Despite all those lying about elements of this bill, talking as if it doesn't help anyone,

[jenmito]

with everyone trying to stop this bill like they tried to stop medicare and social security,

this too shall pass.

And when it does, we WILL be better off.

:thumbsup: for history being made this weekend.

[MercutioATC]

1. I don't believe that anybody has said that it won't help ANYONE...

...just that it will hurt more people than it helps and/or that there are much more responsible ways to craft health care reform.

[kestrel91316]

4. Yes they have. You'd think it was the work of Satan himself and people here

were fresh off the Mayflower.

[jenmito]

7. I've seen many posters here say this is nothing but a "corporate sell-out" that

will HURT people-not help.

[cilla4progress]

12. How will it hurt more than it helps?

[vaberella]

17. Your wrong. They have. n/t

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

20. In the end it I think that it will help more then hurt. There is some solid stuff in this.

The mandate without a PO is lame. An exchange and what appear to be decent subsidies and relatively modest fines isn't so bad. It's a disappointment that this is the best we could do with the majorities we have, but I'll take it.

[Clio the Leo]

2. back 'atcha....

:thumbsup:

[jenmito]

8. Thanks, Clio.

:hi:

[Deep13]

3. I understand there is no ban on discrimination for preexisting conditions.

The corporations get four years to drop everyone they don't like--me for example. And then it will be extension after extension and the ban will never be enforceable.

[kestrel91316]

6. Well, you understand WRONG. There is an IMMEDIATE end to discrimination

against children with PEC's, and until the ban on discrimination against adults with PEC's kicks in in 4 years, adults with said PEC's can buy into the high risk pool.

Just read some of babylonsister's posts debunking the myths complete with links to FACTS.

[cilla4progress]

13. If one believes the act will hurt more than help, she believes Republicans

and a few remaining lefty congressfolks, along with conservaDems. If one believes it will help more than hurt, one believes Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, Kucinich, Sanders. I think I'll throw in with the latter group.

[Deep13]

15. Well, I knew children would be protected...

...and that's a start anyway. Promises to take certain actions in the future have a way of not coming true. And if they have enough money, people can buy into high risk insurance now.

I'll read the link you provide when I get home from work.

[rufus dog]

5. k&r

:thumbsup:

[beardown]

9. Lying about lying to make a case.

I don't think that the "they" that tried to stop medicare and SS are remotely the same "they" that tried to stop the Conscripted Consumer for Health Insurance Companies bill, albeit some that were against M and SS were against this bill. I don't recall any discussions around DU that stated that no one would be helped, although I admit that I didn't read all of them.

Your WE who will be better off includes the health insurance industry and I'm guessing that after the democratic party get hammered for passing mandatory health insurance the repubs will be better off starting after the 2010 elections and they and the health insurance industry will team up to make sure that the bill gets twisted around in a few years to shrink the number of WE down to be basically the health insurance industry and the healthy.

History was made. A democratic party that held the presidency and strong majorities in both houses of congress rolled out a health reform bill that did not include a single payer, a public option, an end to the anti trust exemption to the health insurance, or strict price controls, but did include mandatory health insurance and fines.

[jenmito]

11. On which planet do you spend most of your time?

You don't remember Ronald Reagan talking about how Medicae would lead to Socialism? Sound familiar? The rest of your post is rehashed talking points that have been answered over and over and over on this site already.

[beardown]

21. Reagan opposed this bill from the grave?

Interesting comment from someone asking what planet I've been on.

If you'd read my comments, instead of trying to come up with an insult you'd have caught the part where I said some of the folks that opposed Medi and SS would have opposed this bill, but many opposed it because it was the dems tossing a stripped bone to the progressives and calling it a steak.

Rehashed talking points? The bill has no public option, no single payer, no end of anti-trust aren't talking points. They are the cold, hard facts and trying to equate the reality of this bill to talking points is disturbing if it's your response to try and eat carp and still enjoy it.

But keep attacking liberals so it will be easier for the DLC and corporate dems and fascist repubs to turn this reform bill into the biggest give away to a industry since the TARP.

You know, I had to watch in disbelief over the last several years as working class repubs bent over and asked for another one as Bush and the neo cons heaped ever more oppressive economic conditions and anti-Constitutional crap on their backs and now I sadly see the dem working class have joined the self defeating band wagon. If this bill is the best you think you deserve then maybe you deserve it.

[Fruittree]

16. If it's true

that the big beneficiaries will be the insurance companies then why are they spending so much money to try to stop it? I think we need to have a little more faith and not focus on the worst possible scenario.

[beardown]

22. THEY DID STOP IT.

No public option. No single payer. No break up of their anti-trust. Pre existing don't kick in for four years. Mandatory that citizens buy PRIVATE insurance.

This is not the bill we elected Obama and a democratic senate and democratic house to pass.

[CakeGrrl]

10. k/r

Whether the naysayers like it or not, this is a step in the right direction.

[Raine1967]

14. K&R!!!!

:kick:

[NJmaverick]

18. K&R

[girl gone mad]

19. It may pass, but I don't believe anyone will be significantly better off.

That's my honest assessment after an extensive read-through and dialogue with a legal adviser.

The community centers are good, pre-existing condition coverage for children is good, though both are of limited real world benefit.

Forcing everyone to participate in the broken system is not good and if it transpires, which I doubt, it will most certainly harm the people who have found better alternatives to the American insurance bureaucracy.