Did we just pass the Dole plan? Well, if so I am glad we did.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

I understand the desire to appear moderate, but I was somewhat pained by Clyburn's (detailed and forceful) talking point on the Ed Show that what we just passed is all but identical to what Bob Dole proposed as the Republican alternative to Bill Clinton's healthcare plan.

Jeez... I guess we should have taken Dole up on it if we were going to wait 16 years to pass the Dole plan.

Yeah, yeah... I know. We want to make the bill appear Republican as part of selling the bill to the public. I get that.

But it is kind of jarring to note the national regression. We should have jumped at the Nixon plan... We (apparently) should have jumped at the Dole plan... and so on.

Well, if we are rolling backward, as we seem to be, then I am glad we got the Dole Hillary Obama plan passed.

And I mean that in all seriousness.

We have great momentum on things like gay rights but we do not have progressive momentum in all things. Reproductive rights seems to be flat and enthusiasm for government programs slipping, so it really was essential to get something passed this time.

Otherwise in 16 years we would hear a Dem saying that what we just passed, finally, after all these generations, is essentially the Boehner Plan from way back in 2010.

[msongs]

1. alan grayson has a plan that is progressive and liberal nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

3. Not saying there aren't things better than what we passed.

I am not a great fan of the particulars of what we just passed.

Just noting that the trend doesn't seem to be our friend on this issue.

[Dappleganger]

2. It doesn't matter WHOSE plan it was unless they voted for it.

If their name is not on that bill as a yes vote, they can't own that bill.

[polichick]

4. My husband and I were just talking about "national regression" - it's stunning...

...that we should be in this place knowing what we knew had to be done way back in the 70s.

But those who speak to the "reptilian brain" take us back over and over again - and Dems try to counter it with "moderate" logic when the only way to reach the reptilian brain is to talk about survival.

[grantcart]

5. It's not so much that they want to appear moderate

Its that at the time that the Republicans are making one of the greatest strategic blunders of all time they are using their knives to seperate independents from the increasingly strident Tea/Republican Party.

It forces the Republicans to continue to be redfaced and angry because a rational discussion on the subject will end up with the Republicans saying, "Yes of course we know its not a radical plan and we support vast parts of it" they are baiting the Republicans to be rational and the Republicans are becoming more and more irrational - John McCain will not participate in anything till the election (well except if Canada invades the US then he will act in the national interest).

They are reframing the congressional election in the fall as "All rational people are for it" versuss "The Republicans are losing their minds in opposition".

And in all honesty I suspect this was the reason that the Public Option was taken out at this point so that the larger issue of Federal involvement could be framed as "Everyone but the kooks" issue, making it easier to add Public Option and eventually Single Payer later.

[Cleita]

6. It's also very similar to the one Bush's campaign website was promoting

when he ran against Kerry. No doubt he borrowed much of it from Dole. Also Arnold wanted the a similar plan for California after he vetoed single payer, twice, which is what Californian's wanted.

[Oregone]

7. 16 years? Aren't you forgetting about Nixon's NHIPA?

Im Bob Dole, and I copy Nixon when out of ideas. You can take that to the bank.

Hell, if it wasn't for those damn liberal Democrats and Ted Kennedy, we could of passed this plan almost 40 years ago! Damn them.

[Hippo_Tron]

8. Bob Dole pulled a bait and switch during that whole process

Like today's Republicans he realized the political value in defeating the President at all costs and thus by the end of it he was even opposing whatever the hell it was he was proposing in the first place. Thus anything he was proposing in the first place probably wasn't a genuine proposal on his part.