"FDA will limit amount of salt allowed in processed foods for health reasons"

[Clio the Leo]

Ok, this one seems kinda lame, but the excessive amount of sodium in prepared foods is a HUGE petpeeve of mine. :)

FDA will limit amount of salt allowed in processed foods for health reasons
By Lyndsey Layton
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 20, 2010
The Food and Drug Administration is planning an unprecedented effort to gradually reduce the salt consumed each day by Americans, saying that less sodium in everything from soup to nuts would prevent thousands of deaths from hypertension and heart disease. The initiative, to be launched this year, would eventually lead to the first legal limits on the amount of salt allowed in food products.

The government intends to work with the food industry and health experts to reduce sodium gradually over a period of years to adjust the American palate to a less salty diet, according to FDA sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the initiative has not been formally announced.

Officials have not yet determined the salt limits. In a complicated undertaking, the FDA would analyze the salt in spaghetti sauces, breads and thousands of other products that make up the $600 billion food and beverage market, sources said. Working with food manufacturers, the government would set limits for salt in these categories, designed to gradually ratchet down sodium consumption. The changes would be carefully calibrated so that, hopefully, consumers barely notice the modification.

The legal limits would be open to public comment, but administration officials do not think they need additional authority from Congress.

"This is a 10-year program," said one source. "This is not rolling off a log. We're talking about a comprehensive phase down of a widely used ingredient. We're talking about embedded tastes in a whole generation of people."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/19/AR2010041905049.html?hpid=topnews

Now ... if they can just do something to prevent restaurants from serving such HUGE portions.

[tridim]

1. Good move, but salt is also a preservative in things like spaghetti sauce.

Watch for mold.

Edit: Not that I'd ever buy processed spaghetti sauce.

[csziggy]

80. Acid foods like tomato based sauces are fairly easy to can without a lot of salt

Same for high sugar products such as preserves or jellies. What to watch are canned vegetables like green beans and canned meats. They are nearly ph neutral and are more likely to go bad. Of course if you reduce the acidity of the tomato sauce very much, you can run into problems - probably why home canners tend to can tomatoes or juice and make their sauce from those products later.

I've done home canning and managed to do a pretty good job of it - but I was very, very careful during the processing and VERY VERY careful about checking the finished products before we used them. The most failures were in canned potatoes and green beans - but only after a couple of years. The least failures were in the massive batches of apple butter. I thought they were all gone, but found two jars in the pantry today - canned in 1993, they are still sealed and seem to be OK.

[TommyO]

2. Ah, the food police are at it again.

[tinrobot]

13. So, just let corporations put whatever they want in our food?

[paulsby]

18. here's a fucking hint

if you don't want to eat it, DON'T BUY IT

i make my own sour pickles. they have WAY more salt than most processed foods

it's MY choice

not the government's

[flpoljunkie]

26. Here's another hint. If it's not salty enough for you, use your salt shaker.

There's way too much salt in some foods--so much that the predominant taste is salt and overpowers the other flavors.

[paulsby]

36. then don't BUY and EAT those foods

i don't... usually

that's not the point. the point is govt. PROHIBITING their sale

nobody denies some foods have too much salt

the point is that it's not government's role to decide for US

[flpoljunkie]

43. I don't, but we cannot let greedy corporations go unregulated. Salt is addictive.

[paulsby]

44. i care far more about overreaching govt regulation than :"greedy corporations"

in this regards

w./o govt. regulation, i have 100% choice. i can buy that stuff or not

CHOICE

"greedy corporations" have no power to make me buy that stuff. but govt. has the power to LIMIT my choices.

with govt. bans, they are reducing my choice

fuck that

i will make my choices and live with them.

the other day, i bought some salo at a ukrainian market

this is, like crudo, a block of cured 100% porkfat

it's MY FUCKING CHOICE

[Dr Morbius]

66. "Greedy corporations" have already limited your choices.

Did you not notice? Go through a grocery store and there are perhaps three brands of any given product. No more, and sometimes only two. Please don't fall for the meme that "government wants to take away your choices." In truth, most of your choices have been made for you in the name of maximizing profit.

I agree that this is a place I don't want government to go. But the thing is, we no longer have a natural economic market. In the name of a "free market" all the rules have been taken away, and a handful of exceedingly wealthy players have divided every pie. It's easy to tell people not to buy the stuff with a lot of sodium, but low-sodium alternatives, if they are available, are up to twice the price. It isn't like most Americans have spare money these days; those few that do have the money don't have the rime to cook proper food, because it takes two incomes to raise a family. So the "free market" is making it difficult for folks to make the wise choice.

I'd much prefer a tax on high-sodium products. I don't think government should ban them or force foods to be prepared with less salt; I rarely eat Bugles but I love Bugles and the two or three times a year I buy a bag, I'd like them to taste right.

[paulsby]

67. here;s a hint

i don't have to shop at a grocery store

i can shop at any # of farmer's markets, specialty stores (i go to a combo ukrainian/mexican market in federal way that is AWEsome). i also go to a korean store (hmart) that offers some great and very cheap fish/seafood and asian staples

choice

spare me the americans don't have the time crap

that's rubbish. it's excuse making

the average adult watches 4+ hrs of teevee

there is plenty of time

it is NOT difficult

keep govt. the fuck out of this arena

why should i be forced to pay more for high salt products because OTHER people abuse them? that's fucking stupid

and of course they won't apply these measures to haute cuisine, only to lowbrow stuff, and juset like various alcohol regs, etc. they disproportionately nanny the poor people.

[Dr Morbius]

74. Government has no right to prevent you from harming yourself over the long run.

But government does have an interest in discouraging such behavior. Taxation is the way to do that. Is it not preferable to having government ban the substance?

A few hours ago you felt government shouldn't ban high-salt products; now you oppose taxing them. Your recommendation is apparently that we do nothing, that Americans continue to deteriorate in health, and a handful of very wealthy corporations get wealthier.

Whose side are you on?

Please, riddle me this: if a given substance does harm when ingested to excess, what should government do about it? Nothing?

[paulsby]

78. rubbish

my recommendation is not that we do NOTHING

my recommendation is that we don't cede power to govt. to LIMIT OUR CHOICES AND OUR FREEDOMS

there are plenty of things we can do

we can educate ourselves and others.

we can use church groups, community groups, schools, etc. to teach about proper nutrition

we can encourage doctors to stop just treating symptoms and work at, and help patients, work at CAUSES

nannystaters like you will always use stuff like this to increase govt. power and decrease choice. fuck... that.

keep your taxes off my sour pickles (although i primarily make them on my own. hard to find a good sour pickle in seattle. \)

and my gravlax (ditto)

and my pretzels, etc.


"if a given substance does harm when ingested to excess, what should government do about it? Nothing?"

ANY substance, and i include water, when ingested to excess doers harm.

iirc, it was hippocrates who said 'all things are poison in sufficient dose'

french onion soup has metric assloads of salt.

so do LOTS of other expensive cuisines.

here's a hint.


MOD-ER-A-TION

and stop using this crap as an excuse to increase the power of govt. over the most intimate details of our lives. and here's a hint. what we choose to put in our mouths is one of the few things that we have near complete control over, AND must accept the consequences thereof.

i choose to eat very healthily and with an eye towards performance. you can choose to be healthy or a fat fuck. just don't go whining to me and blaming govt. or corporations. NEIHTER have the power to stuff food down your gullet. that's your power, and you reap the consequences of bad decisions

there is nothing preventing a person from buying an entire container of morton salt (when it rains, it pours) and dumping it in their food. but we want to micromanage how much salt a restaurant can put in their soup, or god forbid their pickles, lox, salted salmon, etc.

patronize those restaurants that offer low sodium stuff On the menu, and ime, most restaurants will make any # of dishes w/o salt IF YOU REQUEST it.

keep govt. the fuck out of my bedroom and my salt shaker

[Dr Morbius]

81. You misinterpret me, I think.

I asked what government should do. You answered with what "we" should do. How do you propose government get church groups to teach people about proper nutrition? They first must teach the church groups themselves, and now you're directing public funds to religious organizations.

I do NOT propose an expansion of "government power", and incidentally, since it is OUR government, it is our tool to use. Government already taxes some substances, like alcohol. Alcohol when consumed in moderation is relatively healthy, and extremely dangerous when consumed to excess. Government has a right to discourage excessive use because there's an incurred cost to society by our collective decision to consume alcohol. This minor tax probably doesn't serve to discourage consumption much, but it is as far as government has a right to go. Then there's tobacco; government taxes tobacco rather heavily although tobacco has none of the dangerous side-effects of alcohol to society. But smoking causes medical problems and the occasional deadly fire, so again, when people CHOOSE to use these products, they are doing harm to society and government - the tool of the people, mind you - isn't terribly out of line applying the tax.

"The" government is our government. It's a device we've invented to regulate commerce, establish and maintain laws, and protect the people. It isn't a monster. Stop being afraid of it. If you're unhappy with our government feel free to change it; it was designed to be flexible. There is no reason to be scared. I am a statist, not a "nanny-stater".

It is not an expansion of government to tax high-salt or high-fat foods when government already taxes tobacco and alcohol. I do not want government to micromanage the food industry; I'd prefer this industry to be a lot more local and have fewer giants, but that's a different discussion. I see no problem, and a bit of wisdom, in taxing indulgent and unhealthy food.

[fishwax]

39. nobody's coming after your sour pickles

[Arugula Latte]

40. They'll take his last sour pickle when they pry it from his cold, dead fingers!

[tabasco]

69. LOL.

:rofl:

[Zoeisright]

52. Oh please. The amount of sodium in processed foods is obscene.

Americans consume two to three TIMES the recommended amount of sodium every day, and 75% of that comes from processed foods.

Grow up.

[TommyO]

54. Grow up? I'm not the one who needs a nanny to tell me what to eat.

[Odin2005]

70. This is one of the few places I agree with the Food Nazis

It's kind of hard to have a choice when ALL the stuff has HFCS and other shit in it and better stuff is expensive.

[dorkulon]

87. Yeah, those darn food police, denying us our right to eat rat poison.

Let's just deregulate food production entirely--that way, every meal will be an exciting gamble!

We've already seen the free market solution: Obesity and hypertension.

[Wilms]

3. It's health care reform.

I figured this would happen, though not so soon. There may well be a push to mitigate some of the causes of chronic disease. I don't particularly mind.

[napi21]

4. This is good for anyone who eats mostly processed foods, but

salt is also an important thing in our diet. My mother made almost all her foods from scratch and bough into this no salt BS so much that she didn't add salt to anything. She was hospitalized after falling at home. I visited her in the hos< one day & she was delerious! She told me about watcvhing her funeral and how nice it was that her grandsons came. How she saw them pull up & park their cars....[br />
I was freaked! IU went out to the nurses station and asked what in the world was wrong with my monther? They said her electrolites were unbalanced because of the LACK OF SALT!

Everything in better when consumed in mondration.

[Clio the Leo]

6. definitely....

... but there is NO REASON why soup needs to have 600mgs of sodium.

[paulsby]

19. and there is no reason why YOU have to buy such soup

i wouldn't

choice

it's what's for dinner

[defendandprotect]

10. Natural salt is contained in all of our vegetables . .. especially things like cole slaw ...

Natural sugars in our fruits --

[tinrobot]

16. Cole slaw contains vegetables, but it is not a vegetable

Cole slaw is a dish containing cabbage and a bunch of other stuff. There are dozens of variations. You can make cole slaw so it's salty... or not.

[Enthusiast]

24. I'm pretty certain that defendandprotect

is aware that cole slaw is not a vegetable. Geesh.

[defendandprotect]

28. Broccoli, Celery, Cauliflower, Leaf Lettuce all higher than "cole slaw" ...+Sweet Potato ...

Broccoli and Sweet Potato the highest in sodium --

Carrots --

Raw . . .

Btw, celery with hummus or peanut butter is delicious --

that is pnb without anything else added!

[Enthusiast]

35. Anything high sodium bothers

me almost immediately now. I take four different BP meds. The high salt also bothers my wife but she has normal BP. We are both 57.

I added NO salt to the venison enchiladas I made yesterday but the canned green enchilada sauce tasted noticeably salty. Overall the salt should be fairly low, however.

[defendandprotect]

57. Natural salt in foods is different from table salt --

HOWEVER . . . you should follow your own instincts and doctor's instructions --

Venison is an animal and would have SALT, naturally --

All animals have salt in their bodies -- just as we do!


It's also like sugar -- there is a difference between natural sugar in fruit --

and processed sugar.

[Enthusiast]

59. Yes the deer are crazy

for salt. Where I grew up the Indians had a special place they hunted where the animals came to lick a natural salt concentration. :hi:

[defendandprotect]

27. Eh, yep -- that should be GREEN CABBAGE . . .

Love cole slaw --!!

[defendandprotect]

29. Of course . . .

I was talking about green cabbage -- my apologies!

I am NOT talking about ADDING salt to foods, however --

I am talking about the NATURAL SODIUM content of many vegetables --

:)

[shimmergal]

90. I ended up in the hospital from an

electrolyte imbalance, for the same reason. I was taking a diuretic plus eating a low-salt diet for my high blood pressure; that was entirely too much of a "good" thing. Apparently only about 1/3 of hypertension is traceable to excess salt intake, but even most doctors advise everyone to limit their salt intake drastically, because "it can't hurt."

Fortunately the hospital's physician had run into this before and prescribed a different mix of medication. Adding to the original problem was my HMO's pressure for prescribing cheap generic medicines. I ended up having to fight to continue on Altace, which cost me $65 a month for many years, until its generic finally came on the market.

[DrToast]

5. Salt won't do much. They should do this with sugar if they really want to make a difference.

[Clio the Leo]

7. I always say....

.... that the biggest drug in America is so potent we don't even consider it a drug.



... and I'm due for another hit. ;)

[defendandprotect]

11. Imagine that they let them put the COKE vending machines in schools . . .

basically brown sugar water --

[unpossibles]

14. but the extraneous salt and sugar are related

Reduce the amount of salt allowed and odds are they can't use as much HFCS either or things will taste too sweet.

[DJ13]

8. Stupid

If the food ends up bland people will (over) salt it themselves to correct the situation.

[tinrobot]

15. Or they don't add salt, but at least they have the choice.

Once the salt is added, you can't remove it.

Also if the food is bland without salt, then maybe the company making the food needs to increase the quality of the ingredients.

[TommyO]

25. Some things need to be salted/seasoned while cooking

Pasta cooked in unsalted water is bland, as are potatoes, they need to be salted while cooking, you can't do it afterwards.

[tridim]

32. Yep, flour doesn't taste like flour unless it is salted

Ever had sodium free bread? :puke:

I even salt my coffee. Just a few grains makes coffee taste like super-coffee.

[defendandprotect]

9. Unbelievable amounts of salt in some foods -- and it's addictive ...

plays a large role in high blood pressure --

sugar, as well -- makes the blood sticky!

Only a small amount of salt is requried in breadbaking --

and often sugar is added to breads!

Campbells's soup is a killer with HUGE amounts of salt --

Spaghetti sauce something like 25% sodium!



Our population is addicted to salt very early on -- used to be in baby foods.
Don't know if they've completely eliminated it?

Also part of the addiction to animal-eating -- and dairy --

A cow's milk is salty to encourage the calf's veins to expand and grow --

Meanwhile, it will do the same thing for you!

[cognoscere]

12. Here's a news flash for food producers who insist on putting enough

salt in their products so the entire daily requirement is met in one meal: A consumer can ALWAYS add more salt to taste; they can't take it out once you assholes have put it in. It's kind of like baking something. You can always bake it a little longer, but once it's burned, you can't remove the excess heat you added.

[paulsby]

20. here's a newsflash for consumers

if you donb't want high salt products, DON'T BUY THEM

i eat a lot of gourmet olives (high salt), i make my own sour pickles (high salt), heck, i make my own gravlax (salt cured salmon

my choice

lots of companies offer low sodium alternatives and will continue to do so if consumers demand it.

[Jennicut]

23. You can't get certain foods without the high amount of salt put in though

some products have come a long way. As for sugar-free stuff and whole grains, I am still waiting for more products to be made. If only I could find decent whole grain crackers that don't taste like cardboard. That is when you start making stuff yourself. I am a type 1 diabetic so my diet is limited to begin with. It costs a lot to eat healthier, which is sad.

[paulsby]

37. that's great

then open your own company and market them. or lobby others to do so

but keep govt. out of telling companies how much salt they can put in foods.

it's the consumer's choice

for fuck sake. the same people who are for legalization of drugs (such as me) see no problem with govt. telling companies how much salt to put in food

and you don't see a problem with this?

[Jennicut]

41. What they need to do is offer more choices rather then regulate.

Of course, that is not cost effective if it costs more and not enough people will eat it. Hence, the making your own food.

[paulsby]

42. it is up to the consumers to create the demand

and the companies to respond to it.

and if that doesn't happen, GOD FORBID - make it yourself

too many people rely on processed foods anyway. and even with NO salt, processed foods are invariably (well almost) less healthy and satisfying than homemade

and spare me the "people don't have the time"

the average adult watches what, 4-6 hrs of teevee a day?

[Jennicut]

45. True. The demand for the type of food I need is not high.

Low sugar, whole grains. Although they DO make whole wheat pasta now. Not enough type 1 diabetics out there...only about 800,000 of us compared to type 2 which is about 12 million. Still, all diabetics should eat well. Maybe I need to open my own company some day. You are giving me ideas.

[paulsby]

47. a lot of niche health companies have done quite well

lifeway, for instance, that sells kefir. i got in on that stock near the beginning and did very well. they market kefir, which is (kind of like yogurt) and very popular with russian immigrants, etc.

when i was a kid, food choices were much more limited. there's more good stuff available, but also more crap.

there are WAY more healthy cereal choices now, for instance.

some of the big corps HAVE tried to offer healthy choices, but they never sold. case in point was the "mclean" that mcd's marketed way back in the day. it was a lower fat, lower sodium burger. nobody BOUGHT it, so they stopped making it


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_Deluxe_line
"The McLean Deluxe was marketed as a healthy alternative to McDonald's regular menu. It was released in the United States in 1991. It had a reduced fat content compared to other McDonald's hamburgers. This was achieved through use of 91% lean beef and the addition of carrageenan to the meat. The McLean Deluxe was originally designed as a replacement of the McDLT. Like the McDLT, and despite performing well in taste-tests, it did not sell well and was dropped from the menu in 1994.<7> "

i also constantly pimp wendy's chili

it's a buck for a small, it's pretty tasty, and it's nutritious


also the jack in the box fajita pita. otoh, the FJ does have high sodium

[Jennicut]

56. Ah, the chili. I eat that if I go to Wendy's (which is not often). Shame about the McLean.

It never caught on. My husband loves fast food. For me, I barely touch it.

[paulsby]

63. i treat it as a treat

on occasion, i will indulge in the paulsby special (tm)

double quarter pounder with cheese
large fries
2 apple pies
and a diet coke (lol)

i make sure i have my defib on standby mode

[defendandprotect]

31. Restaurants also universally heavily salt food -- difficult to avoid ...

Yes, you don't have to buy pickles or Campbell's soup --

but much of the food offered is pre-salted --

limiting the choices for those who want to avoid it.

We need more choices --

There's are delicious seasonings -- like olive oil and balsamic --

ginger, whatever which provide healthier choices.

[paulsby]

38. i don't disagree

i disagree that we should cede authority to the govt. to make these choices FOR US

[defendandprotect]

46. You'd have no enforcement if you didn't -- it would be like waiting for

Mississippi to end Segregation!!!

Again, salt is addictive -- that's why it's used in foods.

People don't realize it --

as well as sugar -- one of the delis I go to pick up other things puts

sugar in their potato salad and cole slaw!

You know how many people even know that?

That's also why deli meats -- and bacon -- are so popular -- heavily salted.

And, Americans develop that addiction in youth --

Breast milk and cow's milk are salty to encourage the newborn to expand its vein system

and to grow. That's why dairy products are a problem in obesity.

And that's why the baby foods used to capitalize on nature and exploit us by adding

sugar and salt to baby foods!

[paulsby]

49. i don't WANT enforcement

don't you get it?

it is perfectly reasonable to say
1) too many companies make too much salt laden crap
2) i don't want GOVERNMENT regulating how much salt goes in these foods

if people can't READ THE FUCKING LABEL, it is THEIR OWN FUCKING FAULT

i want CHOICE and i don't want the heavy hand of govt limiting our choices because some people are irresponsible

when i want my sour pickles (ludicrous amounts of sodium), it's MY choice

it's the constant "do it for the children" and "we need to protect people from themselves" that results in such odious expansion of govt. power

get involved. advocate for healthy food choices. BUY healthy stuff. keep govt. the fuck out of my choices

[defendandprotect]

53. Here's another example of why you should want ENFORCEMENT . . .

At some point back, FDA information made clear that a lack of folate -- folic acid in it's

synthetic form -- was responsible for SPINA BIFIDA. How many women and families even know

that now? How many organizations concerned with pre-natal illnesses even mention that?


What is requried is for young girls/women to eat raw, fresh vegetables.

Fruit, as well.


Evidently, this is also linked to Down's Syndrome! Smaller percentage link, but linked.

Think of how many young girls are starving themselves right now to be thin --

and how many are eating Big Macs and drinking Coke rather than fresh fruits and vegetables.


Whether a lack of folate, or salt -- these are issues which heavily impact the health of

Americans. Almost every American over 65 has high blood pressure -- and is taking medications

which create many more illnesses!


PREVENTION is simpler than trying to treat a problem AFTER it arises.


And, we all PAY one way or another for those illnesses, financially -- and often with having

illness ourselves and within our families.


The PS on the folate story is that the FDA did nothing with the information for years --

never conducted a campaign to advise females or families! Finally, they were sued by the

an organization I can't think of the name of right now -- terrific organization -- Dr. Bernard.

And they were forced by the lawsuit to respond. Rather than telling the American public how

to avoid Spina Bifida, they put folic acid into bread.

Organizations concerned with these diseases have also done little but whisper about ways to

prevent them! Evidently, they don't want to put themselves out of business, either!



And, that's why capitalism is suicidal!! And, why it is murderous for humanity and the planet!

[defendandprotect]

55. Salt in most of our foods also leave FEW choices, rather than many ....

[paulsby]

61. then dont buy them

there are WAY more low/reduced sodium choices NOW than there were when i was a kid

why?

because consumers created a demand

[defendandprotect]

77. You're talking about canned foods ... who buys that?

Actual life involves restaurants and needing to buy food when you don't have time

to cook fresh vegetables, etal --

How much do you cook and prepare meals for others?

We have a great vegetable store near us and it also offers a lot of prepared foods --

you couldn't possibly eat the cakes or pies because they are so overladen with heart

attack ingredients --

Among the vegetables ...

the roasted vegetables are heavily salted and then parmesean cheese thrown on top --

It's almost impossible to get anything which isn't covered in dairy, salt or sugar.

Despite the fact that they are offering pastas with vegetables, cole slaw, eggplant,

whatever. Almost nothing can be made without cheese or salt or sugar being added.

You can get a cucumber sandwich with apple on a great whole wheat bread, mixed greens and

artichoke dressing. You can get any kind of salad you want -- any kind of dressing.

That's why I go there.

You can find chili there almost twice a week but vegetarian chili only every 6-8 weeks.


There are times when you need to be able to buy prepared foods.

And eat in restaurants --

[defendandprotect]

30. They know that -- they also know that salty foods are addictive . . .

that's why they produce them!

That's why baby foods long had salt in them --

[JoeyT]

17. Well thank god for that.

You'd almost think we were adults that were capable of making choices.
We apply drug war logic to food and wonder where the nanny label comes from.

As an added bonus, since sodium is such a cheap and effective preservative, I hope you enjoy chemical stew. Ten bucks says that in five years the same people that are happy to fiddle with everyone's food are outraged over the amount of artificial preservatives in food or at the cost increase.

Edited to add: I'm not a fan of huge amounts of salt in my food either. Nor am I a fan of huge restaurant portions. I just read the label to avoid tons of salt and don't eat huge portions in restaurants. Problem solved.

[Soulis]

21. Health reasons? No.

Prevention-of-lawsuits-against-corporations reasons.

[Arctic Dave]

22. Good. I hope sugars are next.

If you want more, add it.

Better yet, if you prepare your own dishes.

[NJmaverick]

33. NO!!!!!!!

:wow:

[ZombieHorde]

34. We should ban football because it causes injuries. nt

[defendandprotect]

48. ... and it encourages violent competition -- something we can also do without --

We should move from the male warrior sports to something saner --

[Odin2005]

72. Bull. Sports channel agressive tendencies away from actual violence.

[defendandprotect]

76. Partially right . . . Superbowl Sunday violence against women . .

is that what you mean?

[Odin2005]

79. No, that is NOT what I mean.

I mean that if you don't channel an aggressive child's behavior into something like sports he/she will act out that aggressiveness in the form of anti-social activity like fights, crime, etc. You cannot change a person's personality, but there are good ways to be aggressive and bad ways to be aggressive.

[defendandprotect]

83. We need to study the causes of aggression -- and certainly we don't need to

supply ways for one child to "tackle" another child in order to satisfy some alleged

theory of aggression.

Females seem to survive without having to engage in tackling one another --

what's really behind the wrestling and the tackling?

Male aggression is the problem -- let's deal with that!

[Odin2005]

89. Blank slate nonsense.

There certainly is many environmental influences (such as child abuse and "macho" cultural norms) that exacerbate aggressive tendencies, but that doesn't mean there is no biological causes. It is a fact that testosterone increases aggressiveness (female hyenas have high testosterone levels, for example, and androgen-based steroids also increase aggressiveness, hence "Roid Rage", and stating that fact does not mean I am excusing violent male behavior in any way. Your anti-sports bias is ridiculous puritanism.

[defendandprotect]

93. Ah, the ole patriarchy adage: male violence is normal . . . ???

What we may need is a colostrum revolution --

Babies who are breast fed seem to be much more peaceful, intuitive --

Human males aren't hyenas --

and I'd recommend that you read what Howard Zinn has to say in various articles,

talks and videos -- i.e., male violence is not normal.

And, if you ever watched anything to do with the military, that point is very

easy to get. They have to work feverishly to get males to become murderers.


Your anti-sports bias is ridiculous puritanism.

I'm all for sports - especially those where the individual tests him/herself against

others without aggression and without anger and without abusive physical contact.



Here's what I was getting at -- and it's certainly not "Puritanical" --

"The worship of muscular male forms is a weakness of men and not of women" --





:)

[fishwax]

82. except for that the whole notion of superbowl sunday violence against women is a myth

There's no evidence to support that violence against women increases on the day of the super bowl. There was once speculation, that has since frequently been repeated as fact--but it's not supported by the numbers.

[defendandprotect]

84. Right -- cause we know how women make up these stories of being battered . . !!

[fishwax]

86. That's silly. I never said any such thing.

[defendandprotect]

88. True, you didn't --

However, with or without Superbowl Sunday we have enough male violence without

letting them practice it in sports --

Boxing, for one, was on its way out when resurrected by the right wing --

And, males are primarily the sexual abusers of children --

Also : The right-wing "Family Research Council" notes/confirms findings that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men."


Time Americans began to acknowledge this aggression and violence by males and begin to study

and deal with it.

[shimmergal]

91. The "Superbowl surge in violence

against women" has been disproven.

Another case of tossing around statistics recklessly. Apparently there _is_ an increase in emergency room admissions on Superbowl weekend, but here's why. The numbers jump up because guys with sedentary jobs tend to play touch football afterwards {or before?], and a certain number get themselves injured.

Oh, and did you know the number of vasectomies peaks right before the Final Four playoff?

[defendandprotect]

94. It has not been "disproven" . . .

but it is obvious that many males have tried to attack the information --

and cast doubt on it --

Evidently, emergency room visits by battered women did increase on Superbowl Sundays --

but not sufficiently for there to be overwhelming evidence of the connection --

just a spike.

[GoneOffShore]

50. We should ban football because it's stupid.

[defendandprotect]

58. Love the way you get right to the point--!!

It is "stupid" -- !!

:)

[golfguru]

51. This is very good news!

For me individually, nothing is worse than consuming salt (sodium).
Sugar is no problem since I am not diabetic and not over-weight.
White flour is no problem since I walk 15-20 miles each week.
Booze is no problem since I drink so little.
Nicotine is no problem since I do not smoke.

But the salt is ubiquitous in everything I eat. It is very hard
to avoid, and it causes my blood pressure to go high.

So if FDA controls salt in foods, 3-cheers!!

[Ikonoklast]

60. Good. We have too much sodium in our diet as it is.

From all sources, additional salt is for the most part unneeded.

If a person wants more salt, they can put some on their food themselves.




And this fact escapes some of the libertarians posting on this thread.

[Dappleganger]

62. Why is it necessary to put so much sodium to food that your mouth goes numb?

If you make your own food on a regular basis from scratch, then eat something processed it can be a real shocker.

[defendandprotect]

85. Salt is addictive . . . which is what brings people back to places like MacDonald's ...

Salt, fat, sugar --

[jesus_of_suburbia]

64. If they want to be our nanny, why don't they start with replacing HFCS with cane sugar.

(High Fructose Corn Syrup)


That's something I would get behind. It tastes better AND is better for us.

[golfguru]

92. HFCS is no problem for me since...

I walk 15 to 20 miles EVERY week and burn it up. The salt otoh
mostly stays in my body and jacks up my blood pressure and there
is little I can do about it. And I hate taking pills to counter
the effect of salt on my blood pressure since all pills have
side effects.

[Uzybone]

65. Excellent.

[Ron Green]

68. The libertarians on this thread shouting "NANNY!"

need to understand the difference between public policy and anecdotes. I get that they're all into choice and they want to buy and eat whatever food they intimately understand to contain whatever substances they've studied.

That's a completely different issue from regulating a food supply that's controlled and developed by corporate interests to have a long shelf life and sometimes addictive properties.

As someone said upthread, use your own salt shaker if you want, but let good science and good public health policy make people's lives better.

[Odin2005]

73. They are like the smokers that don't get that non-smoking bars are hard to find...

...in places without a smoking ban. :banghead:

[Odin2005]

71. GOOD!

[Gman2]

75. The exact same people were screaming leave my partially hydrogenated veg protein alone

Leave my rancid oils alone. I CHOOSE to poisin myself. I dont CARE if it tastes just as good to leave it out.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

95. Good for them!

I get sick of misleading labels like "HEALTHY CHOICE", and read how they have so much salt in them.

They can't make soup without lots of salt in it. I will fix campbell's chunky soup and put in a gob of sour cream to cut down the salt.

I have hypertension, have had it for twenty years and take 3 diff meds for it every day.

Ya can't buy any frozen dinners that have a low amount of salt. Some of the snack makers have come out with things like Low Salt Wheat Thins.

I switched to sea salt in my cooking. It's much more flavorful and it takes less of it.

I'll have to make my own French Onion soup I guess.