Would the Stupak problem go away it there were an up or down vote on the Senate bill?.

[Perky]

The entire reason for Deem and Pass is to provide some Dems, lacking moral courage from voting for the Senate Bill... but at this point it makes little difference, because the however politically addled the populace may be, they understand that you are voting for HCR when you vote for the Deem and Pass.


So if you un-tether the bill... and vote for the Senate Bill on its own merits, there really is no difference. Having done that you then move the question on the Reconciliation bill as planned. That changes the dynamic considerably. it cuts out Stupak's leverage since you pick up some more support from fiscal conservatives who see it as costs savings. You can give Stupak the right to offer amendment and it fails on voice vote and that might be the end of it.

[LiberalFighter]

1. No. It's just a made up excuse.

There has been enough publicity about the vote that they know that when they vote on the one they are voting on the other also.

Stupak I believe has been offered the opportunity to have his amendment voted on later this year. An amendment that is not necessary because it is already the law and effects all legislation unless the legislation specifically says otherwise. And the current HCR bill does not specify that there is additional abortion coverage beyond what is already in effect.

When it pertains to coverage for abortion the HCR bill will have the same coverage as every damn Congress Member and their staff has for their health coverage.

[Orangepeel]

2. deem and pass is also because progressives don't trust the Senate to pass the reconcilliation

Hoyer described it as agreeing to buy a house but with the stipulation that they fix the roof

[karynnj]

4. Hoyer's analogy is good.

[karynnj]

3. I don't think so

You would have the same problem of getting 216 votes, still losing Stupak and any followers he may have AND you would lose any group of people who are willing to vote indirectly, but not directly and any others that are nos regardless of how it is done. It is THIS vote, direct or indirect, that has any difficulty. At this point the easiest way to make Stupak irrelevant is to use the AMA and other medical entitites, the unions, and other impressive endorsements to try to win as many of the nos - even the nos from November to vote for this.

On the abortion issue, it would be great if someone like Senator Casey could enlist priests and bishops to call these people becasue it really does not fund abortion and the Catholic church has always fought for healthcare. What may be happening is that Stupak saw himself as a hero - he singlehandedly got a provision in the House bill that he thinks cuts the number of abortions. (This can easily be seen as not likely, but I am speaking of his motivation). In his mind, this may have been the greatest, most moral thing he has ever done. He had no reason to concede if he thought there was even a remote chance he could win anything on this. But, when he really has no more leverage - I would not be surprised to see him vote for it.

[Perky]

5. OMG, It happened. I posted the OP early this AM.