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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 06:52 PM
Original message
"Evidence Mounts of Strong Recovery"
Evidence Mounts of Strong Recovery

By MARK WHITEHOUSE

Shoppers turned up in surprising force at U.S. stores, auto dealers, restaurants and elsewhere in March, adding to a growing sense that the recovery could prove faster than anticipated.

Combined with a rebounding service sector, rising financial markets and new efforts to forgive mortgage debts, March's 1.6% surge in retail sales is tempting forecasters to upgrade their assessments of the economy's ability to restore the 8.2 million U.S. jobs lost since the recession began.

The renewed consumer and business activity also helped propel J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. to a 55% profit gain in the first quarter, increasing optimism among investors that banks, too, are rebounding from the crisis that floored the industry.

"There's a growing risk that we're underestimating the strength of the recovery," said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at Pierpont Securities, noting that deep recessions tend to be followed by steeper recoveries. "If the economy pops, it's going to be faster than anyone is forecasting."

In the latest Wall Street Journal economic-forecasting survey, three out of four economists, including many of the most optimistic, said their growth forecasts over the next 18 months will more likely prove too low than too high. On average, the 56 economists in the poll expect U.S. gross domestic product, a measure of all the money spent on goods and services, to rise an inflation-adjusted 3.1% in 2010. Some nudged their estimates upward Wednesday, with Barclays Capital going to 3.8% from 3.5%.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average rallied Wednesday, rising 0.94% to close at 11123.11, after the retail-sales report came out. The Commerce Department said consumers spent a seasonally adjusted $363 billion in March, up 1.6% from the previous month and 7.6% from a year earlier, not adjusted for inflation. The annual rise, aided by better weather and an early Easter holiday, was the largest since July 2005.

<snip>

Since the economy turned toward growth in mid-2009, economists have offered a litany of reasons that the recovery should be exceedingly sluggish. Heavy debt burdens would weigh on consumer spending, wounded banks would pull back on lending, and a glut of foreclosed homes would keep house prices and construction activity down.

Many of those factors are still in play—and even the most optimistic estimates of U.S. growth remain well below the 7% to 8% level seen in the wake of previous deep recessions. Bank lending has been shrinking at the fastest rate in more than six decades, the supply of foreclosed homes turned up in early 2010 and construction activity remains subdued.

What's different, though, is that those headwinds aren't holding back U.S. consumers. Economists now expect inflation-adjusted consumer spending to grow at an annualized rate of more than 3% in the first quarter, up from earlier estimates of less than 2%. As consumers shed an increasing amount of debt through defaults, and as the government implements new incentives for banks to forgive mortgage principal, the added relief could help keep the spending going.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304798204575183683432202678.html?mod=wsj_share_twitter


I work in retail. Last month was our strongest March in 8 years. (and I'm POOPED!)
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bad news for the (R)'s.
Which delights me.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. This will still be rough election year
But I feel cautiously confident that by mid-2012 people will really feel this recovery and Democrats will be poised to benefit.

We may have to start thinking about dealing with a GOP House in 2011-12, with a large class of freshmen, who would be juicy targets for defeat in 2012.
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PhilosopherKing Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. We have to remind the voter that
the Democrats fixed what the Republicans broke.
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. If we can get unemployment down from 9.0 and run on
HCR and Wall Street regulations and economy recovery - we'll be fine.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. JOBS!
Jobs, jobs, jobs. Until jobs are being created in a major way, this economy is, at best, a dead cat bounce.

It is nice that the economic numbers are perking up a bit, and a realize that employment is a lagging indicator. But the fact of the matter is that it's looking more and more like we're creating a permanent unemployed underclass. Real unemployment numbers are sitting over seventeen percent, and at a job creation rate of 162,000/month, that's not going to go down anytime soon.

We also need to keep an eye on commercial real estate. A lot of ARM's are supposed to reset this summer in the commercial real estate sector, and that means a lot of businesses are going to go under. This could very well send the economy back down, hard.

It is nice to see the numbers perk up a little, but frankly all of this profuse praise rings false to those of us like myself who cannot find a job. I'm graduating in May, looking to teach. I've already got roots, literally, in my current community, so I can't move to where the jobs are like younger folks. I'm seeing a total of three teaching jobs that I fit with in a a thirty mile radius, and there are over five hundred people out there applying for them. Sorry, but happy, happy, joy, joy over the upturn in a few numbers is not currently in my vocabulary.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Um..
people in foreclosure are not out buying new cars, furniture and appliances.

Sorry, but this jolly talk is just plain goofy.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. these folks think there are still some stupid people around these parts dumb enough to buy the
Edited on Sun Apr-18-10 07:26 PM by flyarm
propaganda..

or they are being bought to sell this crap?????

a friend of mine has been waiting 4 months for a one day temp job........and still nothing.........

and from what i have just read in the past couple days..( i believe it was in wash. post) even many of the 45,000 temp hired census workers have been laid off ..many without working one day..and some have been laid off and still not paid for one day's work!

Asthe saying goes..there is no recession if you have a job..

If you don't have a job as over 8 million + of Americans don't in the past 2 years..it is a depression!

oh and the 8 + MIllion are those that are still counted......

seems there is alot of bullshit flying around here lately!

(Shhh..they think we don't know who they are posting it!)
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Just a complete lack of critical thinking skills, imo.
Where were sales improving? Luxury goods, large appliances and automobiles.

People defaulting on their homes are not going on a spending spree buying refrigerators and Gucci bags or replacing their unaffordable home payment with a new car payment.

This article tries to have it both ways. Banks are lending less, foreclosures are skyrocketing and earnings and jobs have not budged, but somehow Americans are going to go back to spending just like they did in the bubble days when they were taking out huge loans against their overvalued houses and everyone with a pulse (and their dogs) got multiple charge card offers per day?

Sorry, it isn't happening.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
28. 300,000 foreclosure notices in the First Quarter of 2010
While that number is large, it's a pretty small portion of the nearly 130 million housing units in the United States. And the fact is that some people wind up with MORE disposable income after forclosure because they're not struggling to make a mortgage payment that they can't afford (or two mortgages payments, in some cases). More disposable income means more economic activity at the grassroots level, and not just payments going to the bank.

So the reports of the economy rebounding (which is what economies do after a recession) are not likely just wishful thinking.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
32. I know so many people out of work it isn't funny
most are in their 40s and 50s and 80 percent are in the construction industry in one area or another. Those jobs are not coming back anytime soon.
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Saw a note the other day (forget where) that some have speculated
the strong retail numbers are helped by stategic foreclosures - ie - people who have deeply negative equity and can afford to make the payments, but have stopped paying since that would be a bad investment. They will be kicked out after 6 months or so, but they will have free rent for that time - and during that time they have been shopping. No idea if that is a reasonable conclusion or how many trateguc defaults there are, but seemed like an interesting take on the subject of strong retail sales.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Strategic defaults are nothing new.
Edited on Sun Apr-18-10 07:55 PM by girl gone mad
People have been "walking away" for 2 to 3 years now. I doubt they are contributing much, if anything, to this recent bump in consumer spending.

Tax refunds, UE extensions, cash for clunkers and homebuyer credits are all much better explanations for the gains.
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. I tend to agree with that.
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golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Oh common...don't be such a killjoy
get with the OP meme and start dancing!
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. reported Sunday morning..35% increase in housing foreclosures last month
some fucking recovery!

:wtf:

and 465,000 new unemployment claims..

yeah keep up the corp line!!!!!!!
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The Northerner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. +1
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. +2
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. The foreclosure process had stalled in 2009...
.... giving those under the threat of foreclosure a chance to catch up on their payments. What we're seeing now are those who couldn't being foreclosed on en masse. If this is what you're hanging your recovery hat on, you'll have a few more months of disappointment ahead of you.

Foreclosures began to ease last year as banks came under pressure from the Obama administration to modify home loans for troubled borrowers. In addition, some states enacted foreclosure moratoriums in hopes of giving homeowners behind in payments time to catch up. And in many cases, banks have had trouble coping with how to handle the glut of problem loans.

These factors have helped slow the pace of foreclosures, but now that trend appears to be reversing.

“We’re finally seeing the banks start to process the inventory that has been in foreclosure, but delayed in processing,” Sharga said. “We expect the pace to accelerate as the year goes on.”

In all, more than 900,000 households, or one in every 138 homes, received a foreclosure-related notice, RealtyTrac said. The firm based in Irvine, Calif., tracks notices for defaults, scheduled home auctions and home repossessions.

Homeowners continue to fall behind on payments because they’ve lost their job or seen their mortgage payment rise because of an interest-rate reset. Many are unable to refinance because they now owe more on their loan than their home is worth.

The Obama administration’s $75 billion foreclosure prevention program has only been able to help a small fraction of troubled homeowners.

About 231,000 homeowners have completed loan modifications as part of the Obama administration’s flagship foreclosure prevention program through March. That’s about 21 percent of the 1.2 million borrowers who began the program over the past year.

Another 158,000 homeowners who signed up have dropped out — either because they didn’t make payments or failed to return the necessary documents. That’s up from about 90,000 just a month earlier.

Last month, the administration expanded the program, launching a plan to reduce the amount some troubled borrowers owe on their home loans and give jobless homeowners a temporary break. The details of those programs are expected to take months to work out.

http://www.telegram.com/article/20100418/NEWS/4180698/1002/BUSINESS


In other words, the spike you're seeing is NOT from people who are just NOW STARTING to have trouble.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. save the %$#%$$..unemployment just went up in Fla to 12.3 ..12 broke all records..
we are breaking records every month..

No one is buying shit here..but the Brits..

and they are the only tpurists we are seeing in a tourist state! That and other europeans..I feel like I am in foreign country now getting on the elevator in my beach condo!

We have 14 condo's in foreclosure...we had 15 but another Brit bought one of the forclosures..

stores closed everywhereeeeeeeeee..............

Restaurants closed Everywhereeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...........

Businesses closed everywhereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee............

Now even NASA that were promised by Obaa that they would not lose there jobs..our local news said 9,000 will lose their jobs and the businesses that support Nasa will make up way moreeeeeeeee..........

we have record foreclosures.........

but nation wide 35% increase in foreclosures you want to play propaganda with?

save it.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. While 33 other states added jobs last month....
Edited on Sun Apr-18-10 09:09 PM by Clio the Leo
.... we could do this all night.

33 States and D.C. All Added Jobs in March
Fri, Apr 16, 2010

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics released some upbeat news Friday as 33 states and the District of Columbia all added jobs in March.

Maryland led all states with the addition of 35,800 jobs in the month. Virginia was next with 24,500 additional jobs and was followed by Pennsylvania (22,600), Indiana (16,600) and New York (11,700).

The biggest declines occurred in Michigan, which lost 9,500 jobs in March, followed by Nevada (7,100) and Florida (4,000).

Other statistics of note include: California ( down 458,600) and Texas ( down 160,800) had the largest one-year job losses, North Dakota had the lowest unemployment rate at 4 percent, and 15 states and D.C. had double-digit unemployment rates in March with Michigan (14.1 percent) the highest.

http://www.employmentspectator.com/2010/04/33-states-and-d-c-alll-added-jobs-in-march/


You might want to take it up with Charlie.

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golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Do you have a breakdown of public sector Vs private sector jobs?
TIA
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Lots of info here....
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. The only reason for the 'recovery' is to justify all those million dollar plus bonuses.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
21. I sincerely hope so. But....
Elizabeth Warren says the real estate market is going to crash soon, costing trillions in equity and harming midsize banks, which she says small businesses rely on.

Not only that but from 2010-2012 the option ARM residential mortgages will adjust, and it will be as big of a foreclosure crisis as the subprime collapse of 2008.

So the real estate and financial collapse won't be over for another 2-4 years from what I can tell.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
22. LOL!
For some folks, this is terrible news, not to be believed ever! As if this would be true,
then what they have advocated for since Obama became President has been the lie.
I don't think they will admit that, so look out for them to continue to find every possible
negative about the economy and trumpet that. The sad part is that of course the economy
isn't back the way that one would hope.....but even sadder still, these folks, "hope" that
it would be worse still. They don't really like the United States, they don't even like Americans,
but worse still, they hate this President so much, one could cut the hate with a knife.

Odd how the haters have to want America to fail in order to be right. That must feel strange....
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
23. recommend
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
24. Attention all liberals and progressives
we need you more now than ever, go to the polls this novermber and VOTE.We can't allow sun tan man and mr. chinless be our speaker and senate leader.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Just thinking of Jeff Sessions calling the shots on the Judicial Committee
should be making us not want to see that fucked up nightmare....
cause that's what it would be....truly!
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
27. This sounds good but still some major hurdles ahead...
Jobs, real estate, and debt burden just to name a few.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
29. Unemplyment must decrease to silence Republicans!
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
30. Good luck in selling this BUNK. eom
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
31. Drive down the street and look at all the For Sale signs
Edited on Mon Apr-19-10 06:39 AM by cornermouse
Look at the obviously empty, unlived-in houses without For Sale signs. Drive through the commercial part of town and look at the new and fairly new malls with unoccupied spaces.

We aren't in recovery. We're still going down.
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quiller4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Not in my neck of the woods-far fewer commercial vacancies
than there were a year ago with new shops opening. Last year there were lots of mall vacancies. Now there are none in the mall closest to me. The number of vacant houses for sale is way down. Retail sales are up in my county by more than 5% over last year. New car sales are up by an even greater percent.

We are a long way from our economic peak in late 2006, but the Pacific Northwest is on its way back.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
33. Until the jobs market shows improvement these statistics are meaningless
to most people. It may mean good news for Obama in '12 but not necessarily for Dems in '10 if unemployment remains high.
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