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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:49 AM
Original message
The Ineffectiveness of Dennis Kucinich
Whenever Congressman Dennis Kucinich makes any widely reported critical remarks about the work of President Obama or the Democratic "leadership," the predictable frenzy of hate kicks in on DU and elsewhere.

The cornerstone of the hate frenzy is always the same: Kucinich is ineffective!!!1! Ineffective, ineffective, ineffective! It's like howling at the moon. A broken record. And predictable as the sunrise.

So let's take a look at this.

Let's set aside the fact that Kucinich has a record of passing bills roughly average for non-committee chairs in the House, and slightly better than that of Nancy Pelosi prior to her ascension to Speaker.

Let's instead grant that he has unfortunately not succeeded in passing any major reforms centered around the main points of his political agenda. If only that he had, but alas, it's generally true that he has not.

Why is this?

Is he a poor strategist? Does he not work well with others? Is he impractical? Is he delusional? Unintelligent? Incapable?

Of course not.

What he is - like many true reformers before him - is a minority. His views are simply not shared by very many of his fellow Congress members. It's as simple as that.

Here's the reality:

The vast majority of members of the US Congress - of both parties - support the perpetual maintenance of our massive military Empire and a policy of endless warfare.

Kucinich does not.

The vast majority of Congress members - of both parties - support the wholesale movement of capital and jobs to locations outside the US where the large corporations that own our government can make larger profits.

Kucinich does not.

A large majority of Congress members - of both parties - support drastically rolling back civil liberties and Constitutional rights in the face of the contrived menace of scary terror.

Kucinich does not.

The vast majority of Congress members believe that supporting Wall Street means supporting America and tax Dollars deserve to go to banks before they go to people.

Kucinich does not.

You see, he is in the minority.

Dennis Kucinich isn't the first member of Congress to find themselves in the minority and thus unable to carry out their agenda. In the early 19th century, a series of abolitionist Congress members found themselves in the minority. Sure, they used Congress as platform to speak against the evils of slavery, but most never passed any legislation. Damn were they ineffective!

In the early 20th century a vocal minority of Congress members supported the right of women to participate in the American political process. They made a lot of noise but were never able to pass a single thing. Ineffective losers that lot.

War, corporate rule, and the erosion of the Constitution. These are the uphill battles of our day. Those of us who support winding down the war machine, or reigning in the oligarchy, or restoring the Constitution are sadly a small minority. We are a minority among the American people, the media elites, and particularly among the governing class. It is wholly unrealistic, in our present environment, to expect significant legislative victories in these areas. We have a long way to go and a lot of groundwork to lay before that day comes.

In the meantime we have Dennis Kucinich and a few others. They speak for millions of Americans who have no other political voice. And they keep the ball moving forward, bit by bit, inch by inch.

You know when the haters howl at the moon that you're getting under their skin - making them squirm. And I assure you that when they howl that we, or Dennis Kucinich, are "ineffective!!!11," that they are missing the forest for the trees.

And it may be just as well to let them think that - like they have of so many before. It just means that when the tide turns, and the minority grows into a majority, we'll be taking them by surprise. And eventually, though maybe not soon, the tide WILL turn.

And then someone new will be ineffective.


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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Right on Truth2Tell!
Now lets watch the trolls arrive.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R for Dennis. To bad there are not more like him.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. sorry, it's not hateful to note that Dennis is not effective as a legislator
hard as you're trying to make that claim. I've defended Dennis here. I like Dennis. I understand he has excellent constituent services, but no he's not as effective as say, bernie was when he was in the House. Bernie did that when he was in the minority and he's doing the same thing now in the Senate.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Because Bernie is awesome. And he knows exactly how to be effective
without being obstinate.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. also Bernie voted for the Senate bill
which should tell you something.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. Why all of the threads on Rep. Kucinich?
Is he running for President? :shrug:
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Funny you don't ask that when it's a Kucinich hate thread.
Wonder why that is?
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. noticed that too, huh? And then the balls to act like they don't know WHY?
*Uhh, I don't try to manipulate the board - golly gee no! But wait -- look at these super neat photos of the White House Dog Washing party! Isn't that wuuunnnnnerful!!!!!!*

:puke: :puke:
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. +1000..Thank you Dennis for always fighting for the people!! actually that means doing his job!
Edited on Sun Mar-14-10 09:40 AM by flyarm
and by the way..his job is not to pass legislation..it is to work for and fight for the people..after all, he and the rest of congress are our Employees!! They work for us..or they are supposed to ..which these days there are very few..LIke Dennis who are doing their job!

I never knew, till just recently and all the hate Dennis threads..that it was a constitutional duty to pass legislation by a congress person..I thought the constitution said ..they work for us and are supposed to protect the people ..especially from horse shit bills!..isn't that why we have the separate houses of congress???

yeah i thought so!
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. lets look at the effectivness of Obama..shall we? How is that Fisa working for you?
Immunity to telecoms that illegally spied on Americans..Obama

How is NAFTA working for you with record unemployment in many states..Obama has done nothing..

How is Obama's cheering of union busting of Teachers working for you??????

How is bailing out Banks and Wall street with yout tax money working out for you?????

How about all those forclosures..how is that working for you??????

And how is the acceleration of wars working for you?

And don't forget the prisoners in Gitmo..just exactly is Gitmo closing????????? and when do the trials begin..ohhh..gee now Obama's DOJ may take the trials to military courts..not what was promised at alllllll.



and then look into this......I don't know about you but I don't take kindly to having my vote stolen under any cricumstances..since i worked very hard in my state to make sure all votes were counted..but it seems if our own do it with hospital CEO's it is just hunky dory!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

James Roosevelt, who was chair of the Rules and Bylaws Committee that decided to dock Michigan and Florida half of their
delegates and award 4 of the delegates Clinton won in Michigan to Obama, as well as all of the uncommitted delegates,
is the CEO of a health insurance company – Tufts Healthcare. Okay? Got that? The guy who made sure that Obama had the necessary
to delegates to win the nomination – even to the point of assigning delegates another candidate won to him arbitrarily –
is the CEO of a health insurance firm.
And what Roosevelt wants in a health insurance reform, is a reform that relies entirely upon private insurers.
He does not want a public option. He wants a plan like Massachusetts has

: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/04/09/healthcare_lets_build_on_what_we_know/

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

do some googling..you will find lots on James Roosevelt, Jr. and the DNC Ways and Means committee on the delegate decisions in Michigan and Florida..
http://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=James+Roosevelt%2C+who+was+chair+of+the+Rules+and+Bylaws+Committee+that+decided+to+dock+Michigan+and+Florida+half+of+their+delegates+and+award+4+of+the+delegates+Clinton+won+in+Michigan+to+Obama&page=2&nt=SG2&oreq=66ea2dd1351a45ce9c7de9133d8c39d8&s_it=keyword_rollover

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

http://www.tuftshealthplan.com/visitors/visitors.php?sec=about_us&content=senior_management_group

Senior Management Group
Our mission is to set the standard for outstanding quality health care, service, and value. Our dedication to excellence makes us one of the leading health plans in the nation. Meet our senior management group.

James Roosevelt, Jr., President and Chief Executive Officer


es Roosevelt, Jr.
President and Chief Executive Officer
Mr. Roosevelt joined Tufts Health Plan in 1999 as senior vice president and general counsel and held that position until June 2005, when he became president and chief executive officer. As the general counsel, he presided over the legal department and the company's compliance, privacy and government relations functions.

Before joining Tufts Health Plan, Mr. Roosevelt was the associate commissioner for Retirement Policy for the Social Security Administration in Washington, D.C. He has also served as chief legal counsel for the Massachusetts Democratic Party and as co-chair of the Rules and By-laws Committee of the Democratic National Committee, for which he currently serves on the Change Commission. Mr. Roosevelt spent 10 years as partner at Choate, Hall and Stewart in Boston. He is past chairman of the board of trustees for the Massachusetts Hospital Association, past president of the American Health Lawyers Association and past chairman of the board of trustees for Mount Auburn Hospital. Currently, Mr. Roosevelt serves as chairman of the board of directors for Massachusetts Association of Health Plans, and as a member of the board of directors and co-chair of the policy committee at America’s Health Insurance Plans. He is a member of the Massachusetts Heath Care Quality and Cost Council and the board of directors for the Rhode Island Quality Institute. Mr. Roosevelt is also a board member at Emmanuel College and the Kenneth B. Schwartz Center, and is co-chair of the board of directors for the Tufts Health Care Institute. In November 2008, President-elect Barack Obama appointed Mr. Roosevelt to his transition team to co-chair a review of the Social Security Administration.


Mr. Roosevelt received his J.D. from Harvard Law School and his A.B. with honors in government from Harvard College. He has also completed the Advanced Management Program at Harvard Business School.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03.aspx

The DNC weighs in on Michigan

Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:40 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Democrats

From NBC's Mark Murray

DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee co-chairs Alexis Herman and James Roosevelt issued the following memo to members of the committee:

"We have recently been asked whether the legislation as proposed by Michigan would fit within the framework of the National Party’s Delegate Selection Rules. Our review of this legislation indicates that it would, in fact, fit within the framework of the Rules if, it were, passed by the state legislature and used by the Michigan State Democratic Party as the basis of drafting a formal Delegate Selection Plan. If a formal Delegate Selection Plan is received we will convene a meeting of the RBC to consider such a Plan."
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. Yeah, they're locking threads like crazy this morning.
Must be Kucinichfest.

I'll take Dennis over any politician in Washington or anywhere else.

In 2001, at 2:00 am, he single handedly stopped LTV Steal management from letting two blast furnaces collapse, which would have effectively destroyed the mill and thousands of good jobs, The mill is still operating, at a profit today.

He was in the forefront, stopping the closing of the only hospital in that area that served inner city residents.

He prevented the banks from forcing the sale of Muny Light, the only source of cheaper energy in the city.

I know Dennis personally, and believe me, he's one of a kind.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. Check this out DR.Phool ..you want to know why your primary vote was stolen..here:
James Roosevelt, who was chair of the Rules and Bylaws Committee that decided to dock Michigan and Florida half of their
delegates and award 4 of the delegates Clinton won in Michigan to Obama, as well as all of the uncommitted delegates,
is the CEO of a health insurance company – Tufts Healthcare. Okay? Got that? The guy who made sure that Obama had the necessary
to delegates to win the nomination – even to the point of assigning delegates another candidate won to him arbitrarily –
is the CEO of a health insurance firm.
And what Roosevelt wants in a health insurance reform, is a reform that relies entirely upon private insurers.
He does not want a public option. He wants a plan like Massachusetts has

: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/04/09/healthcare_lets_build_on_what_we_know/

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

do some googling..you will find lots on James Roosevelt, Jr. and the DNC Ways and Means committee on the delegate decisions in Michigan and Florida..
http://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=James+Roosevelt%2C+who+was+chair+of+the+Rules+and+Bylaws+Committee+that+decided+to+dock+Michigan+and+Florida+half+of+their+delegates+and+award+4+of+the+delegates+Clinton+won+in+Michigan+to+Obama&page=2&nt=SG2&oreq=66ea2dd1351a45ce9c7de9133d8c39d8&s_it=keyword_rollover

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

http://www.tuftshealthplan.com/visitors/visitors.php?sec=about_us&content=senior_management_group

Senior Management Group
Our mission is to set the standard for outstanding quality health care, service, and value. Our dedication to excellence makes us one of the leading health plans in the nation. Meet our senior management group.

James Roosevelt, Jr., President and Chief Executive Officer


es Roosevelt, Jr.
President and Chief Executive Officer
Mr. Roosevelt joined Tufts Health Plan in 1999 as senior vice president and general counsel and held that position until June 2005, when he became president and chief executive officer. As the general counsel, he presided over the legal department and the company's compliance, privacy and government relations functions.

Before joining Tufts Health Plan, Mr. Roosevelt was the associate commissioner for Retirement Policy for the Social Security Administration in Washington, D.C. He has also served as chief legal counsel for the Massachusetts Democratic Party and as co-chair of the Rules and By-laws Committee of the Democratic National Committee, for which he currently serves on the Change Commission. Mr. Roosevelt spent 10 years as partner at Choate, Hall and Stewart in Boston. He is past chairman of the board of trustees for the Massachusetts Hospital Association, past president of the American Health Lawyers Association and past chairman of the board of trustees for Mount Auburn Hospital. Currently, Mr. Roosevelt serves as chairman of the board of directors for Massachusetts Association of Health Plans, and as a member of the board of directors and co-chair of the policy committee at America’s Health Insurance Plans. He is a member of the Massachusetts Heath Care Quality and Cost Council and the board of directors for the Rhode Island Quality Institute. Mr. Roosevelt is also a board member at Emmanuel College and the Kenneth B. Schwartz Center, and is co-chair of the board of directors for the Tufts Health Care Institute. In November 2008, President-elect Barack Obama appointed Mr. Roosevelt to his transition team to co-chair a review of the Social Security Administration.


Mr. Roosevelt received his J.D. from Harvard Law School and his A.B. with honors in government from Harvard College. He has also completed the Advanced Management Program at Harvard Business School.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03.aspx

The DNC weighs in on Michigan

Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:40 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Democrats

From NBC's Mark Murray

DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee co-chairs Alexis Herman and James Roosevelt issued the following memo to members of the committee:

"We have recently been asked whether the legislation as proposed by Michigan would fit within the framework of the National Party’s Delegate Selection Rules. Our review of this legislation indicates that it would, in fact, fit within the framework of the Rules if, it were, passed by the state legislature and used by the Michigan State Democratic Party as the basis of drafting a formal Delegate Selection Plan. If a formal Delegate Selection Plan is received we will convene a meeting of the RBC to consider such a Plan."



yes I stand with Dennis because he is the only one it seems in DC that isn't bought and owned!!!!!!!!!

fly
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
35. One could almost see how that -
tactic could be used to . . . intimidate . . . people into not posting Kucinich threads. No?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
40. I haven't participated much in the hate or the love threads after
Edited on Sun Mar-14-10 02:56 PM by FrenchieCat
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
57. +1
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. I hope so
That is one vote I'll never be ashamed I cast a year later.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
41. No, some are pointing out how useless he actually is..
<snip>

The Case Against Kucinich

"Alex Koppelman makes the liberal case against Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) -- who says he'll vote against the Democratic health care bill because it doesn't go far enough -- noting that he's actually been a very ineffective congressman."

"In fact, according to the Web site GovTrack, of the 97 bills Kucinich has sponsored since taking office in 1997, only three have become law. Ninety-three didn't even make it out of committee." (Political Wire)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x218791

<snip>

"Kucinich's score of -4.22 is not only worse than that of any other Democrat: it is also worse than that of all but 22 Republicans."

He's beating out Arthur Davis for least valuble.


"The analysis concluded that TN-6's Bart Gordon, who voted with the Democrats on 8 of 10 key agenda items in spite of coming from a R+13 district, had provided the most value to his party on key votes. (Unfortunately for Democrats, Gordon is retiring.) Artur Davis of AL-7, who has voted against several major agenda items because he is running for governor in Alabama, was the least valuable Democrat."

<more>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x221273

<snip>

"But if Kucinich joins Republicans in killing health care reform -- as he has said he fully intends to do -- the millions of Americans who'd benefit from the Democratic proposals won't find much solace in Kucinich's deeply-held principles. They need a champion who'll make things better, not an idealist who'd rather wait until imaginary support materializes for a more perfect solution.

And with time running out, and the need for every single vote so great, Kucinich is starting to draw justified criticism.

Daily Kos founder Markos Moulitsas warned on Tuesday night that if Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) plays a role in killing health care reform, a Democratic primary challenger would almost certainly await him in the next election.

In an appearance on MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann, Moulitsas conveyed pointed frustration with the Ohio Democrat's pledge to oppose reform on grounds that it doesn't go far enough. He said Kucinich was practicing a "very Ralph Nader-esque approach" to politics."

<more from Steve Benen>
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_03/022788.php

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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. THANKS
for telling it like it is. :-)
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. He's one of a very few in congress who will take a stand on their position.
Obviously, most are bought off before they even show up for "work".
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
54. He's one of the few Democrats who votes with Republicans, are we supposed
to applaud that?

Strange.
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. I wish he were President.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. He wishes he were president as well, and has tried twice, and given
the option of his candidacy or other Democrats' candidacies, Democratic primary voters rejected Kucinich overwhelmingly.

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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. "given the option of his candidacy?"
Most Democratic voters were given no such thing.

I'd be intereseted to see how Kucinich would perform in a free and fair election.

Sadly we will likely never know. Not in this country.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. He had the same time to prepare for the primary elections per state
as everyone else.

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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #44
56. I think you're trying hard to come up with excuses...
as to why Kucinich doesn't do well in presidential primaries. It's often argued here that Obama owes his victory to the liberal base as they are not spoon fed their info from the MSM, they do a great deal of the work in the campaign and raised quite a bit of money for Obama. But the reason the liberal base didn't do the same for Kucinich is because, you say, the elections are not free and fair.

It cannot be said that Obama is ignoring his liberal base if the outcome of the election was rigged in his favor as those who rigged the election would then be his base.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. I guess I have a higher standard as to what a representative of the People should accomplish
Give me the late Ted Kennedy, Russ Feingold and yes, Barack Obama (among others) as leaders who can get things done, albeit not with the "perfect bill" but with ones that make actual advances for the progressive cause. I'll take a progressive step toward actually helping the People over bloviated, ill-wraught conjecture that barely makes it out of committee...again and again and again.

Anyone can whine from the sidelines. Kucinich is the perfect example of that. He also admits he saw a UFO by Shirley MacLaine's house once. He also is a prick to work with and will be historically seen as an ineffective presidential candidate who could barely get 2% of the vote of the people.

Are people too stupid to want to vote for Kucinich? Surely, purists who know more than anyone else in the room can attest to that.

:crazy:


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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. their #1 job under the constitution is to protect the people..not provide legislation..
and to do what their constitutants want..it is why we all have our "own state" representation in congress and the senate.


but you knew that didn't you?

Their job is not to get legislation forward..but to protect us from bad legislation..I would say Dennis is doing a great job for his constitutants!..and one of the few that is!
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Not higher, just highly selective
First, you are comparing three Senators to a House member. But hey, that's fine, let's take a moment to review some of Obama's Senate votes. He voted with the Bushies on the Teri Schaivo debacle. He agreed with Video Frist, that the government should meddle in end of life decisions.
He also voted against equal rights when he joined the conservatives yet again to help vote down the Uniting American Families Act, a version of which Senator Kerry is still bravely attempting to get passed. On that one, Obama stood with his self described good friend Senator Coburn, who ran on a gay panic and 'lesbians in the bathrooms' platform that Obama seemed to think was a dandy way to run for office, as he used hate preachers and the like on the trail.
So when you say 'get things done' you mean Schaivo? The inequality? Or is it really an unfair tactic, this hair splitting?
Also, Dennis is an elected Democrat, and it is too late for anyone to file to oppose him in the Primary. So one has to assume you are posting in favor of the Republican in that race. There is no Democratic alternative in his district, so please, clearly state your objective here.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. Check out my post upthread for a small sampling.
Dennis does a lot for his constituents, and he's unbeatable in his district. He's the only guy I'm sending money to this year.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. Will Kucinich's constituents be happy with him voting against what they need that he has?
Kucinich has very good health care coverage that he apparently thinks that others are not good enough to be able to have. It's really that simple.

If he really cared and was a decent legislator (which he is not), he would vote for the bill with the full intention of making it better down the road, as all controversial legislation has gone through.

What does he want to give for his constituents that can't get coverage for pre-existing conditions? A middle finger.


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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Oh, is that the new meme? He has it, they don't?
That's the problem. He wants them to have what he has. Nobody else in congress wants to give it to them!

The people want health care. Not a mandate with no cost controls. Do you trust the insurance companies to play fair? Like Wall Street? The insurance companies are going to make a bad bill worse.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. Apparently, They floated it yesterday and it has stuck.
I predict it'll last a few days and will make it into the lexicon for future use, where it will join such all-time classics as "he flip-flopped on abortion", "He believes in little green men", and the all-time winna, "he's unelectable".


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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #39
49. Yeah, people want health care reform. IN 20 YEARS?
Do you understand that if we kill health care reform because of pinheads like Mr. 2%, there WILL BE NO HEALTH CARE REFORM for a generation.

Do you get that?

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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. There is no real health care reform in this bill.
Do YOU get that?
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DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
14. I said it before and...
..I'll say it again...

I regret not writing in Dennis Kucinich's name on my ballot Nov. 4, 2008. That's a mistake I WON'T ever make again.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. and these hate threads..do nothing to make people dislike DK..they only confirm resolve of people
that there are paid people pushing propaganda to the American people..and it becomes more obvious by the day!
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
16. Actually yes, he does seem to be a poor strategist, and yes, he does not
appear to work well with others.

There's no evidence that he is good at either of those things.

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
18. the bravest stands are the ones taken against groupthink
rock on DK. you speak for me.
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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #18
55. It costs DK nothing to make the stands he does.
He holds a safe Dem seat and as far as I know, he hasn't faced a serious primary challenge since he was first elected to Congress.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
23. Excellent post...
...from beginning to end...:thumbsup:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
26. People who are not open to compromise aren't effective, they're obstructionist.
Case in point: Kucinich voted against SCHIP because it didn't go far enough. He reversed his opposition because the majority of people couldn't understand such a ridiculous vote.

"The vast majority of Congress members" recongnize that they need to compromise in order to provide the same health care benefits that they now enjoy to uninsured Americans, saving thousands of lives immediately.

Kucinich does not.

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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. yup -- those washington people who OBSTRUCT a public option because they made private deals
with big business are far MORE Ineffectual to the American Public.

And the minions who spend hours trying to tear down the opposition on boards are *also* obstructionist traitors to Democracy.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. What is it about
not having the votes that so hard to understand?

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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
27. K&R for Dennis
He stands for "ineffective" people like myself.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
29. End the wars, and Medicare for all!
Prosecute the Bush war criminals!
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
31. It can be argued that Kucinich is pushing the party MORE to the right.
Interesting comment from Nate Silver's thread today: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/03/stats-say-kucinich-may-be-least.html


Mainer said...
I'd argue that Kucinich pushes the party RIGHT, not left.

The thing is, if Kucinich votes no, then the Democratic leadership has to get the vote elsewhere and the main stash of votes on the bubble are from Blue Dogs. Thus they end up either changing the bill to appeal to them or cutting a deal on another legislative priority (or simply putting in an earmark) to get that other vote.

If Kucinich had voted with the leadership to begin with, that wouldn't be necessary.
March 14, 2010 8:55 AM
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #31
51. That is a twisted and contorted argument.
Considering the BCBS dogs have all but defined this bill and haven't had to compromise on a damn thing I don't really know where they are going to get More BCBS dogs to vote for it. That is unless they count Liebermann and that would be utterly revealing in my opinion.
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krawhitham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
32. 3% is average?
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
33. So thinking Kucinich is ineffective is now labeled "hate." Nice going.
Another DU'er effectively dismissing all those opposing their opinion by labeling them "haters." What bullcrap.

I don't hate Dennis Kucinich--I just think he is ineffective.

And why? Because, contrary to what the OP claims, he IS a poor strategist, doesn't work well with others, and is impractical and delusional. And because of that, he's incapable.

No, he's not unintelligent. He just doesn't know how to use his intelligence to get anything done.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Yes. It's quite common to be called names for disagreeing with the mighty DK
here on DU. Even when presenting emotionless facts and data to demonstrate how he's hurting the party.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. God is beyond reproach you know
:crazy:
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
38. Well said..thank you. n/t
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
42. Kick to the top! With the other #$#$&^ DK threads!
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
46. k&r.
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jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 04:57 AM
Response to Original message
48. Great observation
It comes down to standing for principle, and the right thing, against the corporate establishment.

Too bad the others are so effective in funneling money to the bankers and troops into Afghanistan.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
50. so you are saying hes a MAVERICK?
Dennis is our Sarah Palin. Fucking awesome.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
53. Good post.
Edited on Mon Mar-15-10 09:55 PM by flvegan
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