have missed you very much- your voice, your reason, your patriotism and your awesome talent..
Bless you Nance!


:patriot:

Write more! Write more often!


:kick:
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lastone Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
90. a righteous rant indeed -
The amount of pure bile these bastards can spew on a daily basis is quite astounding.
Thank you for your words.
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
93. Getting a Public Option is a huge start.
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gademocrat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
98. Thank you, Nance
You are a voice of reason and truth.
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Highway61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
101. Once again
Excellent! Another home run.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
102. I think this is my favorite so far.
.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
113. Oh shit
Another lecture directed at us po' souls down here from your ivory tower in Canada. x(
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #113
116. And another lecture ...
... about how a US citizen has no right to comment on what's going on in their own country.

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. Did it ever occur to you that your "Lectures" are an unacceptable as a person with two legs
advising a one legged man on how to walk?
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #118
121. Has it occurred to you ...
... that only the people on this thread who disagree with my stance on HCR have characterized the OP as a "lecture"?

Apparently, most other people don't see it as any such thing.

Let's face facts; you deem my opinion as not worth as much weight because you disagree with it. It has nothing to do with where I live. There are many on this board who agree with your position - some of whom are ex-pats - and yet you've never told them to stay out of the discussion, or that their opinion is less worthy or valid than that of anyone else.

You've said that my opinion holds less weight because I will not be impacted personally by the consequences. But those consequences will impact my family members, and especially my son, and THAT matters to me - a lot.

While you are dismissive of US citizens who live out of country, you are also ignoring the fact that many of us who live outside the States - for whatever reason - may fully intend to return at some point. Therefore, whatever consequences flow from healthcare changes will impact us personally in future.

Healthcare is far too important a matter to NOT speak up. And living in a country with a great healthcare system, as I do, drives that point home for myself and others who are fortunate enough to reside in places where access to it is considered a right, not a privilege for those who can afford it.

Personally, I find it disgusting that this issue even requires discussion. The US is literally living in the dark ages when it comes to its approach to healthcare - and I advocate dragging it, kickin' and screamin' if need be, into the 21st Century in that regard.

Single-payer is the best option, of course. But any step in the right direction at this point is just that - a step in the RIGHT direction. That,IMHO, far surpasses standing in the same spot, which doesn't move anyone forward towards the ultimate goal by so much as an inch.

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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #121
124. But a step in the WRONG direction--to increase the number of citizens forced to feed...
The coffers of corrupt insurance companies, is something WE shall all have to deal with if it passes.

I think this helps to explain some folks' lack of "receptivity" when being hectored to support this policy by someone who enjoys what we all want, and SHOULD have had access to.

Also, you never answered my question about Obama and co.'s forcible exclusion of single-payer advocates from the public debate.

May I assume that your conspicuous silence means you supported this Obama/Baucus decision?
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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #113
122. What is your problem? Someone drop a mouse in your Bosco? nt
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #113
129. -999999999999
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
126. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
130. I only wish they were trying to shove meaningful health care reform down our throats.
Instead, what they are "shoving" is a load of bullshit.

No single payer.
No public option.
Only mandates that you pay evil piece of shit insurance companies for the privilege of a plan that probably will cover nothing, without meaningful premium price controls.

It is a lousy bill that will likely not ever be improved upon. Now with the current crop of Democratic corporate whore and the Republican clowns.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
131. Damn,
that was good. :applause:
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mithnanthy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
133. Excellent........
Thank you for your wonderful perspective.....as always, you're an great inspiration to many.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
134. I'm so glad you are back, Nance....
...with a vengeance!
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
136. Bravo, kick and wish I could rec!
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