In the unlikely event that a Batshit or Youbetcha became President, would you leave the country?

[Rage Inc.]

I would! And you can call me a coward if you wish: I won't argue. Thing is, I have a wife, a son and two daughters. Fuck, I'm not even sure we should stay now, given the teabagging, neoconned Beckerheads screaming their suddenly-discovered "outrage" at THE GOVERNMENT. (Read: OH MY GOD OH MY GOD THERE'S A BLACK MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!)

I don't want to believe that Sarah, or Bachmann, or Liz the Devil's Daughter could actually win the Presidency, but I still CANNOT believe that George W. Bush was elected in '04!

The noble thing to do, I suppose, would be to stay and fight the wingnut Administration. But, should such come to pass, I honestly don't think it would be safe---and I mean physically safe---to do so!

Anybody know about immigration procedures for Australia or New Zealand? (Hey, if the time comes, I'm looking for an English-speaking country as far away from here as possible!)

[NJmaverick]

1. If liberals start working politics in a smarter manner that would never happen

[ClassWarrior]

7. "You speak to biconceptuals the same way you speak to your base: you discuss progressive values."

I couldn't agree more, and neither can Professor Lakoff...

The very idea that there is a "center" marginalizes progressives, and sees them as extremists, when they simply share fundamental American values. The term "center" suggests there is a "mainstream" where most people are and that there is a single set of views held by that mainstream. That is false.

The fallacy matters in terms of Democratic electoral strategy. The Democratic base consists of people who are mostly or totally progressive, just as the Republican base consists of people who are mostly or totally conservative. How does the Democratic Party as a whole, and how do Democratic candidates in particular, speak to those who are biconceptual?

I am a cognitive scientist and believe that people's brains play a significant role in elections. From the perspective of brain science, the answer is a no-brainer. (Sorry, I couldn't resist!) You speak to biconceptuals the same way you speak to your base: you discuss progressive values, and if you are talking to folks with both progressive and conservative values, you mainly talk about the issues where they share progressive values. What that does is evoke and strengthen the progressive values already there in the minds of biconceptuals.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/no-center-no-centrists_b_60419.html

NGU.

[NJmaverick]

10. In my opinion "biconceptual" is just a fancy term or justification

for self destructive behavior. The threat the right poses to our nation is real and we can't afford to live in a world of theory and ideology. We need to be smart and we need to be effective and above all else we need RESULTS.

[ClassWarrior]

11. You think speaking to our values is "self destructive behavior?" That we need to act more like...

...Rape-Publicans in order to defeat Rape-Publicans?

:eyes:

The losing strategy is to move to the right, to assume with Republicans that American values are mainly conservative and that the Democratic party has to move away from its base and adopt conservative values. When you do that, you help activate conservative values in people's brains (thus helping the other side), you offend your base (thus hurting yourself), and you give the impression that you are expressing no consistent set of values, which is true! Why should the American people trust somebody who does not have clear values, and who may be trying to deceive them about the values he and his party's base hold?

Harold Ford is a perfect example. He just wasn't believable as a good ole boy Tennesseean when he took conservative positions. He just didn't seem real. The "not a real Tennesseean" ad pointed up the discomfort that Ford's overt appeal to the right aroused in Tennessee. It was perceived as sleazy, and the "Call me, Harold" ad pointed to it as well. The ads were racist in part, but they were more than just racist. It would be hard to imagine such ads directed at Barack Obama.

NGU.

[NJmaverick]

12. Again you speak in a manner that is self destructive and leaves our nation

vulnerable to the horrors the right can bring. I am a volunteer Emergency Medical Tech. As such I VALUE life and would like to ensure that every single patient I see lives. Yet that doesn't always happen there are people that are beyond my ability to help. That doesn't mean I am going to give up being an EMT because my work doesn't always meets my values or goal of saving every life. I work hard to the goal and appreciate that I have way more victories than failures.

[ClassWarrior]

14. What in heaven's name are you talking about?

:crazy:

NGU.

[NJmaverick]

17. The real world

[ClassWarrior]

18. Nice third-grade debate strategy.

When you're losing an argument, hurl a load of nonsensical gibberish and run away.

:rofl:

NGU.

[NJmaverick]

19. What grade level debate strategy uses emoticons to try to insult?

[ClassWarrior]

20. Okay, I'll bite... What does being an EMT with a God complex have to do with Dems working smarter?

NGU.

[NJmaverick]

22. So you are saying that people that think that their values must and will prevail every time

suffer from a "God Complex". Perhaps you should ponder the implications of your own words.

[ClassWarrior]

23. No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is coherent. Maybe reading the article before you...

...offer an ill-informed opinion on it would be a good place to start.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

37. Waitaminnut... "Their" values?? So you admit that your values are conservative values?

NGU.

[Rage Inc.]

42. How easily you forgive the racists!

[Skinner]

2. Let me google that for you.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=immigration+procedures+for+Australia+or+New+Zealand

I'm staying.

[midnight]

3. I wish getting a loan was that easy...

[Robb]

15. Hey!

That's my snarky gag! :D

[DevonRex]

29. And Skinner's not even a dingbat!

:hi:

[Cha]

46. Wow, that's funny...and fancy

snark.}(

[YvonneCa]

51. ...

... :) Same here.

[doc03]

4. Other counties have immigration policies like

we do or even stricter than ours. I thought about moving to Canada for their health care since I am retired, I found we are not welcome there.

[Fire1]

54. That's too bad. They e-mail me every other day begging me to

complete forms!!

[Jennicut]

5. No. Leaving equals giving up.

[abluelady]

6. I've Thought About Leaving, Too

But I don't know what immigration policies are like in all other countries. I also don't know enough about the way government works in other countries, so I might end up just as frustrated. I am beginning to feel unsafe right now where I live (a purple state with lots of rednuts).

[Rage Inc.]

25. Stay safe!

I never thought it would come this low, especially after what was achieved in the 60s & 70s!

[jschurchin]

8. No Chance.

Of me leaving the country I love and served. Or of the stark raving fruit loop being elected anything close to political office again.

[onehandle]

9. No. And I wouldn't worry. Not a chance in Hell. Palin will Never run for office again.

She wants the bigger bucks and is getting them.
(and on a national scale, she is unelectable damaged goods)

Bachmann will be lucky to survive this election.

Period.

[Lerkfish]

13. I researched it when Bush got his second term, in a nutshell, here is what I remember

My age at the time knocked me out of immigrating to Australia unless I had a job there ( I think they discourage people close to retirement from going there and then getting on the public dole)
You either had to have a job or willing to invest a large sum of money in their economy. I think its a lot easier if you're younger.

Belize speaks english and had very relaxed entrance but at that time there were a lot of warnings about americans being kidnapped or assaulted.

Canada wanted you to have a skill in a list of vacant openings or have a lot of money to start a new business. The reason I was leery though was more due to the way their govt. was becoming as conservative as ours at the time.

What I settled on was New Zealand. It had the fewest restrictions for someone my age and were still allowing immigration.

But what soured me on leaving was how the Bush adminstration seemed to be a virus that infecting all other english speaking countries (remember the lapdog Blair was at the time).

and I came to the realization that unfortunately, if things are bad in America, they are likely bad everywhere else.

That was my experience, anyways. Things may be different now, and your situation may be different.

[Rage Inc.]

24. But you DID think about it!

I'm glad you stayed, however! I myself shall stay unless and until the wingnutocracy actually achieves power!

Kiwis...

[blueworld]

16. I would never leave, but I understand what you're saying

What's the old quote? "Evil thrives when good men do nothing".

I sincerely doubt that Batty or Betcha could rack up enough votes for a senior government position of any type. However, dramatic as it sounds, we who see them for the danger they are have an obligation to oppose them - safe or not. Just my opinion; I'm a geezer:)

[ShortnFiery]

21. Nope! That may be the only way that the American People will truly wake the hell up.

The DNC called me up yesterday and asked for money. I told them to come back when they STOOD-UP for progressive values that includes a robust public option for health care and and end to these two horrific and unjust military occupations. I don't think I'll be getting a call back soon? :shrug:

I'm not going to ever vote for the GOP, but I also will not vote for a warmongering corporate democrat. Both Webb and Warner, my VA Senators are on their own OUT THERE. They'll either turn progressive or we'll have *the worst.*

Sometimes people have to REALLY HURT financially before they rise up and say "no more."

That's where I'm at now - Progressive Democrats are the only politicians I will vote for ... and yes, progressive MUST mean those with enough spine to defund these INSANE Occupations.

[southernyankeebelle]

26. Bush never won elections in 02 or 04. People don't get it the voting machines

were tampered with. You were right no one with a right mind would have elected him in the first place. Now you see what happens.

[DevonRex]

27. Hmm. English only, huh?

:eyes:

[Ozymanithrax]

28. No... n/t

[styersc]

30. Then do us a favor and leave now.

Too much work to do to worry about spineless idiots who throw a tantrum if things don't go their way. That's what teabaggers are for!

[Rage Inc.]

31. Your failure to understand is noted.

But NOT appreciated. How old are you? I'm guessing that you're not a parent.

[styersc]

36. I am a proud parent of a wonderful daughter.

She deserves strength from her father. Times like these require resolve and a willingness to sacrifice. Cowards get in the way and its better that they flee since they will never be of any use.

[Rage Inc.]

38. Hey, if it happens, this coward wishes you luck, Big Man!

I hope that your daughter survives your posturing!

[styersc]

43. No luck necessary. My daughter has a dad with a backbone.

Best of luck to your family though.

[azmouse]

32. No.

I survived boosh... I can survive anything.

[TwilightGardener]

33. I would WANT to, but I wouldn't. I'd seek out fellow sane people

and commiserate. Actually, since I always end up in red states, I feel like I do that already.

[Peacetrain]

34. Nope.. not letting the like of them drive me across the street, much less out of the country

:)

[tranche]

35. Step outside. Look around. You realize things aren't all that bad.

During the Bush years that helped every time.

[Divine Discontent]

39. agreed - how B*sh "won" in 04 is beyond understanding. Huge lines for Kerry everywhere, and B*sh

was very unpopular in most populated areas.

[Rage Inc.]

40. "How can 59 million people be so DUMB?"

I forget which British newpaper had that accompanying a photo of Bush on their Nov 5, 2004 front page, but they had it!

[proteus_lives]

41. No, I'd stay and fight.

Cowards run.

[Orsino]

44. I'm already planning to emigrate.

A Republican president, or even a shift in the balance in Congress, will add urgency.

[Kltpzyxm]

45. yup

outta here. there's a point where the stupidity has gone too high and you have to leave for your sanity. that would be it.

[Blue_In_AK]

47. If Sarah became president of the United States,

I might consider joining the Alaska Independence Party. :rofl:

[cherokeeprogressive]

48. Not on your fucking life. I don't know how to be more clear than that.

NO one scares me so much I'd consider leaving the country of my birth, ESPECIALLY that bunch of couch potatoes. I have Second Amendment rights too. And, I'd almost guarantee I'm a better shot and have more ammo.

[Zech Marquis The 2nd]

49. as a member of the military

I wouldn't have that option anyway--plus I'll probably be stationed overseas anyway. Also, I didn't leave the country during the * 8 year reign of terror and survived. I seriously doubt that Sarah Youbetcha will get that close to the White House.

[saltpoint]

50. Many who would like to wouldn't be able to, but my god what a

long way we would have fallen from Madison and Jefferson and Paine into Palin or Bachmann.

[mnhtnbb]

52. We went through a lot to create an escape hatch for ourselves after Bush

gained four more years in 2004. We actually hold permanent resident visas in Panama.
Hubby and I are both retirement age--he's now 67 and I'm 59--and it was very difficult
to get things set up in Panama. We got caught in the economic downturn when it came
to getting a house built and after Obama was elected we decided to give up on creating
an escape hatch in Panama (although we still hold the resident visas). We've decided
to stay put --at our ages--and live our lives out here.

If you really want to go, you should start looking at your options now. New Zealand and Canada
won't take people of retirement age.

[depakid]

53. Already gone, and wishing you all luck with it...

America's unlikely to change its trend to the positive- though it's possible that you can slow the decline somewhat.

[ladywnch]

55. we've already had this conversation and we will ABSOULTELY leave

if they got elected. We've decided on Canada.....not sure where in Canada...we're still working on that part. But if this country is stupid enough to elect either of those two morons this is no hope left and no reason to stay.