President Obama will have ended two wars by the time his first term is over!

[FrenchieCat]

Has any other President done this ever before,
or is this another first?

[vaberella]

1. Two wars and saved a dismal economy---and no, no one has. n/t

[Vidar]

2. Dream on.

[ProSense]

7. Shouldn't you be doing that too? n/t

[FrenchieCat]

I'm not dreaming.....

I'm going by evidence......

I'm sure you'd rather he didn't.
Sorry to disappoint you!

IT will be alright, I'm sure you'll find something else
to be upset about.....cause there will remain a lot of shit to undo...
as he said, he may not get it done in one term.....
But looks like he's gonna try.

[mdmc]

101. Why wouldn't the Taliban hang low until 2012?

The pro-USA Afghan government will need to be able to stand for the long haul.
What if they "cant stand on their own" for another 100 years?

Bush made the right choices in Iraq and Afghanistan if we are able to withdraw in victory by 2012..or 2020 for that matter..

[knightinwhitesatin]

83. Keep telling yourself that Frenchie

Both Iraq are Afghanistan are dependent on conditions on the ground.

[LibDemAlways]

87. If I didn't know better, I'd say Michelle is keeping busy

doing PR for her husband here on DU. Dream on is right.

[phleshdef]

3. LOL. Thats one of those unrealized profound things that should have been obvious.

Bush started 2 wars and Obama ended 2.

[MNDemNY]

13. Obama has ended none.

[phleshdef]

21. Iraq pullout is all ready in progress, Afghanistan's pullout date will be in a year and a half.

I know, its hard for you to face that Obama will have effectively ended 2 wars by January 20th 2013, because its a reality that doesn't cater itself to the negative picture that you would rather paint. I feel sorry for people like you to be honest. This sort of history in the making really bites you on the ass, doesn't it?

[Fire1]

56. True that. n/t

[NoSheep]

114. Not as exciting as getting all upset but hey...he said he'd be their president too!

:shrug: Can we get a forum for people who don't prefer to make things up in order to get all upset?

[tridim]

50. .

[FailingParachute]

126. Ssshhhhhh

In ObamaLand putting in troops means taking them out, and watching a jobless fake recovery (oh, the market is up!!!) means saving us from financial collapse.

"You're a gent in the first degree,
and I love it when you talk backwards to me"
Steve Goodman

[Thickasabrick]

4. LOL nt

[ClarkUSA]

5. Two major wars at that, I might add. He'll be remembered as an anti-warmonger President.

I'm glad he didn't listen to Hillary and Gen. McChrystal on the troop surge strategy and troop numbers.

[tekisui]

17. We didn't have the numbers that McChrystal wanted.

We simply do not have 80,000 troops available. We only have 40,000 more that can be deployed.

[ClarkUSA]

27. So you're saying McChrystal and Hillary are both delusional? What's the source for your info?

:shrug:

[tekisui]

32. Here:

If President Obama orders an additional 30,000 to 40,000 troops to Afghanistan, he will be deploying practically every available U.S. Army brigade to war, leaving few units in reserve in case of an unforeseen emergency and further stressing a force that has seen repeated combat deployments since 2002.

According to information compiled by the U.S. Army for The Washington Independent about the deployment status of active-duty and National Guard Army brigades, as of December 2009, there will be about 50,600 active-duty soldiers, serving in 14 combat brigades, and as many as 24,000 National Guard soldiers available for deployment. All other soldiers and National Guardsmen will either be deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan already or ineligible to deploy while they rest from a previous deployment.

http://washingtonindependent.com/68174/army-data-shows-contraints-on-troop-increase-potential

[ClarkUSA]

43. So you're saying McChrystal and Hillary are both delusional AND incompetent, right?

:shrug:

[tekisui]

57. I am saying what McChrystal asked for was not possible

without changing laws. He made the request based on what he calculated using his counter-insurgency plan, not based on what is available. Did you read the article? It was quite good.

[ClarkUSA]

111. Actually, according to Lawrence Korb, what Hillary and McChrystal asked for was "not realistic".

Your news source makes it apparent that Hillary should stick to photo-ops while Gen. McChrystal
should be used up until he retires voluntarily. I'm glad Hillary never became POTUS if what you
claim is correct.

[firedupdem]

19. +1!

You said it! This endless war shit is over! I talked to a military friend who couldn't say much, but basically told me you can't just get out right now. I take his word for it and appreciate a time table for ending this mess.

[azmouse]

6. Thank God this man is President.

No, he's not perfect, not a messiah.

But I truely believe he's doing the best job that could be done with the crap boosh left behind.

[Beetwasher]

8. Two Fucked Up Badly Managed Wars At That

And saved the country from a depression.

[saracat]

9. Really? And you predicate this factoid on what?Your gut? MG, they

just announced troop escalation and this is posted? So apparently you think a "surge" works? God help all those soldiers who shouldn't have to die. I remember Vietnam and the russians in Afghanistan.Apparently others can't learn from history.

[MNDemNY]

15. You've heard the tune...

"...cause Obama tells me so !........"

[GCP]

102. +1000

:thumbsup:

[NoSheep]

115. You can read it the way you want but some of us see it as a way to end it.

[firedupdem]

10. Rec'd... n/t

[LakeSamish706]

11. Sorry, but how do you figure he will have ended two wars? If the Russians left...

Afghanistan with their tail between their legs (with plenty of life loss I might add) then how the hell is President Obama going to end this war?

[Windy]

22. I guess will see won't we. You may want to at least listen to the man

Say what you want about him, but he is brilliant and comes from a background that exposed him to the world and different cultures and the strife and misery that occurs in repressed nations where violence is acceptable.

[FrenchieCat]

You'll have to wait for Obama to tell you that tonight; the how.

I know it's hard to wait a few more hours, after 8 years of status quo on this particular war,
with nary a post about any of the current "Concern" here at DU.

Hell, even Code Pink has mixed feelings about Afghanistan.
Even Kucinich voted to give Bush Authoriziation on this.

As far as the Russian, why is what they do what we do?
Are they supposed to be smarter
than barack Obama or something?
Why would you want to believe that?

[LakeSamish706]

29. The Russians had one war to contend with and much more significant number of boots...

on the ground there. They couldn't win, so what makes you think that an over stressed US Military can prevail?

[Beetwasher]

35. The Russians Wanted To Annex Afg.

The US has no such intentions.

[IndianaGreen]

67. No, they didn't! They were asked by the Marxist government for assistance

against the same religious fanatics that today are killing our troops.

[Beetwasher]

71. LOL Uh Huh

Sure. Tell it to Eastern Euroupe.

[IndianaGreen]

85. I suggest you do some reading about the history of Afghanistan

[Beetwasher]

89. Please point me to the history that details those Afg. Invaders

not intent on conquering and annexing. Beuler?

[tekisui]

12. I am less optimistic about that.

The date to be set is a possibly start of a withdrawal. The "pace" and the "end" will not be defined at all and will depend on the conditions on the ground.

I think the troops starting to come out by summer of 2012 is an absolute best case scenario, an far from certain.

[FrenchieCat]

26. Key word = To Date.

Time will tell.

I will listen to this President tonight knowing that we are now on the path to ending this war...
which were weren't on such a path before.

[brentspeak]

14. I think your Obama kool-aide has been laced with LSD

and maybe some cat pi$$, too.

[ProSense]

25. I think your bitterness and rudeness is eating away your sanity.

You don't want the war to end, you want a crutch for your bitterness.

[NoSheep]

116. I have to agree with you.

[firedupdem]

28. And that "hate marinade" you soak in daily must taste delicious. n/t

[FailingParachute]

127. Perhaps some of the brown acid left over from Woodstock?

That could explain some of it. :)

[eleny]

16. I surely hope so regardless of my profound doubt

Bush & Cheney dug us pretty deep. But here's to hoping he can pull it off and save the country.

[IndianaGreen]

18. More 'Light at the End of the Tunnel' nonsense

We have been down this path before.

[polichick]

53. Must be a blinding light. nt

[IndianaGreen]

55. It is an incoming train!

[FrenchieCat]

64. It's the Obama train, and it will knock you out on its way to

accomplishing most of what Obama said he would do.

Sucks to be virtually on the same side as the teabaggers, doesn't it?
I'd be quite frustrated if I were you, which would answer why
you are posting a negative thread every 2 minutes.
Oh well, glad I'm feeling quite serene waiting for our President
to finally address us on this, after 8 years of nobody giving a shit about this war.
But yeah...I know, your closed mind is already made up.

[IndianaGreen]

72. Obama will bankrupt our country and get a lot of people killed for nothing

$1 million dollars a year per soldier in Afghanistan, and countless dead (civilian and military), not to mention untold long-term suffering on war veterans and their families.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lamp_shade]

20. But... but... but... Koochie would have ended them 10 months ago.

Good post, Frenchie. I needed that.

[vaberella]

31. See...see...it's posts like this that doesn't let me take things seriously.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[bigjohn16]

23. But you agree that he's ended neither so far and is about to escalate one? nt

[phleshdef]

30. Iraq pullout is in progress, for all intents and purposes, its over.

[bigjohn16]

34. Soldiers are still dying in Iraq. When that stops it's over. nt

[vaberella]

36. There's a good number of troops there---due to Bush.

I agree with you that when they're all out we're done. However, the move is coming....I mean it took 9 years to fill that country with so many soldiers---it might take a few months to get them out. Wouldn't that be plausible? Realistic and logical?

[bigjohn16]

41. Of course it'll take time. To say "for all intents and purposes, its over" is a cruel statement. nt

[vaberella]

48. How is it cruel?

It's over because we are not there for war or to do something like topple a ruler that has nothing to do with our fight. Instead, we're trying to get our troops out and getting rid of our camps and moving things over to the people who should be in charge. And during this time we still have people committing acts of violence which of course affects our troops and in some cases mortally wounds them. Or they die accidentally because of faulty/old machines. That being said...deaths will occur but we are getting out.

[bigjohn16]

51. People are still dying it's in no way over. That's why it's cruel. nt

[FrenchieCat]

94. People's been dying.

Why would you prefer a status quo war without end to continue?

[bigjohn16]

98. Where did I say I wanted a status quo war without end?

Take your time.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

39. No, I don't agree with your assessment at all!

You would have to agree that we are on schedule in Iraq with drawing down,
and we will, after tonight, know the strategy and the end game coming up in Afghanistan.

Looking at the way the wind is blowing,
those blowing their wad now,
Won't have anything left when the history book
show them as a footnote of who was wrong at the time.

We are not talking 30 years,
we are talking in a very few years....
about current conflicts nearly a decade old.

You can be jealous and vindictive if you want to,
but that won't stop what will come to pass.

Sorry.

[bigjohn16]

46. In Afghanistan the history is not on the Presidents side. Sorry.

I'm glad that he's started to draw down the troop level in Iraq.

[FrenchieCat]

58. History is meant to be broken.

He's done it once, and he'll do it again.

[MNDemNY]

59. slurp!!

[bigjohn16]

60. History is meant to be broken?

You can't break history you can learn from it or you can repeat it and that's the path President Obama chose.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. Do you make all your judgements based on failures of Victorian England?

[bigjohn16]

62. No. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

63. Then why make this one?

Frankly, I find all this comparison of the current conflict in Afghanistan to Vietnam, 19th century imperial Britain, or even the Soviet invasion to be rather stupid.

[bigjohn16]

65. Then you're choosing to ignore history and possibly repeat it. That's your choice.

You could always look at Iraq for an example modern US nation building.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. You mean the country that we're pulling out of?

The horror. The horror.

[bigjohn16]

76. The country that cost us 4367 US Service members and counting. nt

[FrenchieCat]

70. You can break the cycle that History is to represent........

History until 2008 stated that all American President were White guys. That would mean anyone judging from history would have highly doubted that we would elect a Black guy, but we did. We broke history....cause its meant to be broken with what some call progress.

We will get out of both wars, and this first Black president will be the one to get it done.

Period.

[Peacetrain]

24. He is going to do it..

[vaberella]

33. I couldn't agree more with you Peacetrain.

And if he does---so many here will be he still hasn't explained Rezko and ditched Rev. Wright and his toothpase is Kissmyface and not Colgate---what an elitist... :eyes:

[avaistheone1]

37. Two wars have not ended. In fact both have escalated.

Obama is replacing troops in Iraq with private contractors. There has been a net increase in Iraq of US presence. Pretty sneaky, eh?

You are deluded as customary.

[FrenchieCat]

44. So now, you just making shit up, and stringing old information with new .

to come up with a brew you prefer.

Why is you being right more important than the truth?
Why would you skew the change that is happening,
and try to make it appear that Obama is of the same cloth as Bush?
What's in it for you? What satisfaction do you derive in
attempting to sway others that you, a stranger without a real name have the inside scoop,
while our President is deceiving us?
You will be proven wrong, and then I suppose you'll simply move the goalpost.

[avaistheone1]

68. Omg

You are a stranger without a real name who likes to accuse and persuade others, who are you to accuse me of the same?

I think you are the one who is so in love with Obama that you can not see the truth or be principled in how you evaluate him.
I know I am not the first to share this with you. I have seen multiple posts about it, but choose not to join in and gang up on you. I am sure you will agree that you do not deserve that treatment. Although you have admitted that you believe that othera see you as Obama's main cheerleader. I have no problem with you playing that role. My opinion is that it is you that can not see reality about him as you are extremely biased in his favor. I don't normally see Obama as all bad. I voted for the man.
Yes, he has really pissed me of about other moves he has and has not made. I don't if know this Afghanistan escalation may be the deal killer for me. My anger is blurring everything at the moment.

Yes I do see Obama very much of the same cloth as Bush. Not in all ways, but in many. Everyday sadly I see more of the resemblance.
No,it is not a happy realization. It a dark realization that sickens me and that frightens me about the future of this country for my family, my friends and my community.

We will see who will be proven wrong. I would like to proven wrong. I think Obama has all the capability, but I think he blowing things in a major way with this escalation and I am outraged by it. It is not personal about you, him, or anyone of this board but I more than mad as hell.

[ipaint]

93. Armed contractors are increasing.

Scahill: Well, I think what we're seeing, under President Barack Obama, is sort of old wine in a new bottle. Obama is sending one message to the world, but the reality on the ground, particularly when it comes to private military contractors, is that the status quo remains from the Bush era. Right now there are 250 thousand contractors fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's about 50 percent of the total US fighting force. Which is very similar to what it was under Bush. In Iraq, President Obama has 130 thousand contractors. And we just saw a 23 percent increase in the number of armed contractors in Iraq. In Afghanistan there's been a 29 percent increase in armed contractors. So the radical privatization of war continues unabated under Barack Obama.

Having said that, when Barack Obama was in the Senate he was one of the only people that was willing to take up this issue. And he put forward what became the leading legislation on the part of the Democrats to reform the contracting industry. And I give him credit for doing that. Because he saw this as an important issue before a lot of other political figures. And spoke up at a time when a lot of people were deafeningly silent on this issue. I've been critical of Obama's position on this because I think that he accepts what I think is a fundamental lie. That we should have a system where corporations are allowed to benefit off of warfare. And President Obama has carried on a policy where he has tried to implement greater accountability structures. We now know, in a much clearer way than we did under Bush, how many contractors we have on the battlefield. He's attempted to implement some form of rules governing contractors. And it has suggested that there should be greater accountability when they do commit crimes.

All of these things are a step in the right direction. But, ultimately, I think that we have to look to what Jan Schakowsky, the congresswoman from Illinois, says. We can no longer allow these individuals to perform what are inherently governmental functions. And that includes carrying a weapon on U.S. battlefields. And that's certainly not where President Obama is right now.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/06052009/transcript1.html



As far as leaving the middle east...never.



IRAQ: The Pentagon Garrisons the Gulf: As Washington Talks Iraq Withdrawal, the Pentagon Builds Up Bases in the Region
Garrisoning the Gulf

Even as it lurches toward a quasi-withdrawal from Iraq, the U.S. military has been hunkering down and hardening its presence elsewhere in the Middle East with little fanfare or press coverage. There has been almost no discussion in this country of a host of possible repercussions that might come from this, ranging from local opposition to the U.S. military's presence to the arming of undemocratic and repressive regimes in the region. With the sole exception of Iran, the U.S. military has fully garrisoned the nations of the Persian Gulf with air bases, naval bases, desert posts, training centers, and a whole host of other facilities, while also building up the military capacity of nearby Jordan.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=15479

[noamnety]

40. I think the only other is Lyndon B. Johnson. (nt)

[FrenchieCat]

45. Can you go into detail?

Otherwise, you just sound desperate.

[noamnety]

49. No problem. Details: Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. (nt)

[ZombieHorde]

42. I really hope you are correct FrenchieCat. nt

[ShortnFiery]

47. In your dreams!

:eyes:

[FrenchieCat]

52. I don't dream about such things......

I live in the real world.

The ones who dream are those who believe that because Bush pimped what happened on 9/11
it's like it never happened.

It happened.

in the real world,
Authorization was given to go into Afghanistan,
and we have been there ever since without a strategy,
or an end game. Bush said the War on Terror would last forever.
Obama's changed that, and those are the facts.

Twist them if you will, but you can only do so for so long....
cause then, you'll have to move on to scream about some other
earth shattering issue that only becomes important when Obama decides to fix it...
but when its in status quo mode, nobody really gives a shit.

[ShortnFiery]

86. It Won't. Happen. eom

[JimWis]

54. K&R Frenchie.

[butterfly77]

66. K&R..

[Bluenorthwest]

69. Gee wiz!

Maybe he should start another one, just so he can end three wars!

You ask 'is this a first'. You hang the Mission Accomplished banner even before the troops deploy, and that is an new first.

[FrenchieCat]

77. How stupid are you gonna try to sound,

to make a point that is no point?

You need to do better if you want to impress the other kool kids.
They need Intellectual brilliance at its best,
so then can bask in their ideological sun,
and you ain't quite getting there.

[Bluenorthwest]

84. the personal attack is noted

The fact is it is heartless to declare the victory is done. "kool" is not at all what war is about. This is a cruel OP. He does not need this.

[harkadog]

74. How much money are you willing to put up on this?

[harun]

75. They are two occupations, and neither of them will be over by the end of his second term.

[FrenchieCat]

80. I disagree, and so does your sig. Time to change it, I think.......

for your own safety, here at Du. :)

[harun]

81. You're probably right.

[Hansel]

91. They will both be over. Count on it. nt

[zulchzulu]

78. I sure hope so

One thing people seem to forget is that President Obama inherited one hell of a mess from policies that go back to at least the Reagan Administration. Whether it was free trade and deregulation or inept war policies in the Middle East, Obama has tried to steer the Ship back from Oblivion.

I trust his judgement and know he has the limited powers of a President and not the magic wand of some Utopian Monarch.

That said, we all need to be vigilant and continue with the same energy that we had when we helped elect Obama. No matter what Obama does, the Republicans and Utopian Purists on the Left will try to shatter the promise.

[SacredCow]

82. ...

[and-justice-for-all]

88. I hope your right..nt

[HughMoran]

90. Let's hope so

I hope so.

[Odin2005]

92. I see you make heads explode, Frenchie!

:rofl:

[FrenchieCat]

95. I don't win popularity contests round here.....

that's for sure!

[msallied]

97. You keep fighting the good fight. :)

[mcablue]

96. Obama didn't say when the war will end. He simply said when they will BEGIN to withdraw

Therefore, your title is without evidence. We were not told how many troops would be gone by the time Obama's term is finished. He said withdrawal would depend on "conditions on the ground."

[uponit7771]

99. KNR!!

[mdmc]

100. What great victories!

Perhaps we should invade Iran and North Korea too! Then President H.R.Clinton can "end" those wars!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

106. That'd be a smart, snarky statement and all, if it were true that Obama started either war. (nt)

[mdmc]

108. I admit that Obama is playing the shitty hand he has been dealt

and that there is no way for Obama to end either of these wars. He just does not have the power.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

109. Honestly, you can say that for almost everything he has to deal with.

I wish we'd be more mindful of that (and by "we" I mean Americans in general, not just DUers.)

[mdmc]

110. We are a people of easy answers my friend

I really have no doubt that Obama will be re-elected in 2012. No doubt that Obama will be better then whatever the GOP sends our way.

But we really need to be the change we want to see in the world. Obama said so. I agree.

Peace and low stress my friend. Hang in there and keep up the good fight.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

112. You too.

You're absolutely right in everything you said. And yet I lose faith in modern democracy as each day passes, unfortunately. I think our changes need to be systemic - changing politicians and attitudes at this point may just be changing the curtains.

[mdmc]

117. It helps to get on BERNIE SANDERS email list

It is like HOPE in my inbox
:~)

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

118. I have come to admire Sanders.

He's a true liberal/progressive (whichever term we're using today), and yet he understands the value of getting things done over grandstanding. Really, the guy should be referred to as St. Bernie of DU from henceforth.

[mdmc]

121. Thanks for the reply

I don't think you/I have discussed much here on DU (although we have both been here for a while)..
Peace and low stress, and thanks for the posts..

[Umbral]

103. And it only took him 4 years to do it! Wayto GoBamma! nt

[RetroLounge]

104. Ha

:rofl:

RL

[fugop]

105. K&R nt

[R. P. McMurphy]

107. k & r n/t

[arcadian]

113. You're not even a very good propagandist.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

119. Wow. You really have a hard-on for Obama, don't you?

:freak:

[Dr Robert]

120. and when he does that, the Haters will still cry that it wasn't fast enough

because, at root, their derision for Obama has little to do with his policies

[FailingParachute]

122. You just do this for kicks, don't you? n/t

[ecstatic]

124. If telling the truth gives her kicks, more power to her

If living in doom and gloom negativity 24-7 gives you kicks, have at it!

[FailingParachute]

125. Truth is subjective

Needless death is not.

I am not quite sure where mindless cheerleading falls.

[catgirl]

123. Good way of putting it FrenchieCat

Why others don't see this is unfortunate. The people we are going after caused 9/11 and the Taliban has helped to hide them.
On a side note- the Taliban needs to be stopped. If the naysayers disagree, then they haven't done their research.

[WeDidIt]

128. See, this is my biggest beef with Obama right now

Had he made the troop levels at least 50,000, he probably could have had all the troops out by the end of August, 2011.

With only 30,000, you'll see all the troops gone from Afghanistan by September of 2012..

Politically smart, but it does put more stress on the troops.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

129. Dunno

but Bush started two wars and didn't finish up either one of them within his TWO terms.

Obama is SUCH a warmonger- just like Bush!!!!

:sarcasm:

[totodeinhere]

130. And how many more of our soldiers will have been killed by then?

Even if he really does start a pullout in 2011, by then thousands more will be dead. That outcome is unacceptable. He needs to start pulling out now. How can you possibly support keeping our troops over there in harm's way until 2011?